IRC log of wcag-act on 2016-09-28
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:10:24 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wcag-act
- 14:10:24 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-irc
- 14:10:26 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 14:10:28 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 14:10:28 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 14:10:29 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
- 14:10:29 [trackbot]
- Date: 28 September 2016
- 14:10:54 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Failure techniques proposal
- 14:11:06 [shadi]
- agenda?
- 14:11:23 [shadi]
- zakim, clear agenda
- 14:11:23 [Zakim]
- agenda cleared
- 14:11:42 [agarrison]
- agarrison has joined #wcag-act
- 14:11:55 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Failure techniques proposal
- 14:12:01 [Wilco]
- agenda+ Requirement documents
- 14:12:10 [Wilco]
- agenda+ ISO test frameworks
- 14:12:17 [Wilco]
- agenda+ ACT Framework Requirements
- 14:13:16 [agarrison]
- what is the password for joining webex?
- 14:13:31 [Ryladog]
- act
- 14:13:39 [cpandhi]
- cpandhi has joined #wcag-act
- 14:13:40 [shadi]
- s/act/
- 14:15:04 [shadi]
- present: Wilco, Katie, MaryJo, Charu
- 14:15:15 [Wilco]
- zakim take up next
- 14:15:22 [Wilco]
- zakim, take up next
- 14:15:22 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Wilco
- 14:15:39 [shadi]
- queue=
- 14:15:56 [Wilco]
- zakim, take up next
- 14:15:56 [Zakim]
- I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Wilco
- 14:16:01 [shadi]
- q?
- 14:16:11 [shadi]
- ack shadi
- 14:16:18 [shadi]
- zakim, take up next
- 14:16:18 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Failure techniques proposal" taken up [from Wilco]
- 14:16:29 [shadi]
- present+ Alistair
- 14:17:33 [shadi]
- Wilco: had good discussion at TPAC last week
- 14:17:53 [shadi]
- ...discussion came up of relationship of ACT to Failures in WCAG
- 14:18:04 [shadi]
- ...exchange with Katie on the mailing list
- 14:18:23 [shadi]
- ...think could replace Failures with ACT rules
- 14:18:25 [Wilco]
- q?
- 14:18:27 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:18:44 [shadi]
- ack me
- 14:20:10 [cpandhi]
- +1
- 14:20:22 [shadi]
- Shadi: don't think we should discuss keeping or replacing Failures
- 14:20:38 [shadi]
- ...it is part of the WCAG 2.0 model and up to the WG to decide
- 14:20:54 [shadi]
- ...but agree that we should align our ACT rules to the Failures
- 14:21:04 [agarrison]
- q+
- 14:21:57 [Ryladog]
- Ryladog has joined #wcag-act
- 14:23:33 [shadi]
- ...so that the "testing procedure" part of the Failures could be replaced by ACT rules
- 14:23:34 [Wilco]
- ack ag
- 14:23:43 [shadi]
- Wilco: would there be a 1:1 mapping?
- 14:24:12 [shadi]
- Shadi: not sure if always 1:1 but we should try to translate documented Failures into ACt rules
- 14:24:32 [shadi]
- Alistair: sent email on Monday about this
- 14:24:35 [jemma]
- jemma has joined #wcag-act
- 14:24:56 [shadi]
- ...suggested replacing "test procedures" too
- 14:25:20 [agarrison]
- q-
- 14:26:04 [shadi]
- Wilco: looks like agreement
- 14:26:16 [shadi]
- ...so align ACT rules with WCAG Failures?
- 14:26:32 [shadi]
- Alistair: align with the "testing procedures"
- 14:26:40 [shadi]
- present+ Jemma
- 14:27:06 [shadi]
- ...including relevant context information
- 14:27:12 [shadi]
- ...like the assumptions
- 14:29:13 [cpandhi]
- q+
- 14:29:31 [shadi]
- Shadi: agree with aligning ACT rules with "testing procedures" of Failures, so that these could be replaced by WCAG WG if they wanted to
- 14:29:38 [Ryladog]
- q+
- 14:29:40 [shadi]
- ack cp
- 14:29:44 [Wilco]
- ack cp
- 14:29:47 [shadi]
- Charu: agree as well
- 14:29:59 [shadi]
- ...focus on designing the ACT rules
- 14:30:10 [shadi]
- ...and in that we align to Failures
- 14:30:21 [shadi]
- ...the plain english aspect will be very useful
- 14:30:51 [shadi]
- ...current testing procedures are sometimes very vague and can be replaced with something more accurate
- 14:30:54 [shadi]
- ack ry
- 14:31:08 [shadi]
- Katie: not sure where the idea of replacing came from?
