IRC log of sdwbp on 2016-07-13

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:59:04 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:59:06 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:59:06 [Zakim]
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13:59:08 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SDW
13:59:08 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot
13:59:09 [trackbot]
Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
13:59:09 [trackbot]
Date: 13 July 2016
13:59:33 [eparsons]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:59:36 [Payam]
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14:00:19 [ByronCinNZ]
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14:00:23 [jtandy]
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14:01:00 [ByronCinNZ]
present+ ByronCinNZ
14:01:22 [jtandy]
present+ jtandy
14:01:27 [eparsons]
Sorry everyone I will need to stay mostly on mute - at PRG Airport !!
14:01:36 [eparsons]
present+ eparsons
14:01:39 [Nicky]
present+ nicky
14:01:53 [Payam]
present+ Payam
14:01:58 [Linda]
present+ Linda
14:03:28 [Payam]
is the Webx call open? it asks me to wait...
14:03:41 [roba]
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14:03:43 [Linda]
i'm in payam
14:03:55 [jtandy]
payam: the webex is 643 407 318
14:04:01 [jtandy]
... should be open
14:04:02 [MattPerry]
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14:04:04 [roba]
14:04:12 [jtandy]
present+ roba
14:05:08 [MattPerry]
Hi, could someone please tell me what the webex password is?
14:05:36 [phila]
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14:06:15 [phila]
Meeting: SDW BP Sub Group
14:06:17 [MattPerry]
present+ MattPerry
14:06:22 [phila]
chair: jtandy
14:07:56 [eparsons]
scribe: eparsons
14:08:12 [jtandy]
regrets+ scottsimmons, frans, clemens, bill
14:08:33 [eparsons]
jtandy minutes from some time back...
14:08:44 [Linda]
14:09:29 [eparsons]
jtandy Proposed approve minutes
14:09:39 [jtandy]
14:09:41 [Linda]
14:09:45 [Nicky]
14:09:52 [phila]
+0 absent
14:10:02 [ByronCinNZ]
+0 absent
14:10:03 [eparsons]
Resolved minutes approved
14:10:06 [roba]
14:10:10 [Payam]
14:10:22 [eparsons]
jtandy Patent call
14:11:05 [eparsons]
jtandy moves on to body of agenda
14:11:12 [eparsons]
jtandy 2 main topics
14:11:14 [jtandy]
topic: Options for restructuring the BP document
14:12:07 [eparsons]
jtandy BP doc at moment... intro, 30 BP's functionally organised - feedback difficult to follow
14:12:37 [eparsons]
jtandy We could follow DWBP structure ? but discuss..
14:12:59 [eparsons]
Linda Looked at feedback - not much on structure
14:13:11 [Linda]
14:13:19 [eparsons]
Linda Order could be improved link above
14:13:37 [eparsons]
linda relationship with DWBP more explicit
14:13:58 [BartvanLeeuwen]
present+ BartvanLeeuwen
14:14:13 [Linda]
14:14:24 [eparsons]
Linda Roba feedback - List Daunting !! Not clear what BP to use for any case...
14:14:56 [eparsons]
Linda Which BP is relevant for each use case ?
14:14:57 [JoshLieberman]
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14:15:08 [Linda]
14:15:08 [JoshLieberman]
present+ JoshLieberman
14:15:29 [eparsons]
Linda Bill noted overlap between BP's
14:15:59 [eparsons]
Linda Bill BP's sometimes repeated...
14:16:26 [ChrisLittle__]
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14:16:32 [jtandy]
14:16:35 [eparsons]
jtandy Any other issues with current structure ?
14:16:36 [ChrisLittle__]
14:16:52 [eparsons]
jtandy None so moves on...
14:17:15 [eparsons]
jtandy Who do we expect to read ?
14:17:33 [ByronCinNZ]
14:17:37 [eparsons]
jtandy Is our doc stand alone ?
14:17:57 [eparsons]
jtandy What do we expect people to be able to do ?
14:18:02 [phila]
14:18:09 [Payam]
14:18:09 [eparsons]
jtandy as a result of reading the BP ?
14:18:11 [jtandy]
ack BartvanLeeuwen
14:18:14 [jtandy]
ack ByronCinNZ
14:18:43 [ChrisLittle__]
14:18:47 [phila]
present+ phila
14:18:50 [eparsons]
ByronCinNZ Who is a developer - so extension of DWBP
14:18:54 [phila]
q+ ChrisLittle__
14:18:59 [ChrisLittle__]
14:19:29 [eparsons]
ByronCinNZ read on web so links to other docs easy.. structure should be the same as much as possible
14:20:19 [eparsons]
ByronCinNZ Current SDW has things whcih should be in DWBP ?
14:20:47 [eparsons]
ByronCinNZ e.g.... Craw-ability
14:20:54 [JoshLieberman]
14:21:16 [ChrisLittle__]
14:21:30 [eparsons]
jtandy Devs target audience - so should be able to implement stuff ?
