13:01:08 RRSAgent has joined #dwbp 13:01:08 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/05-dwbp-irc 13:01:10 RRSAgent, make logs 351 13:01:10 Zakim has joined #dwbp 13:01:12 Zakim, this will be DWBP 13:01:12 ok, trackbot 13:01:13 Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference 13:01:13 Date: 05 August 2016 13:01:17 hi dei 13:01:29 deirdelee: I haven't managed to get webex sorted :( 13:01:30 BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp 13:01:32 I'm so sorry 13:01:41 am trying to see if anyone is around now 13:02:00 Hi Hadley! 13:02:01 no worries 13:02:12 if it's only a couple of us, we could have call on skype 13:02:15 just to touch base 13:02:22 Caroline has joined #DWBP 13:02:22 not an official meeting 13:02:24 that might be a good way to go 13:02:25 antoine has joined #dwbp 13:02:50 hello! 13:03:00 present+ antoine 13:03:09 hello everyone 13:03:27 i'm afraid we don't have webex as we're beyond dwbp charter! 13:03:27 hi Deirdre! 13:03:29 Present+ Caroline 13:03:39 Present+ BernadetteLoscio 13:03:39 can all use Skype? 13:03:40 hi, I can't get into the webex - it says that the meeting has been cancelled 13:03:43 annette_g has joined #dwbp 13:03:45 present+ hadleybeeman 13:04:01 @deirdelee: ok I understand now 13:04:05 hi antoine — we need Phil back to fix that. Our charter is being renewed 13:04:06 I suggest we have an unofficial meeting on skype, which we can still scribe here? 13:04:22 +1 to deirdelee 13:04:25 I'm up for that 13:04:32 I may scribe :) 13:04:35 my skype id is deirdrelee 13:04:47 ok with this, as the informal call last week was quite productive 13:04:49 add me if we're not already connected 13:04:54 deirdelee, do you want to start a call? 13:04:59 :) lots of informal calls 13:05:15 yes hadleybeeman, i'll see who i have in contacts 13:05:18 k 13:05:23 my skype id is antoine.isaac 13:05:25 we may approve all the minutes at once afterwards 13:05:32 newton has joined #dwbp 13:05:54 mine is carolineburle 13:07:08 mine is annette.greiner.1 13:07:36 sent invites to caro & newton 13:07:47 I received :) 13:07:54 Received! 13:07:59 ok, think that's everyone who's here... 13:09:05 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160805 13:09:09 scribe: Caroline 13:09:09 chair: deirdelee 13:09:37 riccardoAlbertoni has joined #DWBP 13:10:00 deirdelee: we decided to postpone the meeting with the Director 13:10:22 ... because of the i18n comments that are still being resolved 13:10:35 webex doesn't work as we're over charter 13:10:37 want to join? 13:10:48 BernadetteLoscio: we added the comments we discussed on last week's meeting. They are available in Github 13:10:49 send me your skype id 13:11:05 ... we sent a message to the i18n group and we are waiting for their feedback 13:11:22 ... we have some doubts to clarify with them 13:11:25 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:11:33 RRSAgent, generate minutes 13:11:33 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/05-dwbp-minutes.html deirdelee 13:11:38 ... the comments we resolved are adressed and we are waiting for i18n confirmation 13:11:48 ... also annette_g has comments 13:11:50 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:12:08 annette_g: about local neutral and local parameters 13:12:09 link to i mean 13:12:33 ... we had a question about it because they don't seem all neutral. I asked how to make sure they are neutral 13:12:41 ... hoe to make representation comparable 13:12:45 https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Status_of_comments_about_the_last_call_working_draft 13:12:48 ... I didn't get a response about it yet 13:12:59 wiki table with comments status 13:13:08 ... I got a response about saying that you have to have some sort of representation there 13:13:41 ... we are waiting confirmation about specific details 13:13:58 ... the