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12:25:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:25:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:25:16 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
12:25:16 <trackbot> Date: 15 November 2016
12:25:43 <renato> Agenda: Constraints - Technical Discussion
12:25:52 <renato> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:33:36 <Brian_Ulicny> present+
12:33:49 <renato> present+ renato
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12:34:17 <victor> where are you connected? do you have a webex link?
12:34:26 <victor> the usual one does not seem to work
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12:34:30 <victor> hi ben
12:34:37 <benws1114> hi
12:34:41 <renato>  https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m68305a7186fe840c6004b820a1f4eb66
12:34:45 <benws1114> present+
12:34:52 <ivan> present+
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12:35:44 <smyles> present+
12:36:02 <victor> present+
12:36:14 <Brian_Ulicny> can't scribe this morning.  Need to leave a bit early to catch train.
12:36:46 <simonstey> sabrina sends her regrets
12:36:53 <renato> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1qGlBEpRgi60WyNnHLCfMuXlnTV1zzpoRz8DakIiOcP0/edit?usp=sharing
12:37:05 <simonstey> regrets+ SabrinaKirrane
12:37:14 <simonstey> present+
12:39:12 <renato> michael walking thru the document
12:39:23 <simonstey> q+
12:41:42 <smyles> q+
12:41:48 <simonstey> ack simonstey
12:42:56 <simonstey> +q
12:44:43 <victor> q+
12:44:46 <benws1114> q+
12:46:30 <simonstey> ack smyles
12:48:37 <simonstey> smyles: [elaborating on the differences between constraints applied to perm/proh./duties]
12:50:52 <renato> simon: what does it mean if the constraint is not meet?
12:51:32 <simonstey> ack simonstey
12:51:34 <simonstey> ack victor
12:52:27 <renato> victor: describes XACML architecture
12:52:35 <simonstey> +q
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12:53:29 <michaelS> present+
12:53:54 <simonstey> ack benws1114
12:54:02 <simonstey> ack benws
12:54:18 <renato> Ben: the unit makes it a complex constraint
12:54:19 <simonstey> odrl:permission [     a odrl:Permission ;     odrl:action odrl:play ;     odrl:target <http://example.com/game:4589> ;     odrl:constraint [       a odrl:Constraint ;       odrl:operator odrl:lteq ;       odrl:dateTime "2010-12-31"^^xsd:date     ]   ] .
12:54:42 <benws1114>  q-
12:55:33 <victor> About Ben's complex constraint 50 AUD, I would say this would be trivial to fix if we had only one syntax. E.g., in RDF we would speak in terms of "RDF triple patterns" and everything would be evident.
12:55:39 <michaelS> q+
12:57:17 <simonstey> ack simonstey
12:57:28 <victor> In OASIS XACML, PDP evaluates the constraints. Whenever a policy makes reference to a dynamic variable, the PIP is queryed in real time to obtain the value of an attribute (This feature is only available since version 3.0)
12:57:36 <victor> this, indeed, assumes that we are having "variables".
12:58:00 <renato> q+
12:58:21 <ivan> ack michaelS
12:58:44 <victor> To end with, I would avoid defining an architecture or replicating what OASIS XACML has, but perhaps some simple mechamism would not harm.
12:59:01 <simonstey> +q
12:59:03 <ivan> +1 michaelS
12:59:34 <michaelS> q-
12:59:54 <simonstey> ack renato
13:00:10 <benws1114> q+
13:02:26 <simonstey> http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/#MaxLengthConstraintComponent
13:04:44 <victor> Simon, the problem of leaning on SHACL is that it only works for RDF. As I said, if we had one single syntax everything would be simpler...
13:05:08 <michaelS> q+
13:05:08 <simonstey> no
13:05:11 <simonstey> ack simonstey
13:06:11 <simonstey> victor, http://w3c.github.io/data-shapes/shacl/#functions
13:06:47 <ivan> q+
13:07:26 <simonstey> ack benws
13:07:45 <victor> oh! do you think an XML implementation can also use that? certainly!  To compare with, these are the URN-defined functions in XACML. http://docs.oasis-open.org/xacml/3.0/xacml-3.0-core-spec-os-en.html#_Toc325047234
13:07:51 <simonstey> +q
13:07:58 <ivan> ack michaelS
13:08:02 <victor> q+
13:11:06 <simonstey> ack simonstey
13:11:15 <victor> to answer Michael: in OASIS there is a component aimed at obtaining the missing values for certain attributes (PIP). The Policy information point (PIP) acts as a source of attribute values.
13:11:19 <renato> q+
13:11:24 <simonstey> ack ivan
13:11:33 <victor> my question: shall we defined components? do we all agree that we won't?
13:13:25 <victor> s/defined/define
13:14:07 <Brian_Ulicny> I'm going to need to run, but one common constraint would be "if API key is valid" but validity of API keys is not something we will define or can define.
13:14:24 <smyles> q+
13:14:44 <victor> Status: the current value of a constraint. https://www.w3.org/ns/odrl/2/#term-status
13:15:00 <smyles> agree with brian - there are always going to be things that can only be validated "outside" an ODRL system
13:16:26 <michaelS> q+
13:17:06 <victor> odrl:payAmount odrl:eq odrl:var1 . odrl:var1 a ODRL:VARIABLE . odrl:var1 ODRL:ASSIGNEDBY <http://.../getPriceBlock> .
13:18:48 <simonstey> +q
13:18:57 <simonstey> ack victor
13:19:26 <renato> ack renato
13:19:44 <victor> -q
13:20:51 <renato> ack smyles
13:21:32 <simonstey> q-
13:21:47 <simonstey> +q
13:23:01 <ivan> q+
13:25:06 <simonstey> ack michaelS
13:27:05 <victor> These API (implementing <http://.../getPriceBlock>) might be eventually parts of profiles.
13:27:20 <victor> s/parts/part
13:28:21 <renato> ack simonstey
13:28:42 <michaelS> q+
13:29:41 <simonstey> ack ivan
13:30:19 <victor> q+
13:30:58 <renato> Queue is closed ;-)
13:32:32 <victor> q-
13:33:53 <michaelS> q-
13:34:30 <victor> shall we open a page at https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki to discuss/analyze term by term?
13:35:32 <victor> I volunteer to open there a table specifying application range/domain
13:36:00 <victor> (not many decisions taken so far, though!!)
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