- 14:31:27 [shadi]
- Wilco: came from me, but agree with discussion outcome
- 14:31:55 [shadi]
- ...about aligning with "testing procedures"
- 14:32:24 [shadi]
- Katie: agree with focusing on designing the ACT rules to align with "testing procedures"
- 14:32:54 [shadi]
- ...not good to call for replacing right now until we see what we get
- 14:33:08 [shadi]
- Alistair: would be good to take that approach for the Techniques as well
- 14:33:20 [shadi]
- Wilco: agree with that
- 14:34:03 [shadi]
- ...will try to put together a small proposal as part of the requirements for the repository
- 14:34:42 [shadi]
- +1 to document this as part of the requirements
- 14:35:27 [Wilco]
- action: Wilco, document decision on failure techniques in requirement for repository
- 14:35:27 [trackbot]
- Error finding 'Wilco,'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/track/users>.
- 14:35:50 [Wilco]
- action: Wilco to document decision on failure techniques in requirement for repository
- 14:35:51 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-2 - Document decision on failure techniques in requirement for repository [on Wilco Fiers - due 2016-10-05].
- 14:36:40 [Wilco]
- zakim, take up next
- 14:36:40 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "ISO test frameworks" taken up [from Wilco]
- 14:37:07 [shadi]
- Wilco: Alistair did research
- 14:37:18 [shadi]
- Alistair: all in the email I sent to the list
- 14:37:36 [shadi]
- ...framework we are creating is probably similar to existing ones
- 14:37:52 [shadi]
- ...stuff available for software testing
- 14:38:00 [shadi]
- q+ to talk about existing W3C efforts too
- 14:38:16 [shadi]
- ...work probably closest to the acceptance testing
- 14:38:31 [shadi]
- ...there is information about how to write such tests
- 14:38:43 [shadi]
- ...helps the discussion we had at the f2f last week
- 14:39:11 [shadi]
- ...but also additional information, like "positive" or "negative" phrasing
- 14:39:36 [shadi]
- ...probably our tests are "negative" - like want to identify images without descriptions
- 14:40:21 [Wilco]
- shadi: Thanks, very helpful work. At TPAC I also looked at other testing effort at w3c.
- 14:40:34 [Wilco]
- ... there was browser testing and tools, who work on webdriver
- 14:40:51 [Wilco]
- ... also the web platform WG, they have a test effort called Web Platform Testing
- 14:41:22 [Wilco]
- ... we should look at that, build on that. Those are more focused on browser testing. It may only be partially useable, but terminology should be reused and build on
- 14:41:23 [shadi]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/wiki/Testing_Resources
- 14:41:51 [Wilco]
- ... in this page are some resources. People can add to this, to have an overview of what exists
- 14:42:08 [shadi]
- ack me
- 14:42:08 [Zakim]
- shadi, you wanted to talk about existing W3C efforts too
- 14:42:42 [shadi]
- Wilco: want to extract relevant parts from these resources
- 14:43:02 [shadi]
- Alistair: not only about what we want to take up but also about what we want to avoid
- 14:43:54 [shadi]
- Wilco: would be good to have the key take-aways
- 14:44:35 [shadi]
- ...volunteers?
- 14:44:58 [shadi]
- Alistair: how? maybe for me to do first-cut and send to the list for review?
- 14:45:05 [shadi]
- Charu: I can review
- 14:46:23 [agarrison]
- Action: Alistair to pull out relevant sections of standards docs.
- 14:46:23 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-3 - Pull out relevant sections of standards docs. [on Alistair Garrison - due 2016-10-05].
