IRC log of forms on 2016-11-30

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:46:19 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/30-forms-irc

13:46:21 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:46:21 [Zakim]

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13:46:23 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be

13:46:23 [Zakim]

I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot

13:46:24 [trackbot]

Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference

13:46:24 [trackbot]

Date: 30 November 2016

13:46:41 [Steven]

Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0114

13:46:46 [Steven]

Chair: Steven

13:46:59 [Steven]

Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0114

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14:02:27 [Steven]

It's not letting me in.

14:02:33 [Steven]

ANyone else already in?

14:02:38 [ebruchez]

The Connect to Audio button is garyed out for me

14:02:56 [alain1]

For me too...

14:03:35 [Steven]

damn

14:03:46 [Steven]

Let me try something else

14:03:48 [Steven]

just a moment

14:03:54 [ebruchez]

calling in it says the access code is not coirrect

14:06:36 [Steven]

For me too

14:06:40 [Steven]

liam?

14:08:54 [Steven]

I can't join the meeting until the host joins, but I AM the host...

14:10:10 [ebruchez]

how does WebEx know you are the host?

14:10:35 [Steven]

Usually there is a button to claim the host role

14:10:47 [Steven]

but I'm using the mobile app, and it doesn't have that button

14:10:55 [Steven]

before today I could just phone in

14:12:48 [ebruchez]

I see a Reclaim Host Role menu in the desktop app

14:12:55 [ebruchez]

it requires a Host key

14:13:58 [Steven]

it's 192124

14:14:20 [ebruchez]

ok if I claim that it seems I can join the audio

14:14:46 [Steven]

Great. I'll try diallin in again

14:15:24 [Steven]

Still not valid.

14:15:29 [Steven]

Anyone else in?

14:15:35 [ebruchez]

Phlip

14:15:47 [ebruchez]

Philip is in

14:17:52 [Steven]

Topic: Rewrite

14:17:52 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0054

14:18:49 [Steven]

Steven: Please take a look, and send comments as necessary.

14:18:58 [Steven]

Topic: ACTION-2076: Propose text for what value is used when the

14:18:58 [Steven]

evaluation of function/result@value fails

14:18:58 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Oct/0012.html

14:18:58 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0093.html

14:20:22 [Steven]

Erik: It's simple, because in XPath errors propagate

14:21:28 [Steven]

... I've treated both var and function results.

14:22:08 [Steven]

Steven: So in other words, we don 't produce a value, we just give an error

14:22:11 [Steven]

Erik: Yes

14:22:49 [Steven]

Erik: We're doing the same as XPath basically

14:22:54 [Steven]

Erik: ANother problem

14:23:11 [Steven]

... what happens if the syntax of the function signature is

14:23:11 [Steven]

incorrect.

14:23:17 [Steven]

s/AN/An/

14:26:06 [Steven]

Erik: I am suggesting we do something similar to how we treat missing functions in the @functions attribute on model

14:26:43 [Steven]

Erik: I'll add the error paragraph for @value, and I'll suggest text for the signature

14:26:53 [Steven]

Topic: <message/>

14:26:53 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0106.html

14:27:35 [Steven]

Steven: Are we ok with @value on message?

14:27:46 [Steven]

[general agreement]

14:28:00 [Steven]

Topic: JSON: characters below \u0020

14:28:00 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0112.html

14:28:49 [Steven]

Steven: Which would you prefer?

14:28:54 [Steven]

Erik: Be specific

14:29:19 [Steven]

ACTION: Steven to tighten description of equivalent XML charactors for JSON serialisation

14:29:20 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2092 - Tighten description of equivalent xml charactors for json serialisation [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-07].

14:29:37 [Steven]

Topic: The constraint Property

14:29:37 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0111

14:30:56 [Steven]

Erik: So where would you like to see the error?

14:31:16 [Steven]

... we can't set an alert on a repeat.