question for the DWBP WG is if do we need to have a new BP about it 13:14:05 ... how we will add it if we add it 13:14:09 ... I think we should cover it 13:14:15 hadleybeeman: as a separate BP? 13:14:39 annette_g: I am neutral about it. I am not yet giving up to find a way to include it without creating a new BP 13:14:44 +1 to hadleybeeman 13:14:54 hadleybeeman: from a process pperspective I am worried about creating a new BP 13:15:07 present+ riccardoAlbertoni 13:15:17 +1 to hadleybeeman 13:15:27 ... I think it is a sort of metadata 13:15:41 ... is there a way to extend the language a bit to fit it in? 13:16:07 \me yes please add me .. :) 13:16:25 annette_g: I would find odd to put in withou generalizing the title a litle so would make sense for both 13:17:07 hadleybeeman: if we can make it a editorial change it would be good 13:17:09 q+ 13:17:26 q+ 13:17:32 ... if it has to be fundamental chance it worries me that the director would like to see more evidence that more people has reviewed it 13:18:20 ack antoine 13:18:32 antoine: I am also in favor to keep this on the existing BPs 13:18:44 ... also because of the spirit of the i18n 13:18:47 An editorial change is a different way to describe what we mean. A more substantive change (which I think would require more review from other people) would be us recommending something that is technically different, or new. 13:18:56 ... they tried to put internationalization in what has been done already 13:19:14 ... besides I don't think we should change a lot the document 13:19:41 deirdelee: we were asking for minor comments 13:19:50 q+ 13:19:53 ... if we don't add would that be okay? 13:20:00 q+ to respond re what the director will look for 13:20:06 ... if we incude as a part of an existing BP would be suficient 13:20:08 q+ 13:20:10 q+ 13:20:11 ack deirdelee 13:20:24 antoine: I don't think we can say we were expecting minor comments 13:20:26 ack antoine 13:20:30 ack hadleybeeman 13:20:30 hadleybeeman, you wanted to respond re what the director will look for 13:20:31 ... someone could come with a big comments 13:20:43 hadleybeeman: the director is only going to care if the i18n is happy 13:20:50 ... not how we made them happy 13:21:03 ... we can talk with them and check if they are happy :) 13:21:16 q? 13:21:22 ... the director only has to see that it is solved 13:21:41 ... I agree with antoine that we need to solve independtly of the size of the change 13:21:57 ... we need to say that was solved to the director 13:22:01 ack annette_g 13:22:25 annette_g: it seems that changing the title could be editorial change 13:22:31 ... I will think about the title 13:22:35 ack BernadetteLoscio 13:22:48 BernadetteLoscio: I agree that would be complicated to add a new BP 13:23:15 ... are talking about BP3 13:23:22 ... the focus about this BP is about metadata 13:23:25 q+ 13:23:37 ... I don't know if would be weird if became not related to metadata 13:23:50 deirdelee: if we change the title, remove metadata and change the position of it 13:24:06 ... if we move the position of it out of metadata section it would cover 13:24:26 I am not sure it would be possible to do what deirdelee is suggeting 13:24:34 BernadetteLoscio: we need to see were we could put it 13:24:48 q? 13:24:53 ack me 13:25:06 ... I am not sure if creating a new section is a good idea 13:25:12 q+ 13:25:17 "internationalize your data with locale parameters metadata and locale-neutral presentation" 13:25:24 ... I am not crazy about this idea 13:25:32 q+ 13:25:36 ack Caroline 13:26:03 q+ 13:26:13 ack annette_g 13:26:18 q+ 13:26:58 annette_g: I suggested the title "internationalize your data with locale parameters metadata and locale-neutral presentation" 13:27:13 hadleybeeman: we can either change the title or using the example they gave 13:27:42 ... basicaly to include where appropriate in the BP3 13:27:43 ack hadleybeeman 13:27:44 q+ 13:27:49 q- 13:28:06 ... I am not suggesting changing the title, but adding their example as another apossible approach to implementation 13:28:19 s/either change the title/add under another Possible approach to implementation 13:28:22 annette_g: I feel it need to be in the title or it could get lost otherwise 13:28:28 q+ 13:28:31 ack annette_g 13:29:02 deirdelee: what if we do what hadleybeeman is suggesting and id they are not happy about it we change the title? 