19:32:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdw
19:32:56 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/11/16-sdw-irc
19:32:58 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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19:33:00 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
19:33:00 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
19:33:01 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
19:33:01 <trackbot> Date: 16 November 2016
19:54:38 <roba> roba has joined #sdw
19:56:10 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20161116
19:56:17 <phila> chair: Kerry
19:56:23 <phila> regrets+ Ed
19:57:44 <Payam> Payam has joined #sdw
19:59:32 <ahaller2> ahaller2 has joined #sdw
19:59:55 <kerry> kerry has joined #sdw
20:00:03 <ahaller2> present+ ahaller2
20:00:29 <kerry> present+ kerry
20:00:31 <roba> present+
20:00:53 <Payam> present+ Payam
20:01:12 <kerry> regrest+ eparsons
20:01:25 <kerry> regrets+ scott
20:01:27 <kerry> scribe?
20:02:26 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdw
20:02:45 <Linda> present+ Linda
20:02:57 <ChrisLittle> ChrisLittle has joined #Sdw
20:03:13 <ByronCinNZ> ByronCinNZ has joined #sdw
20:03:39 <frans> frans has joined #sdw
20:03:52 <ByronCinNZ> present+ ByronCinNZ
20:04:39 <kerry> scribe: jeremy tandy
20:04:41 <frans> present+ frans
20:05:18 <phila> present+
20:05:22 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
20:05:41 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdw
20:05:42 <ChrisLittle> Present+ ChrisLittle
20:05:42 <jtandy> present= jtandy
20:05:42 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
20:05:47 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:05:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/16-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:05:53 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdw
20:05:53 <kerry> scribeNick: jtandy
20:05:57 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
20:06:06 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
20:06:10 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:06:14 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:06:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/16-sdw-minutes.html phila
20:06:18 <kerry> topic: approve minutes http://www.w3.org/2016/11/02-sdw-minutes.html
20:06:25 <kerry> +1
20:06:27 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:06:28 <jtandy> +1
20:06:31 <Linda> +1
20:06:35 <ByronCinNZ> +1
20:06:40 <kerry> resolved: minutes approvied
20:07:27 <AndreaPerego> s/minutes approvied/minutes approved/
20:07:46 <kerry> topic: patent call  https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
20:08:17 <roba> +1
20:08:18 <kerry> regrets+ rachel
20:08:19 <jtandy> topic: face to face agenda
20:08:29 <jtandy> kerry: the agenda is looking a bit slim
20:08:37 <jtandy> ... no response from jtandy
20:08:45 <jtandy> ... copying the link now
20:08:51 <kerry> agenda  https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:F2F5
20:09:05 <jtandy> kerry: this is the current agenda
20:09:15 <Linda> q+
20:09:17 <AndreaPerego> regrets+ eparsons
20:09:17 <jtandy> ... ssn will take up 11-1pm on both days
20:09:37 <jtandy> ... coverage will claim beginning of thurs morning
20:09:44 <jtandy> ... [there are big gaps!]
20:09:52 <jtandy> q+
20:10:08 <jtandy> kerry: lunch ...
20:10:23 <jtandy> ... haven't got anything for best practice or time yet
20:10:37 <jtandy> Linda: jtandy and I have been really busy ...
20:11:02 <AndreaPerego> regrets+ ScottSimmons
20:11:13 <jtandy> ... we can do something similar to Lisbon to have a vote on the priority best practices to work on
20:12:11 <jtandy> ... what I really want is for people to finish with responsibility to look after a best practice (please!)
20:12:17 <phila> kerry: Will there be BP issues to address?
20:12:20 <phila> jtandy: Yes
20:12:43 <phila> kerry: So is it OK if BP tales 2pm onwards both days?
20:12:45 <phila> jtandy: Yes
20:12:46 <jtandy> kerry: so we can pick the key issues to talk about
20:12:52 <jtandy> ... closer to the time
20:14:00 <phila> jtandy: Ithink we should still aim for a new release. Maybe not as much change as we'd like
20:14:16 <phila> ... Really only me and Linda working on it
20:14:42 <jtandy> q?
20:14:46 <jtandy> q-
20:14:52 <Linda> q-
20:15:52 <frans> what does voting by correspondence mean exactly?
20:16:24 <kerry> q?
20:16:49 <jtandy> kerry: so I think that means vote for release of the draft friday before 11am
20:17:02 <jtandy> frans: what does correspondance mean?
20:17:31 <jtandy> jtandy: vote by sending to the public WG email list
20:17:34 <jtandy> kerry: OK ...
20:17:38 <frans> q+
20:17:43 <jtandy> ... so BP will be after 2pm both days
20:18:02 <jtandy> kerry: asking for any other comments or suggestions?
20:18:09 <jtandy> ... hearing none
20:18:09 <kerry> q?
