07:55:12 RRSAgent has joined #sdsvoc 07:55:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-irc 07:56:46 RRSAgent, make logs public 07:57:42 meeting: Smart Descriptions & Smarter Vocabularies (SDSVoc) Day 2 07:57:56 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/agenda#thu 07:57:59 chair: phila 08:01:35 tessel has joined #sdsvoc 08:05:57 Damires has joined #sdsvoc 08:06:12 present+ Damires 08:07:43 topic: negotiation by profile 08:08:53 ruben: necessity of content negotiation 08:08:57 scribe: Tessel 08:09:01 scribeNick: tessel 08:09:04 riccardoAlbertoni has joined #sdsvoc 08:09:31 AndreaPerego has joined #sdsvoc 08:09:31 [slides] 08:09:37 oystein has joined #sdsvoc 08:09:52 present+ AndreaPerego 08:10:12 PWinstanley has joined #sdsvoc 08:10:15 bgrova has joined #sdsvoc 08:10:23 present+ PWinstanley 08:10:27 DaveBr has joined #sdsvoc 08:10:35 BartvanLeeuwen has joined #sdsvoc 08:10:44 present+ BartvanLeeuwen 08:11:29 zakim, who is scribing? 08:11:34 danbri has joined #sdsvoc 08:12:06 [slides self-explaining] 08:14:34 pascale has joined #sdsvoc 08:23:34 Ivan: agree BUT: practicalities 08:23:49 content neg on server side: pain 08:24:34 ... partially technical, partially lobbying 08:24:53 Ruben: two mechanisms side to side possible 08:25:01 ... rethink this as a basis 08:25:14 Eric: roll out without profiles 08:25:24 ... later lobbying 08:25:48 Ivan: suboptimal other solution, deliver as any other resource 08:25:58 ... we need fall back or guidelines 08:26:39 ... http guideline, you need guidelines 08:27:07 Attendee: one resource, problem is providing link 08:27:13 jrvosse has joined #sdsvoc 08:27:18 ... maybe querystring with format params 08:27:34 Ruben: appl. specific url will be used 08:27:39 ... not interoperable 08:27:55 ... apl. spec. url is risky 08:28:22 Jacco: i disagree, successful negotiation room for neg. 08:28:34 ... client/server: switching 08:29:08 ruben: already discussion, so there is a possibility 08:29:42 Attendee: not just tech issue, groups of communities interested in linked data or not, difficult to reach agreement 08:29:54 s/Jacco: i disagree/Jacco: I disagree :-)/ 08:30:02 ... simple tech solution to use this as a basis 08:30:20 newton has joined #sdsvoc 08:30:46 Attendee: big fan content neg., in this case using linkheaders where server provides a list of alternates 08:31:00 ... imagine profiles here 08:31:11 .. client picks format of choice 08:31:24 .. diff. link, but link canonincal 08:31:49 Ruben: other form of negotiation 08:32:12 Ruben: diff. negotiations 08:32:36 RRSAgent, draft minutes 08:32:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-minutes.html phila 08:32:42 LarsG: RFC2296 1998 08:32:55 ...content neg. on MIME types 08:33:02 ... there are uses for it 08:33:21 ... precedent for future, this is what it should look like 08:33:43 ivan has joined #sdsvoc 08:33:49 Linda has joined #sdsvoc 08:33:56 AxelPolleres has joined #sdsvoc 08:34:01 Eugene: why do we have to negotiate? why segregate? why not send instance with full properties 08:34:07 present+ ivan 08:34:13 present+ newton 08:34:19 Ruben: complex is more problematic 08:34:25 Present+ Linda 08:34:57 Attendee: content neg. not only neg. fall back options needed 08:34:59 present+ jrvosse 08:35:20 Ivan: special header equires certain rights 08:35:58 danbri: can we distinguish more carefully on the profiles? look carefully why accept content neg. 08:36:09 ... there are other options, what has gone wrong? 08:36:26 Ruben: publication for ages, needed there 08:36:38 danbri: accept header is huge failure, not used 08:36:52 danbri: bit overstated, what about mobile? 