19:49:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #crypto
19:49:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/29-crypto-irc
19:49:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
19:49:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be CRYPT
19:49:18 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
19:49:19 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Cryptography Working Group Teleconference
19:49:19 <trackbot> Date: 29 August 2016
19:57:33 <ttaubert> ttaubert has joined #crypto
19:59:07 <virginie> virginie has joined #crypto
20:01:01 <virginie> anyone else on the call ?
20:01:02 <hhalpin> lets give people 5 minutes to arrive
20:01:08 <hhalpin> there's been some progress on issues and tests
20:01:18 <virginie> agenda ?
20:01:41 <wseltzer> zakim, code?
20:01:41 <Zakim> I have been told this is CRYPT
20:02:01 <wseltzer> zakim, this is T [16:01] [wseltzer(+i)] [23:team/#crypto]
20:02:01 <Zakim> got it, wseltzer
20:02:09 <wseltzer> zakim, this is +1-617-324-0000 Access Code: 643 244 026
20:02:09 <Zakim> got it, wseltzer
20:02:24 <virginie> present+ virginie
20:02:37 <markw> markw has joined #crypto
20:02:49 <wseltzer> present+ wseltzer
20:03:16 <wseltzer> present+ Tim, Rob
20:03:21 <wseltzer> zakim, who is here?
20:03:21 <Zakim> Present: wseltzer, virginie, Tim, Rob
20:03:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see markw, virginie, ttaubert, RRSAgent, jyates, hhalpin, ale, Karen, slightlyoff, tobie, deiu, Zakim, timeless, wseltzer, trackbot
20:03:26 <wseltzer> present+ hhalpin
20:03:26 <hhalpin> there's only 12 issues left
20:03:47 <wseltzer> present+ vgb
20:03:50 <hhalpin> so we could walk through - there is still the localhost issue in WebAppSec
20:03:58 <markw> present+ markw
20:04:16 <hhalpin> Is Charles on the phone?
20:04:56 <wseltzer> zakim, who is here?
20:04:56 <Zakim> Present: wseltzer, virginie, Tim, Rob, hhalpin, vgb, markw
20:04:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see markw, virginie, ttaubert, RRSAgent, hhalpin, ale, Karen, slightlyoff, tobie, deiu, Zakim, timeless, wseltzer, trackbot
20:05:16 <hhalpin> chair: Virginie
20:05:29 <vgb> vgb has joined #crypto
20:05:39 <hhalpin> scrive: hhalpin
20:05:46 <hhalpin> scribe: hhalpin
20:07:16 <hhalpin> topic: test status
20:07:23 <hhalpin> virginie: charles is not here
20:07:37 <hhalpin> hhalpin: He did wrap/unwrap and import/export
20:07:41 <wseltzer> present+ engelke
20:08:15 <hhalpin> ... I think the coverage is basically complete in principle although the tests could cover all sorts of negative cases
20:08:44 <hhalpin> topic: WebCrypto issues
20:08:52 <virginie> issues to be reviewed : https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues
20:09:07 <engelke> engelke has joined #crypto
20:09:11 <hhalpin> 23 total issues
20:09:20 <hhalpin> markw: A few more recent ones on top I haven't covered yet
20:09:20 <virginie> 6 requiring implementation : https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22needs+implementation%22
20:09:46 <hhalpin> ... we know what we want to do, but we need a textual change for those
20:10:02 <hhalpin> ... 'needs review' means we have text just need double-checking
20:10:05 <hhalpin> ... 'needs input' needs more group review
20:10:26 <virginie> need input : https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22needs+input%22
20:10:26 <hhalpin> virginie: 4 issues require input
20:10:39 <hhalpin> since we have tim, rob, and vgb makes sense to get input now!
20:10:41 <vgb> what is the blocked issue?
20:11:03 <vgb> i thought that issue is no longer relevant after PR #16?
20:11:05 <virginie> 111 https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues/111
20:11:06 <hhalpin> issue 111: Hash algorithm specification for ECDSA
20:11:17 <hhalpin> ... we set hash at time of operation
20:11:21 <RobTrace> RobTrace has joined #crypto
20:11:24 <hhalpin> ... but there is opposition to changing it
20:11:34 <hhalpin> ... so the proposal is to close as won't fix
20:11:41 <hhalpin> ... looking for JimSch
20:11:53 <hhalpin> ... and today he said it's OK
20:12:03 <hhalpin> ... so no changes needed in implementation
20:12:10 <hhalpin> issue 85
20:12:13 <virginie> https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues/85
20:12:46 <hhalpin> markw: WebIDL find which global object to get
20:12:58 <hhalpin> ... boris notes we need to specify the global, but no opinions on what it should be
20:14:11 <hhalpin> ... tim and rob, do you attach WebCrypto to a global object?