13:29:13 q+ 13:29:20 annette_g: I worry about us being driven by trying to minimize change 13:29:34 ... if we prefer to do something different otherwise 13:29:48 deirdelee: if we jsut change the short description 13:30:06 ... I don't think we have to change the title to prove we are talking about it 13:30:13 ack deirdelee 13:30:14 deirdelee: maybe we could make the title more general 13:30:16 ack antoine 13:30:31 antoine: I am trying to understand what are talking about 13:30:38 ... about comment 13? 13:30:41 deirdelee: yes 13:30:54 antoine: I think we should have metadata about the localization 13:31:03 ... the data is already localized 13:31:17 ... are we going to ask people to change their data? 13:31:23 q+ 13:31:25 Title: Provide locale information. Subtitle: "internationalize your data with locale parameters metadata and locale-neutral presentation" 13:31:28 ... if we do this, we could suggest as part of data enrichment 13:31:48 deirdelee: do we need local neutral and local parameters? 13:31:56 antoine: is it changing the data? 13:32:14 ... are we asking people to change their value and units? 13:32:15 ack BernadetteLoscio 13:32:20 BernadetteLoscio: I agree with antoine 13:32:29 ... BP 3 is not the place to alk about it 13:32:43 q+ 13:32:52 ... we could mention it as a general guideline in the introduction 13:33:11 ... I am not sure if I understood correctly, but I think it is something different of what we say at BP3 13:33:13 ack annette_g 13:33:27 q+ 13:33:28 annette_g: we still have the same problem if we put it in the data enrichment section 13:33:28 q+ 13:33:50 ack BernadetteLoscio 13:33:56 BernadetteLoscio: If I look into the BPs now I don't see a BP where this comment really fit in 13:34:10 ... I can add a phrase about it in the introduction 13:34:29 ... say something that this is also a standard and give links to documents related to it 13:34:31 q? 13:34:43 ... I think we shouldn't include another BP 13:34:55 ... the introduction of the document itself 13:35:22 q+ 13:35:25 ... in the introduction there is a paragraph that says that it is need to use standards to publish data on the web 13:35:44 ... we had this discussion with laufer and the group and we added that paragraph 13:36:05 deirdelee: let's hear antoine and annette_g and discuss the vocabs 13:36:20 ack antoine 13:36:21 ... then we can finish this discussion on the mailing list 13:36:36 antoine: I feel okay as having this on BP 31 - data enrichment 13:36:50 annette_g: this is not new data 13:37:04 ... BP 31 is enrich data on generating new data 13:37:30 annette_g: if I have my value in feet and I want in meeters it is new data 13:37:45 annette_g: I hitnk we are asking people to separate value from the unit 13:37:46 q? 13:37:53 s/hitnk/think 13:37:56 annette_g: in many situation the unit will be just implicic 13:38:09 My suggestion for where to put it: BP 3. Title: Provide locale information. Subtitle: "internationalize your data with locale parameters metadata and locale-neutral presentation" 13:38:10 s/implicic/implicit 13:38:17 q+ to ask about having a discussion with i18n before we decide 13:38:27 giving them these options 13:38:34 ack annette_g 13:38:46 +1 to Hadley 13:38:49 hadleybeeman: I think the discussion with the i18n will go better with a suggestion 13:38:58 okay, hadleybeeman :) 13:39:29 deirdelee: we are moving to DQV and moving the comments to email as annette_g is typing it 13:39:42 My suggestion for where to put it: BP 3. Title: Provide locale information. Subtitle: "internationalize your data with locale parameters metadata and locale-neutral presentation" 13:40:04 BernadetteLoscio: just to clarify, annette_g is suggesting to change the title of BP3 and then we will discuss it by email before sending the suggestion to the i18n group? 