08:37:05 ruben: timescale, publishing for ages, diff timescale 08:37:12 my question/remark: content negotiation is cool, but hard to enforce, we need precedence/best practices to enable some methods for all possible publishers, e.g. CVSWEB defined 4 possible ways (in an order of precedence) to advertice CSV metadata: https://www.w3.org/TR/2015/REC-tabular-data-model-20151217/#locating-metadata 08:37:38 next speaker: LarsG 08:38:04 LarsG: violent disagreement here 08:38:55 [slides] 08:39:14 LarsG: i think we do need content negotiation 08:40:43 LarsG: we need a way for the client to choose resource 08:41:06 LarsG: five options [slides] 08:43:40 LarsG: getting the profile helps the client know what is there 08:47:21 Attendee: MIME cannot be touched, no attributes can be added 08:47:45 ... it would be an enormous uphill battle 08:48:17 LarsG: also an n-squared problem, explosion of accept header 08:49:13 LarsG: RFC 6906, but we cannot state preferences with q-value 08:49:44 ... q-value between 1-0, 1: really want 08:50:36 ... xml doc with namespaces, each ns should conform to xml schema 08:50:40 Jim has joined #sdsvoc 08:52:05 herbert: not seen link header in request 08:52:46 LarsG: need to register profile headers 08:55:06 ... none of the options is perfect 08:55:53 panel: topic content negotiation 08:57:38 antoine: before we start, maybe try recap value of solution, diff. flavors of data, need access to that 08:57:56 ... we need ways to distinguish between flavors 08:58:00 Topic: Content Negotiation Panel 08:58:05 newton has joined #sdsvoc 08:58:24 RRSAgent, draft minutes 08:58:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-minutes.html jrvosse 08:58:36 eric: measure against infrastructure where we do have a lot of control, where content neg. does work 08:58:47 ... critical service, so people will work hard 08:59:02 herbert: agree with antoine, important problem 08:59:31 ... use diff. xml schema, diff. formats, now we have the ingredients for coming with a solution 08:59:49 .. simplicity of speccing it, will you find listening ear? 09:00:02 ... that's why i said harshly don't touch mime 09:00:16 ... adoption, certain paths might be easier 09:00:47 ivan: i don't agree with eric. we need a solution that works for simple people, who are not in a data warehouse 09:01:03 ... we need something that works, fall back standardized from ideal solution 09:01:16 ... we try to push problem server side 09:01:25 .. client only expresses it 09:01:39 ... other possibility: server gives options, clients choose 09:01:52 +1 to have nice solutions spec’d PLUS best practices for fallbacks solutions to allow “best effort” workarounds for those publishers without control of the servers. 09:02:05 ... we have to be able to provide that, get back from dumb simple server that says what is has 09:02:26 ... allow people tp publish data without touching server 09:02:44 herbert: does not require a manifest 09:02:59 ivan: manifest generally 09:03:14 ruben: it is possible to do both, risk fallback 09:03:19 ... can become complicated 09:03:39 ... fallback will be the easy solution 09:04:07 ... i think it's important to invest in tooling, rather than fallbacks 09:04:53 phila: w3c a. others cannot say this is what you should do, does not work 09:05:10 ... it has to work, simple option, people will take that 09:05:39 ... if it does come down to new header, hard task 09:06:35 erci: do not raise bar for people who publish trivially, people who publish critical infrastructure, and people who try to predict future, three diff use cases 09:07:34 LarsG: fallback, ignore the acceptheader, if you don't have diff profiles. where can i ignore things? 09:08:09 antoine: every fallback creates problems choosing between diff. options 09:08:47 ... one of the problems flavors many resources at the same time. extract links interested in. 09:09:35 ... what will the profile be? we are looking at the definition, you cannot sya everything, if we work on speccing that stuff, need to be more precise 09:09:56 herbert: just want to add one caveat, something we ran into with memento, 09:10:30 ... sppecify what has preference, profile in two media types, server can give only one 09:10:36 newton has joined #sdsvoc 09:11:12 ruben: i guess maybe fallback is not that bad if you measure the consequences, show it is worth the extra investment 09:12:02 ... what types of clients do we envision? what are the use cases? what else do they want to do? 