- 14:46:50 [Wilco]
- zakim, take up next
- 14:46:50 [Zakim]
- agendum 4. "ACT Framework Requirements" taken up [from Wilco]
- 14:47:17 [shadi]
- agenda?
- 14:47:22 [cpandhi]
- action: Charu to review forst cut from Alistair
- 14:47:22 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-4 - Review forst cut from alistair [on Charu Pandhi - due 2016-10-05].
- 14:47:40 [Wilco]
- topic: EIII requirements
- 14:48:31 [shadi]
- https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/track/
- 14:49:27 [Wilco]
- s/EIII/WCAG-EM
- 14:49:56 [shadi]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wcag-act/2016Sep/0022.html
- 14:50:30 [shadi]
- http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/methodology-reqs/
- 14:51:43 [shadi]
- Shadi: think structure of WCAG-EM requirements is useful
- 14:52:00 [shadi]
- ...but actual requirements may be too high-level than what we need
- 14:53:08 [agarrison]
- q+
- 14:53:14 [shadi]
- ...important to have "terminology" and "audience" definitions
- 14:53:24 [Wilco]
- ack ag
- 14:53:34 [shadi]
- ...and work from Alistair and Charu could add the details
- 14:53:40 [jemma]
- I agree with Shadi that wcag-em could be useful framework for ACT.
- 14:53:52 [shadi]
- Alistair: some definitions could be taken over, like web page states
- 14:53:57 [shadi]
- q+
- 14:54:06 [shadi]
- Wilco: agree with that
- 14:54:13 [agarrison]
- q-
- 14:54:29 [Wilco]
- ack sh
- 14:55:02 [shadi]
- Shadi: agree with Alistair
- 14:55:12 [shadi]
- ...should build on existing terms where possible
- 14:55:55 [shadi]
- ...but wasn't necessarily focusing on the terms themselves but the structure of the requirements document
- 14:56:41 [shadi]
- Wilco: anyone want to help out reviewing existing work at W3C?
- 14:56:43 [shadi]
- ...https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/conformance-testing/wiki/Testing_Resources#W3C_Groups_on_Testing
- 14:57:31 [shadi]
- Shadi: takes some searching and stuff
- 14:57:47 [shadi]
- Jemma: can help with Open Ajax Alliance work
- 14:58:05 [shadi]
- MaryJo: can look into DHS trusted tester
- 14:59:57 [shadi]
- action: shadi to get GitHub setup for Requirements editing and viewing
- 14:59:57 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-5 - Get github setup for requirements editing and viewing [on Shadi Abou-Zahra - due 2016-10-05].
- 15:00:08 [Wilco]
- action: wilco to investigate W3C testing activities for take-aways on the requirements
- 15:00:08 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-6 - Investigate w3c testing activities for take-aways on the requirements [on Wilco Fiers - due 2016-10-05].
- 15:01:16 [Wilco]
- action: wilco to work with Jemma on OAA relation to ACT
- 15:01:16 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-7 - Work with jemma on oaa relation to act [on Wilco Fiers - due 2016-10-05].
- 15:01:41 [jemma]
- Thanks everybody!
- 15:01:57 [shadi]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 15:01:57 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 15:01:57 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been Wilco, Katie, MaryJo, Charu, Alistair, Jemma
- 15:02:05 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 15:02:05 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-minutes.html trackbot
- 15:02:06 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- I see 7 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-actions.rdf :
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Wilco, document decision on failure techniques in requirement for repository [1]
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-irc#T14-35-27
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Wilco to document decision on failure techniques in requirement for repository [2]
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-irc#T14-35-50
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Alistair to pull out relevant sections of standards docs. [3]
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-irc#T14-46-23
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: Charu to review forst cut from Alistair [4]
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-irc#T14-47-22
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: shadi to get GitHub setup for Requirements editing and viewing [5]
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-irc#T14-59-57
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wilco to investigate W3C testing activities for take-aways on the requirements [6]
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-irc#T15-00-08
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: wilco to work with Jemma on OAA relation to ACT [7]
- 15:02:06 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/09/28-wcag-act-irc#T15-01-16