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11:54:33 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/25-poe-irc
11:54:35 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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11:54:37 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
11:54:37 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
11:54:38 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
11:54:38 <trackbot> Date: 25 July 2016
11:54:46 <renato> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:54:58 <renato> present+ renato
11:55:11 <renato> Regrets: Michael, Sabrina, Phil, Ivan, Brian,James
11:55:19 <renato> chair: Renato
11:55:38 <Serena> present +serena
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12:00:50 <benws2> present+
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12:01:36 <victor> present+ victor
12:01:48 <renato> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160725
12:01:52 <victor> today I prefer *not* to scribe, as being a day-off in Spain I am not in my office
12:01:54 <CarolineB> present+ CarolineB
12:02:43 <renato> Scribe: serena
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12:04:06 <Serena> victor: are we supposed to distribute the link of the pubs on the experts to ask for feedback?
12:04:17 <smyles> present+ smyles
12:04:21 <Serena> renato: yes, feel free to send the link to everyone
12:04:31 <mmcrober> present+ mmcrober
12:04:57 <renato> Proposed: approve https://www.w3.org/2016/07/18-poe-minutes
12:05:03 <Serena> +1
12:05:09 <mmcrober> +1
12:05:09 <benws2> +1
12:05:11 <smyles> +1
12:05:13 <victor> +1
12:05:23 <renato> Resolved: https://www.w3.org/2016/07/18-poe-minutes
12:06:13 <Serena> renato: in the next few meetings, we will analyse sets of use cases, look at them and make them clearly understandable
12:06:35 <smyles> https://w3c.github.io/poe/ucr/#busProcRegulation
12:07:38 <Serena> renato: use case 4
12:09:11 <renato> serena: technical documents which are regulations (eg first use of product has these constraints)
12:09:56 <renato> ... also different versions of these documents
12:10:40 <smyles> q+
12:10:54 <renato> renato: what new req are needed for this UC?
12:13:54 <mmcrober> q+
12:14:32 <renato> requirement: the first usage
12:14:44 <renato> q?
12:14:55 <smyles> q-
12:15:02 <mmcrober> q-
12:15:15 <renato> mo: very broad UC
12:15:46 <renato> ... break down into lower level UCs...eg combinations of conditions
12:16:55 <renato> action: serena break down into lower level UCs
12:16:55 <trackbot> Created ACTION-19 - Break down into lower level ucs [on Serena Villata - due 2016-08-01].
12:18:46 <smyles> https://w3c.github.io/poe/ucr/#newsPermAndRest
12:18:55 <Serena> renato: use case 7
12:22:23 <Serena> smyles: new situation where you have two kind of people involved: editor, rights holders. They want to get paid for photos, you can use this if attribution. Editors: can I publish it with my mobile app? Can I combine this photo with others? They do need to know if there are restrictions, and so on. Often the relationship between the two kinds of users is a kind of repeated thing.
12:22:55 <Serena> ODRL allows the expression of permission and restrictions over a piece of content, but not support for expressing reuse.
12:23:28 <mmcrober> q+
12:23:49 <Serena> smyles: create a bundle of permission and restrictions.
12:23:54 <Serena> q?
12:25:00 <benws2> q+
12:25:27 <Serena> ack mmcrober
12:26:23 <Serena> smyles: with odrl you need an asset
12:27:18 <Serena> mmcrober: not in RDF. The inherent flexibility of RDF should apply to the other encodings as well.
12:28:36 <smyles> https://www.w3.org/ns/odrl/2/ODRL21#sec-examples
12:29:38 <Serena> smyles: for the editorial example: I have an action and a location, but it is not exactly a policy so no asset
12:30:44 <Serena> mmcrober: it is a philosophical issue. Similar to CC licenses.
12:31:44 <renato> q+
12:32:08 <Serena> mmcrober: interesting point: xml model of ODRL requires you to associate a set to an asset, then it is impossible to express a licence without RDF. Am I inventing a use case now?
