14:26:20 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
14:26:20 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/08/01-dpub-irc
14:26:22 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:26:22 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
14:26:24 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
14:26:24 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:26:25 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
14:26:25 <trackbot> Date: 01 August 2016
14:26:31 <ivan> Chair: Tzviya
14:27:27 <ivan> Regrets: Heather, Dave, Luc, Vlad, Tim, Daniel
14:46:20 <boris_anthony> boris_anthony has joined #dpub
14:48:24 <boris_> boris_ has joined #dpub
14:54:25 <garth> garth has joined #dpub
14:54:50 <Avneesh> Avneesh has joined #dpub
14:55:39 <cmaden2> cmaden2 has joined #dpub
14:57:46 <ShaneM> ShaneM has joined #dpub
14:57:52 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
14:59:55 <clapierre1> clapierre1 has joined #DPUB
15:00:05 <tzviya> present+ Tzviya
15:00:06 <brady_duga> present+ duga
15:00:08 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
15:00:18 <garth> present+ garth
15:00:42 <cmaden2> present+ Chris_Maden
15:00:43 <ivan> present+ ivan
15:00:44 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
15:01:18 <clapierre1> present+ Charles_LaPierre
15:01:42 <boris_> present+ BorisAnthony
15:02:01 <astearns> present+ astearns
15:02:18 <tzviya> scribenick: bjdmeest
15:02:26 <tzviya> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2016Jul/0042.html
15:02:40 <Avneesh> present+ Avneesh
15:02:47 <tzviya> present+ George_Kerscher
15:03:22 <bjdmeest> tzviya: welcome back everyone!
15:03:26 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/11-dpub-minutes.html
15:03:29 <bjdmeest> Topic: approving minutes
15:03:36 <lrosenth> lrosenth has joined #dpub
15:03:40 <bjdmeest> tzviya: any comments?
15:03:52 <bjdmeest> ... we did live editing on the use cases on the manifest
15:04:02 <bjdmeest> ... no comments? ok, minutes approved
15:04:11 <bjdmeest> Topic: new members
15:04:28 <bjdmeest> .boris_: I am Boris Anthony
15:04:38 <bjdmeest> ... I joined with the rebus foundation
15:04:42 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
15:04:53 <bjdmeest> ... we want to bring textbooks on the Web
15:05:05 <bjdmeest> ... looking forward to working with all of you
15:05:27 <ivan> present+ Karen
15:05:33 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Sep_2016_F2F_Logistics_and_Details
15:05:37 <bigbluehat> Present+ Benjamin_Young
15:05:37 <bjdmeest> Topic: TPAC planning
15:05:41 <Bert> present+
15:05:46 <bjdmeest> tzviya: there is a grid at the wiki page
15:06:01 <bjdmeest> ... but you also need to register at the W3C site
15:06:06 <bjdmeest> ... let's talk about schedule
15:06:11 <bjdmeest> ... what groups we want to meet with
15:06:24 <ShaneM> present+ ShaneM
15:06:24 <bjdmeest> ... we meet on Monday and Tuesday, IDPF is on Thursday
15:06:41 <tzviya> q?
15:06:41 <bjdmeest> ... I would like to talk about A11Y with Aria
15:06:48 <bjdmeest> ... and with WebApps
15:06:52 <ivan> q+
15:06:58 <lrosenth> q+
15:07:11 <garth> Anything with CSS?
15:07:34 <bjdmeest> ???: talking with WCAG? after the merger
15:07:45 <ivan> s/???/Avneesh/
15:07:54 <tzviya> ack iv
15:07:54 <bjdmeest> tzviya: that could be merged with the ARIA meeting, I think
15:08:04 <bjdmeest> ivan: I think, by default, we will have a meeting with CSS
15:08:23 <bjdmeest> ... I don't know whether the SVG group is meeting
15:08:52 <bjdmeest> ... maybe, somebody from that group (if they are meeting on TPAC) to talk about where SVG is going would be good
15:09:03 <Bert> (SVG is meeting on Thu + Fri)
15:09:07 <tzviya> ack lr
15:09:20 <liam> liam has joined #dpub
15:09:31 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: I also wanted to bring up CSS, and WebApps (about manifests) are a good idea, seem like the key things
15:09:44 <nickbarreto> nickbarreto has joined #dpub
15:10:03 <ivan> q+
15:10:04 <bjdmeest> ... my expectations would to start working through specifics of the technical details
15:10:18 <bjdmeest> ... we focussed on use cases, and during the F2F, we could have practical discussions
15:10:46 <bjdmeest> tzviya: It might be nice, we could reserve a little bit of time for that, but TPAC is mostly about talking with other groups
15:11:08 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: to me, I don't have the feeling we have enough foundation to talk with other groups yet
15:11:14 <tzviya> present+ nickbarreto
15:11:23 <tzviya> ack iv
15:11:28 <bjdmeest> ... we do have use cases
15:11:43 <bjdmeest> .... but not enough to talk with other groups
15:11:57 <tzviya> regrets+ pkra
15:12:01 <garth> Could Ivan try to speak up a bit?