20:14:38 <hhalpin> tim: No strong opinion, but happy to take a look at it
20:14:44 <hhalpin> virginie: over the coming week?
20:15:17 <hhalpin> markw: What do browsers currently do? We'd want to specify what they currently do
20:15:55 <hhalpin> ACTION: ttaubert and RobTrace to determine what global object ot attach WebCrypto state to
20:15:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-159 - And robtrace to determine what global object ot attach webcrypto state to [on Tim Taubert - due 2016-09-05].
20:16:46 <hhalpin> https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues/30
20:16:48 <hhalpin> https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues/28
20:17:12 <virginie> issue 28 is about secure origin
20:17:44 <hhalpin> markw: Some commenters arguing against secure origin
20:18:16 <hhalpin> ... the argument could have prevented are invalid, confidentiality against passive observation although no protection against active attacker
20:18:24 <hhalpin> q+
20:18:31 <hhalpin> q- hhalpin_
20:18:54 <hhalpin> I think Eric Roman adds that its just SubtleCrypto attached to secure contexts, seems sensible
20:19:03 <hhalpin> what about localhost?
20:19:27 <hhalpin> vgb: The only thing I feel sad about it losing hashes
20:19:56 <hhalpin> ... I think SHA-256 shouldn't require a secure origin
20:20:10 <hhalpin> ... but if you want to separate key material by origin, you need to say what origin is.
20:20:46 <hhalpin> markw: Let's collect opinions - we can do that CfC
20:20:50 <virginie> q?
20:21:38 <wseltzer> https://w3c.github.io/webappsec-secure-contexts/#localhost
20:22:01 <hhalpin> engelke: 127.0.0.1 should be secure
20:22:16 <markw> https://github.com/w3c/webappsec-secure-contexts/issues/43
20:22:26 <hhalpin> "  Section 6.3 of [RFC6761] lays out the resolution of localhost. and names falling within .localhost. as special, and suggests that local resolvers SHOULD/MAY treat them specially. For better or worse, resolvers often ignore these suggestions, and will send localhost to the network for resolution in a number of circumstances. Given that uncertainty, this document errs on the conservative side by special-casing 127.0.0.1, but not localhost.?
20:23:29 <hhalpin> markw: Let's follow webappsec document
20:23:32 <hhalpin> I agree
20:23:55 <hhalpin> virginie: So we seem confident we will follow WebAppSec decision
20:24:41 <hhalpin> You could do a CfC binding to WebAppSec doc and attaching subtlecrypto
20:24:58 <hhalpin> (i.e. random numbers are fine)
20:25:33 <virginie> Proposed resolution : we resolve that the web crypto API will require secure context, and endorsing any decision related to local made by web app sec WG
20:26:01 <virginie> +1
20:26:04 <hhalpin> s/web crypto API/subtleCrypto
20:26:06 <markw> +1
20:26:08 <hhalpin> +1
20:26:24 <engelke> +1
20:27:02 <vgb> +1
20:27:04 <RobTrace> +1
20:27:26 <hhalpin> markw: Looks like just editorial work left
20:27:52 <wseltzer> RESOLVED (subject to confirmation on mailing list) the web crypto API will require secure context, and endorsing  any decision related to local made by web app sec WG
20:27:54 <virginie> Lets switch issue 26 : https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues/26
20:29:31 <virginie> recent discussions about JWK : https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-webcrypto/2016Aug/0036.html
20:29:31 <hhalpin> engelke: There was a number of issues, OpenSSL would leave off leading byte
20:29:39 <hhalpin> ... thus, issues accpeting
20:29:47 <hhalpin> ... these have been open issues for a long time
20:29:57 <hhalpin> ... not WebCrypto-specific
20:30:10 <hhalpin> ... so I think we should accept these formats
20:30:26 <hhalpin> ... the output is always interoperable
20:30:39 <hhalpin> ... the main issues is some libraries accept malformed input
20:30:42 <hhalpin> ... I'd leave it as normative
20:31:23 <hhalpin> virginie: I hear its interoeprable, some corner-cases
20:31:35 <virginie> q?
20:31:35 <hhalpin> ... I will do a CfC
20:31:46 <hhalpin> to keep all formats as normative?