09:12:13 ... not publishing but also clients as consumers 09:12:33 antoine: next to techn. proposal a decision tree. 09:13:30 eric: i think the last slides had preference for new header, phil cannot do it, but it might fly 09:13:34 \herbert: no entire menu, you want one fallback solution 09:13:48 LarsG: you can combine diff. solutions 09:14:06 herbert: depend on link headers, not all 09:14:16 ... under negotiation more possible 09:14:42 herbert: just like to add, there is way to avoid new header, but it takes you a long way. 09:14:53 ... not ideal, but takes you there 09:15:42 phila: track process, RFC not w3c, but there is room for cooperation 09:15:54 ... clearly this needs fixing, there is a community 09:16:00 scribe: AndreaPerego 09:16:02 This is officially a permathread now, … we crossed the 20 year mark (!!) earlier this year - see Warwick Framework DC discussions, http://www.dlib.org/dlib/july96/lagoze/07lagoze.html 09:16:11 scribeNick: AndreaPerego 09:16:16 Topic: Lightning Talks 09:17:38 Carlo Meghini: [introducing the session] 09:18:07 Matthias Palmér: "Configuring the EntryScape platform to effectively support Application Profiles" 09:18:47 Topic: Configuring the EntryScape platform to effectively support Application Profiles 09:18:53 Matthias Palmér: [slides self-explicatory] 09:18:53 RRSAgent, draft minutes 09:18:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-minutes.html phila 09:19:08 Linda has joined #sdsvoc 09:26:38 Topic: Duplicate Evaluation 09:28:09 Simon Dutkowski: [slides self-explicatory] 09:28:31 s/Duplicate Evaluation/Duplicate Evaluation in the European Data Portal/ 09:30:19 RRSAgent, draft minutes 09:30:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-minutes.html AndreaPerego 09:31:32 paulvg has joined #sdsvoc 09:33:31 present+ LarsG 09:35:23 s/Matthias Palmér: "Configuring the EntryScape platform to effectively support Application Profiles"// 09:36:17 Linda has joined #sdsvoc 09:37:14 nandana has joined #sdsvoc 09:40:02 newton has joined #sdsvoc 09:40:13 Keith Jeffery: The problem you're describing is basically about versioning. Also, I disagree that people would like to have only 1 version - having more than one can be relevant for different use cases. 09:41:01 Simon Dutkowski: The issue is also to detect whether it's a different version or a duplicate. 09:41:21 Topic: Challenges of mapping current CKAN metadata to DCAT 09:42:53 Sebastian Neumaier: [slides self-explanatory] 09:43:10 Sebastian Neumaier: We define our quality metrics on top of DCAT 09:48:54 newton has joined #sdsvoc 09:50:47 phila: Would you like W3C to include CKAN mappings, possibly in an informative section? 09:51:22 Sebastian Neumaier: Well, this is not a problem of the DCAT specification, but of its implementation. 09:52:19 Carlo Meghini: So, in your experience, why not all with CKAN portals are not supporting DCAT 09:52:45 Sebastian Neumaier: Simply because they are not using the relevant CKAN extension 09:54:00 attendee: About the distribution issue you mentioned, shouldn't this rather modelled as a dataset? 09:54:09 newton has joined #sdsvoc 09:54:46 Linda has joined #sdsvoc 09:54:46 Sebastian Neumaier: CKAN does not support the notion of sub/super dataset, so this would make implementation complicate. 09:55:20 s/rather modelled as a dataset?/rather modelled as a sub/super dataset?/ 09:55:40 Topic: Interoperability between metadata standards: a reference implementation for metadata catalogues 09:57:30 Geraldine Nolf: [slides self-explanatory] 09:57:50 RRSAgent, draft minutes 09:57:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-minutes.html AndreaPerego 09:59:04 s/rather modelled as a dataset?/rather modelled as a sub or super dataset?/ 10:00:22 jrvosse has joined #sdsvoc 10:00:25 s/s\/rather modelled as a dataset?\/rather modelled as a sub\/super dataset?