15:46:46 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
15:46:46 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-irc
15:46:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:46:50 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
15:46:50 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:46:51 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
15:46:51 <trackbot> Date: 13 July 2016
15:47:14 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:47:14 <Zakim> Present: Michiel_Bijl, Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, MichaelC, JF
15:47:16 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, janina, chaals, ShaneM, Zakim, MichaelC, slightlyoff, MichielBijl, trackbot, joanie
15:47:28 <janina> agenda?
15:47:35 <janina> zakim, clear agenda
15:47:35 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:47:40 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
15:47:40 <janina> agenda+ Epub A11y Specs http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0017.html
15:47:43 <janina> agenda+ TPAC 2016 Planning [See Below]
15:47:46 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8
15:47:48 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
15:47:51 <janina> agenda+ Action-2046 CSS, CSS-AAM & TF http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0018.html
15:47:54 <janina> agenda+ Action-2011 -- Michiel, Janina [See Below]
15:47:56 <janina> agenda+ Action-2057 CSS Properties http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0039.html
15:47:59 <janina> agenda+ Decision Policy Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy
15:48:02 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:48:04 <janina> agenda+ next and future meetings
15:48:07 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:50:44 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #apa
15:51:23 <janina>  zakim, next item
15:51:23 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
15:52:51 <janina> present+ Janina
15:52:54 <janina> Chair: Janina
15:53:58 <ShaneM> present+ ShaneM
16:01:06 <cyns> cyns has joined #apa
16:01:10 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
16:03:09 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC
16:03:25 <LJWatson> present+ LJWatson
16:03:42 <janina> regrets: Gottfried
16:04:58 <LJWatson> scribenick: LJWatson
16:06:32 <LJWatson> JS: Any news?
16:06:42 <LJWatson> zakim, take up item 2
16:06:42 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Epub A11y Specs http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0017.html" taken up [from janina]
16:07:02 <LJWatson> JS: Request to look at ePub specs.
16:07:03 <Rich> Rich has joined #apa
16:07:23 <LJWatson> ... Not something we'd typically do in APA.
16:07:39 <LJWatson> ... With IDPF likely to join W3C, this seems like something we should do though.
16:07:46 <MichaelC> regrets+ Michiel
16:08:28 <Rich> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:10:25 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
16:10:25 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
16:10:55 <LJWatson> zakim, close item 1
16:10:55 <Zakim> agendum 1, preview agenda with items from two minutes, closed
16:10:56 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:10:56 <Zakim> 3. TPAC 2016 Planning [from See Below via janina]
16:11:02 <LJWatson> zakim, agenda?
16:11:02 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda:
16:11:03 <Zakim> 3. TPAC 2016 Planning [from See Below via janina]
16:11:03 <Zakim> 4. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8 [from janina]
16:11:03 <Zakim> 5. new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html [from janina]
16:11:04 <Zakim> 6. Action-2046 CSS, CSS-AAM & TF http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0018.html [from janina]
16:11:04 <Zakim> 7. Action-2011 -- Michiel, Janina [from See Below via janina]
16:11:04 <Zakim> 9. Decision Policy Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy [from janina]
16:11:04 <Zakim> 10. Other Business [from janina]
16:11:04 <Zakim> 11. next and future meetings [from janina]
16:11:05 <Zakim> 12. be done [from janina]
16:11:08 <fesch> fesch has joined #apa
16:11:10 <LJWatson> zakim, take up item 3
16:11:11 <Zakim> agendum 3. "TPAC 2016 Planning" taken up [from See Below via janina]
16:11:25 <fesch> present+ fesch
16:11:39 <LJWatson> JS: We have a wiki with our potential agenda.
16:11:52 <LJWatson> ... Expecting a fair amount of cross-WG meetings.
16:12:18 <LJWatson> RS: The COGA TF would like to meet.
16:12:25 <cyns> can someone put in the url for the wiki
16:13:53 <LJWatson> ... Was thinking of Tuesday and Thursday, because the TF has requested a two hour block.
16:14:16 <Rich> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:14:20 <LJWatson> JS: Think a joint ARIA/APA meeting might be an idea, possibly with WCAG too.