14:21:34 [roba]
14:22:00 [eparsons]
ByronCinNZ - Yes not all normative but provide a pointer
14:22:01 [jtandy]
14:22:07 [jtandy]
ack phila
14:22:38 [eparsons]
phila 2 things 1. Extending DWBP great but different community
14:23:07 [phila]
-> LDG conslusion
14:23:45 [eparsons]
phila - therefore some translation might be required ? Ref - Report of original workshop "where to pour concrete"
14:24:38 [eparsons]
phila Answer "What should I do question - more prescriptive "
14:25:12 [Payam]
+1 - agree with Phil
14:25:22 [eparsons]
jtandy - Needs to have value over time... can we do this and be prescriptive
14:26:16 [eparsons]
phila - Suggestions made is DWBP could be changed - so GeoJOSN may have been replaced in 10 years - allow people to make change at time
14:26:24 [jtandy]
14:26:29 [jtandy]
ack payam
14:27:34 [eparsons]
Payam +1 to phila - will be standalone - common points e.g. crawing may not actually be similar in the communities
14:27:53 [jtandy]
14:28:01 [Payam]
ack Payam
14:28:03 [jtandy]
ack ChrisLittle__
14:29:15 [eparsons]
ChrisLittle__ Do we say read DWBP first - people will not... If standalone needs section that points to DWBP and high light where things are different ?
14:29:34 [Payam]
ChrisLittle__ has a good suggestion: to list/summarise the DBP and provide links
14:29:36 [jtandy]
14:29:42 [jtandy]
ack JoshLieberman
14:29:45 [eparsons]
ChrisLittle__ Very concise summary of DWBP needed
14:30:39 [eparsons]
JoshLieberman Struggle a bit Spatial should be specialisation.. however stuff in our community not considered by DWBP
14:31:39 [eparsons]
JoshLieberman Follow DWBP when we can often general principles however - SDW needs to be more precise use this specific BP
14:32:14 [BartvanLeeuwen]
14:32:33 [jtandy]
14:32:36 [BartvanLeeuwen]
14:32:37 [jtandy]
ack roba
14:32:44 [eparsons]
jtandy Yes think I follow that - extension is a good term for the relationship between them
14:33:03 [eparsons]
roba As dev will have be pointed to this doc
14:33:56 [eparsons]
roba Consider the commissioner or manager of developer need more prescription - a business view
14:34:29 [eparsons]
jtandy Business person needs to know this is relevant to my domain ?
14:34:44 [eparsons]
roba Yes but with details for developer
14:34:53 [jtandy]
ack BartvanLeeuwen
14:35:02 [JoshLieberman]
DWBP points at a "data on the web" community. SDWBP points in two directions: the spatial data community and the data on the web community. It needs to draw each one towards the other.
14:35:14 [ChrisLittle__]
Suggest at least following DWBP could be 'specialised':1,2,4,7,13,14,15,18,23,28
14:35:41 [eparsons]
BartvanLeeuwen Different perspective SDI has solved problems of accessibility but not find-ability
14:36:28 [eparsons]
BartvanLeeuwen Semantics of data more than SDI is important and not covered by DWBP
14:36:45 [JoshLieberman]
The dw -> sdw perspective can specialize dwbp, but the sd ->sdw perspective needs to express dwbp as specializations of sd.
14:37:04 [eparsons]
jtandy SDI is not enough ?
14:37:34 [jtandy]
14:37:42 [eparsons]
BartvanLeeuwen Craw-able, more semantic content - these are the key points
14:38:43 [eparsons]
ChrisLittle__ Worked through BP's and identified ones where there is a spatial specialisation
14:39:33 [eparsons]
jtandy I heard doc is mainly for developers, but also need business view
14:40:10 [eparsons]
jtandy Point at our one doc - enough to get on with but with pointers to other places - can't assume other docs read
14:41:18 [eparsons]
jtandy outcome of reading doc publish SDI to broader web community, or publishing new data - not as generalised as DWBP
14:42:23 [JoshLieberman]
sd->sdw bp paradigm: This is how to apply a dwbp to spatial data... but this idea of multiple inheritance from sd and dw is too rigid for useful sdwbp.
14:42:26 [eparsons]
jtandy We can ref DWBP and in some cases we need to do you stuff for an implementer we need examples
14:43:35 [ByronCinNZ]
14:43:38 [jtandy]
14:43:42 [eparsons]
jtandy Narrative will allow dev to identify a role and find appropriate BP's and linked details from there
14:43:47 [ChrisLittle__]
14:43:49 [roba_]
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14:43:59 [Linda]
14:44:03 [eparsons]
jtandy New section of examples needed therefore
14:44:08 [JoshLieberman]
It's useful to discuss "realizing" rather than "specializing" more general concepts.
14:44:14 [BartvanLeeuwen]
14:44:15 [jtandy]
ack Linda
14:44:16 [eparsons]
jtandy Useful discussion
14:44:37 [eparsons]
Linda Need a resolution ?
14:45:26 [eparsons]
Linda Need an agreed approach
14:46:03 [eparsons]
phila - Doc should be standalone but not repeat content
14:46:22 [ByronCinNZ]
14:46:34 [eparsons]
Linda Yes that helps...