13:40:06 deirdelee: yes 13:40:10 Topic: DQV 13:40:18 yes 13:40:21 please 13:40:41 antoine: we are using the extra time during summer to polish it 13:40:56 ... we are not changing much to the basic proposal on data model 13:41:11 ... we want to make the document better for readers 13:41:17 ... most of the changes are editorial 13:41:26 ... we still have ongoing discussions 13:41:32 ... people made some suggestions 13:41:49 ... they might endup in several extra changes 13:42:09 ... if people in the group are okay with it that is the way we can continue owrking in August 13:42:16 q+ 13:42:20 q+ 13:42:23 ... we are happy the way the document is being changed in the past weeks 13:42:24 ack Caroline 13:42:24 Caroline, you wanted to ask about having a discussion with i18n before we decide 13:42:33 ... there need to be a pont when the group decide to publish it 13:42:48 Zakim: I asked already 13:43:05 deirdelee: it is completely fine to use the time until September 13:43:15 Q+ to talk about deadlines... and the working group 13:43:19 ... it is good to have a particularly cutting point 13:43:47 ... would be good to have implementation examples 13:43:52 ack deirdelee 13:44:16 ack hadleybeeman 13:44:16 hadleybeeman, you wanted to talk about deadlines... and the working group 13:44:18 hadleybeeman: Phil is owrking to have an extention of the WG 13:44:27 list of pointers for implementations of DQV: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/List_of_DQV_implementations 13:44:29 ... it is good to use the time to improve the document 13:45:04 Yaso has joined #dwbp 13:45:36 q+ to talk about evidences 13:45:40 ... if we get pass the end of having regular meetings we will have to call a specific meeting to pass on transitions 13:46:14 ack newton 13:46:14 newton, you wanted to talk about evidences 13:46:17 ... you will have to catch everyone's atention and the further we get away from our rotine will be harder to get the WG together to review and vote on publication 13:46:48 q+ 13:46:55 ack riccardoAlbertoni 13:47:13 riccardoAlbertoni: considering the implementation for DQV my group is planning to use the doument 13:47:33 ... in September we will have dataset to document the DQV implementation 13:47:58 ... the implementation being already collected 13:48:07 ... we are not on the CR 13:48:20 ack riccardoAlbertoni 13:49:07 deirdelee: to vote DQV when would that be/ 13:49:14 s//? 13:49:18 q+ 13:49:52 antoine: we would be ready to publish something anytime 2 weeks from now 13:50:09 .. we are gathering implementations, but they are not needed, right? 13:50:11 deirdelee: yes 13:50:24 antoine: that is why I said the model is not changing 13:50:30 ack antoine 13:50:36 ... it is stable and if the WG wants to vote we can do it 13:50:50 hadleybeeman: the only thing is that the WG has to vote for any change on the document 13:50:57 deirdelee: that is the same for DUV 13:51:08 ... we should arrange the same dat for both 13:51:13 q+ 13:51:20 ack antoine 13:51:23 ... let's see with the DUV editors to schedule a data 13:51:27 s/data/sdate 13:51:35 s/sdate/date 13:51:43 antoine: we can adpat to the BP document voting 13:51:54 hadleybeeman: we are making changes because of the i18n comments 13:52:08 ... we will need to make a vote to transition on the BP document 13:52:18 .. does it make sense to vote them together? 