IRC log of tt on 2016-09-29

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/29-tt-irc
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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ok, trackbot
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
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Date: 29 September 2016
14:00:05 [nigel]
Present: Nigel
14:00:08 [nigel]
chair: Nigel
14:00:11 [nigel]
scribeNick: nigel
14:01:43 [nigel]
Present+ Glenn
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14:02:15 [nigel]
Topic: This Meeting
14:03:21 [nigel]
Present+ Pierre
14:05:22 [nigel]
nigel: We have a few topics to cover today: i18n review, IANA registration, next F2F,
14:05:51 [nigel]
... WebVTT meeting planning, TTML2 Pull Requests etc.
14:06:12 [nigel]
nigel: AOB?
14:06:18 [nigel]
group: No
14:06:35 [nigel]
Topic: Profile Registry
14:06:44 [nigel]
action-477?
14:06:44 [trackbot]
action-477 -- Philippe Le Hégaret to Progress the update to ttml media type registration with iana -- due 2016-09-15 -- PENDINGREVIEW
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http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/477
14:06:54 [nigel]
nigel: This is pending review - the IANA page at http://www.iana.org/assignments/media-types/application/ttml+xml
14:07:04 [nigel]
... shows the updated media type registration as submitted.
14:07:30 [nigel]
nigel: That's good news, so I think we can close off this piece of work now. Thanks to everyone for their input here.
14:07:36 [nigel]
close action-477
14:07:36 [trackbot]
Closed action-477.
14:08:18 [nigel]
nigel: I think we can remove this agenda item from future meetings.
14:08:58 [nigel]
Topic: TTML2 pull requests etc
14:09:40 [nigel]
nigel: r12a has fixed up the TTML2 repo to notify the www-international mailing list when
14:09:52 [nigel]
... the i18n label is applied to an issue, or when such an issue is closed.
14:12:43 [nigel]
... I went along to the i18n meeting and gave them an orientation introduction to TTML2.
14:12:58 [nigel]
... That seemed to be very helpful to them. Dae was there also. He did say that there would
14:13:15 [nigel]
... be one issue to be raised on TTML2 which if I remember correctly is to do with non-combining
14:13:29 [nigel]
... glyphs that need to be specifically aligned. I'm not sure of the details.
14:13:58 [nigel]
glenn: There are some such things in Thai but I think Unicode handles them. It would be
14:14:31 [nigel]
... good to prompt Dae to add that issue. There are also line break issues that I don't believe
14:14:41 [nigel]
... need any extra handling.
14:14:54 [nigel]
... That would be true for all the Indic scripts not just Thai.
14:15:02 [nigel]
Present+ Thierry
14:16:15 [nigel]
nigel: I've asked if we need to go back and add the i18n label to already closed issues.
14:17:46 [nigel]
nigel: So they have access to the ED now and are expecting a WD in a month or so for a proper review.
14:18:35 [nigel]
nigel: We have comparison operators in the condition syntax that we may need to be careful with.
14:18:59 [nigel]
glenn: That's a good point, I have to go back to see how I defined that operator function, if it's just on numeric values or also strings.
14:19:02 [nigel]
nigel: I think it's on anything.
14:19:28 [nigel]
glenn: Then we should say something about that for sure. Also to include equality and relational operators.
14:19:53 [nigel]
nigel: r12a has just responded - he doesn't want us to add labels to closed issues.
14:20:40 [nigel]
action-480?
14:20:40 [trackbot]
action-480 -- Thierry Michel to Request schedule time for horizontal review of ttml2 -- due 2016-09-26 -- OPEN
14:20:40 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/480
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14:21:30 [nigel]
nigel: Thierry, what's the status on this action?
14:21:51 [tm]
reconnecting hold on ...
14:23:44 [nigel]
thierry: I've done i18n, and have started to look at the security and privacy questionnaire,
14:24:06 [nigel]
... so I intend to fill that in and send the draft to the WG.
14:24:29 [nigel]
... There's also WAI, but that has no special questionnaire. i18n is starting a questionnaire.
14:24:34 [nigel]
... I will provide the links to this group.
14:24:43 [nigel]
... I'll let you know by tomorrow about those.
14:25:05 [nigel]
... For WAI we have to go through the regular process which is to ask for review by email,
14:25:20 [nigel]
... which is to be done. Shall I just send a heads up for the new WD?