\/// 10:00:29 RRSAgent, draft minutes 10:00:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-minutes.html AndreaPerego 10:03:24 AxelPolleres has joined #sdsvoc 10:08:40 Keith Jeffery: We are doing the same task in CERIF - bridging metadata standards. In Flanders there's an organisation [missed name] using CERIF, it may be worth contacting them. 10:10:19 FRIS is the missed name 10:11:08 s/[missed name]/FRIS/ 10:11:29 phila: About contribution from standard bodies, W3C and OGC are collaborating on this. The problem is that it's the community that needs to be active on this, and adopt the developed solutions. 10:11:37 Caroline has joined #sdsvoc 10:11:46 ... Another point is: how we should public mappings? 10:12:00 Present+ Caroline 10:13:26 Geraldine Nolf: Standard bodies should basically provide best practices on the use of different competing standards. 10:17:29 paulvg has joined #sdsvoc 10:17:52 newton has joined #sdsvoc 10:31:15 AxelPolleres has joined #sdsvoc 10:31:35 ppeyrol__ has joined #sdsvoc 10:36:47 RRSAgent, draft minutes 10:36:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-minutes.html AndreaPerego 10:47:32 DaveBr has left #sdsvoc 10:47:38 LarsG has joined #sdsvoc 10:47:48 Linda has joined #sdsvoc 10:47:49 danbri has joined #sdsvoc 10:48:10 newton has joined #sdsvoc 10:48:13 scribe: Dan Brickley 10:48:17 scribenick: danbri 10:48:32 nandana has joined #SDSVoc 10:48:34 Ronald Siebes (chairing) intro 10:48:51 present+ nandana 10:48:57 ronald: previous session, a maze of standards, … to navigate and make best of opportunities you need tools 10:49:09 Christian Mader on version control systems 10:49:20 jrvosse has joined #sdsvoc 10:49:34 christian: overview on a product/tool we are developing at Fraunhofer, based on phd work from Lavdim Halilaj 10:49:59 riccardoAlbertoni has joined #sdsvoc 10:50:11 … movation: in software development tools for versioning are well established, e.g. recently large impact of Github, with 35m repos, 40m+ users. 10:50:20 Topic: Tooling 10:50:32 … this is in software dev world. On the other hand, we have the need for developing/creating various vocabs e.g. schema.org, FOAF et al. 10:50:39 paulvg has joined #sdsvoc 10:50:39 Caroline has joined #sdsvoc 10:50:49 … these need some tooling in the background, for developing them in a collaborative way, as they go beyond what a single person can do 10:51:50 PWinstanley has joined #sdsvoc 10:51:59 christian: in our research we are looking at distributed vocabulary development. Requirements: collaboration support, governance mechanisms with roles and permissions, we need communication methods, and to integrate quality assurance into the dev process and technical validation, testing, as in software development to verify vocab dev w/ competency questions. 10:52:03 present+ PWinstanley 10:52:10 tessel has joined #sdsvoc 10:52:15 … UX is very important, users need a good visualisation of what they're developing. 10:52:30 Present+ Caroline 10:52:46 … we also have tools that support them on the vocab side. All these need integrating into a vocab dev environment. We came up with a tool called VoCol, opensourced on Github. 10:53:10 … it should give user support in the modeling task. A user creates a vocabulary, creating also instance data into a SPARQL endpoint 10:53:27 … database in b/g for testing purposes. Round-trip development supported by tool. 10:53:43 … we can cover whole lifecycle - authoring, validation, issue traking, …[etc - see slide] 10:54:09 … for all this we do not invent new systems, but look at version control systems that are currently available, notably git/github 10:54:23 … people use their own preferred editors 10:54:45 … people use those but submit content into version control / hosting 10:55:11 … with VoCol we extend these mechanisms by building w/ a VoCol server 10:55:45 … which in addition to existing mechanisms, when a vocol server is attached/configured, after changes are committed to repo, additional things happen - 10:55:49 DaveBr has joined #sdsvoc 10:55:57 … such as syntax validation, giving timely feedback on problems 10:56:15 … a monitoring service in b/g can generate documentation, visualizations of ontology, build up environment for querying the data etc. 