IRC log of dwbp on 2016-07-29

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:59:28 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/29-dwbp-irc
12:59:30 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 351
12:59:30 [Zakim]
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12:59:32 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DWBP
12:59:32 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot
12:59:33 [trackbot]
Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
12:59:33 [trackbot]
Date: 29 July 2016
12:59:53 [hadleybeeman]
PWinstanley: now, though I'm afraid I won't be joining the group
13:00:01 [PWinstanley]
ok
13:00:35 [hadleybeeman]
RRSAgent, make lots public
13:00:35 [RRSAgent]
I'm logging. I don't understand 'make lots public', hadleybeeman. Try /msg RRSAgent help
13:00:56 [hadleybeeman]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:01:50 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
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13:02:09 [Caroline]
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13:03:48 [annette_g]
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13:04:42 [antoine]
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13:05:41 [antoine]
present+ antoine
13:06:02 [annette_g]
present+ annette_g
13:06:27 [BernadetteLoscio]
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13:06:49 [Makx]
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13:06:49 [BernadetteLoscio]
hello!
13:06:56 [annette_g]
hi!
13:07:02 [antoine]
hello
13:07:04 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
present+ RiccardoAlbertoni
13:08:00 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
Hello!
13:08:18 [PWinstanley]
hi
13:08:31 [PWinstanley]
no audio!
13:11:44 [laufer]
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13:12:13 [laufer]
present+ laufer
13:12:38 [BernadetteLoscio]
present+ BernadetteLoscio
13:13:52 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
following the instruction on the agenda page..
13:14:01 [BernadetteLoscio]
https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Status_of_comments_about_the_last_call_working_draft
13:14:18 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
trackbot, start meeting
13:14:20 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 351
13:14:22 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DWBP
13:14:22 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot
13:14:23 [trackbot]
Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:14:23 [trackbot]
Date: 29 July 2016
13:17:48 [BernadetteLoscio]
q+
13:17:54 [BernadetteLoscio]
q?
13:17:56 [BernadetteLoscio]
q-
13:22:46 [BernadetteLoscio]
q-
13:23:06 [Caroline]
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13:23:19 [Caroline]
Present+ Caroline
13:23:39 [annette_g]
scribe: annette_g
13:23:40 [BernadetteLoscio]
no :)
13:23:43 [BernadetteLoscio]
we are here!
13:24:19 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: let's discuss the suggestions from the I18n group
13:24:41 [annette_g]
annette_g: comment 11 looks easy, just a spelling correction
13:25:03 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: look at 13
13:25:35 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Status_of_comments_about_the_last_call_working_draft
13:25:56 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: annette, can you send a message to the I18n group to clarify?
13:26:00 [annette_g]
annette_g: yes
13:26:13 [BernadetteLoscio]
q?
13:26:15 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: comments 15 and 16 are also about locale parameters
13:27:05 [BernadetteLoscio]
The WG feels that BP3 should include a reference or recommendation to consistently use BCP47 as the standard for language and locale identification and, informatively, to CLDR as the source for both representing specific localized formats and as a reference for specific locale data values.
13:27:05 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: for 15, we can include a recommendation to reference BCP47 in the implementation section
13:28:18 [annette_g]
PROPOSED: that we add a reference to IETF BCP 47 to BP 3 in the implementation section.
13:28:41 [Caroline]
+1
13:28:42 [annette_g]
+1
13:28:45 [BernadetteLoscio]
+1
13:28:49 [laufer]
+1
13:28:58 [EricKauz]
+1
13:29:11 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
+1
13:29:38 [Makx]
yes I am trying to get the right windows open on my screen
13:29:46 [antoine]
+0 - need to see if there are relations with the other comment
13:29:58 [Makx]
can someone send URL of BP3 please
13:30:10 [BernadetteLoscio]
https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#metadata
13:31:21 [Makx]
OK..
13:31:27 [annette_g]
antoine: my concern is that there may be something in the BP that conflicts with this.
