IRC log of dpub on 2016-10-10

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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be dpub
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ok, trackbot
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Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:54:28 [trackbot]
Date: 10 October 2016
15:54:30 [ivan]
Chair: Tzviya
15:54:52 [ivan]
15:55:07 [ivan]
ivan has changed the topic to: agenda 2016-10-10:>
15:55:51 [ivan]
Regrets: Vlad, David_Wood, Karen, Alan, Daniel
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15:57:10 [George]
Ivan, you are very faint; I am on a land line.
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15:58:47 [HeatherF]
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15:58:58 [HeatherF]
present+ Heather_Flanagan
15:58:58 [ivan]
15:59:09 [dauwhe_]
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16:00:02 [leonardr]
present+ Leonard_Rosenthol
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16:00:46 [laudrain]
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present+ Charles_LaPierre
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16:02:27 [tzviya]
scribenick: laudrain
16:02:33 [rdeltour]
16:02:33 [ayla_stein]
16:02:47 [tzviya]
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16:02:54 [laudrain]
Minutes : no comments
16:02:58 [pkra]
present+ Peter Krautzberger
16:02:59 [dauwhe__]
present+ dauwhe
16:03:01 [laudrain]
Minutes approved
16:03:18 [laudrain]
Ivan : message from Karen
16:03:46 [cmaden2]
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reminder to join Felix at Franfurt bookfair booth
16:03:53 [ivan]
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16:04:17 [laudrain]
small slider : call for comment
16:04:39 [Bill_Kasdorf]
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16:04:51 [Bill_Kasdorf]
present+ Bill_Kasdorf
16:04:58 [brady_duga]
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present+ duga
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16:05:17 [cmaden2]
present+ Chris_Maden
16:05:23 [garth]
present+ garth
16:05:25 [laudrain]
next week : meeting cancelled
16:05:43 [laudrain]
24th October next meeting
16:06:00 [garth]
16:06:15 [tzviya]
16:06:16 [laudrain]
New branch for UCR docuement from Leonard
16:07:06 [bjdmeest]
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Present+ Ben_De_Meester
16:07:23 [laudrain]
Leonard : goal of that banch : remove duplicates
16:07:35 [david_stroup]
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and cleaning, merging related things
16:08:17 [laudrain]
grammar cleaning, phrases tagged in issue tracker
16:08:46 [dauwhe_]
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16:08:55 [laudrain]
nothing contreversial added, and not in my own opinions
16:09:20 [tzviya]
16:10:14 [laudrain]
ivan raised issues, let’s start with
16:11:35 [laudrain]
ivan : general things, requirements very close or identical
16:11:52 [laudrain]
Leonard added Ivan suggestions
16:12:09 [tzviya]
ivan's comments:
16:12:30 [laudrain]
ivan : to be discussed : issue on versioning 4.1
16:13:02 [laudrain]
didn’t understand the first phrase
16:13:18 [laudrain]
what do we mean by « versioning »?
16:13:26 [tzviya]
16:14:00 [laudrain]
in section 4.1 Distribuiton and Versioning
16:14:04 [leonardr]
16:14:21 [laudrain]
vesrion as a publisher.
16:14:34 [laudrain]
16:14:59 [tzviya]
ack le
16:15:16 [laudrain]
Leonard : another issue with archiving versioning
16:16:02 [Bill_Kasdorf]
+1 to consider distribution and versioning as separate issues
16:16:21 [Bill_Kasdorf]
16:16:31 [laudrain]
Tzviya : publisher need to update a book an develpment language because a new release
16:17:00 [tzviya]
ack bi
16:17:16 [laudrain]
in digital publication, no new publicaiton for that, a minor update just editing a minor version number
16:17:24 [ayla_stein]
16:17:31 [laudrain]
BillK : separate versioning from distribution
16:17:45 [leonardr]
16:17:54 [tzviya]
ack le
16:18:03 [laudrain]
in archiving, an authoritative version is important
16:18:04 [ayla_stein]
+1 Bill
16:18:55 [laudrain]
Leonard : minor updates doesn’t change the canonical identifier but a change of a chapter change the identifier
16:19:04 [tzviya]
in scientific publishing, the version of record is very important
16:19:17 [laudrain]
BillK : 2 classes of changes : updates and corrections
16:19:53 [ivan]
16:19:54 [laudrain]
Leonard : versioning and uniqueness from a publisher point of view
16:20:07 [tzviya]
ack iv
16:20:22 [laudrain]
Tzviya : several point of view on that subject among publishers
16:21:16 [laudrain]
Ivan: separate between changes done by the publishers from annotation, but identical from the user’s point of view
16:21:32 [laudrain]
terms meaining different things in the community
16:21:59 [laudrain]
for instance : a new version in CSV, in Git
16:22:50 [laudrain]
Tzviya: same issue also on updates and corrections
16:22:52 [Bill_Kasdorf]
16:23:17 [laudrain]
Ivan: req 18 : does not make sense
16:23:55 [laudrain]
Leonard: see also 3.8 that sorts it
16:23:59 [ayla_stein]
would it be possible to have definitions of "version" in different sections of the document?