10:56:36 … users don't need to care about these things they just work, on top of the basic usual environment 10:56:47 christian: [shows screenshot of one-time configuration page] 10:57:09 s/b\/g/background/ 10:57:37 christian: we also provide a standard turtle-based editor 10:57:49 … directly in VoCol server on a Web page 10:57:56 … generates documentation based on existing tools 10:58:12 … runs documentation generator on each commit 10:58:19 rrsagent, pointer 10:58:19 See http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-irc#T10-58-19 10:58:36 christian: also visualization of ontologies generated 10:59:08 … integrated capability of querying the ontology and/or verifying instance data 10:59:21 … also can run various analytics on data you created 10:59:43 … e.g. histograms of types 11:00:09 Linda has joined #sdsvoc 11:00:57 … opensource licensed. Has been deployed in industrial settings, e.g. manufacturing company, 10+ people (knowledge engineers + domain experts) 11:01:01 … also R2RML support 11:01:53 christian: to conclude, VoCol builds upon (rather than replaces) existing version control systems, in a user friendly way. Can integrate several services. Extensible and loosely coupled architecture. 11:02:04 … based around git but could be applied to other protocols 11:02:12 [end] 11:02:15 Questions: 11:02:54 IvanHerman: Trying to understand exact setup, I can store/use my usual env on github, … set this up as we might e.g. use Travis? 11:02:58 christian: yes 11:03:17 IvanHerman: … so the service would generate the outputs e.g. into github via ghpages? 11:03:34 christian: currently visualizations etc are served as web pages but not currently commited into a repo 11:04:46 BartvanLeeuwen has joined #sdsvoc 11:05:33 someone-from-vocol-team: there are a number of services directly provided by VoCol, and some services are limited by the nature of github currently 11:05:53 alistair gray: with your diffs, are you just doing github diffs, or at the semantic level, "ontology/logical diffs" 11:06:00 a: semantic diffs too 11:06:51 phil: this is v interesting to us. WOuld it be possible for the documentation to be pushed to e.g. W3C's site? 11:07:18 … one thing that's missing so far from my perfect wishlist is various kinds of usage statistics 11:07:33 … integration with lodstats? 11:07:43 a: yes, we could do this 11:08:00 … we are also working more on test-driven development e.g. metadata for tests and constraints and their relationships 11:08:28 s/someone-from-vocol-team/Lavdim Halilaj/ 11:08:56 Lavdim Halilaj answered the last Qs too 11:09:23 danbri: do you support shexacl etc? 11:09:30 lavdim: not yet but could integrate 11:09:51 s/WOuld/Would/ 11:10:25 Shexacl, a funny name indeed. 11:10:34 Topic: Validata: A tool for testing profile conformance 11:11:12 Alasdair Gray: presenting Validata, result of an undergraduate project, see slides for list of co-authors 11:11:34 context: HCLS Dataset Descriptions 11:12:11 … requirements came from W3C Interest Group, … requirement was that the tool would be published as static content on a W3C Apache http server 11:13:09 alasdair: expected both Web UI and an API, supporting property and data value constraints, different levels of user messages (error, warning, info), and configurable for different application areas (hcls, dcat, open phacts etc). 11:13:31 … you could also change the level of validation e.g. "check this against everything that is mandatory and recommended" 11:13:48 … highly configurable - not hardcoded for HCLS 11:14:39 …. example: A dataset must be declared as of type dctype:Dataset, must have a dcterms:title as a language typed string, must not have dcterms:createdDate 11:14:48 (see slide for shape graph) 11:16:23 if we change our example data to use pav:createdOn instead of dcterms:creationDate it can be ok per the above rule (although there is also a closed world which will complain when encountering unknown terms) 11:16:31 uses ShEx Validation 11:17:10 Linda has joined #sdsvoc 11:17:11 we added requirement levels to