13:31:39 [Makx]
I disagree that language should be indicated by langauge codes
13:31:44 [annette_g]
Caroline: we can address issues that arise in a later meeting.
13:32:26 [annette_g]
antoine: I wouldn't want to have an example in example 17 that conflicts with the one in example 3.
13:32:44 [Makx]
DCAT for example indicates language by URI that represents the language so the example is correct ...
13:33:51 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: we are consistent right now in example 3 and example 15.
13:34:04 [annette_g]
s/example 17/example 15
13:35:07 [BernadetteLoscio]
q?
13:36:06 [Makx]
Example 15 should read: "The Library of Congress publishes URIs for languages (see [ISO639-1-LOC]" There are not language codes but URIs for languages -- which make a difference in Linked Data.
13:36:29 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: I'm going to send a message to the I18N asking if what they are suggesting is okay with our examples. We also need to ask them to clarify the above.
13:36:30 [Makx]
s/There/These
13:37:53 [annette_g]
RESOLVED: that we add a reference to IETF BCP 47 to BP 3 in the implementation section.
13:38:16 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: we will also get clarification from the I18N group as well.
13:38:26 [BernadetteLoscio]
q?
13:38:42 [Makx]
Please note that ISO 639-1 defines itself as "Codes for the representation of *names* of languages", not "Codes for the representation of languages"
13:38:56 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: next, comment 16
13:40:04 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: this is about the need to tag natural language text with a natural language tag.
13:40:29 [Makx]
Comment 16 is about direction of scripts
13:40:32 [annette_g]
annette_g: I think we could add that to the implementation section
13:41:07 [Makx]
The ask for acknowledging that this is a known problem without a good solution
13:41:26 [Makx]
Let's acknolwledge that.
13:41:44 [Caroline]
q+
13:42:01 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: they say there is currently no good mechanism to indicate base direction.
13:42:07 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
+1 to acknowledge the problem
13:42:17 [annette_g]
Caroline: I think they want us to just mention that this is a problem.
13:42:18 [BernadetteLoscio]
ack Caroline
13:42:55 [annette_g]
annette_g: they are still saying that we should recommend people tag the language itself.
13:43:38 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: so should we just mention that this is an unsolved problem? or that there is no standard way to solve it?
13:44:07 [annette_g]
annette_g: I think we can do that along with saying that you can tag the language.
13:44:18 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: can you write a paragraph that we can include?
13:44:24 [annette_g]
annette_g: I can give that a try
13:44:46 [Makx]
I think we should say all text need to be tagged. I always do that in specs.
13:45:29 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: it always helps to give them a concrete suggestion.
13:47:06 [Caroline]
action to annette_g to write a message to i18n group to clarify the comment 13
13:47:07 [trackbot]
Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/users>.
13:47:24 [Caroline]
action to annette to write a message to i18n group to clarify the comment 13
13:47:24 [trackbot]
Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/users>.
13:47:53 [Caroline]
action to annette_g write a message to i18n group to clarify the comment 13
13:47:53 [trackbot]
Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/users>.
13:48:51 [Caroline]
action to BernadetteLoscio update the document according to comment 15 and send a message to i18n goup
13:48:51 [trackbot]
Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/users>.
13:49:11 [Caroline]
action BernadetteLoscio update the document according to comment 15 and send a message to i18n goup
13:49:12 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-291 - Update the document according to comment 15 and send a message to i18n goup [on Bernadette Farias Loscio - due 2016-08-05].
13:49:44 [Caroline]
action annette_g write a message to i18n group to clarify the comment 13
13:49:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-292 - Write a message to i18n group to clarify the comment 13 [on Annette Greiner - due 2016-08-05].
13:50:23 [Caroline]
action annette_g update the document according to comment 16 - explain that the text should be tagged
13:50:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-293 - Update the document according to comment 16 - explain that the text should be tagged [on Annette Greiner - due 2016-08-05].
13:51:17 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: Antoine, what do you think about comment 17?
