13:46:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
13:46:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/30-forms-irc
13:46:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:46:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #forms
13:46:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:46:23 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:46:24 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
13:46:24 <trackbot> Date: 30 November 2016
13:46:41 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0114
13:46:46 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:46:59 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0114
13:59:44 <pfennell> pfennell has joined #forms
14:02:27 <Steven> It's not letting me in.
14:02:33 <Steven> ANyone else already in?
14:02:38 <ebruchez> The Connect to Audio button is garyed out for me
14:02:56 <alain1> For me too...
14:03:35 <Steven> damn
14:03:46 <Steven> Let me try something else
14:03:48 <Steven> just a moment
14:03:54 <ebruchez> calling in it says the access code is not coirrect
14:06:36 <Steven> For me too
14:06:40 <Steven> liam?
14:08:54 <Steven> I can't join the meeting until the host joins, but I AM the host...
14:10:10 <ebruchez> how does WebEx know you are the host?
14:10:35 <Steven> Usually there is a button to claim the host role
14:10:47 <Steven> but I'm using the mobile app, and it doesn't have that button
14:10:55 <Steven> before today I could just phone in
14:12:48 <ebruchez> I see a Reclaim Host Role menu in the desktop app
14:12:55 <ebruchez> it requires a Host key
14:13:58 <Steven> it's 192124
14:14:20 <ebruchez> ok if I claim that it seems I can join the audio
14:14:46 <Steven> Great. I'll try diallin in again
14:15:24 <Steven> Still not valid.
14:15:29 <Steven> Anyone else in?
14:15:35 <ebruchez> Phlip
14:15:47 <ebruchez> Philip is in
14:17:52 <Steven> Topic: Rewrite
14:17:52 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0054
14:18:49 <Steven> Steven: Please take a look, and send comments as necessary.
14:18:58 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2076: Propose text for what value is used when the
14:18:58 <Steven> evaluation of function/result@value fails
14:18:58 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Oct/0012.html
14:18:58 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0093.html
14:20:22 <Steven> Erik: It's simple, because in XPath errors propagate
14:21:28 <Steven> ... I've treated both var and function results.
14:22:08 <Steven> Steven: So in other words, we don 't produce a value, we just give an error
14:22:11 <Steven> Erik: Yes
14:22:49 <Steven> Erik: We're doing the same as XPath basically
14:22:54 <Steven> Erik: ANother problem
14:23:11 <Steven> ... what happens if the syntax of the function signature is
14:23:11 <Steven> incorrect.
14:23:17 <Steven> s/AN/An/
14:26:06 <Steven> Erik: I am suggesting we do something similar to how we treat missing functions in the @functions attribute on model
14:26:43 <Steven> Erik: I'll add the error paragraph for @value, and I'll suggest text for the signature
14:26:53 <Steven> Topic: <message/>
14:26:53 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0106.html
14:27:35 <Steven> Steven: Are we ok with @value on message?
14:27:46 <Steven> [general agreement]
14:28:00 <Steven> Topic: JSON: characters below \u0020
14:28:00 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0112.html
14:28:49 <Steven> Steven: Which would you prefer?
14:28:54 <Steven> Erik: Be specific
14:29:19 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to tighten description of equivalent XML charactors for JSON serialisation
14:29:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2092 - Tighten description of equivalent xml charactors for json serialisation [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-07].
14:29:37 <Steven> Topic: The constraint Property
14:29:37 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0111
14:30:56 <Steven> Erik: So where would you like to see the error?
14:31:16 <Steven> ... we can't set an alert on a repeat.
14:32:04 <Steven> ... so we set the constraint on the wish element
14:32:17 <Steven> ... so it shows up on the input for the wish
14:32:35 <Steven> ... but it wouldn't show up with minimum number of wishes
14:32:57 <Steven> ... I guess there's a bigger story.
14:33:30 <Steven> ... you could provide a 'dummy' control
14:33:38 <Steven> Steven: Do we do alert on output?
14:33:41 <Steven> Erik: WE do!
14:33:46 <Steven> ... let's check the spec
14:34:14 <Steven> ... yes output inludes help hint and alert
14:35:10 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to update constrain note, and change it to an example.
14:35:10 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2093 - Update constrain note, and change it to an example. [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-07].
14:35:19 <Steven> Topic: Focus on container controls
14:35:19 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0047.html
14:36:38 <Steven> Erik: Focus can be tricky.
14:36:51 <Steven> ... but I think what you suggest is fine
14:37:12 <Steven> ... there is a recursive aspect
14:38:04 <Steven> Alain: Looks OK for me.
14:38:16 <Steven> ... I'm not sure what we do now, but it's OK
14:38:34 <Steven> Topic: xforms-next/previous
14:38:34 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0073.html
14:39:58 <Steven> Steven: In other words xforms-next would work in a similar way to setfocus
14:40:14 <Steven> Erik: We don't implement this event
14:41:30 <Steven> Steven: It would typically be bound to the tab key
14:45:30 <Steven> Erik: THere's no example in the spec, I don't see the use case.
14:45:49 <Steven> ACTION: Produce example for xforms-next
14:45:49 <trackbot> Error finding 'Produce'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/xforms/users>.
14:45:56 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to Produce example for xforms-next
14:45:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2094 - Produce example for xforms-next [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-07].
14:47:14 <Steven> Erik: My problem is not why you need a nav order, just when would you use this event.
14:47:23 <Steven> Steven: I'll try and produce some use cases
14:47:33 <Steven> Topic: The xforms-rebuild Event
14:47:33 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0057.html
14:49:29 <Steven> Steven: I think that "Any child bind elements are recursively processed as described in the
14:49:29 <Steven> three points of this list."
14:49:29 <Steven> is redundant
14:49:46 <Steven> ... since the inner bind is already covered by the rules
14:49:54 <ebruchez> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0061.html
14:51:08 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0070.html
14:55:15 <Steven> Steven: If you think it's fine as it is, then we leave it as is.
14:55:45 <Steven> Alain: I agree with Erik
14:55:51 <Steven> Steven: FIne, I was wrong.
14:56:01 <Steven> Topic: xforms-refresh
14:56:01 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Nov/0067.html
14:57:42 <Steven> Steven: It seems wasteful. I don;t know why we require this
14:57:48 <Steven> Erik: We don't do it.
14:57:53 <Steven> Alain: I don;t know what we do
14:58:10 <Steven> Steven: How about "events that change MUST be sent, others MAY be sent"
14:58:24 <Steven> Erik: I think we should be explicit about what may and may not be sent
14:58:41 <Steven> s/;/'/
14:59:17 <Steven> ... if the control should change state it should be dispatched only in that case,
14:59:33 <Steven> Alain: I'd agree with that.
14:59:42 <Steven> Philip: Me too
15:00:03 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to tighten definition of which events get sent on value changed
15:00:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2095 - Tighten definition of which events get sent on value changed [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-12-07].
15:00:29 <Steven> Erik: What happens when the control becomes relevant?
15:00:50 <Steven> https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0#Relevance
15:02:39 <alain1> alain1 has left #forms
15:02:55 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
15:03:05 <Steven> Present: Alain, Erik, Philip, Steven
15:03:10 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/30-forms-minutes.html Steven
16:51:03 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
17:26:00 <Zakim> Zakim has left #forms