12:32:15 <Serena> ack benws
12:32:18 <smyles> https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/model/2.1/
12:34:07 <Serena> benws: one of the issues is to identify a subset of data, there is not a clear answer to that. Answering this question is not a goal of the ODRL specification.
12:34:13 <Serena> q?
12:35:21 <Serena> smyles: when you see a photo, what are you identifying? we need to be clear on that
12:35:50 <Serena> victor: no special problem here, if the asset is properly defined
12:36:20 <Serena> benws: I want this policy to apply to the data returned by this query, how to represent that?
12:37:10 <Serena> victor: this example is implemented in practice. for use the asset is the result of the asset.
12:37:36 <Serena> but it was our interpretation
12:37:47 <renato> q-
12:39:03 <mmcrober> q+
12:39:27 <Serena> renato: if I do create a set, how do I refer to it in a real policy? We need to solve the problem of referring to the sets.
12:41:11 <Serena> mmcrober: new level of indirection. In RDF you have subject URI for free, differently from xml. If you define a set having an identifier (uid), that is missing in xml but not in rdf, tyou may express that the policy which applies is x.
12:42:08 <smyles> q+
12:42:12 <Serena> renato: q?
12:42:15 <mmcrober> ack mmcrober
12:42:22 <Serena> ack smyles
12:42:46 <renato> Clarify the concept of "Set" across all encodings
12:43:08 <mmcrober> q+
12:43:11 <Serena> smyles: clarify and making equivalent the encodings,  and multiple instances of content and be able to apply policies to a list of items.
12:43:22 <Serena> ack mmcrober
12:43:59 <Serena> mmcrober: the key thing of collection of set is to be able to apply a policy to all of the members as it is done to all the individuals.
12:44:43 <Serena> renato: party is an individual or a group?
12:45:08 <Serena> mmcrober: the complication with asset is that they can be combined
12:45:34 <Serena> : with assets if you grant the group it could apply to the combination of the asset or the group
12:46:11 <Serena> : there is plenty of situations where both of them are used, the latter has to be consistent with the former one
12:46:44 <Serena> victor: very nice to be able to specify flexible specifications, but abuse of the semantics
12:46:52 <CarolineB> q+
12:47:13 <Serena> mmcrober: URI schemas
12:48:17 <Serena> smyles: policy: you can use this if you pay me 30Euros? I can use anyone of these photos or some of them.
12:48:31 <Serena> renato: asset are the 50 photos
12:48:51 <Serena> q?
12:50:33 <Serena> ack CarolineB
12:52:11 <renato> Req: update Asset model to enable identification of group of items?
12:52:18 <Serena> mmcrober: if it is a group of asset then the policy applies to the asset as an entity
12:53:20 <Serena> renato: we will update the list of requirements with this additional requirements
12:54:08 <Serena> q?
12:54:36 <Serena> renato: use case 9
12:54:39 <smyles> https://w3c.github.io/poe/ucr/#baseProduct
12:55:44 <Serena> benws: for the moment if you have a price this is a permission, but if you have several permissions, and we bundle together with a price it is difficult.
12:56:07 <Serena> renato: like a duty on the entire policy
12:56:28 <Serena> : the duty or a payment on the whole policy
12:56:46 <Serena> benws: payment, but we express payment as duty
12:57:28 <Serena> mmcrober: it is possible that it is in the latest version of RDF
12:58:16 <Serena> victor: yes, the price can be applied to the rule
12:58:31 <Serena> mmcrober: the domain of the duty property is the only thing that could be missing
12:59:32 <Serena> : missing property domain
13:00:03 <Serena> renato: we will continue next week
13:00:38 <Serena> : the rest of the agenda items is about issues in the tracker
13:00:50 <Serena> renato: any other business?
13:01:29 <renato> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:01:29 <Serena> Serena has left #poe
13:01:40 <renato> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:01:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/25-poe-minutes.html renato
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