20:18:27 <jtandy> ChrisLittle: asks which Google office
20:18:35 <jtandy> jtandy: Victoria ...
20:18:36 <kerry> q?
20:18:54 <jtandy> frans: will there be a chance for the development of the spatial ontology to be on the agenda?
20:19:04 <jtandy> kerry: excellent suggestion
20:19:24 <jtandy> ... this would requires an afternoon slot so that Josh can contribute?
20:19:33 <jtandy> ... suggesting 2pm on Thursday
20:19:43 <jtandy> ... does that suit you frans?
20:19:56 <jtandy> frans: did Josh say he wanted to participate?
20:20:02 <jtandy> kerry: yes ...
20:20:12 <jtandy> ... so 2pm thursday
20:20:21 <jtandy> ... 2-3pm
20:20:41 <kerry> q?
20:20:42 <jtandy> ChrisLittle: thurs is better [because it gives flexibility for josh]
20:20:49 <frans> q-
20:20:54 <kerry> ack frans
20:21:00 <jtandy> kerry: Ok ... movin gon
20:21:08 <kerry> topic: Review expected state of documents by time for F2F (SSN, BP, 3*Cov). Outstanding issues?
20:21:10 <jtandy> s/movin gon/moving on/
20:21:36 <jtandy> kerry: armin- could you comment on SSN doc
20:21:50 <jtandy> ... what will be in it prior to the f2f meeting
20:22:05 <jtandy> ahaller2: we're hoping to have a new version
20:22:17 <jtandy> ... including things decided in last few weeks
20:22:21 <jtandy> ... actuation
20:22:39 <jtandy> ... decisions around SOSA core - probably called SOSA, but name in flux
20:22:51 <jtandy> ... should probably be part of the normative core
20:23:10 <jtandy> ... have been talking about the formal language constructs to be used in sosa-core
20:23:30 <kerry> q+
20:23:30 <jtandy> ... this is taking the bulk of the effort because sosa-core has no text yet
20:23:46 <jtandy> kerry: we're planning to use "spec-gen" this time
20:23:59 <jtandy> ... seeking feedback on whether this is a good idea
20:24:17 <kerry> q?
20:24:19 <jtandy> ahaller2: hmmm, tried this week - but not so easy
20:24:26 <jtandy> [python issues]
20:24:48 <jtandy> kerry: with the new part of ssn expect to see a bunch of new and unresolved issues
20:24:59 <jtandy> kerry: moving on- next deliverable
20:25:12 <jtandy> ... expecting a small incremental update?
20:25:27 <jtandy> ... any issues to be highlighted?
20:26:06 <jtandy> Linda: just small things - for example, this week have added some more stuff to §9 about the most fundamental best practices.
20:26:51 <jtandy> jtandy: will include the information that we discussed in TPAC about the two best practices
20:27:03 <jtandy> kerry: coverages? do we have Bill here? no
20:27:15 <jtandy> ... Rob- can you speak to this?
20:27:37 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:27:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/16-sdw-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:27:44 <jtandy> roba: CovJSON is fairly mature ... should be ready for another release if this is required
20:28:17 <jtandy> ... as for QB4ST, am expecting to have this ready, but ask [please] for some expert review to get it in shape
20:28:40 <jtandy> ChrisLittle: I have some more use cases from Mark Hedley (Met Office) that can contribute
20:29:02 <frans> q+
20:29:03 <jtandy> roba: that would be great - but I also need review of the ontology [structure?]
20:29:14 <jtandy> ... [and some other stuff the scribe missed]
20:29:53 <jtandy> roba: reasonably comfortable that the motivating use cases are covered
20:30:12 <jtandy> kerry: i _will_ get to that ... finishing exam marking by monday
20:30:24 <jtandy> roba: even comments with quick flags would be good
20:30:47 <jtandy> kerry: for all three coverage deliverables, this will be the first time published as working drafts
20:31:05 <jtandy> ... all three need a fair bit of writing before the f2f meeting
20:31:23 <jtandy> ... we need to pay attention as to when they are in a reviewable state
20:31:34 <jtandy> ... covjson was one-third written
20:31:49 <jtandy> ... another half-written
20:32:06 <jtandy> ... so _please_ be ready for some "invitations" to review
20:32:24 <jtandy> ... might be wrong about covjson- but haven't looked in a while
20:32:29 <jtandy> q?
20:32:30 <kerry> q?
20:32:36 <kerry> ack kerry
20:32:37 <kerry> ack frans
20:32:59 <frans> https://www.w3.org/TR/sdw-ucr/#MultilingualSupport
20:33:14 <jtandy> frans: reminds us all of a requirement for ontologies [see link]
20:33:21 <jtandy> ... multilingual annotations
20:33:34 <jtandy> ... if we're reviewing, we could also add those other languages
20:34:03 <jtandy> ... just wanted to raise this point - and so that we can open up opportunities for non-english speakers to contribute to the reivew
20:34:18 <jtandy> kerry: fairly sure that we're not going to get this before the f2f
20:34:29 <jtandy> frans: where's the optimal time for this?
