13:59:04 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #sdwbp
13:59:04 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-sdwbp-irc
13:59:06 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
13:59:06 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #sdwbp
13:59:08 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
13:59:08 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
13:59:09 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
13:59:09 <trackbot> Date: 13 July 2016
13:59:33 <eparsons> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:59:36 <Payam> Payam has joined #sdwbp
14:00:19 <ByronCinNZ> ByronCinNZ has joined #sdwbp
14:00:23 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdwbp
14:01:00 <ByronCinNZ> present+ ByronCinNZ
14:01:22 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
14:01:27 <eparsons> Sorry everyone I will need to stay mostly on mute - at PRG Airport !!
14:01:36 <eparsons> present+ eparsons
14:01:39 <Nicky> present+ nicky
14:01:53 <Payam> present+ Payam
14:01:58 <Linda> present+ Linda
14:03:28 <Payam> is the Webx call open? it asks me to wait...
14:03:41 <roba> roba has joined #sdwbp
14:03:43 <Linda> i'm in payam
14:03:55 <jtandy> payam: the webex is 643 407 318
14:04:01 <jtandy> ... should be open
14:04:02 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdwbp
14:04:04 <roba> present+
14:04:12 <jtandy> present+ roba
14:05:08 <MattPerry> Hi, could someone please tell me what the webex password is?
14:05:36 <phila> phila has joined #sdwbp
14:06:15 <phila> Meeting: SDW BP Sub Group
14:06:17 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
14:06:22 <phila> chair: jtandy
14:07:56 <eparsons> scribe: eparsons
14:08:12 <jtandy> regrets+ scottsimmons, frans, clemens, bill
14:08:33 <eparsons> jtandy minutes from some time back...
14:08:44 <Linda> https://www.w3.org/2016/06/15-sdwbp-minutes
14:09:29 <eparsons> jtandy Proposed approve minutes
14:09:39 <jtandy> +1
14:09:41 <Linda> +1
14:09:45 <Nicky> +1
14:09:52 <phila> +0 absent
14:10:02 <ByronCinNZ> +0 absent
14:10:03 <eparsons> Resolved minutes approved
14:10:06 <roba> +1
14:10:10 <Payam> +0
14:10:22 <eparsons> jtandy Patent call
14:11:05 <eparsons> jtandy moves on to body of agenda
14:11:12 <eparsons> jtandy 2 main topics
14:11:14 <jtandy> topic: Options for restructuring the BP document
14:12:07 <eparsons> jtandy BP doc at moment... intro, 30 BP's functionally organised - feedback difficult to follow
14:12:37 <eparsons> jtandy We could follow DWBP structure ? but discuss..
14:12:59 <eparsons> Linda Looked at feedback - not much on structure
14:13:11 <Linda> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-comments/2016Feb/0038.html
14:13:19 <eparsons> Linda Order could be improved link above
14:13:37 <eparsons> linda relationship with DWBP more explicit
14:13:58 <BartvanLeeuwen> present+ BartvanLeeuwen
14:14:13 <Linda> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-comments/2016Feb/0021.html
14:14:24 <eparsons> Linda Roba feedback - List Daunting !! Not clear what BP to use for any case...
14:14:56 <eparsons> Linda Which BP is relevant for each use case ?
14:14:57 <JoshLieberman> JoshLieberman has joined #sdwbp
14:15:08 <Linda> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Jan/0040.html
14:15:08 <JoshLieberman> present+ JoshLieberman
14:15:29 <eparsons> Linda Bill noted overlap between BP's
14:15:59 <eparsons> Linda Bill BP's sometimes repeated...
14:16:26 <ChrisLittle__> ChrisLittle__ has joined #Sdwbp
14:16:32 <jtandy> q?
14:16:35 <eparsons> jtandy Any other issues with current structure ?
14:16:36 <ChrisLittle__> Present+
14:16:52 <eparsons> jtandy None so moves on...
14:17:15 <eparsons> jtandy Who do we expect to read ?
14:17:33 <ByronCinNZ> q+
14:17:37 <eparsons> jtandy Is our doc stand alone ?
14:17:57 <eparsons> jtandy What do we expect people to be able to do ?
14:18:02 <phila> q+
14:18:09 <Payam> +q
14:18:09 <eparsons> jtandy as a result of reading the BP ?
14:18:11 <jtandy> ack BartvanLeeuwen
14:18:14 <jtandy> ack ByronCinNZ
14:18:43 <ChrisLittle__> Q
14:18:47 <phila> present+ phila
14:18:50 <eparsons> ByronCinNZ Who is a developer - so extension of DWBP
14:18:54 <phila> q+ ChrisLittle__
14:18:59 <ChrisLittle__> Q+
14:19:29 <eparsons> ByronCinNZ read on web so links to other docs easy.. structure should be the same as much as possible
14:20:19 <eparsons> ByronCinNZ Current SDW has things whcih should be in DWBP ?
14:20:47 <eparsons> ByronCinNZ e.g.... Craw-ability
14:20:54 <JoshLieberman> q+
14:21:16 <ChrisLittle__> S/Craw/Crawl/
14:21:30 <eparsons> jtandy Devs target audience - so should be able to implement stuff ?