16:24:10 [tzviya]
ack bi
16:24:21 [laudrain]
Ivan: there should be a way of tracking changes
16:25:12 [laudrain]
BillK: a stable ID that doesn’t change in EPUB across minor correction, plus a time stamp
16:25:31 [laudrain]
Ivan: it goes to implementation direction
16:25:41 [laudrain]
BillK: is it the same thing?
16:25:58 [rdeltour]
rdeltour: can we use the word "edition"?
16:26:08 [laudrain]
Tzviya: we need the word version to something else
16:26:18 [tzviya]
16:26:20 [laudrain]
Ivan: do we need to keep 4.1?
16:26:34 [laudrain]
BillK: verioning is done elsewhere?
16:26:46 [rdeltour]
16:26:52 [garth]
16:26:54 [tzviya]
ack rd
16:27:00 [laudrain]
Ivan: essentialy « I should be able to track changes »
16:27:23 [laudrain]
Romain: « track changes » mean a lot in software dev
16:27:37 [laudrain]
can we use teh word « edition » ?
16:27:42 [laurentlemeur]
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16:27:43 [tzviya]
ack ga
16:27:46 [laudrain]
Tzviya: means a lot 2
16:28:44 [leonardr]
16:28:55 [laudrain]
Garth: package version isn’t changed by the distribution
16:29:14 [laudrain]
Brady: doesn’t matter if all is in the same package
16:29:30 [ayla_stein]
so maybe the method of distribution?
16:29:31 [HeatherF]
a publisher, a librarian, or a standards developer
16:29:38 [tzviya]
ack le
16:29:57 [laudrain]
Leonard to fix versioning
16:30:35 [laudrain]
current examples: 2 and 3, do we agree they stand in the same area?
16:30:50 [laudrain]
BillK: they are different
16:31:10 [laudrain]
Ivan: the 2nd work if we mean what Garth said
16:31:35 [laudrain]
Leonard: they don’t say anything on package
16:32:08 [laudrain]
Passing along isn’t necesseraly in the package way
16:32:43 [laudrain]
Tzviya: keep these 2 examples to be rewritten
16:33:19 [laudrain]
Ivan: one more thing in referencing to
16:33:32 [laudrain]
For accessibility metadata
16:33:45 [Bill_Kasdorf]
s/they are different/example 3 contains two separate issues
16:34:01 [laudrain]
George or Romain: vocabulary
16:34:22 [laudrain]
Charles: it is in progress
16:34:59 [laudrain]
Avneesh: formal definition in the wiki page
16:35:15 [tzviya]
16:35:38 [laudrain]
Leonard: some clean up in the next round
16:36:16 [laudrain]
Tzviya: definition of a PWP? Portable or Packaged
16:36:28 [ivan]
16:36:32 [tzviya]
ack iv
16:36:40 [tzviya]
16:37:29 [laudrain]
ivan: Web publication and Packaged Web Publication? in the minutes of TPAC meeting
16:38:22 [HeatherF]
second day more than the first
16:38:26 [laudrain]
Garth: in the second day
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16:38:43 [HeatherF]
first day was sort of hashing things out, second day was bringing it all together.
16:39:12 [ivan]
16:39:30 [ivan]
"A Web Publication is a collection of one or more Web resources in standard formats, organized together into a uniquely identifiable grouping."