20:35:10 <jtandy> roba: translation would be fantastic for QB4ST; just some of the core concepts, that would be fine
20:35:29 <jtandy> ... another question would be about modularity of the language annotations
20:35:35 <kerry> q+
20:35:35 <ChrisLittle> +1 to Rob's QB4ST annotation
20:35:43 <jtandy> ... should they be in a different file?
20:35:57 <jtandy> kerry: would want to see the language annotations in the single file
20:36:09 <jtandy> ... to make sure we're talking about the same concept
20:36:21 <jtandy> kerry: was frans hinting that he could help with tranlsations?
20:36:36 <ahaller2> I can do German in SSN and SOSA
20:36:46 <jtandy> frans: we have many people who can speak the languages - quite an easy job
20:37:01 <roba> +1 :-)
20:37:14 <ChrisLittle> * for good English we   Need  the Dutch
20:37:19 <jtandy> ... also the process of translation should help improve the quality of the English definition
20:37:29 <frans> I can do Dutch
20:37:33 <roba> ahaller2 - can you look at QB4ST please - its really quite small...
20:37:48 <jtandy> kerry: [thanks volunteers] remembers that someone said they could do French
20:37:59 <roba> q+
20:38:19 <kerry> action: ahaller2 to do german annotations for ssn, inc sosa, qb4st, time
20:38:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-222 - Do german annotations for ssn, inc sosa, qb4st, time [on Armin Haller - due 2016-11-23].
20:39:01 <jtandy> kerry: can I action you too frans?
20:39:10 <jtandy> frans: yes- for dutch translations
20:39:22 <ahaller2> I will do the labels first and wait for the comments to be more stable
20:39:25 <kerry> action: frans to do dutch annotations for ssn inc sosa, qb4st, time
20:39:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-223 - Do dutch annotations for ssn inc sosa, qb4st, time [on Frans Knibbe - due 2016-11-23].
20:39:39 <ahaller2> Raul can do Spanish
20:39:41 <jtandy> kerry: that's good
20:40:06 <kerry> q?
20:40:09 <ahaller2> and we should find someone doing Mandarin
20:40:13 <kerry> q-
20:40:15 <kerry> ack roba
20:40:30 <ahaller2> q+
20:40:38 <jtandy> roba: while translations is a good idea, I note that most of the W3C ontologies are in English only
20:41:01 <jtandy> frans: that's a weakness on W3C
20:41:30 <jtandy> ... one role that onotologies and annotations play in visualising data
20:41:41 <jtandy> ... is making it easier for people to understand
20:42:14 <jtandy> roba: wonders about which is normative if there are subtle differences in the ontologies
20:42:24 <kerry> q+
20:42:31 <kerry> ack ahaller2
20:42:31 <jtandy> ... may cause some issues with internal inconsistencies
20:42:51 <jtandy> ... suggest that we have one file for now and then split out later
20:42:56 <kerry> ack ahalller2
20:43:08 <jtandy> ahaller2: we only need a couple of translations to start
20:43:14 <kerry> ack ahalller
20:43:24 <jtandy> ... and then ask the W3C offices to add the normative translations
20:43:38 <jtandy> kerry: does that work for annotations in the ontology?
20:43:54 <AndreaPerego> Maybe be worth asking Phil about the exact process.
20:43:55 <jtandy> ahaller2: you're right - that's different, so we should show how it's done
20:44:12 <AndreaPerego> s/Maybe be/May be/
20:44:12 <jtandy> ... and ask them to provide input prior to final release
20:44:16 <ChrisLittle> +1 to English as  normative
20:44:21 <frans> Good idea
20:44:25 <jtandy> kerry: so do we suggest the English one is normative
20:44:26 <kerry> q?
20:44:33 <frans> +1 to English as normative
20:44:43 <jtandy> +1 English as normative
20:44:43 <ahaller2> ack ahaller
20:44:57 <jtandy> roba: are we making new policy for W3C?
20:45:02 <jtandy> kerry: maybe ...
20:45:37 <jtandy> [... calling phila ...]
20:45:48 <jtandy> kerry: no response
20:45:53 <kerry> q?
20:46:36 <jtandy> topic: are we making progress in these plenary meetings?
20:46:47 <jtandy> kerry: we're not working hard enough
20:46:56 <jtandy> ... there's a lot of work to do
20:47:07 <jtandy> ... are these valuable?
20:47:12 <jtandy> ... Comments please?
