IRC log of tt on 2016-11-24

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Zakim, this will be TTML
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
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Date: 24 November 2016
15:03:20 [nigel]
Present: Nigel, Pierre
15:03:47 [nigel]
Regrets: Glenn, Philippe, Andreas, Thierry
15:03:51 [nigel]
scribe: nigel
15:05:27 [nigel]
Present+ Rohit
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15:13:29 [nigel]
pierre: [describes implementation experience with imscjs]
15:17:44 [nigel]
-> https://github.com/sandflow/imscJS
15:20:02 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
15:20:15 [nigel]
nigel: There are just 3 of us, so I would propose to describe and minute last night's
15:20:35 [nigel]
... TAG meeting where they reviewed TTML2, also look at F2F agenda items, and
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... cover the liasions.
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s/liasons/liaisons
15:22:25 [nigel]
Topic: F2F agenda
15:22:42 [nigel]
nigel: Agenda items for the F2F?
15:24:37 [nigel]
nigel: My goal for the meeting is to review the ED of TTML2 as it is at that time and try
15:24:59 [nigel]
... to get consensus on any remaining issues so that we can publish a "last call" style
15:25:18 [nigel]
... WD for wide review, i.e. to be the basis of the Candidate Recommendation.
15:26:02 [nigel]
nigel: I would also like to review any IMSC 1.1 feedback.
15:26:12 [nigel]
Pierre: We may need 3-4 hours for that.
15:26:27 [nigel]
... I can make sure we get to that meeting with a good baseline IMSC 1.1 edit that
15:26:39 [nigel]
... addresses those issues that have been assigned to IMSC 1.1 and proposals to defer
15:26:43 [nigel]
... some issues to IMSC2 etc.
15:27:17 [nigel]
nigel: As far as I know we will not be covering WebVTT feedback.
15:27:32 [nigel]
nigel: Also we may have an observer from the TAG.
15:27:41 [nigel]
... I'd like to describe the TAG meeting's TTML2 review briefly.
15:28:36 [nigel]
... They focused on profiles, and alignment with CSS, mainly. Also if it is intended for
15:28:55 [nigel]
... browsers and how to support changes in display of HTML/CSS at defined times
15:29:03 [nigel]
... in a better way than the existing VTTCue implementations.
15:29:19 [nigel]
... On profiles, TAG isn't sure they're a good idea, mainly because they have a view that
15:29:43 [nigel]
... we should specify stuff that everyone implements/can implement.
15:30:26 [nigel]
nigel: My view on that is that profiles in TTML are being used and that they form
15:30:36 [nigel]
... rungs on the ladder, i.e. labelled points of stability that people can rely on.
15:32:54 [nigel]
... On CSS, there was some good analysis that suggested that we may be making the
15:33:13 [nigel]
... alignment with HTML and CSS worse than we need to. They would like to help
15:33:40 [nigel]
... people understand how to translate TTML to HTML/CSS to reuse the rendering engines
15:34:00 [nigel]
... in user agents. In particular there are two areas of concern: 1. that we have some
15:34:18 [nigel]
... style attributes with names that sound like CSS properties but are actually different,
15:34:45 [nigel]
... such as fontVariant. 2. that we could align better the value space for specific style
15:35:22 [nigel]
... attributes, perhaps by not omitting values that have use, like "auto" in some cases.
15:38:53 [nigel]
... Finally they did consider the HTMLCue idea and were generally positive that something
15:39:16 [nigel]
... like that would be a good idea, but not confident about their ability to influence
15:39:19 [nigel]
... all browser makers.
15:39:51 [nigel]
Rohit: What do you think the TTWG should do?
15:40:14 [nigel]
nigel: In my view we should do one more pass on alignment with CSS to check
15:40:26 [nigel]
... style attribute names and value spaces, and also to consider what the fallback
15:40:45 [nigel]
... scenarios are for cases where our semantics are not (yet) supported in CSS.
15:41:08 [nigel]
Rohit: Would it be worth considering other serialisations than XML such as JSON?
15:41:32 [nigel]
Pierre: It's definitely possible to create a 1:1 mapping.
15:41:35 [nigel]
Rohit: It's easy.
15:41:50 [nigel]
Pierre: The question of what is the right mapping would depend on the exact use case.
15:42:03 [nigel]
... I mean what is the interoperability point for that exchange? Are we looking for a
15:42:44 [nigel]
s/ Are we looking for a/
15:43:00 [nigel]
... If we know the use case then we can figure out the approach.
15:43:03 [nigel]
Rohit: Fair enough!
15:43:40 [nigel]
nigel: I'm reminded that Glenn told us that any serialisation that supports namespaces
15:43:53 [nigel]
... could be used. JSON does not support them out of the box of course, but we could
15:43:56 [nigel]
... define something.
15:44:22 [nigel]
Pierre: There are some solutions to that, such as specifying a qualifying name in the JSON structure.
15:44:36 [nigel]
... How we solve that problem depends on the use case and the interoperability point.
15:47:24 [nigel]
nigel: The last point on the TAG review relating to the F2F is that one of the TAG members
15:47:41 [nigel]
... who is based in London may attend part of our meeting as an observer, which I think
15:47:44 [nigel]
... would be great.
15:47:54 [nigel]
Topic: IMSC
15:48:07 [nigel]
nigel: I just want to note that the liaison text is done, and unless there are any late
15:48:20 [nigel]
... changes to the text I sent to the reflector then it's just a matter of me finding time
15:48:33 [nigel]
... to turn the handle and send them out, which I plan to do very soon (e.g. tomorrow)
15:48:55 [nigel]
... That should get us the responses we are requesting in time for the F2F.
15:49:07 [nigel]
Topic: Profiles registry
15:49:18 [nigel]
nigel: We are not quorate for this right now, deferring until next week.
15:51:47 [nigel]
Topic: Unicode liaison
15:51:57 [nigel]
nigel: As on the agenda, there's an update to this - they're thinking about it!
15:52:12 [nigel]
Pierre: It's great that they are looking at it.
15:53:53 [nigel]
nigel: I think we're done for the agenda for today, so thank you guys very much for joining on thanksgiving and enjoy the rest of your day! [Adjourns meeting]
15:54:08 [nigel]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:54:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/24-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:56:15 [nigel]
Chair: Nigel
15:56:42 [nigel]
s/Topic: F2F agenda/Topic: F2F agenda and TAG review
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s|s/liasons/liaisons||
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s/liasions/liaisons
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/24-tt-minutes.html nigel
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ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/24-tt-minutes.html nigel
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