Shex shape, to have MUST vs MAY 11:17:25 … to support warnings on missing parts (? missed exact detail) 11:18:01 see https://github.com/HW-SWeL/Validata https://github.com/HW-SWeL/ShEx-validator 11:18:15 live demo at http://hw-swel.github.io/Validata/ 11:18:28 [shows demo] 11:18:54 loads built-in chembl dataset 11:20:14 shows nice feature that errors are linked to line in the input causing the problem, where appropriate 11:20:52 configuration file is a shape expression 11:21:00 it looks quite like turtle 11:22:45 there are still a few bugs and the original creators have now graduated, so encouraging opensource collaboration for further development 11:22:58 open source javascript implementation, can be run via node 11:23:18 we used shape expression 2 years ago, shacl was then in its early days, one option could be to migrate or keep going with shex 11:23:28 [end] 11:23:30 questions? 11:23:59 Ronald: Chembl - does it load the whole thing into your browser? can I express similar constraints in OWL? 11:24:23 alasdair: it is only loading a description of chembl, not the entire chembl dataset 11:25:08 … if you had 1 million versions of chembl or distributions you might have issues but we don't load core data 11:25:12 re OWL, Eric answers 11:25:26 eric: You can't fail minimum cardinality constraint with OWL, it is open world 11:26:07 danbri: in OWL your constraints are constraints about the world, not about the data description of the world 11:26:12 simonstey has joined #sdsvoc 11:26:38 RRSAgent, draft minutes 11:26:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/12/01-sdsvoc-minutes.html phila 11:26:40 mysterious-voice-from-above: with constraint violation, have you considered offering guidance on fixing e.g. standardized recovery methods? 11:26:54 Linda has joined #sdsvoc 11:27:16 alasdair: we split into 2 parts. The validator via API just reports a problem, and then the user of the API, such as our own GUI, has to do something with that. We tried to make useful user error messages. 11:27:51 Ronald: how much is this depending on the UI? Can you make this available e.g. to integrate with VoCol? 11:28:07 alasdair: yes, feasible 11:28:09 ---- 11:29:00 Topic: Willem van Gemert and Eugeniu Costetchi - Towards Executable Application Profiles for European vocabularies 11:29:06 https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/agenda#p23 11:29:39 Willem: At publications office of the EU, we are an inter-institutional body, work for all the EU institutions, and publish for them, also access/re-use and preservation. 11:29:56 … the institutions send us publications and we disseminate them 11:30:27 … services include EUR-Lex, EU bookshop, EU Open Data Portal, Ted, EU whoiswho, CORDIS 11:30:47 … we needed to standardize the metadata we get from these different sources 11:31:11 … often the EU institutions cannot agree amongst themselves, so we - as an inter-institutional body - got involved with standardization efforts 11:31:36 … around 70 authority tables (with dereferencable URIs) 11:31:46 … concept URIs now de-reference :) 11:32:04 … working to improve this further 11:32:14 full paper: https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/SDSVoc16_paper_23 11:32:33 Willem: We also maintain EuroVoc (EU multilingual thesaurus) 11:32:57 … popular work includes alignment mappings to other controlled vocabularies 11:33:15 … using vocbench to maintain eurovoc; received ISA funding for this 11:33:35 Willem: "Application Profiles" that we have developed - 11:33:51 … began towards a common representation rich enough to capture all that we need 11:34:00 … using SKOS but with other standards too 11:34:52 For EU controlled vocabs: SKOS-API-EU (SKOS, DCT, Lemon, LexVo, etc.). For EU Open Data Portal: DCAT-AP-OP (DCAT, ADMNS, DCT etc); for [see slides for rest!] 11:35:17 Eugeniu: I'm helping develop these vocabularies and putting them in practice 11:35:35 … one issue we bumped into was making sure things are published properly as intended, and to spot any errors early. 