14:21:34 <roba> q+
14:22:00 <eparsons> ByronCinNZ - Yes not all normative but provide a pointer
14:22:01 <jtandy> q?
14:22:07 <jtandy> ack phila
14:22:38 <eparsons> phila 2 things 1. Extending DWBP great but different community
14:23:07 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2014/03/lgd/report#conclusion LDG conslusion
14:23:45 <eparsons> phila - therefore some translation might be required ? Ref - Report of original workshop "where to pour concrete"
14:24:38 <eparsons> phila Answer "What should I do question - more prescriptive "
14:25:12 <Payam> +1 - agree with Phil
14:25:22 <eparsons> jtandy - Needs to have value over time... can we do this and be prescriptive
14:26:16 <eparsons> phila - Suggestions made is DWBP could be changed - so GeoJOSN may have been replaced in 10 years - allow people to make change at time
14:26:24 <jtandy> q?
14:26:29 <jtandy> ack payam
14:27:34 <eparsons> Payam +1 to phila - will be standalone - common points e.g. crawing may not actually be similar in the communities
14:27:53 <jtandy> q?
14:28:01 <Payam> ack Payam
14:28:03 <jtandy> ack ChrisLittle__
14:29:15 <eparsons> ChrisLittle__ Do we say read DWBP first - people will not... If standalone needs section that points to DWBP and high light where things are different ?
14:29:34 <Payam> ChrisLittle__  has a good suggestion: to list/summarise the DBP and provide links
14:29:36 <jtandy> q?
14:29:42 <jtandy> ack JoshLieberman
14:29:45 <eparsons> ChrisLittle__ Very concise summary of DWBP needed
14:30:39 <eparsons> JoshLieberman Struggle a bit Spatial should be specialisation.. however stuff in our community not considered by DWBP
14:31:39 <eparsons> JoshLieberman Follow DWBP when we can often general principles however - SDW needs to be more precise use this specific BP
14:32:14 <BartvanLeeuwen> q?
14:32:33 <jtandy> q?
14:32:36 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
14:32:37 <jtandy> ack roba
14:32:44 <eparsons> jtandy Yes think I follow that - extension is a good term for the relationship between them
14:33:03 <eparsons> roba As dev will have be pointed to this doc
14:33:56 <eparsons> roba Consider the commissioner or manager of developer need more prescription - a business view
14:34:29 <eparsons> jtandy Business person needs to know this is relevant to my domain ?
14:34:44 <eparsons> roba Yes but with details for developer
14:34:53 <jtandy> ack BartvanLeeuwen
14:35:02 <JoshLieberman> DWBP points at a "data on the web" community. SDWBP points in two directions: the spatial data community and the data on the web community. It needs to draw each one towards the other.
14:35:14 <ChrisLittle__> Suggest at least following DWBP could be 'specialised':1,2,4,7,13,14,15,18,23,28
14:35:41 <eparsons> BartvanLeeuwen Different perspective SDI has solved problems of accessibility but not find-ability
14:36:28 <eparsons> BartvanLeeuwen Semantics of data more than SDI is important and not covered by DWBP
14:36:45 <JoshLieberman> The dw -> sdw perspective can specialize dwbp, but the sd ->sdw perspective needs to express dwbp as specializations of sd.
14:37:04 <eparsons> jtandy SDI is not enough ?
14:37:34 <jtandy> q?
14:37:42 <eparsons> BartvanLeeuwen Craw-able, more semantic content - these are the key points
14:38:43 <eparsons> ChrisLittle__ Worked through BP's and identified ones where there is a spatial specialisation
14:39:33 <eparsons> jtandy I heard doc is mainly for developers, but also need business view
14:40:10 <eparsons> jtandy Point at our one doc - enough to get on with but with pointers to other places - can't assume other docs read
14:41:18 <eparsons> jtandy outcome of reading doc publish SDI to broader web community, or publishing new data - not as generalised as DWBP
14:42:23 <JoshLieberman> sd->sdw bp paradigm: This is how to apply a dwbp to spatial data... but this idea of multiple inheritance from sd and dw is too rigid for useful sdwbp.
14:42:26 <eparsons> jtandy We can ref DWBP and in some cases we need to do you stuff for an implementer we need examples
14:43:35 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:43:38 <jtandy> q?
14:43:42 <eparsons> jtandy Narrative will allow dev to identify a role and find appropriate  BP's and linked details from there
14:43:47 <ChrisLittle__> +1
14:43:49 <roba_> roba_ has joined #sdwbp
14:43:59 <Linda> q+
14:44:03 <eparsons> jtandy New section of examples needed therefore
14:44:08 <JoshLieberman> It's useful to discuss "realizing" rather than "specializing" more general concepts.
14:44:14 <BartvanLeeuwen> q+
14:44:15 <jtandy> ack Linda
14:44:16 <eparsons> jtandy Useful discussion
14:44:37 <eparsons> Linda Need a resolution ?
14:45:26 <eparsons> Linda Need an agreed approach
14:46:03 <eparsons> phila - Doc should be standalone but not repeat content
14:46:22 <ByronCinNZ> q+
14:46:34 <eparsons> Linda Yes that helps...
