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12:58:07 <Ian> Meeting: Payments Apps Task Force
12:58:51 <Ian> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-payments-wg/2016Nov/0000.html
12:58:53 <Ian> Chair: Ian
12:58:58 <Ian> Regrets+ AdrianHB
12:59:11 <Ian> agenda+ upcoming meetings
12:59:14 <Ian> agenda+ option displays
12:59:16 <Ian> agenda+ filtering
12:59:21 <Ian> agenda+ web share APi
12:59:33 <Ian> present+ Ian
12:59:35 <Ian> present+ Tommy
12:59:39 <Ian> present+ Pascal
12:59:52 <pascal_bazin> pascal_bazin has joined #apps
13:01:02 <Ian> present+ Andre
13:01:43 <alyver> alyver has joined #apps
13:01:46 <Ian> present+ Adam
13:01:51 <jnormore> jnormore has joined #apps
13:01:52 <Ian> present+ Max
13:02:01 <alyver> present +alyver
13:02:30 <Ian> present+ Jason
13:03:16 <Ian> zakim, take up item 1
13:03:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "upcoming meetings" taken up [from Ian]
13:03:28 <Ian> 16 Nov, 23 Nov, 30 Nov, 7 Dec, 14 Dec, 4 Jan 2017
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13:03:59 <Ian> adamR: Regrets for 16 Nov
13:04:07 <rouslan> present+ Rouslan
13:04:37 <Ian> zakim, close this item
13:04:37 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
13:04:38 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:04:38 <Zakim> 2. option displays [from Ian]
13:04:40 <Ian> zakim, take up item 2
13:04:40 <Zakim> agendum 2. "option displays" taken up [from Ian]
13:04:52 <Ian> https://www.money2020.com/sessions/part-2-one-click-buying-new-w3c-standards-for-web-payments
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13:05:59 <Ian> https://w3c.github.io/webpayments-payment-apps-api/#selectable-app-information-display
13:07:22 <Ian> IJ: Please review.
13:07:33 <Ian> AdamR: I think this one addresses it - "The user agent MUST display matching payment apps in an order that corresponds to the order of supported payment methods supplied by the payee, except where the user agent enables the user to override this order."
13:08:31 <Max> q+
13:08:40 <Ian> IJ: "The user agent MUST display all matching payment apps."
13:09:02 <Ian> ...that's supposed to prevent discrimination..but we may not want to be absolute (e.g., security)
13:09:16 <Ian> AdamR: Browsers will ignore it in that case...we could say "MUST unless security"....
13:09:21 <Ian> ack Max
13:09:38 <alyver> q+
13:09:49 <Ian> max: I'm not sure whether the merchant should take control of the browser
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13:10:20 <alyver> q-
13:10:36 <Ian> ...I want to emphasize that we should allow some merchant control
13:10:50 <Ian> ...I will think about alternatives
13:11:07 <Ian> ...one question is - what is the relationship between the six bullets...are there any internal conflicts?
13:11:08 <jnormore> q+
13:11:09 <Ian> q?
13:11:12 <Ian> ack jnormore
13:12:02 <Ian> jnormore: I am somewhat conflicted...from merchant perspective I want total control. But from a UX perspective, and in light of conversation about detecting presence of payment methods....if detection is NOT possible, then I'd rather the browser have some flexibility
13:12:16 <Ian> ...the browser should be able to Show or Not Show based on its own ability to detect enabled payment instruments
13:12:33 <Ian> ...user experience should trump merchant preference
13:14:27 <Ian> IJ: About the bullets
13:14:31 <Ian>  * Some are about matching payments
13:14:36 <Ian>  * Some are about recommended payment apps
13:15:38 <pascal_bazin> q+
13:15:42 <Ian> ack pascal
13:19:38 <Ian> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/59
13:19:58 <Ian> https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/59#issuecomment-249926853
13:22:32 <Ian> IJ: How is Chrome on Android managing payment app order?
13:23:12 <TommyT> q+
13:23:25 <Ian> ack Tom
13:23:43 <Ian> TommyT: I think that the current rules in there are pretty good
13:23:47 <rouslan> q+ to talk about chrome's strategy for app sorting
13:23:59 <Ian> ...I would not  like to see any more hard specification that forces an implementer to let the user configure something
13:24:04 <Ian> ...I think that should be up to the implementer
13:24:51 <Ian> ...right now the text says the the user can override the merchant BY CONFIGURATION...but it would ALSO be useful to be able to present payment apps based on user behavior (e.g., most recently used app for a site)
13:24:53 <Ian> +1
13:25:38 <Ian> IJ: And I note that in 9.1.1. we could mention "most recently used" as well
13:25:44 <Ian> ack rouslan
13:25:44 <Zakim> rouslan, you wanted to talk about chrome's strategy for app sorting
13:26:12 <Ian> rouslan: Chrome hasn't implemented this yet. The ordering we would like to use is a combination of frequency of usage and recent usage
13:26:13 <adamR> Heh. I was about to explain frecency too.