16:15:41 <LJWatson> zakim, close item 3
16:15:41 <Zakim> agendum 3, TPAC 2016 Planning, closed
16:15:42 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:15:42 <Zakim> 4. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8 [from janina]
16:15:45 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
16:15:45 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8" taken up [from janina]
16:16:11 <LJWatson> action-2069?
16:16:11 <trackbot> action-2069 -- Janina Sajka to Follow up on http://www.w3.org/tr/media-source/ media source extensions -- due 2016-07-13 -- OPEN
16:16:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2069
16:16:22 <LJWatson> JS: No progress.
16:16:27 <LJWatson> action-2067?
16:16:27 <trackbot> action-2067 -- Janina Sajka to Draft comment on https://www.w3.org/tr/css-color-4/ css color module level 4 requesting a11y impacts section particularly with transparency and impacts on color contrast measurement -- due 2016-07-13 -- OPEN
16:16:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2067
16:16:54 <cyns> TPAC wiki: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2016
16:17:12 <LJWatson> JS: Would like to pass this on. Don't feel best qualified to do it.
16:17:22 <LJWatson> CS: Looked at this action, and not sure it's relevant.
16:17:50 <LJWatson> JS: We wanted them to be mindful of contrast and point to relevant WCAG techs, and the same for transparencies.
16:18:08 <LJWatson> CS: Needs WCAG techs? Can add to the other CSS activities.
16:18:18 <LJWatson> JS: Yes, or if not new techs then pointers to existing ones.
16:18:26 <LJWatson> MC: Think we need new techs for transparencies.
16:21:27 <LJWatson> JS: Ok, will keep this action.
16:21:33 <LJWatson> action:2063?
16:21:42 <LJWatson> JS: Done. Some points for discussion though.
16:22:11 <LJWatson> action-2068?
16:22:11 <trackbot> action-2068 -- John Foliot to Follow up on eme comments from before https://www.w3.org/tr/encrypted-media/ encrypted media extensions -- due 2016-07-13 -- OPEN
16:22:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2068
16:22:24 <LJWatson> MC: No JF today.
16:22:28 <LJWatson> action-2054?
16:22:28 <trackbot> action-2054 -- Cynthia Shelly to Review css generated content module level 3 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-content-3/ -- due 2016-07-08 -- OPEN
16:22:28 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2054
16:22:51 <LJWatson> CS: No progress. Skimmed it but as part of AAM.
16:23:18 <LJWatson> LW: Have looked at this, and agree with Cyns.
16:24:40 <MichaelC> close action-2054
16:24:40 <trackbot> Closed action-2054.
16:24:47 <LJWatson> action-2046?
16:24:47 <trackbot> action-2046 -- Cynthia Shelly to Add headings for ordering in css aam http://github/w3c/aria/css-aam/css-aam.html -- due 2016-06-30 -- OPEN
16:24:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2046
16:24:58 <LJWatson> JS: On the agenda for later.
16:25:19 <LJWatson> CS: Not in the AAM doc. Became clear it isn't ready for spec format yet.
16:25:31 <MichaelC> close action-2046
16:25:31 <trackbot> Closed action-2046.
16:25:51 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
16:25:51 <Zakim> agendum 5. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
16:26:11 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/owl-time/ Time Ontology in OWL
16:26:45 <LJWatson> SM: Out of our scope.
16:26:49 <LJWatson> JS: Agreed.
16:27:25 <LJWatson> MC: There is EME - JF has the action open. It's in CR - but suggest we leave it for the moment.
16:27:26 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/ CSS Counter Styles Level 3
16:27:30 <LJWatson> JS: Yes.
16:27:50 <LJWatson> MC: Also CSS Counter Styles Level 3.
16:28:13 <LJWatson> ... New spec. Seems to be related to the existing counter styles spec.
16:28:55 <LJWatson> s/CSS Counter Styles/CSS Custom Counter Styles /
16:29:00 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:29:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html LJWatson
16:29:09 <MichaelC> -> http://www.w3.org/TR/predefined-counter-styles/ Custom Counter Styles
16:29:44 <LJWatson> ... Think it's "no need for review".
16:30:25 <LJWatson> ... We sent comments in 2013 for the original counter styles spec.
16:30:34 <LJWatson> ... We dropped the ball, so need to pick up on it again.
16:30:42 <LJWatson> JS: Did we ask Lisa to follow up on the repsonse?