14:47:13 <eparsons> jtandy SDWBP is first entry point - not assumption of prior work
14:47:18 <jtandy> ack ByronCinNZ
14:47:46 <phila> q+ to caution against numbers
14:47:59 <eparsons> ByronCinNZ strucuure mirrors DWBP helpful for devs
14:48:05 <jtandy> ack phila
14:48:05 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to caution against numbers
14:48:13 <jtandy> q?
14:48:34 <JoshLieberman> I would like to see SDWBP to have two entry points: 1) for those bringing spatial data to the web and 2) for those making data on the web spatial. 2) might benefit from a closer relationship to the DWBP, but not 1)
14:49:10 <eparsons> phila DWBP is at candidate stage - so looking for examples of implementation - could be that some may need to be removed
14:49:32 <jtandy> ack BartvanLeeuwen
14:49:34 <eparsons> phila use names therefore not numbers when referencing
14:49:59 <JoshLieberman> A little surprising that BP's don't have URI's ;>)
14:50:40 <eparsons> BartvanLeeuwen fading in and out on vox
14:50:56 <BartvanLeeuwen> I'll type
14:51:15 <BartvanLeeuwen> Nicky and I prepared a demo for the plenary, but its a bout a proposed BP
14:51:21 <BartvanLeeuwen> should it be in the BP call then ?
14:51:58 <eparsons> jtandy Take at Pleanary call - Agreed say ed
14:52:00 <JoshLieberman> q+
14:52:22 <jtandy> ack JoshLieberman
14:52:37 <eparsons> JoshLieberman Agenda item ?
14:53:17 <eparsons> JoshLieberman Update to GeoSPARQL as spatial ontology - feedback useful
14:53:41 <eparsons> JoshLieberman We write OGC charter but need feedback from this group
14:54:59 <eparsons> jtandy Both items add to plenary call
14:55:25 <eparsons> jtandy JoshLieberman 2 entry points good idea
14:55:35 <jtandy> PROPOSAL: The BP doc will be undertsandable as a standalone doc, although it will refer to more detail in other docs
14:55:50 <phila> PROPOSAL: The BP doc will be undertsandable as a first entry point, although it will refer to more detail in other docs
14:55:54 <eparsons> +1
14:55:59 <jtandy> +1
14:56:05 <phila> +1
14:56:05 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:56:06 <MattPerry> +1
14:56:09 <Linda> +1
14:56:11 <roba_> +1
14:56:11 <JoshLieberman> +1
14:56:13 <ChrisLittle__> +1
14:56:18 <phila> RESOLUTION: The BP doc will be undertsandable as a first entry point, although it will refer to more detail in other docs
14:56:33 <phila> PROPOSAL: This document is primarily for developers
14:56:37 <eparsons> +1
14:57:03 <phila> PROPOSAL: This document is primarily for developers, both those coming from a geospatial world and those coming from a Web world
14:57:08 <jtandy> +1
14:57:10 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:57:10 <ChrisLittle__> +1
14:57:11 <Linda> +1
14:57:12 <phila> +1
14:57:15 <MattPerry> +1
14:57:20 <JoshLieberman> +1
14:57:20 <phila> RESOLUTION: This document is primarily for developers, both those coming from a geospatial world and those coming from a Web world
14:57:37 <phila> PROPOSED: Our examples will be necessarily prescriptive
14:58:07 <phila> PROPOSED: Our possible approaches to implementation will be necessarily prescriptive
14:58:10 <JoshLieberman> with regard to vocabulary and format and ...?
14:58:23 <jtandy> +!
14:58:27 <jtandy> +1
14:58:33 <Payam> +1
14:59:05 <BartvanLeeuwen> +1
14:59:08 <Linda> +1
14:59:18 <ChrisLittle__> Q+
14:59:22 <ByronCinNZ> +1
14:59:28 <JoshLieberman> +1
14:59:32 <MattPerry> +1
14:59:33 <roba_> +1
14:59:34 <ChrisLittle__> +1
14:59:44 <phila> RESOLUTION: Our possible approaches to implementation will be necessarily prescriptive
14:59:58 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:59:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-sdwbp-minutes.html eparsons
15:00:56 <jtandy> q?
15:01:02 <jtandy> ack ChrisLittle__
15:01:35 <jtandy> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_consolidation_proposal
15:01:36 <eparsons> jtandy - Second item ..
15:02:17 <eparsons> jtandy Discuss proposal on email - brutal consolidation !!
15:02:36 <eparsons> jtandy - Thanks everyone !!
15:02:43 <eparsons> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-sdwbp-minutes.html eparsons
15:02:46 <BartvanLeeuwen> thx guys
15:02:51 <JoshLieberman> bye+
15:02:54 <BartvanLeeuwen> jtandy: saw my gmail mail ?
15:02:54 <eparsons> thanks everone
15:02:55 <jtandy> bye
15:02:56 <phila> RRSAgent, generate minutes
15:02:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-sdwbp-minutes.html phila
15:03:05 <MattPerry> bye
15:03:13 <ChrisLittle__> Bye
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