13:52:24 q+ 13:52:25 deirdelee: if we agree on that 13:52:41 ... the BP document voting would tide the DQV and DUV voting 13:53:05 antoine: I would be help to help to make sure we can vote on the DQV at the same time 13:53:10 sorry i missed the date you proposed 13:53:24 deirdelee: BernadetteLoscio can you discuss it with Eric and see if we are all on the same page? 13:53:36 ack antoine 13:53:46 ... I think Eric made the last changes we discussed but we still don't have the implementations 13:53:56 ... I will discuss with him to propose imlpementations 13:54:09 deirdelee: dont'having implementations it isn't a blocking 13:54:16 q+ 13:54:21 BernadetteLoscio: I think it is possible to implementations 13:54:38 ... about annette_g's proposal on the BP document 13:55:14 ... the proposal annette_g did is good but we also to change the BP's text 13:55:18 ... not only the title 13:55:22 annette_g: ture 13:55:27 s/ture/true 13:55:36 q? 13:55:38 ack BernadetteLoscio 13:55:52 Ales Versic | Ministry of Public Administration | aversic@gov.si 13:55:53 q+ 13:55:54 newton: about the evidences, we only have a few until now 13:56:06 Deirdre Lee | National Transport Authority | deirdre@derilinx.com 13:56:12 I still have to send my emails about the evidences 13:56:20 I am sorry I am late on doing that 13:56:22 q+ to suggest 13:56:42 deirdelee: we are not asking people for implementation yet 13:56:59 deirdelee: Caroline made the email that is on the week and we have to start sending the emails 13:57:31 ack deirdelee 13:57:58 BP's editors will send an email about the implementations to the WG remember to send emails to their contacts 13:59:08 hadleybeeman: we can have implementations already, but we don't have to set a deadline until the director's call 13:59:15 ... there is no pressure yet 13:59:35 deirdelee: just a reminder that we as WG members can also add implementations 13:59:47 ... is there any final comments? 13:59:56 hadleybeeman: are we having another call next week? 13:59:59 q+ 14:00:02 deirdelee: I hope so 14:00:35 PROPOSED: Approve meetings from 22nd July https://www.w3.org/2016/07/22-dwbp-minutes.html 14:00:39 hadleybeeman: we can do oficial calls on Skype if they are on the mailing list with 24h in advance 14:00:44 +1 14:00:47 +1 14:00:48 BernadetteLoscio: one final question about the comment on BP3 14:01:00 +0 14:01:07 ... annette_g is going to make a proposal for the hole BP or are we discussing with the i18n? 14:01:17 antoine: I sent an email as a starting point 14:01:20 +1 14:01:24 +1 14:01:39 s/antoine/annette 14:02:28 BernadetteLoscio: I just want to know who is going to make the changes 14:02:39 annette_g: it might help to see the discussion 14:03:05 RESOLVED: Approve meetings from 22nd July https://www.w3.org/2016/07/22-dwbp-minutes.html 14:03:05 hadleybeeman: if you just put it the proposal new line it might be easier to explains how that meet the i18n's suggestoin 14:03:38 annette_g: I sent the email aleady :0 14:03:44 s/0/s:) 14:03:44 https://www.w3.org/2016/07/29-dwbp-minutes.html 14:03:59 RRSAgent, make the minutes 14:03:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/05-dwbp-minutes.html newton 14:04:36 present+ deirdelee 14:04:47 present+ hadleybeeman 14:04:57 bye all 14:04:58 have a good weekend ! 14:05:05 thank you and have a nice weekend! 14:05:09 RRSAgent, generate minutes 14:05:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/05-dwbp-minutes.html deirdelee 14:06:07 because localisation comments are still open 14:06:15 deirdelee: thanks! 14:06:37 ok, bye all, have a nice weekend 14:06:50 Yaso has left #dwbp 14:36:40 newton has joined #dwbp 14:59:28 newton has joined #dwbp 16:24:48 Zakim has left #dwbp 16:29:47 newton has joined #dwbp 16:30:51 newton_ has joined #dwbp 16:32:11 newton__ has joined #dwbp 16:33:28 newton_ has joined #dwbp 17:21:00 newton has joined #dwbp 17:37:11 newton has joined #dwbp