11:35:52 … context of workflow - the source format of authority tables is XML 11:36:21 .. from this via XSLT, we make ATTO XML, SKOS (RDF/XML), IMMC (XSD), SKOS-AP-EU (RDF/XML) 11:37:00 Eugeniu: Issues. Need for RDF validation, to make sure it meets our profile. Separation between the documentation and our implementation. 11:37:16 … checking of integrity constraints on source data 11:37:52 … also data fingerprinting - what patterns are in the data, what regularities emerge? (kind of backwards validation) 11:38:11 Eugeniu: originally app profiles were like a recipe 11:38:26 (see nice slide) 11:39:06 Eugeniu: different approaches to RDF validation. People have tried [stretching] OWL reasoners, SPARQL, XSD schemas, … rule languages like SPIN, ShEx SHACL, SWRL, RIF, ... 11:39:21 … ShEx as predecessor of SHACL 11:39:41 …we translate the constraints of the app profile into a set of SHACL shapes 11:39:56 … we created a small commandline wrapper, makes things easy to automate in a publications workflow 11:40:25 … also generate HTML documents from from the shape definitions, simiilar to the technique Alasdair described above 11:41:11 e.g. we have for SKOS a set of constraints for anything that claims to be a skos:Concept 11:41:27 … can create arbitrary graph patterns using shacl / sparql constraints 11:41:30 jack has joined #sdsvoc 11:42:54 … our main constraints were property cardinality constraints, domain/range constraints, and "if p then Q" constraints, e.g. if an end date then also need a start date; if C1 replaces C2, then C2 must have a deprecated status 11:43:13 hi 11:44:00 Eugeniu: we also want to look at property/class patterns to analyse what's in the dataset 11:44:39 … e.g. can estimate app profile ingredients for dct:FrequencyClass 11:45:45 e..g this helps highlight other error forms e.g. a typo in namespace 11:45:54 Conclusions (see slide for details) 11:46:09 … we use shacl as a source for our documentation and to validate the data 11:46:30 … helps us discover inconsistencies in the data and/or transformation rules 11:46:51 … we use it for skos-ap-eu but can be applied to any other ap (e.g. dcat-ap, org-ap) 11:47:02 but: is shacl stable enough? what to expect of the future? 11:47:10 — 11:47:36 Qs, direct and then general for all speakers (15 mins for questions) 11:48:09 antoine: checking points re shacl: do I understand well that you have a shacl specification for skos as part of your work? 11:48:24 eugeniu: not for SKOS itself but SKOS and a few other things in our AP 11:48:35 … skos plus eurovoc 11:48:40 need a quick suggestion 11:48:54 Caroline has joined #sdsvoc 11:48:58 see also https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/semantic-web/2005Nov/0000.html 11:49:03 I have to develop a reservation app like the hotel reservation 11:49:17 is django suitable for a reservation app ? 11:49:25 eugeniu: using prev shacl, there was already a file for skos shapes in tool 11:49:39 jack, we're using this channel for live meeting notes 11:50:03 i.e. https://www.w3.org/2016/11/sdsvoc/ 11:50:07 so soory iam here for the first time will log out 11:50:39 eric: domain of shapes … is data that I'm expecting a service to produce or produce (or have a consistent db on my disk) 11:50:46 … relationship w/ ontologies is combinational 11:50:57 … narrow down near infinite number of ways of combining vocabularies 11:51:41 eugeniu: shape definitions look v similar to OWL 11:51:45 jack has left #sdsvoc 11:52:15 scribe's aside: see also https://www.w3.org/TR/schema-arch and https://www.w3.org/2001/06/rdf-xproc/1 for history on this 11:52:30 eugeniu: like different dialects of same language... 11:53:04 ronald: q about the community. is there some kind of w3c-like approach? can people suggest changes in the vocabulary? how can constraints be over-ridden? 11:53:24 eugeniu: the way constraints are generated, we do not complain about new/un-anticipated content 11:53:40 … e.g. we can give minimal definitions for Person or Concept 11:54:24 eric: problem with open shapes, you don't spot typos 11:54:45