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16:01:18 <keiji> present+ keiji
16:01:34 <wseltzer> zakim, code?
16:01:34 <Zakim> I have been told this is
16:01:55 <keiji> 648 986 475
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16:04:17 <JoeHallCDT> scribe: JoeHallCDT
16:04:26 <JoeHallCDT> err
16:04:33 <JoeHallCDT> scribeNick: JoeHallCDT
16:04:34 <npdoty> present+ npdoty
16:05:30 <wseltzer> present+
16:05:36 <wseltzer> present+ Christine
16:05:41 <wseltzer> zakim, who is here?
16:05:41 <Zakim> Present: wseltzer, tara, weiler, christine, Andrey_Logvinov, Barry_Leiba, marta, mikeoneill, terri, keiji, npdoty
16:05:43 <Zakim> On IRC I see gnorcie, JoeHallCDT, tara, npdoty, christine, RRSAgent, keiji, alogvinov_, anssik, TallTed, shepazu, mounir, schuki, Mek, dustinm, terri, dveditz, hadleybeeman,
16:05:43 <Zakim> ... plinss, Zakim, mkwst, wseltzer, trackbot
16:05:48 <wseltzer> present=
16:06:07 <wseltzer> present=keiji,Christine,JoeHallCDT,wseltzer
16:06:11 <wseltzer> present+ npdoty
16:06:21 <wseltzer> zakim, who is here?
16:06:21 <Zakim> Present: keiji, Christine, JoeHallCDT, wseltzer, npdoty
16:06:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see gnorcie, JoeHallCDT, tara, npdoty, christine, RRSAgent, keiji, alogvinov_, anssik, TallTed, shepazu, mounir, schuki, Mek, dustinm, terri, dveditz, hadleybeeman,
16:06:23 <Zakim> ... plinss, Zakim, mkwst, wseltzer, trackbot
16:06:33 <tara> present+
16:06:35 <npdoty> present+ craig_spiezle
16:06:45 <JoeHallCDT> present+ gnorcie
16:07:03 <wseltzer> regrets+ weiler
16:07:23 <tara> Simon if you are on WebEx - do you have audio?
16:08:28 <JoeHallCDT> christine: first agenda item, welcome and introductions
16:08:37 <christine> Agenda 1 - Welcome and introductions
16:08:48 <JoeHallCDT> Craig Spiezle of OTA introduces himself
16:09:02 <christine> Agenda 2- Wake Lock API privacy considerations
16:09:26 <JoeHallCDT> ?? was going to solicit comments from PING and compile them
16:09:38 <christine> marta from Blockchain
16:09:41 <JoeHallCDT> there is something in github, but not sure there have been much interaction with that
16:09:46 <npdoty> I don't see wake-lock in Github
16:09:52 <JoeHallCDT> s/Blockchain/Blockstream/
16:09:58 <npdoty> ah, I see the pull request now
16:10:08 <JoeHallCDT> I didn't know we had wake-lock on our plates
16:10:19 <JoeHallCDT> tara: seems to be a PR from Marta
16:10:24 <wseltzer> q+
16:10:32 <npdoty> https://github.com/martasect/ping/blob/af74fb50958671f248b521f215a9b953019ec6cc/wake-lock-privacy.md
16:10:39 <chaals> chaals has joined #privacy
16:10:40 <wseltzer> https://github.com/w3c/ping
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16:10:49 <JoeHallCDT> tara: folks from wake-lock presented at the last PING telecon
16:11:00 <JoeHallCDT> … combination of privacy and security sections in their document
16:11:10 <JoeHallCDT> … particularly interested in side channel risks
16:11:22 <JoeHallCDT> … e.g., use another API that would cause a wake
16:11:39 <JoeHallCDT> … Marta had asked if people could look at and comment, she would welcome that input
16:11:51 <JoeHallCDT> … they wanted feedback by the end of August
16:12:05 <christine> webex -  http://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=meda7c1b71d647aefa4377d4610c67648
16:12:08 <JoeHallCDT> wseltzer: how would this group like to manage it's github repo?
16:12:25 <JoeHallCDT> … we have WG groups working on specs, editors approve of PRs, anyone can comment/make PRs
16:12:55 <JoeHallCDT> … whomever authors a document could accept pull requests on a document
16:13:29 <chaals> Present+ chaals
16:13:39 <JoeHallCDT> … q: should we accept the PR from Marta to start the discussion on wake-lock
16:14:19 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: we've been doing separate repos for separate spec-like documents
16:14:30 <JoeHallCDT> … that makes sense to track issues, etc., specific to those lines of work
16:14:33 <JoeHallCDT> … sounds fine with me
16:15:02 <JoeHallCDT> Christine: anyone have problems with that? (no one did.)