15:12:20 <garth> Better!
15:12:41 <bjdmeest> ivan: For our long-term work, I cannot emphasize enough how important the use case document is
15:12:54 <bjdmeest> ... I hope to publish at least on document to show to the world after TPAC
15:13:48 <bjdmeest> ... About Leonard's comment: in the long-term (i.e. sometime next year), we hope to create a working group that can do standardization work
15:13:56 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #dpub
15:13:57 <bjdmeest> ... for that, we need an extensive charter
15:14:09 <bjdmeest> ... so first, we need to look into how such a charter would look like
15:14:10 <tzviya> present+ david_stroup
15:14:16 <bjdmeest> ... how we would standardize this thing
15:14:24 <lrosenth> q+
15:14:36 <bjdmeest> ... that is partially technical work, more than the use cases, but not too much details
15:14:47 <bjdmeest> ... that needs to be accepted by the W3C first
15:15:15 <bjdmeest> ... in this case, there is a large level op complexity, so having a solid discussion on the IG on what sounds realistic, should be very helpful
15:15:31 <tzviya> ack lr
15:15:44 <bjdmeest> tzviya: talking with other groups is more about 'this is the state we are in'
15:16:06 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: I agree publishing that use case document is the first step
15:16:19 <bjdmeest> ... and I see how to proceed from IG to WG
15:16:41 <bjdmeest> tzviya: any other requests for other groups or agenda points for ourselves for TPAC?
15:16:47 <garth> q+
15:17:23 <bjdmeest> ???: do we have a list of groups present at TPAC?
15:17:25 <ivan> q+
15:17:29 <bjdmeest> tzviya: I could send a list
15:17:30 <tzviya> ack ga
15:18:07 <ShaneM> The meeting schedules are up for all the groups.
15:18:45 <bjdmeest> garth: we'll be meeting with the groups that also meet on Monday Tuesday, I assume we'll have enough time for our group
15:19:17 <bjdmeest> tzviya: usually, we ask other groups: 'these are the slots DPUBIG have free, could you come in then?'
15:19:34 <bjdmeest> ... for some groups, we might need to shift
15:19:49 <lrosenth> q+
15:20:04 <bjdmeest> ... I agree we should not spend all the TPAC time, not with other groups, on use case writing
15:20:23 <tzviya> ack iv
15:21:00 <bjdmeest> ivan: an other group for the list is the IETM group
15:21:22 <ShaneM> Also remember there are the crazy short sessions on Wednesday that we can set up for fun topics that we want to brainstorm with lots of other interested people.
15:21:26 <tzviya> s/IETM/i18n
15:21:52 <bjdmeest> ... there are a lot of local groups that are getting towards a publication, e.g., about other language rendering
15:21:59 <tzviya> ack lr
15:22:05 <bjdmeest> ivan: speaking with r12a is always a good idea btw
15:22:22 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: does it make sense to have a list of topics, and send those ahead?
15:22:27 <bjdmeest> tzivya: yes
15:22:40 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Sep_2016_F2F_Logistics_and_Details#Schedule
15:22:51 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: so that's what we'll put together in the next weeks?
15:23:15 <bjdmeest> tzviya: See link above, it's good to have topics asap
15:23:46 <bjdmeest> ivan: there is a new activity starting on Internet of Things
15:24:07 <bjdmeest> ... I'm wondering whether these would have a relationship with what we do
15:25:01 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: the group about identity etc., do they also meet?
