17:00:13 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:00:13 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/09/12-aria-apg-irc
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17:00:25 <jamesn> rrsagent, make log world
17:00:26 <mck> /invite RRSAgent #aria-apg
17:00:30 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue #12: code review guide (Ian) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/12
17:00:30 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue #54: Draft Alert Dialog or Message Dialog design pattern (Matt) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/54
17:00:30 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue 67: Develop example Accordion (CSS changes by  James) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/67
17:00:31 <jamesn> Agenda+ issue 104: Develop examples of data grids using the grid design pattern https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/104
17:00:32 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue 109: Develop example of the tree view design pattern (Jon/Jemma) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/109
17:00:35 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue 110: Develop example of menu or menubar design pattern (Jon/Jemma) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/110
17:00:37 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review status of current example development work https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Design-Patterns-Status
17:00:40 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review state of milestone plan https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestones?state=open
17:00:42 <jamesn> agenda?
17:00:59 <jamesn> zakim, clear agenda
17:00:59 <Zakim> agenda cleared
17:01:02 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue #12: code review guide (Ian) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/12
17:01:02 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue #54: Draft Alert Dialog or Message Dialog design pattern (Matt) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/54
17:01:02 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue 67: Develop example Accordion (CSS changes by  James) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/67
17:01:02 <jamesn> Agenda+ issue 104: Develop examples of data grids using the grid design pattern https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/104
17:01:04 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue 109: Develop example of the tree view design pattern (Jon/Jemma) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/109
17:01:07 <jamesn> Agenda+ Issue 110: Develop example of menu or menubar design pattern (Jon/Jemma) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/110
17:01:10 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review status of current example development work https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Design-Patterns-Status
17:01:12 <jamesn> Agenda+ Review state of milestone plan https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestones?state=open
17:01:18 <jamesn> Meeting: ARIA APG TF
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17:02:39 <jemma> thanks, James
17:04:01 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/12-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
17:04:15 <jemma> present+ JaeunJemmaKu
17:04:20 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
17:05:20 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria-apg
17:05:58 <mck> present+ matt_king
17:06:10 <jongund> present+ jongund
17:06:16 <mck> Chair matt_king
17:08:05 <jamesn> regrets+ IanPouncey
17:08:09 <jamesn> agenda?
17:08:28 <jamesn> zakim, remove item 1
17:08:28 <Zakim> agendum 1, Issue #12: code review guide (Ian) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/12, dropped
17:08:53 <jamesn> agenda?
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17:10:37 <jamesn> scribe: jamesn
17:10:54 <jamesn> zakim, take up first item
17:10:54 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up first item', jamesn
17:10:54 <bgaraventa1979> present+ Bryan_Garaventa
17:11:03 <jamesn> zakim, take up item 2
17:11:03 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Issue #54: Draft Alert Dialog or Message Dialog design pattern (Matt) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/54" taken up [from jamesn]
17:11:57 <jamesn> MK: believe i haver this in master
17:12:07 <jamesn> http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/#alertdialog
17:12:34 <jamesn> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/commit/ce69869a10eb4b453c05dc054c3685095d1efded
17:14:37 <bgaraventa1979> +q
17:14:42 <jamesn> MK: tried to give a reason why need the role - a bit weak but best could do
17:14:54 <jamesn> MK: " The <a href="#alertdialog" class="role-reference">alertdialog</a> role enables assistive technologies and browsers to distinguish alert dialogs from other dialogs so they have the option of giving them special treatment, such as playing a system alert sound."
17:15:11 <jamesn> MK: any feedback on the description section before moving on?
17:15:49 <jamesn> JN: pretty weak - not really a disaster if people use a dialog
17:15:58 <jamesn> MK: just refer to the dialog pattern
17:16:43 <jamesn> MK: roles states and properties section - only reason is to make it clean that has the alertdialog role and that it has a label. Just really did to bring it up to editorial standards
17:17:37 <jamesn> BG: general question. do you know if any change was made on dialog to say focus moves into dialog rather than on the dialog itself
17:18:26 <jamesn> "When a modal dialog opens focus goes to the first focusable item in the dialog. Determining the first focusable item must take into account elements which receive focus by default (form fields and links) as well as items which may have a tabindex attribute with a positive value."