16:39:59 [clapierre]
Here are the other two pending accessibility Pending metadata properties. and
16:40:01 [laudrain]
Ivan: workng definitions (see link above)
16:40:01 [leonardr]
+1 to @ivan
16:40:13 [leonardr]
16:40:34 [tzviya]
ack le
16:41:13 [liam]
16:41:20 [laudrain]
Leonard: great def, we want also games
16:42:02 [laudrain]
Tzviya: hope for a very braod umbrella spec, and also EPUB4 in it
16:42:23 [tzviya]
16:42:25 [laudrain]
Ivan: that introduction can be used as a start
16:42:35 [dauwhe__]
16:43:06 [laudrain]
Leonard: next issue capabiliies of discovery under security
16:43:37 [laudrain]
permission APIs, preserving integrity
16:43:41 [tzviya]
ack da
16:44:53 [laudrain]
Dave: section 2.6 on collections, usage examples not clear that it describes collection of Web collections
16:45:01 [ivan]
16:45:06 [laudrain]
just collecting some stuff
16:45:33 [laudrain]
Leonard: old version « bunch of stuff orgnised together"
16:45:50 [laudrain]
conceptual publicaiotn gathered togethre
16:45:57 [laudrain]
Now in a logicla unit
16:46:08 [laudrain]
16:46:08 [tzviya]
ack iv
16:46:49 [laudrain]
Dave: the 2nb usage, multiple paths to the publication
16:46:58 [tzviya]
16:47:25 [laudrain]
Ivan: is it a fondamental req?
16:47:40 [leonardr]
16:47:52 [laudrain]
open the door to meta publication
16:48:02 [Bill_Kasdorf]
16:48:13 [laudrain]
Tzviya: this was the issue I wanted to raise
16:48:41 [laudrain]
We need to clarify what that means
16:48:56 [tzviya]
ack le
16:49:02 [laudrain]
Dave: metadata betwenn the pub and the content itself
16:49:42 [ivan]
16:50:03 [tzviya]
ack bi
16:50:03 [laudrain]
Leanard: from the doc perspective : combining multiple sources together to a new document
16:50:26 [dauwhe__]
16:50:43 [laudrain]
BiilK: fundamental definition : publicaiotn is a recource of resources
16:50:49 [tzviya]
ack iv
16:51:34 [laudrain]
Ivan: this is part of the production of a publication
16:51:47 [tzviya]
ack da
16:51:59 [laudrain]
nuke the whole thing
16:52:11 [leonardr]
I agree with @Bill_Kasdorf and @Ivan - a publication is just another type of resource. And would be fine nuking the section.
16:52:24 [laudrain]
Dave: individual items need to be a publication?
16:52:42 [laudrain]
BillK it can be but not necessarily
16:52:48 [ivan]
16:53:04 [laudrain]
Dave: complicaiotn will be a mess
16:53:27 [laudrain]
Ivan: nuclear option
16:53:40 [clapierre]
+1 Nuke it
16:53:58 [garth]
Remove section 2.6
16:54:09 [laudrain]
Tzviay metadata associated with sub resources
16:54:18 [HeatherF]
Yay for Leonard!
16:54:30 [laudrain]
Tzviya: thank you Leonard!
16:54:33 [leonardr]
you are welcome.
16:55:01 [laudrain]
Tzviya: document reorg
16:55:02 [ivan]
16:55:05 [leonardr]
yes, some of them are very good, @Ivan
16:55:06 [tzviya]
ack iv
16:55:41 [laudrain]
Ivan: one more task to do
16:56:21 [laudrain]
discussion with Markus, « there is a use case we should add »
16:56:47 [leonardr]
16:57:06 [laudrain]
example: for the packaged version, a way to ensure integrity of the package
16:57:10 [tzviya]
ack le
16:57:21 [laudrain]
after Heather is done with teh cleanup
16:57:34 [laudrain]
16:58:00 [laudrain]
Heather: get started this week, something for the 24
16:58:04 [leonardr]
16:58:10 [tzviya]
ack le
16:58:52 [laudrain]
Ivan: merging Leonard branch is the simpliest thing to do
16:59:22 [laudrain]
Tzviya: Charles any objection
16:59:37 [laudrain]
Charles: i’ll take a look after the merge
16:59:54 [laudrain]
Leonard: i’ll do it
17:00:01 [ivan]
17:00:04 [tzviya]
ack iv
17:00:52 [laudrain]
Ivan: we will ping Markus when the doc is in review
17:01:03 [ivan]
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17:01:58 [ivan]
rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate ivan
17:02:08 [ivan]
trackbot, end telcon
17:02:08 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
17:02:08 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been tzviya, Heather_Flanagan, ivan, Leonard_Rosenthol, laudrain, Charles_LaPierre, rdeltour, ayla_stein, Peter, Krautzberger, dauwhe,
17:02:11 [Zakim]
... Bill_Kasdorf, duga, Chris_Maden, garth, Ben_De_Meester, liam
17:02:16 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:02:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate trackbot
17:02:17 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
17:02:17 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items