16:30:45 <LJWatson> MC: Not sure.
16:30:49 <LJWatson> JS: Will follow up with Lisa.
16:32:16 <MichaelC> action: Lisa to pick up the thread with https://www.w3.org/TR/css-counter-styles-3/ CSS Counter Styles Level 3 on needing reply to their response to us
16:32:16 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2070 - Pick up the thread with https://www.w3.org/tr/css-counter-styles-3/ css counter styles level 3 on needing reply to their response to us [on Lisa Seeman - due 2016-07-20].
16:33:13 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/wake-lock/ Wake Lock API
16:33:34 <LJWatson> MC: Have sent a reply to say we don't have comments.
16:34:06 <LJWatson> SM: Related item... As Respec is evolving, we're adding a live "linter".
16:34:24 <LJWatson> ... It will advise you when you're not doing things correctly. It will include advice on accessibility.
16:35:01 <LJWatson> ... If anyone here is interested in helping with the advice, come on along.
16:35:12 <LJWatson> MC: Is there a pointer?
16:36:08 <ShaneM> https://github.com/w3c/respec/pull/866
16:36:16 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:36:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html LJWatson
16:36:35 <ShaneM> ACTION: ShaneM to notify APA and ARIA Editors and possibly WAI-IG about this opportunity.
16:36:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2071 - Notify apa and aria editors and possibly wai-ig about this opportunity. [on Shane McCarron - due 2016-07-20].
16:36:47 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
16:36:47 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Action-2046 CSS, CSS-AAM & TF http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jul/0018.html" taken up [from janina]
16:37:10 <fesch> q+
16:37:23 <MichaelC> q+ to ask about moving CSS-AAM to a new repository
16:37:28 <cyns> https://github.com/w3c/aria/wiki/CSS-AAM-Potential-Features
16:37:40 <LJWatson> CS: Would like everyone to look at this.
16:37:47 <LJWatson> ... There are categories.
16:37:47 <MichaelC> q+ to mention want to get the specs in the wiki tagged according to these categories
16:37:52 <janina> q?
16:37:54 <LJWatson> ... CSS AAM, and WCAG.
16:38:10 <janina> ack f
16:38:31 <LJWatson> FE: Sent an editorial note to the list.
16:38:45 <LJWatson> ... Would like a category of things we want the TF to explore.
16:39:00 <LJWatson> CS: Was thinking about it as a category - has the same heading level.
16:39:10 <LJWatson> ... Want to introduce this softly.
16:39:29 <LJWatson> +1 to Cyns softly.
16:40:29 <LJWatson> JS: When IndieUI was running, we thought media queries could play a role in personalisation.
16:40:34 <fesch> ack me
16:40:52 <LJWatson> ... There wasn't CSS consensus though. It's unclear to me, to what degree media queries might be a solution.
16:41:11 <LJWatson> CS: Maybe a category for things that might result in new CSS features?
16:41:14 <LJWatson> JS: Yes.
16:41:48 <LJWatson> ... Thank you for taking a sensitive approach with this Cynthia.
16:42:48 <LJWatson> CS: In the CSS AAM there are two further categories.
16:43:07 <LJWatson> .. Navigation and order, with several related specs.
16:43:58 <LJWatson> ... Consensus seems to be that the current status quo is a feature not a bug.
16:44:23 <LJWatson> ... Other category is stuff that impacts the acc APIs.
16:44:29 <LJWatson> rrsagent, makeminutes
16:44:29 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'makeminutes', LJWatson.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:44:38 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:44:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html LJWatson
16:44:40 <janina> q?
16:45:08 <LJWatson> ... There are places for WCAG techniques.
16:45:39 <LJWatson> ... Did not read all of CSS Level 2. Much has been superceeded by Level 3, but need to talk to the CSS WG to understand that relationship.
16:46:06 <LJWatson> MC: We have info in our wiki about some of these specs.
16:46:16 <LJWatson> FE: Media queries may help COGA too.
16:46:18 <LJWatson> CS: Ok.