13:51:37 [Makx]
+1 to Antoine
13:51:59 [Makx]
q+
13:52:05 [annette_g]
antoine: I suggested two options and I suggest we go with the simpler one. Replace the word country by language.
13:52:28 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: this is example 15
13:52:41 [BernadetteLoscio]
ack Makx
13:53:36 [annette_g]
Makx: what the library of congress publishes is URIs for languages, so my proposal is to say the LoC publishes URIs for languages.
13:54:08 [BernadetteLoscio]
q?
13:54:48 [annette_g]
Makx: we should avoid opening the can of worms about the names of languages versus the languages themselves.
13:55:43 [antoine]
suggested text: "The Library of Congress publishes lists of ISO 639 languages as Linked Data (see [ISO639-1-LOC] for two-letter codes):"
13:55:57 [Makx]
+1
13:56:02 [Caroline]
+1
13:56:09 [laufer]
+1
13:56:56 [annette_g]
PROPOSED: that we use Makx's suggested text for example 15, of "The Library of Congress publishes lists of ISO 639 languages as Linked Data (see [ISO639-1-LOC] for two-letter codes".
13:57:06 [annette_g]
+1
13:57:07 [Caroline]
+1
13:57:17 [BernadetteLoscio]
+1
13:57:19 [laufer]
+1
13:57:46 [antoine]
+1
13:57:50 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
+1
13:57:58 [Makx]
+1
13:58:03 [annette_g]
RESOLVED: that we use Makx's suggested text for example 15, of "The Library of Congress publishes lists of ISO 639 languages as Linked Data (see [ISO639-1-LOC] for two-letter codes".
13:59:03 [Makx]
It was Antoine's proposal!
13:59:22 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: let's look at comment 12. Should we include a new benefit or just mention it in the introduction?
13:59:42 [annette_g]
annette_g: I feel like it should be a minor mention
14:00:00 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: I think we should put it in the "why" section. what do you think?
14:00:02 [BernadetteLoscio]
q?
14:00:05 [annette_g]
annette_g: I agree.
14:00:16 [Caroline]
+1
14:00:59 [annette_g]
PROPOSED: That we add a mention in the Why section to BP13 that most machine-readable standardized formats are also locale neutral.
14:01:06 [Caroline]
+1
14:01:08 [BernadetteLoscio]
+1
14:01:10 [antoine]
+1
14:01:13 [annette_g]
+1
14:01:18 [laufer]
+1
14:01:31 [annette_g]
RESOLVED: That we add a mention in the Why section to BP13 that most machine-readable standardized formats are also locale neutral.
14:02:21 [Makx]
we can add that.
14:02:33 [BernadetteLoscio]
https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#metadata
14:02:37 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: last comment is comment 18. They say that in BPs 1, 2, and 3 we say metadata must be provided for both humans and computers, but we don't say that it should be provided in multiple languages. I think we should add this in section 8.2
14:03:07 [Makx]
+q
14:03:15 [laufer]
but only metadata?
14:03:38 [annette_g]
annette_g: we can't tell people to use all the languages of the world.
14:03:55 [laufer]
We do not say that the datsets should be provided in multiple languages...
14:04:11 [BernadetteLoscio]
ack Makx
14:04:29 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: we can say multiple languages and include the language of the user
14:04:56 [Caroline]
I think laufer has a point that "We do not say that the datsets should be provided in multiple languages."
14:04:58 [BernadetteLoscio]
q?
14:04:58 [annette_g]
antoine: I think we should do only the first part
14:05:09 [antoine]
q+
14:05:28 [BernadetteLoscio]
ack antoine
14:05:42 [laufer]
+1 to makx
14:06:20 [annette_g]
Makx: I think we should do both
14:06:49 [annette_g]
BernadetteLoscio: can you send a message with a proposal?
14:07:03 [laufer]
bye all... nice to meet you again...
14:07:05 [annette_g]
Makx okay, I will
14:07:23 [laufer]
how to record the minutes
14:07:29 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
RRSAgent, make logs public
14:07:48 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
good week end!
14:07:55 [BernadetteLoscio]
thank you all!