15:25:06 <bjdmeest> ivan: yes
15:25:10 <bjdmeest> tzviya: added to the wiki
15:25:20 <clapierre1> q+
15:25:50 <tzviya> ack cl
15:26:23 <bjdmeest> clapierre: for a11y, we have some outstanding issues with schema.org
15:26:31 <bjdmeest> ... I could personally set something up
15:27:03 <bjdmeest> tzviya: I'm not sure schema.org is meeting, the relevant people will probably be there
15:27:13 <bjdmeest> ... I'm not sure all DPUB people need to be there
15:27:29 <bjdmeest> Topic: Use Cases
15:27:31 <ivan> B.t.w. the current schedule at TPAC: https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/schedule.html
15:27:43 <bjdmeest> tzviya: I assigned some sections to some people
15:28:02 <bjdmeest> ... I'm hoping in the next two weeks, assigned people will do so
15:28:11 <bjdmeest> ... if you can't work on this, please speak up
15:28:43 <bjdmeest> ... doing this only via phone calls took a long time
15:29:03 <bjdmeest> ... looking at the agenda, most of these things are things you have already worked on
15:29:25 <bjdmeest> ... it's mostly about checking that the document properly reflects your work
15:29:33 <tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2016Jul/0042.html
15:29:47 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2016Jul/0042.html
15:30:09 <astearns> astearns has changed the topic to: Aug 1st agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2016Jul/0042.html
15:30:20 <bjdmeest> tzviya: I assigned introduction to Hugh McGuire
15:30:26 <boris_> hehe
15:30:27 <pkra> pkra has joined #dpub
15:30:41 <bjdmeest> ... changing states and locators, I've assigned to Ben and Leonard
15:30:51 <bjdmeest> ... both are pretty robust
15:31:15 <pkra> present+ peter krautzberger
15:31:18 <bjdmeest> ... locators is little bit weaker than changing states, but both of you have worked on the locators taks force
15:31:53 <bjdmeest> ... and about the locators section, maybe check whether they should be merged, and whether the annotations should stay
15:32:51 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: I think we do need use cases around annotations, but they need some cleanup
15:33:05 <bjdmeest> ... because some use cases are specific to dpub
15:33:16 <bjdmeest> ivan: we already published a doc specific to annotations
15:33:25 <bjdmeest> ... it's worth looking into
15:33:37 <bjdmeest> ... we should refer to that
15:33:57 <tzviya> annotation use cases for dpub: https://www.w3.org/TR/dpub-annotation-uc/
15:34:16 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: I was going into the other direction: maybe it's worth revisiting the (old) doc, and update in the new document
15:35:03 <bjdmeest> tzviya: Leonard and Ben are sensible people, they can work together ;)
15:35:36 <bjdmeest> ... about the next section
15:35:39 <tzviya> present+ BillK
15:36:11 <bjdmeest> BillKasdorf: If I could have a little more time (Laurent is probably on vacation anyway), it could be done
15:36:24 <bjdmeest> tzviya: the next section is for me and Ivan
15:36:53 <bjdmeest> tzviya: archiving: most of the work is done, but I'm concerned some discussion of the working group is missing
15:37:03 <bjdmeest> ... I'll send an email to them
15:37:28 <bjdmeest> ... a11y: charles and deborah
15:37:54 <bjdmeest> ... I think the current use cases can be cleaned a bit, there were some additional ones I though
15:38:28 <bjdmeest> ... css: dave and brady
15:38:47 <bjdmeest> brady_duga: we can switch work, me this week, Dave next week
15:39:05 <bjdmeest> tzviya: it's a bit of a confusing section atm
15:39:12 <bjdmeest> ... if there's stuff that needs to be added, you can add it
15:39:50 <bjdmeest> ... some of the sections might be already covered, and it could be you need to delete the section
15:40:10 <bjdmeest> tzviya: the last section, other and misc, we should clean this up
15:40:29 <bjdmeest> ... hopefully, all these things can be either out of scope or merged into other sections
15:40:32 <tzviya> q?
15:40:35 <bjdmeest> ... any volunteer to help Heather?