20:31:58 <hhalpin> vgb: I've heard libraries are permissive
20:32:09 <hhalpin> ... so we input BER but output DER
20:32:20 <hhalpin> ... algorithm oids were an other issue
20:32:27 <hhalpin> ... these are the two issues
20:32:32 <hhalpin> engelke: These are two I know about
20:33:00 <hhalpin> vgb: So solution is you can accept any oid and must output in an interoperable manner
20:33:08 <hhalpin> q+
20:34:51 <hhalpin> I think the issue ryan was most concerned about was the algorithm ids
20:34:52 <virginie> virginie : recommends that we keep the normative description of the different format, but welcome any suggestion refining the text to map with the reality
20:35:14 <hhalpin> but if output->input round-tripping works, seems like we're fine even if input can be more permissive
20:35:41 <hhalpin> vgb: I'll look one more time at this
20:36:16 <hhalpin> Ideally, we want CfCs out by next week
20:36:20 <hhalpin> vgb: Happy to do look this week
20:36:51 <virginie> q?
20:37:05 <hhalpin> ack
20:37:10 <hhalpin> q-
20:37:28 <hhalpin> markw: Sounds fair
20:37:36 <vgb> q+
20:37:46 <hhalpin> q+
20:38:04 <hhalpin> another call in two weeks?
20:38:13 <hhalpin> vgb: issue 42
20:38:18 <virginie> https://github.com/w3c/webcrypto/issues/42
20:38:23 <hhalpin> markw: No longer blocked
20:40:01 <hhalpin> CRG accepted doc, just a few new attacks to be added and then doc updated
20:40:05 <hhalpin> q-
20:40:19 <wseltzer> s/CRG/CFRG/
20:40:31 <wseltzer> ack vgb
20:40:32 <vgb> q-
20:40:51 <wseltzer> q+
20:41:01 <wseltzer> q+ re charter extension
20:41:35 <hhalpin> lets get CfCs out by end of first week of Sept if possible
20:41:45 <hhalpin> 26th of Sept everything should be closed
20:42:31 <hhalpin> wseltzer: Group charter expires end of Sept.
20:42:45 <hhalpin> ... what proposed extension would be reasonable?
20:42:58 <hhalpin> ... requiring process wants us to do PR
20:43:06 <hhalpin> [I would ask for 2 months to be safe]
20:43:24 <hhalpin> [3 is better, just in case]
20:43:41 <hhalpin> virginie: 3 is good, 6 would be better
20:43:59 <hhalpin> wseltzer: 3 months end of Dec, 6 months into end of March
20:44:53 <hhalpin> wseltzer: Will see what we can get
20:44:58 <hhalpin> ... we're not anticpating 6 months of work
20:45:15 <hhalpin> virginie: AOB
20:45:45 <hhalpin> virginie: If folks are at TPAC, we could meet informally
20:45:50 <hhalpin> q+
20:46:03 <hhalpin> virginie: Anyone at TPAC?
20:46:06 <virginie> +1
20:46:07 <wseltzer> q-
20:46:12 <hhalpin> +1
20:46:12 <engelke> I won't be there.
20:46:20 <RobTrace> +1 - Tuesday, Wednesday
20:46:33 <wseltzer> all week
20:46:43 <vgb>  +1 - Tuesday, Wednesday
20:46:51 <markw> I will be there
20:47:19 <hhalpin> I'd say Tuesday lunch or Wednesday during breakout sessions?
20:47:25 <hhalpin> virginie: Tuesday lunch?
20:47:31 <virginie> +1
20:47:39 <markw> Sure
20:49:03 <hhalpin> Tuesday lunch informal WebCrypto meeting
20:49:17 <wseltzer> +1
20:49:49 <wseltzer> q+
20:49:58 <hhalpin> virginie: will socialize it during AC
20:50:00 <virginie> ack hhal
20:50:00 <hhalpin> q-
20:50:56 <hhalpin> wseltzer: W3C is happy to highlight the good work you have all done
20:51:02 <hhalpin> virginie: breakout session would help
20:51:12 <hhalpin> ... just one? or multiple breakouts
20:52:23 <virginie> q?
20:52:28 <virginie> ackws
20:52:30 <wseltzer> q-
20:53:25 <hhalpin> next meeting in 2 weeks
20:53:32 <ttaubert> ttaubert has left #crypto
20:53:34 <ttaubert> ttaubert has joined #crypto
20:53:40 <hhalpin> trackbot, end meeting
20:53:40 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
20:53:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been wseltzer, virginie, Tim, Rob, hhalpin, vgb, markw, engelke
20:53:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
20:53:48 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/29-crypto-minutes.html trackbot
20:53:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
20:53:49 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/29-crypto-actions.rdf :
20:53:49 <RRSAgent> ACTION: ttaubert and RobTrace to determine what global object ot attach WebCrypto state to [1]
20:53:49 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/08/29-crypto-irc#T20-15-55