16:15:03 <npdoty> can use the single PING github repo for gathering feedback documents, reviews, etc., which I think the TAG has also been doing
16:15:20 <JoeHallCDT> … we should help Marta by indicating we'll collectively take a look
16:15:42 <JoeHallCDT> … and some of us can help deal with any learning curves for github (marshal email ffeedback into the repo)
16:16:14 <JoeHallCDT> … Marta is concerned about any issues about making sure the wake-lock can be narrowed to specific applications
16:16:21 <JoeHallCDT> … please have a look and share thoughts on the email list
16:16:28 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: deadline is end of August?
16:16:44 <JoeHallCDT> tara: when the original email request came out, they said in passing they'd like comments by the end of August
16:17:12 <JoeHallCDT> christine: even if we can't reach consensus in time as PING, it's very helpful for them to have individual feedback
16:17:22 <JoeHallCDT> … so they can incorp. into securit and privacy considerations
16:17:33 <christine> Agenda item 3 - Fingerprinting guidance
16:17:53 <JoeHallCDT> christine: reached out to IETF IAB privsec program, invited them to review it and give feedback
16:18:02 <JoeHallCDT> … have they been in touch with you?
16:18:10 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: haven't heard anything back.
16:18:26 <JoeHallCDT> … we did get back to the TAG, and now I have some more issues from them
16:18:34 <JoeHallCDT> christine: is the next step to take into account comments from TAG
16:18:44 <JoeHallCDT> is this before a formal group note, or did we do that?
16:18:54 <npdoty> https://github.com/w3ctag/spec-reviews/issues/38#issuecomment-236352266
16:19:00 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: the last rev tried to take care of all of our issues
16:19:07 <npdoty> https://github.com/w3c/fingerprinting-guidance/issues/13
16:19:12 <npdoty> https://github.com/w3c/fingerprinting-guidance/issues/12
16:19:17 <JoeHallCDT> … feedback from TAG was considerably longer, so we'll want to look at those
16:19:19 <npdoty> https://github.com/w3c/fingerprinting-guidance/issues/6
16:19:33 <JoeHallCDT> … these issues (links here) are harder for npdoty to deal with himself
16:19:58 <JoeHallCDT> … I could use help in making the document more actionable
16:20:23 <JoeHallCDT> … decision tree, Q&A style response, so that it would be useful to engineers who want to try to incorporate guidance into their own work
16:20:40 <JoeHallCDT> … would be helpful to get feeback from folks that could apply the guidance to their own document
16:21:05 <JoeHallCDT> … and get back feedback on "this was helpful" or "here is what helped me in my own document"
16:22:00 <JoeHallCDT> … this is issue 13 and is the hardest… we need some good ideas/advice here in terms of actionability
16:22:32 <JoeHallCDT> christine: solution: (?) send an email to the PING list to focus people's attention on those three issues
16:22:46 <JoeHallCDT> … we can check with the chairs to see if we can find someone to help you with actionability
16:23:16 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: that would work, we could also take fingerprinting document into the next review we do
16:23:31 <chaals> [+1 to npdoty's idea of "field-testing]
16:23:47 <JoeHallCDT> christine: wake-lock is probably not a good candidate (not really.)
16:23:59 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: any of the sensors work should be good
16:24:10 <JoeHallCDT> christine: Lucasz would be helpful? (maybe)
16:25:32 <JoeHallCDT> … let's see if we can think of someone to help Nick and what would be a good field test
16:25:35 <JoeHallCDT> … will take it to the list
16:25:37 <JoeHallCDT> 1+
16:25:39 <JoeHallCDT> q+
16:25:40 <tara> Thanks Nick!
16:25:58 <wseltzer> q-
16:26:29 <JoeHallCDT> JoeHallCDT: is this yet a group note?
16:27:05 <JoeHallCDT> christine: it's a draft group note with the ambition of being a group note?
