14:55:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:55:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/10/27-lvtf-irc
14:55:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:55:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:55:56 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:55:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:55:57 <trackbot> Date: 27 October 2016
14:56:03 <shawn> present: Shawn, Wayne
14:56:37 <Glenda> Glenda has joined #lvtf
14:58:29 <shawn> present+ Glenda, JohnR
15:00:04 <shawn> present+ Scott
15:00:28 <ScottM> ScottM has joined #lvtf
15:01:07 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #lvtf
15:01:18 <shawn> scribe: Wayne
15:01:26 <shawn> chair: Andrew
15:01:39 <shawn> present+ AndrewAWK
15:02:21 <JohnRochford_> JohnRochford_ has joined #lvtf
15:02:30 <Wayne> present+ Wayne
15:02:32 <AWK> AWK has joined #lvtf
15:02:45 <AWK> zakim, agenda?
15:02:45 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:02:47 <Zakim> 3. Using User Settings – discussion [from AWK]
15:02:51 <AWK> +AWK
15:02:53 <AWK> Chair: AWK
15:03:41 <AWK> agenda+ https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Tracking_Success_Criteria_Progress
15:04:19 <JohnRochford_> present+ JohnRochford
15:04:42 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 4
15:04:43 <Zakim> agendum 4. "https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Tracking_Success_Criteria_Progress" taken up [from AWK]
15:05:18 <Wayne> Glenda: Has been working on contrast for interactive images.
15:08:29 <Wayne> Andrew: On hover, On Mouse over will it work on mobile. Have information but not technology specific.
15:09:41 <Wayne> Glenda:  The word hover is mouse independent term. Phones have a gesture  for hover, or close contact.
15:09:55 <Wayne> Andrew: We make sure to look into more.
15:11:28 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_On_Hover
15:13:26 <ScottM> +q
15:13:36 <AWK> ack s
15:14:56 <Wayne> ScottM: The problem is that things like tooltips hides the content. The tooltip hides what you need.
15:16:42 <Wayne> Andrew: We have a short name metadata. That talks about the problem in reverse. You don't want previously visible content hidden by tooltips.
15:18:08 <AWK> Current SC text: Hidden content that is necessary for understanding is available using any available input method
15:18:35 <Wayne> JohnR: We want to rewrite the content so that it blocks obscuring.
15:21:41 <Wayne> Glenda: When you land on a tootip it obscures the target of the landing.
15:22:36 <Wayne> JohnR: Suggensts: Information  when apparent via hover, does not obscure underlying content.
15:23:58 <Wayne> Glenda: Two cases the content obscures content
15:24:48 <Wayne> Andrew: The pointer icon seems to be an icon issue, and it is out of scope for 2.1
15:27:20 <Wayne> Wayne: Content that becomes visible on hover, does not obscure target content
15:27:38 <AWK> Content that is presented visually in response to pointer events may not obscure other information unless the user is able to [something]
15:28:32 <JohnRochford_> Just changed it to "Content that appears on hover should not obscure the triggering element."
15:33:01 <Wayne> Andrew: We need an escape clause. When the user can avoid it...
15:33:08 <Glenda> Here is a sample page from UMN on obscured tooltips http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/obscured_tooltip_on_hover/test.html
15:36:09 <Wayne> Andrew: We do not want prevent the hover events altogether we need specific cases that can be referenced.
15:36:32 <Wayne> ScottM: Focus tracking is a problem.
15:38:02 <Wayne> q+
15:40:33 <AWK> In Safari on Mac it looks like the the browser tooltip is based on the a set distance from the pointer "point" and doesn't acknowledge the change in icon size
15:41:29 <Wayne> JohnR: Thinks that element is more approprriante.
15:43:00 <JohnRochford_> Statement now is "Content that appears on hover should not obscure the triggering element or other content."
15:44:47 <Wayne> Group: We will clip some examples of the problem.
15:44:47 <AWK> Wayne and others will find examples of tooltips and other hovering content interfering with operation of links/controls
15:46:01 <AWK> RESOLUTION: Need more information and examples on https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Metadata_On_Hover to hone the SC text.
15:47:07 <AWK> TOPIC: Reflow test case
15:47:32 <AWK> Wayne: Goal is to get a list of the elements in the correct reading order so they can be put into a single column if desired
15:47:54 <JohnRochford_> Wayne: (About reflow) Can we get a listing of elements so we can change reading order?
15:48:01 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Reflow_to_Single_Column
15:56:34 <AWK> AWK and Glenda seeing differences in Mac/Chrome
15:56:53 <AWK> Need to figure out if this fails 1.3.2 or if we need something new in WCAG 2.1
15:58:15 <AWK> Need to get some clarification from Alastair
15:58:22 <JohnRochford_> Gotta go, folks.
16:01:03 <AWK> related WCAG issue: https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/83 (was closed due to no one engaging on it)
16:03:59 <AWK> TOPIC: Pre element
16:04:34 <AWK> reading code examples written with pre element is very hard
16:05:27 <AWK> pre causes problems with wrapping
16:07:31 <AWK> one solution is to have people use the code element
16:10:54 <AWK> AWK: perhaps this is a 1.3.1 issue and we need a technique?
16:15:32 <Glenda> q+
16:15:48 <AWK> ack w
16:15:58 <AWK> ack gl
16:16:33 <Glenda> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Contrast_%28Minimum%29
16:16:36 <AWK> TOPIC: Interactive element contrast minimum
16:16:51 <Wayne> Glenda: We look at interactive element contrast minimum
16:18:02 <Wayne> ...: How do I make this testable? Add to 1.4.3. It would be better add a new criterion.
16:19:00 <AWK> The visual presentation of important (non-text) information in an interactive image has a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1.
16:19:26 <AWK> The visual presentation of form field borders, focus indicators, and selected indicators has a contrast ratio of at least 4.5:1, except for the following:
16:23:18 <Wayne> Glenda: Focus indicators etc. should have 4.5:1 or 3:1 as appropriate according to size.
16:23:43 <Wayne> .. For exampe 3px is wider than 18pt stroke.
16:34:13 <Wayne> AWK: Input for no border. You need to have some border on controls. Complaint: when the fields are invisible.
16:34:38 <Wayne> present
16:34:45 <Wayne> zakim, present
16:34:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'present', Wayne
16:34:53 <AWK> present+ Wayne
16:35:03 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:35:03 <Zakim> Present: Shawn, Wayne, Glenda, JohnR, Scott, AndrewAWK, AWK, JohnRochford
16:35:23 <AWK> present- AndrewAWK
16:35:24 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
16:35:24 <Zakim> Present: Shawn, Wayne, Glenda, JohnR, Scott, AWK, JohnRochford
16:36:18 <AWK> RESOLUTION: Glenda to integrate a few more comments, e.g. a requirement for an apparent border
16:36:25 <AWK> Trackbot, end meeting
16:36:25 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:36:25 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Shawn, Wayne, Glenda, JohnR, Scott, AndrewAWK, AWK, JohnRochford
16:36:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:36:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/10/27-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
16:36:34 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:36:34 <RRSAgent> I see no action items