20:47:15 <ChrisLittle> Q+
20:47:22 <kerry> ack ChrisLittle
20:47:28 <kerry> q-
20:47:52 <jtandy> ChrisLittle: this meeting is relatively productive; pulling things together, assigning things together
20:48:04 <jtandy> ... not required every week
20:48:30 <jtandy> kerry: only done every two weeks
20:48:48 <jtandy> jtandy: plenary meeting is not stopping BP progress
20:49:06 <jtandy> kerry: SSN is meeting every week anyway
20:49:11 <kerry> regrets+ simoncox
20:49:14 <ahaller2> +1 to Chris' and jtandy's comment, this meeting does not prevent us from doing our work in the sub-groups
20:49:26 <AndreaPerego> +1
20:49:37 <jtandy> roba: now that we're in the closing stretch, we should continue - it doesn't stop us making progress
20:49:45 <jtandy> topic: outstanding actions
20:49:50 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/
20:49:59 <jtandy> [kerry pulls up the tracker]
20:50:07 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/overdue
20:50:36 <jtandy> kerry: wow- ignoring some of the earliest ones
20:50:41 <phila> phila has joined #sdw
20:50:44 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/track/actions/112
20:50:45 <jtandy> ... seeing a stack of UCR issues
20:51:14 <roba> i think  the 3 assigned to me are all done 188, 194, 195
20:52:01 <roba> but would like to raise 1 for review of Qb4ST :-)
20:52:02 <jtandy> frans: since the UCR issues are now all closed, then all the actions should be too
20:52:33 <jtandy> [kerry lists lots of UCR actions to close]
20:52:47 <kerry> q?
20:53:20 <jtandy> roba: 188, 194 and 195 are done - these can be closed
20:53:43 <jtandy> roba: but would like to add a new one about review of QB4ST  ... who to assign to?
20:53:56 <frans> Would like to note that everyone is free to close their own actions
20:54:01 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:54:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/16-sdw-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:54:11 <jtandy> [kerry closes those actions while we listen]
20:54:26 <phila> q+
20:54:36 <ChrisLittle> Q+
20:54:48 <phila> q- later
20:54:55 <jtandy> roba: can we have a formal action to review QB4ST?
20:55:08 <AndreaPerego> regrets- eparsons
20:55:15 <AndreaPerego> regrets- ScottSimmons
20:55:15 <kerry> ack phila
20:55:20 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
20:55:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/16-sdw-minutes.html AndreaPerego
20:55:25 <jtandy> ... also about the normative nature of language translations
20:55:39 <jtandy> [phila is back]
20:55:56 <kerry> topic: language translations of ontology annotations
20:56:11 <AndreaPerego> DCAT: https://www.w3.org/ns/dcat.ttl
20:56:35 <kerry> and also multilingual labels
20:56:45 <jtandy> phila: W3C has lots of translations
20:57:09 <jtandy> ... specs translated into the languages that are popular
20:57:27 <jtandy> ... RDFS labels and comments
20:57:43 <jtandy> kerry: so is the English version [more] normative
20:58:18 <jtandy> phila: the document published in REC space will be in English, so this is normative
20:58:30 <jtandy> kerry: can we ask the W3C offices to do this?
20:58:42 <jtandy> phila: we wouldn't ask a matter of course
20:59:23 <jtandy> ... and notes that case sensitivity is meaningless when translating in Japanese!
20:59:28 <kerry> action: chris to review QB4ST
20:59:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-224 - Review qb4st [on Chris Little - due 2016-11-23].
20:59:41 <kerry> action: kerry to review QB4ST
20:59:41 <trackbot> Created ACTION-225 - Review qb4st [on Kerry Taylor - due 2016-11-23].
20:59:46 <jtandy> q?
21:00:13 <kerry> ack ChrisLittle
21:00:15 <jtandy> kerry: time to close ...
21:00:25 <Linda> q+
21:00:30 <jtandy> ChrisLittle: suggests an action to close
21:00:37 <jtandy> ... i'll check
21:00:56 <jtandy> kerry: please close your own actions! encouraged to do so
21:01:14 <kerry> ack Linda
21:01:32 <jtandy> Linda: is planning an article on BP for semantic web journal
21:01:44 <frans> Thanks & have a good day
21:01:51 <Payam> Payam has joined #sdw
21:01:52 <jtandy> ... asking anyone else who is active to be co-authors on this paper
21:01:55 <jtandy> bye!
21:01:59 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!
21:02:05 <Linda> bye!
21:02:05 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:02:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/16-sdw-minutes.html AndreaPerego
21:02:06 <kerry> rrsagent draft minutes
21:02:07 <ahaller2> thanks, bye
21:02:09 <AndreaPerego> RRSAgent, draft minutes
21:02:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/16-sdw-minutes.html AndreaPerego
22:10:13 <ahaller2> ahaller2 has joined #sdw