16:28:41 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: yes, the thing we are calling a draft group note was out for feedback and we want to wrap that up
16:28:54 <JoeHallCDT> JoeHallCDT: we can give IAB program a few weeks for feeback
16:29:08 <christine> Agenda item 4: Privacy questionnaire
16:29:28 <JoeHallCDT> christine: apologies, I need to find time to chase people up about this
16:29:50 <JoeHallCDT> … will try to jumpstart interest in it by picking a piece of it to have a discussion on the email list
16:30:15 <JoeHallCDT> … they may be a bit daunted by looking at the whole document, so let's carve off smaller more interesting bits for discussion
16:30:22 <npdoty> q+
16:30:25 <JoeHallCDT> q-
16:31:07 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: Greg, I think we had some discussion on the list about some common cross-origin problems
16:31:27 <JoeHallCDT> gnorcie: thinking less about fingerprinting but more about cross-origin leaks and stuff
16:31:57 <npdoty> https://github.com/gregnorc/ping-privacy-questions/issues
16:32:51 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: will raise an issue
16:33:10 <JoeHallCDT> TPAC! TPAC! TPAC!
16:33:13 <christine> Agenda item - TPAC
16:33:25 <JoeHallCDT> tara: we now have a meeting for PING on Tuesday of TPAC
16:33:37 <JoeHallCDT> … tried to not have conflicts with WebAppSec, etc.
16:33:49 <JoeHallCDT> … no agenda just yet (Joe has not been helpful there!)
16:33:52 <JoeHallCDT> I'll be there!
16:33:57 <keiji> I will
16:34:05 <npdoty> Nick regrets, but would like to call in if possible
16:34:18 <christine> Christine, regrets too
16:34:26 <JoeHallCDT> tara: we have set up A/V to accommodate remote participatoin
16:34:40 <JoeHallCDT> … we need to identify what would be the most productive to work on in the f2f meeting
16:35:00 <JoeHallCDT> … privacy questionnaire, would that be helpful, Christine? (yes.)
16:35:10 <JoeHallCDT> … can evaluate the state of fingerpriting guidance at that time
16:35:25 <JoeHallCDT> … last time we had presentations from other WGs
16:35:36 <JoeHallCDT> … if there is anything else we want to bring up feel free
16:35:38 <npdoty> I think presentation from groups and identification of common issues raised in other working groups is very useful at TPAC
16:35:49 <JoeHallCDT> … will send out a note to the list with draft agenda, solicitiing topics
16:36:08 <JoeHallCDT> npdoty: meeting on Tuesday is different than what we've done usually…
16:36:26 <JoeHallCDT> … won't be able to do what we've done in the past in terms of "here are things we've seen this week"
16:36:29 <JoeHallCDT> q+
16:36:40 <npdoty> q-
16:37:00 <JoeHallCDT> tara: that's a good point, will want to touch base after the meeting for that purpose too
16:37:17 <npdoty> (what time of the day will the meeting be in Europe? and what timezone?)
16:38:03 <npdoty> 4 October, maybe?
16:38:13 <JoeHallCDT> JoeHallCDT: we could have a PING call the week after TPAC
16:38:23 <JoeHallCDT> 4 Oct WFM
16:38:38 <JoeHallCDT> that's a tuesday, just note
16:39:08 <JoeHallCDT> tara: Tuesday meeting is all-day, Lisbon time (08:30-18:00 local time)
16:39:26 <JoeHallCDT> lisbon is GMT, I think
16:39:28 <npdoty> 1am to 9am Pacific Time?
16:40:02 <JoeHallCDT> christine: web privacy news!!!
16:40:03 <christine> Agenda item - web privacy news
16:40:14 <JoeHallCDT> … developments terrifying or otherwise?
16:40:25 <JoeHallCDT> … Lucasz had sent a link around about CSS hijacking
16:42:42 <tara> To respond to Nick - yes, that timezone is about right; 1am to 10am PT, which suggests having later afternoon TPAC-time for items relevant to West Coat USA folks!
16:43:38 <gnorcie> URL: https://github.com/jlund/streisand
16:44:56 <npdoty> tara, either first thing in the morning, or late in the afternoon would work well for me
16:45:45 <chaals> [thanks all. Sorry about not being able to attend the meeting at TPAC, but I'll see some of you there I hope]
16:48:10 <keiji> RRSagent, make minutes
16:48:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/25-privacy-minutes.html keiji
16:48:28 <keiji> RRSAgent, make logs team
16:53:16 <keiji> Meeting: Privacy Interest Group Monthly Meeting - August 2016
16:53:24 <keiji> RRSagent, make minutes
16:53:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/25-privacy-minutes.html keiji
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