14:26:03 [nigel]
nigel: Please send the heads up in advance of the WD in November.
14:26:19 [nigel]
thierry: Okay I will do that, and we can start handling the privacy questionnaire right now.
14:26:31 [nigel]
... That's new process so we may be first to experience that.
14:26:38 [nigel]
nigel: Thank you!
14:28:10 [nigel]
nigel: Let's move on to pull requests...
14:28:23 [nigel]
glenn: My only requirement on the pull requests is that unless I delegate a task for merging then
14:28:40 [nigel]
... I will be the one to merge, in case I need to make editorial changes. More significant changes
14:28:53 [nigel]
... I will make on the appropriate branch for the pull request for review before merging.
14:29:21 [nigel]
nigel: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/184 - I updated this based on some feedback.
14:29:27 [nigel]
... This is Add ttp:safeCropArea.
14:30:03 [nigel]
nigel: I fixed the validation error and added the parameter to the schema.
14:30:19 [nigel]
... From my perspective this is good to merge but there are no review comments yet.
14:34:06 [nigel]
glenn: I plan to make some changes there - probably a branch on your branch with a PR to
14:34:13 [nigel]
... update your branch, to segregate my modifications.
14:34:16 [nigel]
nigel: Sounds like a good idea.
14:34:48 [nigel]
nigel: https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/185 Augment use of lwsp in ttp:{content,processor}Profiles (#170).
14:35:01 [nigel]
glenn: I take your comments well on that one - it sounds like we can simplify things there.
14:35:11 [nigel]
... I need to review the fine points and make sure it doesn't break anything we have right
14:35:22 [nigel]
... now and achieves the effect I was trying to achieve in the first place.
14:36:14 [nigel]
glenn: On this point, while it's true that white space gets normalized in attributes, the
14:36:29 [nigel]
... syntax still needs to support a single space character.
14:36:39 [nigel]
nigel: That's my proposal - and to remove leading and trailing whitespace.
14:40:17 [nigel]
glenn: We need to be sensitive to the fact that TTML1 does support LWSP now.
14:40:31 [nigel]
... At the worst case we could add an informative note that the processing of XML normalized
14:40:46 [nigel]
... attribute values may limit the type of character that could appear in linear white space.
14:40:50 [nigel]
nigel: Yes, ok.
14:41:05 [nigel]
glenn: I need to go back and look at the abbreviated information set to see if we require the
14:41:21 [nigel]
... same processing of white space for non-XML formats, in other words do we prescribe that
14:41:33 [nigel]
... that occurs on constructing the information set. If you're not using XML and you're
14:41:45 [nigel]
... constructing the information set for e.g. JSON then it won't have the same whitespace
14:41:48 [nigel]
... normalization.
14:44:02 [nigel]
nigel: I was hoping that we could allow processors to be simplified by applying a single
14:44:15 [nigel]
... normalization process that results in no leading or trailing spaces and all separators being
14:44:31 [nigel]
... exactly one #x20 character, but I see that may already not be possible.
14:45:03 [nigel]
glenn: In TTV I'm using escaped character references in test material to insert white spaces
14:45:11 [nigel]
... like tab, newline, carriage return etc.
14:46:04 [nigel]
glenn: The way we can handle this pull request is to accept it as is and you could file a new
14:46:15 [nigel]
... issue pointing out that it might be desirable to transition to the new approach you are
14:46:26 [nigel]
... suggesting if possible, because the current PR satisfies the original issue as described.
14:46:41 [nigel]
nigel: Ok, let's do that. I'll update the PR after this meeting and add an issue.
14:47:49 [nigel]
nigel: The last open pull request for now is https://github.com/w3c/ttml2/pull/177
14:48:22 [nigel]
nigel: I think the action is for Glenn to merge this and raise issues as described on the pull request.
14:48:31 [nigel]
glenn: Yes, I've got that.
14:49:14 [nigel]
nigel: Are there any other issues that anyone else can take?
14:49:34 [nigel]
glenn: There are a variety of editorial notes that say e.g. "add an example" for a new style.
14:49:43 [nigel]
... If anyone could spend time doing that then it would be very useful.
14:50:15 [nigel]
nigel: Some of those might best be done with TTPE so it would be helpful if someone who
14:50:24 [nigel]
... is used to that could use it to generate them.