15:41:03 <bjdmeest> ShaneM: Heather has done really a lot, I'll help
15:41:30 <bjdmeest> tzviya: in the end, we'll hand it over to Heather for a final version
15:41:43 <bjdmeest> ... timeframe is to be done in 3-4 weeks, so we could publish before TPAC
15:42:01 <bjdmeest> ... I have a list of names now
15:42:06 <bjdmeest> ... we'll see what happens
15:42:14 <garth> Upcoming meetings?
15:42:34 <bjdmeest> tzviya: what would we like to discuss next week?
15:42:54 <bjdmeest> ivan: I would like to hear back from the archival people
15:42:57 <lrosenth> q+
15:43:37 <tzviya> ack lr
15:43:37 <bjdmeest> ... I don't know that world
15:44:18 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: the archival task force did report back to the main, but we could replay that
15:44:32 <bjdmeest> tzviya: I think we never heard the final update, I'll ping Tim
15:44:55 <bjdmeest> ... we also didn't hear from the Web Annotation WG
15:45:06 <bigbluehat> +1
15:45:32 <bjdmeest> ivan: benjamin and I could do that
15:46:27 <bjdmeest> garth: I also though about spending time fleshing out the topics for TPAC with the other groups
15:46:40 <bjdmeest> tzviya: I also suspect updates about DPUB ARIA
15:47:03 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/css-a11y/work-statement
15:47:07 <bjdmeest> ... there is a task force forming between CSS and AIRA, to create a CSS A11Y mapping
15:47:12 <bjdmeest> ... see above statement
15:47:30 <bjdmeest> ... e.g., have an a11y fallback for generated content
15:47:38 <boris_> q+
15:47:42 <tzviya> ack boris
15:48:10 <bjdmeest> boris_: just looking through the use case doc
15:48:43 <lrosenth> q+
15:48:46 <bjdmeest> ... has there been any talk about requirements about having a collection of books?
15:48:56 <ivan> +100000 to Boris
15:49:02 <bjdmeest> ... do we need to think about systems to manage collections?
15:49:29 <bjdmeest> ... e.g., take-down services, URIs,... there might be some use cases there
15:49:31 <bigbluehat> huge +1 to Boris
15:49:50 <bjdmeest> tzviya: certainly feel free to add use cases
15:50:32 <bjdmeest> ivan: I can help for any practicalities
15:51:07 <bjdmeest> boris_: my background is in Interaction design, product design, experience architecture, did some stuff on libraries, so have some experience there
15:51:10 <tzviya> ack lr
15:51:24 <lrosenth> OER?
15:51:43 <bjdmeest> ???: the a11y on Open Education Resourcers (OER) is super important
15:51:49 <tzviya> OER= open education resources
15:51:54 <ivan> s/???/George/
15:51:54 <clapierre1> s/???/George/
15:51:56 <tzviya> s/???/George
15:52:20 <bjdmeest> lrosenth: I strongly recommend to read the section about locations, that is probably very related to your concerns
15:52:43 <bjdmeest> ... also: this is not about just books, we should make something that works for any kind of publication
15:52:54 <bjdmeest> ... magasins, christmas card, ...
15:53:03 <bjdmeest> boris_: I totally agree
15:53:04 <ivan> s/magasins/magazines/
15:53:12 <tzviya> q?
15:53:18 <bjdmeest> tzviya: [adjourn]
15:53:22 <bjdmeest> ... happy writing!
15:53:23 <clapierre1> clapierre1 has left #dpub
15:53:28 <garth> Thanks Tzviya!
15:53:37 <cmaden2> cmaden2 has left #dpub
15:59:20 <boris_> boris_ has joined #dpub
15:59:31 <Florian> Florian has joined #dpub
16:00:12 <boris_anthony> boris_anthony has joined #dpub
16:03:24 <boris_anthony> boris_anthony has left #dpub
16:03:39 <boris_anthony> boris_anthony has joined #dpub
16:07:51 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:07:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/01-dpub-minutes.html ivan
16:08:03 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
16:08:03 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:08:03 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Tzviya, duga, garth, Chris_Maden, ivan, Ben_De_Meester, Charles_LaPierre, BorisAnthony, astearns, Avneesh, George_Kerscher, Karen,
16:08:06 <Zakim> ... Benjamin_Young, Bert, ShaneM, nickbarreto, david_stroup, peter, krautzberger, BillK
16:08:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:08:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/08/01-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
16:08:12 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:08:12 <RRSAgent> I see no action items