13:26:58 <Ian> rouslan: We also plan to use as signals (but not necessarily as the rule of law) such things as the order preferred by the merchant
13:27:08 <Ian> ...which is the order in the PR API constructor
13:27:12 <Ian> q?
13:27:31 <Ian> ----
13:27:41 <Ian> * Display any matching (possibly modulated by security)
13:28:02 <Ian> * Prefer user configure (add: or behavior) over merchant
13:28:09 <Ian> * MAY allow configuration
13:28:46 <Ian> Ian: I will do a pull request with three changes:
13:28:51 <Ian> 1) Clarify behavior ok
13:28:57 <Ian> 2) Add security bit to first bullet
13:29:09 <Ian> 3) https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/59#issuecomment-249926853
13:29:13 <TommyT> q+
13:29:18 <Ian> ack T
13:29:36 <Ian> TommyT: If we like the ordering suggestion from Rouslan from chrome, that contracts bullet 5
13:30:19 <rouslan> Frecency
13:30:19 <Ian> IJ: I will also add frecency to 9.1.1
13:30:34 <adamR> q+
13:30:46 <Ian> ack AdamR
13:30:55 <rouslan> +1
13:30:59 <Ian> AdamR: If we mention freceny .. just as an example
13:31:02 <rouslan> +1 to example, not normative
13:31:43 <Ian> q?
13:32:01 <Ian> zakim, close item 2
13:32:01 <Zakim> agendum 2, option displays, closed
13:32:02 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
13:32:02 <Zakim> 3. filtering [from Ian]
13:32:05 <Ian> zakim, take up item 3
13:32:05 <Zakim> agendum 3. "filtering" taken up [from Ian]
13:32:08 <Ian>    https://github.com/w3c/webpayments-payment-apps-api/issues/63#issuecomment-254831097
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13:33:54 <Ian> AdamR: The only thing that works here is EITHER having an a priori means of expressing the information OR a lambda function in isolation
13:35:10 <Ian> IJ: What does a function take? a list of PMI/filter pairs?
13:37:49 <Ian> AdamR: Ok to send all payment method data to these functions that run in isolation?
13:38:00 <Ian> IJ: How does the browser ensure isolation?
13:38:12 <Ian> AdamR: Via a null origin (or unique origin)
13:38:25 <Ian> ...so same origin policy used here
13:38:44 <Ian> IJ: Can they still make server side calls?
13:38:47 <Ian> AdamR: No
13:38:57 <Ian> Jason: That would satisfy the server-side performance concern
13:39:08 <Ian> AdamR: We'd have to talk to security people about whether null origin is sufficient
13:39:26 <Ian> ...but I am confident that we can specify this (params in, boolean out)
13:40:15 <Ian> IJ: Anybody want to take a stab?
13:40:21 <Ian> AdamR: I will take a stab at it.
13:41:22 <Ian> https://github.com/zkoch/zkoch.github.io/blob/master/pmi.md
13:44:01 <Ian> http://w3c.github.io/webpayments-methods-credit-transfer-direct-debit/
13:45:18 <Ian> IJ: My expectation is that different networks will apply for credit transfer as well
13:46:43 <Ian> AdamR: Concerned about complexity
13:47:40 <Ian> {
13:47:40 <Ian>   supportedMethods: ['basic-card-payment'],
13:47:40 <Ian>   data: {
13:47:40 <Ian>     supportedNetworks: ['mastercard'],
13:47:40 <Ian>     supportedTypes: ['credit']
13:47:41 <Ian>   }
13:48:52 <Ian> ===
13:48:56 <adamR>   {
13:48:56 <adamR>     supportedMethods: ['basic-card-payment'],
13:48:57 <adamR>     supportedSubMethods: ['visa/debit','mastercard/credit']
13:48:58 <adamR>   }
13:52:16 <Ian> (Thanks!)
13:52:33 <Ian> IJ: When might we see a proposal?
13:52:59 <Ian> AdamR: I can probably have something by 23 Nov
13:53:08 <Ian> zakim, close this item
13:53:08 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
13:53:09 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
13:53:09 <Zakim> 4. web share APi [from Ian]
13:53:11 <Ian> zakim, take up item 4
13:53:11 <Zakim> agendum 4. "web share APi" taken up [from Ian]
13:53:44 <Ian> https://github.com/mgiuca/web-share/blob/master/docs/explainer.md
13:54:58 <Ian> IJ: Should we reach out to Matt re: (e.g.,) user experience discussions?
13:55:21 <Ian> AdamR: A colleague yesterday suggested that these look similar
13:56:49 <Ian> ACTION: Ian to reach out to Marcos
13:57:25 <Ian> Topic: Next meeting
13:57:27 <Ian> 16 Nov
13:57:37 <Ian> rrsagent, make minutes
13:57:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/11/02-apps-minutes.html Ian
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13:57:53 <Ian> rrsagent, set logs public
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