14:50:39 [nigel]
glenn: Yes, it might also be a good homework exercise if someone else could create the
14:50:47 [nigel]
... example TTML content.
14:51:06 [nigel]
... I know that Rohit and Dae have looked at this a bit.
14:52:06 [nigel]
nigel: In the i18n meeting they did ask for examples of use cases for the new style attributes,
14:52:30 [nigel]
... and Dae said he would be able to provide those, so this might be one activity that fulfils
14:52:33 [nigel]
... two actions.
14:52:49 [nigel]
glenn: There are also other things like padding and border, where it would be useful to have
14:52:58 [nigel]
... example content that demonstrates those in use, where we are expanding the role.
14:53:07 [nigel]
nigel: Okay I can have a look at that.
14:54:21 [nigel]
Topic: WebVTT review feedback
14:55:48 [nigel]
nigel: Thierry has pushed things forward on this - the proposal is for David to participate
14:56:05 [nigel]
... in a scheduled TTWG meeting to review the wide review comment status, alongside Simon
14:56:22 [nigel]
... and Silvia. That will not be until after 20th October, date to be confirmed.
14:56:41 [nigel]
thierry: 20th October was the earliest date to allow for Silvia and David to process the comments
14:56:54 [nigel]
... in advance, so I hope there will be some kind of tagging of the issues. Then the next goal
14:57:17 [nigel]
... is to have a TTWG meeting dedicated to this. We have no date agreed for this yet. Either we
14:57:54 [nigel]
... schedule a specific call, or use a scheduled TTWG meeting. I definitely want people from
14:58:03 [nigel]
... the TTWG to join - this must not be a CG meeting.
14:58:18 [nigel]
pierre: In IMSC 1 we used a specific tool to track the comments - are we doing that here?
14:58:34 [nigel]
thierry: This was an internal tool that was meant specially for last call, it's pretty convenient
14:58:49 [nigel]
... to use to track the status of each comment, and then the nice thing about this tool is that
14:59:02 [nigel]
... it automatically provides the disposition comment. But now that LC does not exist things
14:59:27 [nigel]
... are less clear what we need to provide now. We just need to show wide review.
15:00:13 [nigel]
pierre: For IMSC 1 we used that comment even though there was no last casll.
15:00:17 [nigel]
s/casll/call
15:00:38 [nigel]
thierry: I do not know which tool will be used. Different repository and issue tracking tools
15:00:42 [nigel]
... have been used.
15:00:56 [nigel]
pierre: Whatever tool is used the same process needs to happen for WebVTT before we meet.
15:01:06 [nigel]
... I don't want to meet up without a clear record of the comments and disposition.
15:03:22 [nigel]
nigel: I agree, we need a clear process and documentation that we can understand as the WG.
15:03:37 [nigel]
... I also would note that there is enough substantive change on the current ED compared to
15:03:54 [nigel]
... the previous WD that a new WD is needed with a new opportunity for wide review comment.
15:05:05 [nigel]
thierry: I understand the concern - we can put the date on hold and wait until we see the
15:05:19 [nigel]
... output of this meeting. I am also fine with investing time in tracking this thing with
15:05:29 [nigel]
... whatever tool we use but I need to have input from the CG at least for what has been
15:05:41 [nigel]
... done already. I also agree that we need to publish a new WD because there are some very
15:05:57 [nigel]
... substantive new features like region, CSS etc that need to be reviewed definitely.
15:06:16 [nigel]
Topic: Next F2F
15:06:55 [nigel]
nigel: There's been a request for a F2F and a proposal to hold it at the BBC - I'm happy to host this,
15:07:16 [nigel]
... and the next step is to pick a suitable date - February 2017 was mentioned.
15:09:44 [nigel]
nigel: Please let me know any specific date requests - I'm not sure what else is planned around that time.
15:10:31 [nigel]
nigel: We're out of time for today so I'll carry that forward to next week. Thanks everyone. [adjoiurns meeting]
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/29-tt-minutes.html nigel
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s/For IMSC 1 we used that comment even though/For IMSC 1 we used that tool even though
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s/... done/thierry: done
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/29-tt-minutes.html nigel
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ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
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rrsagent, make minutes
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I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/29-tt-minutes.html nigel
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