17:20:51 <jamesn> MK: one of the primary things was to get rid of the role=document thing that used to be there
17:29:37 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:29:37 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jamesn
17:29:48 <jamesn> ack bry
17:29:53 <jamesn> ack bg
17:29:58 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:29:58 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Issue 67: Develop example Accordion (CSS changes by  James) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/67" taken up [from jamesn]
17:30:06 <jamesn> JN: no update
17:30:11 <jamesn> zakim, close this item
17:30:11 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
17:30:12 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:30:12 <Zakim> 4. issue 104: Develop examples of data grids using the grid design pattern https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/104 [from jamesn]
17:30:15 <jamesn> zakim, next item
17:30:15 <Zakim> agendum 4. "issue 104: Develop examples of data grids using the grid design pattern https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/104" taken up [from jamesn]
17:31:12 <mck> http://w3c.github.io/aria-practices/examples/grid/dataGrids.html
17:31:47 <jamesn> code is done for 1st 3 examples
17:33:00 <jamesn> JN: simplicity is a worry
17:33:13 <jamesn> MK: 1st is most bare-bones grid example you can have
17:34:56 <jamesn> MK: 2nd has sort - and the ability to edit the description
17:35:15 <jemma> minor - clicking arrow does not sort
17:36:11 <jamesn> JN: I would like to see a more realistic editable grid
17:36:35 <jamesn> MK: the idea was to do the kind of things that are more common across the web
17:37:20 <jamesn> JN: another thing that is needed is a cell with more than 1 interactive control in it
17:40:19 <jamesn> MK: things with scrollable regions
17:40:34 <jamesn> MK: last one is also good for people who want infinite scroll
17:42:09 <jamesn> BG: IHAC enterprise app - building something for universities. want a datagrid that is naviagble which supports drag and drop, selectable rows.... the ability to expand rows into another grid. supports multiple controls inside each cell
17:42:19 <jamesn> BG: literally impossible to code
17:42:42 <jamesn> MK: hope they can work hard to avoid having multiple interactive elements in 1 cell
17:43:18 <jamesn> MK: 16/17/18 JAWS have gone backwards... only time will read something in focus mode is when the element that gets focus is not a gridcell
17:43:38 <jamesn> if the element that gets focus is a linl/button etc works great
17:43:57 <jamesn> MK: Mac is better - best in safari... chrome reads the element that gets focus
17:44:08 <jamesn> chrome never gives the row/col information
17:44:36 <jamesn> MK: when navigating - not in quicknav mode... safari and VO do everything except read the column headers
17:45:19 <jamesn> MK: want to raise bugs if needed
17:48:25 <jamesn> JN: listviews having moved to grids requires multiple interactive items in a cell
17:50:40 <jamesn> JN: we have to be able to support multiple interactive items in a single cell
17:51:43 <jamesn> JN: getting nothing is insane
17:52:33 <jamesn> BG: if moving focus between them - if use activedescendent - not best practice or anything but it is possible when focus is on the gridcell
17:55:12 <jamesn> MK: believe you get a simpler interface if you seperate interactive elements
17:55:45 <jamesn> BG: some grids have some active elements in some cells and not in others
17:57:38 <jemma> +q
18:02:31 <jamesn> JN: we have a bunch of different grid requiremewnts.... multiple items in a cell, multiple scrollable areas,
18:02:32 <jamesn> http://jdevadf.oracle.com/adf-richclient-demo/faces/components/table/clickToEditTable.jspx;jsessionid=3CIfjR8F_cY0iWpPEvNZ-VeWAkFyn0w2716Y2-ckODA7itv9TPra!1093476680
18:06:22 <jamesn> MK: after TPAC will have rest of content ready
18:06:25 <jamesn> zakim, next item
18:06:25 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jamesn
18:07:31 <jamesn> Jemma: arrow needs a fix... have to click on the label
18:07:36 <jamesn> ack je
18:08:42 <jamesn> zakim, next item
18:08:42 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Issue 109: Develop example of the tree view design pattern (Jon/Jemma) https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/109" taken up [from jamesn]
18:09:04 <jamesn> MK: last week was reviewing a PR
18:09:19 <jamesn> the page that shows all the files - was crashing everything
18:10:12 <jamesn> simplified a lot of it
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18:26:02 <jamesn> JG: no aria-owns examples for tree... is that something we need
18:26:12 <jamesn> MK: would be a good place to have it
18:26:37 <jamesn> JG: need to have some examples that are as simple as possible
18:27:21 <jamesn> MK: menu menubar are on the next agenda - after TPAC
18:27:30 <jamesn> if we have a meeting on the 26th....
18:29:10 <jamesn> JG: menubar - if have a pulldown menu, with a submenu... is that a flyout?
18:29:19 <jamesn> MK: would prefer to call it a submenu
18:29:31 <jamesn> JG: seperators get focus?
18:29:34 <jamesn> MK: no
18:29:43 <jamesn> MK: design pattern makes that clear
18:30:39 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:30:39 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/12-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
18:33:24 <jamesn> zakim, please part
18:33:24 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been jongund, JamesNurthen, JaEunKu, AnnAbbott, JaeunJemmaKu, matt_king, Bryan_Garaventa
18:33:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:33:29 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:33:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/09/12-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
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