14:32:04 [Steven]

... so we set the constraint on the wish element

14:32:17 [Steven]

... so it shows up on the input for the wish

14:32:35 [Steven]

... but it wouldn't show up with minimum number of wishes

14:32:57 [Steven]

... I guess there's a bigger story.

14:33:30 [Steven]

... you could provide a 'dummy' control

14:33:38 [Steven]

Steven: Do we do alert on output?

14:33:41 [Steven]

Erik: WE do!

14:33:46 [Steven]

... let's check the spec

14:34:14 [Steven]

... yes output inludes help hint and alert

14:35:10 [Steven]

ACTION: Steven to update constrain note, and change it to an example.

14:35:10 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2093 - Update constrain note, and change it to an example. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-07].

14:35:19 [Steven]

Topic: Focus on container controls

14:35:19 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0047.html

14:36:38 [Steven]

Erik: Focus can be tricky.

14:36:51 [Steven]

... but I think what you suggest is fine

14:37:12 [Steven]

... there is a recursive aspect

14:38:04 [Steven]

Alain: Looks OK for me.

14:38:16 [Steven]

... I'm not sure what we do now, but it's OK

14:38:34 [Steven]

Topic: xforms-next/previous

14:38:34 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0073.html

14:39:58 [Steven]

Steven: In other words xforms-next would work in a similar way to setfocus

14:40:14 [Steven]

Erik: We don't implement this event

14:41:30 [Steven]

Steven: It would typically be bound to the tab key

14:45:30 [Steven]

Erik: THere's no example in the spec, I don't see the use case.

14:45:49 [Steven]

ACTION: Produce example for xforms-next

14:45:49 [trackbot]

Error finding 'Produce'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.

14:45:56 [Steven]

ACTION: Steven to Produce example for xforms-next

14:45:56 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2094 - Produce example for xforms-next [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-07].

14:47:14 [Steven]

Erik: My problem is not why you need a nav order, just when would you use this event.

14:47:23 [Steven]

Steven: I'll try and produce some use cases

14:47:33 [Steven]

Topic: The xforms-rebuild Event

14:47:33 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0057.html

14:49:29 [Steven]

Steven: I think that "Any child bind elements are recursively processed as described in the

14:49:29 [Steven]

three points of this list."

14:49:29 [Steven]

is redundant

14:49:46 [Steven]

... since the inner bind is already covered by the rules

14:49:54 [ebruchez]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0061.html

14:51:08 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0070.html

14:55:15 [Steven]

Steven: If you think it's fine as it is, then we leave it as is.

14:55:45 [Steven]

Alain: I agree with Erik

14:55:51 [Steven]

Steven: FIne, I was wrong.

14:56:01 [Steven]

Topic: xforms-refresh

14:56:01 [Steven]

https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0067.html

14:57:42 [Steven]

Steven: It seems wasteful. I don;t know why we require this

14:57:48 [Steven]

Erik: We don't do it.

14:57:53 [Steven]

Alain: I don;t know what we do

14:58:10 [Steven]

Steven: How about "events that change MUST be sent, others MAY be sent"

14:58:24 [Steven]

Erik: I think we should be explicit about what may and may not be sent

14:58:41 [Steven]

s/;/'/

14:59:17 [Steven]

... if the control should change state it should be dispatched only in that case,

14:59:33 [Steven]

Alain: I'd agree with that.

14:59:42 [Steven]

Philip: Me too

15:00:03 [Steven]

ACTION: Steven to tighten definition of which events get sent on value changed

15:00:03 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-2095 - Tighten definition of which events get sent on value changed [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-07].

15:00:29 [Steven]

Erik: What happens when the control becomes relevant?

15:00:50 [Steven]

https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0#Relevance

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15:02:55 [Steven]

[ADJOURN]

15:03:05 [Steven]

Present: Alain, Erik, Philip, Steven

15:03:10 [Steven]

rrsagent, make minutes

15:03:10 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/30-forms-minutes.html Steven

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