14:47:13 [eparsons]
jtandy SDWBP is first entry point - not assumption of prior work
14:47:18 [jtandy]
ack ByronCinNZ
14:47:46 [phila]
q+ to caution against numbers
14:47:59 [eparsons]
ByronCinNZ strucuure mirrors DWBP helpful for devs
14:48:05 [jtandy]
ack phila
14:48:05 [Zakim]
phila, you wanted to caution against numbers
14:48:13 [jtandy]
14:48:34 [JoshLieberman]
I would like to see SDWBP to have two entry points: 1) for those bringing spatial data to the web and 2) for those making data on the web spatial. 2) might benefit from a closer relationship to the DWBP, but not 1)
14:49:10 [eparsons]
phila DWBP is at candidate stage - so looking for examples of implementation - could be that some may need to be removed
14:49:32 [jtandy]
ack BartvanLeeuwen
14:49:34 [eparsons]
phila use names therefore not numbers when referencing
14:49:59 [JoshLieberman]
A little surprising that BP's don't have URI's ;>)
14:50:40 [eparsons]
BartvanLeeuwen fading in and out on vox
14:50:56 [BartvanLeeuwen]
I'll type
14:51:15 [BartvanLeeuwen]
Nicky and I prepared a demo for the plenary, but its a bout a proposed BP
14:51:21 [BartvanLeeuwen]
should it be in the BP call then ?
14:51:58 [eparsons]
jtandy Take at Pleanary call - Agreed say ed
14:52:00 [JoshLieberman]
14:52:22 [jtandy]
ack JoshLieberman
14:52:37 [eparsons]
JoshLieberman Agenda item ?
14:53:17 [eparsons]
JoshLieberman Update to GeoSPARQL as spatial ontology - feedback useful
14:53:41 [eparsons]
JoshLieberman We write OGC charter but need feedback from this group
14:54:59 [eparsons]
jtandy Both items add to plenary call
14:55:25 [eparsons]
jtandy JoshLieberman 2 entry points good idea
14:55:35 [jtandy]
PROPOSAL: The BP doc will be undertsandable as a standalone doc, although it will refer to more detail in other docs
14:55:50 [phila]
PROPOSAL: The BP doc will be undertsandable as a first entry point, although it will refer to more detail in other docs
14:55:54 [eparsons]
14:55:59 [jtandy]
14:56:05 [phila]
14:56:05 [ByronCinNZ]
14:56:06 [MattPerry]
14:56:09 [Linda]
14:56:11 [roba_]
14:56:11 [JoshLieberman]
14:56:13 [ChrisLittle__]
14:56:18 [phila]
RESOLUTION: The BP doc will be undertsandable as a first entry point, although it will refer to more detail in other docs
14:56:33 [phila]
PROPOSAL: This document is primarily for developers
14:56:37 [eparsons]
14:57:03 [phila]
PROPOSAL: This document is primarily for developers, both those coming from a geospatial world and those coming from a Web world
14:57:08 [jtandy]
14:57:10 [ByronCinNZ]
14:57:10 [ChrisLittle__]
14:57:11 [Linda]
14:57:12 [phila]
14:57:15 [MattPerry]
14:57:20 [JoshLieberman]
14:57:20 [phila]
RESOLUTION: This document is primarily for developers, both those coming from a geospatial world and those coming from a Web world
14:57:37 [phila]
PROPOSED: Our examples will be necessarily prescriptive
14:58:07 [phila]
PROPOSED: Our possible approaches to implementation will be necessarily prescriptive
14:58:10 [JoshLieberman]
with regard to vocabulary and format and ...?
14:58:23 [jtandy]
14:58:27 [jtandy]
14:58:33 [Payam]
14:59:05 [BartvanLeeuwen]
14:59:08 [Linda]
14:59:18 [ChrisLittle__]
14:59:22 [ByronCinNZ]
14:59:28 [JoshLieberman]
14:59:32 [MattPerry]
14:59:33 [roba_]
14:59:34 [ChrisLittle__]
14:59:44 [phila]
RESOLUTION: Our possible approaches to implementation will be necessarily prescriptive
14:59:58 [eparsons]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate eparsons
15:00:56 [jtandy]
15:01:02 [jtandy]
ack ChrisLittle__
15:01:35 [jtandy]
15:01:36 [eparsons]
jtandy - Second item ..
15:02:17 [eparsons]
jtandy Discuss proposal on email - brutal consolidation !!
15:02:36 [eparsons]
jtandy - Thanks everyone !!
15:02:43 [eparsons]
rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:43 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate eparsons
15:02:46 [BartvanLeeuwen]
thx guys
15:02:51 [JoshLieberman]
15:02:54 [BartvanLeeuwen]
jtandy: saw my gmail mail ?
15:02:54 [eparsons]
thanks everone
15:02:55 [jtandy]
15:02:56 [phila]
RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:02:56 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
15:03:05 [MattPerry]
15:03:13 [ChrisLittle__]
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