16:46:54 <MichaelC> q+ to note look through our reviews this year on CSS specs for additional notes https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:CSS
16:47:09 <MichaelC> ack me
16:47:09 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to ask about moving CSS-AAM to a new repository and to mention want to get the specs in the wiki tagged according to these categories and to note look through
16:47:12 <Zakim> ... our reviews this year on CSS specs for additional notes https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:CSS
16:47:46 <LJWatson> MC: ARIA editors are planning to split their specs into individual repos. Should we take this approach with the CSS AAM from the outset?
16:48:07 <LJWatson> CS: Seems reasonable.
16:48:15 <LJWatson> +1 to individual repo from the outset.
16:48:29 <joanie> +1 to individual repo
16:50:00 <LJWatson> JS: For now think it helps to say this is speculative.
16:50:14 <LJWatson> MC: The Github wiki is not part of the spec code. It's a separate thing.
16:51:18 <LJWatson> ... The other issue, in the wiki I'm using category tags to track things.
16:51:35 <LJWatson> ... Already a category for things to be addressed by the AAM, and things to be addressed in Nav/Order.
16:51:43 <LJWatson> ... It will help if we can use these tags.
16:52:07 <MichaelC> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Category:CSS
16:52:08 <LJWatson> ... Also, any CSS spec we've looked at this year, we have notes on in our wiki.
16:52:15 <LJWatson> ... Pointer ^^.
16:52:30 <LJWatson> RRSAgent: q+
16:52:30 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'q+', LJWatson.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:52:56 <LJWatson> MC: Are we ready for the TF?
16:53:09 <LJWatson> CSS: Think we want to reach out gently to the CSS WG.
16:53:43 <LJWatson> ... We want them to feel part of creating this.
16:55:24 <Rich> q+
16:56:31 <MichaelC> ack r
16:56:57 <LJWatson> LW: I think there are interested people in the CSS WG. Have had some good conversations with a few different people recently.
16:57:06 <LJWatson> RS: Perhaps a conversation for TPAC?
16:57:25 <MichaelC> q+ to say +1 to talk at TPAC, but don´t wan to wait until then to get things moving
16:57:28 <LJWatson> ... At IBM we have teams wanting to use latest CSS features, but we're restricted because they're not accessible.
16:57:38 <LJWatson> ... That's a thing that's only going to get worse.
16:57:52 <LJWatson> ... Wonder if they realise there are companies finding this an obstacle.
16:58:16 <LJWatson> CS: Could your team do something like a video of a screen reader failing to use an IBM product because of those features?
16:58:27 <LJWatson> RS: We can't use them so they're not in the products.
16:58:42 <LJWatson> ... Not sure I have bandwidth.
16:58:48 <ShaneM> I thought the suggestion was that the product team do it - like file a problem report with a video
16:58:49 <LJWatson> CS: Anyone on the team with time?
16:59:06 <LJWatson> RS: Possibly. I think they've pulled most of it out of the product and/or already restructured the DOM.
16:59:15 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
16:59:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html LJWatson
16:59:55 <LJWatson> CS: Perhaps some documentation of discussions where this was identified as a problem?
17:00:06 <LJWatson> JS: Think that kind of thing will be a useful educational tool.
17:00:12 <ShaneM> Could we ask JamesN to look into this?
17:01:13 <LJWatson> JS: What we need to communicate is that this is a mainstream thing.
17:03:03 <LJWatson> LW:  I think they feel that the existing mismatch with CSS layouts means this isn't a new thing.
17:03:12 <LJWatson> MC: Doesn't mean it isn't a problem to fix though.
17:03:24 <LJWatson> LW: No, agree.
17:04:07 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:04:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html LJWatson
17:04:38 <LJWatson> JS: Based on what Cyns has shown us, anyone object to m reaching out to CSS and ARIA?
17:04:47 <LJWatson> ... hearing no objections.
17:05:49 <LJWatson> CS: Suggest we start with a small reach out.
17:06:20 <LJWatson> LW: Have we had no discussion with the CSS WG/team?
17:06:40 <LJWatson> JS: Has been discussed with Chris Rossen.
17:06:50 <MichaelC> s/Chris Rossen/Chris and Rossen/
17:06:57 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html LJWatson
17:07:26 <LJWatson> RSS: Do we want to meet at TPAC?
17:07:26 <MichaelC> ack me
17:07:26 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say +1 to talk at TPAC, but don´t wan to wait until then to get things moving
17:07:30 <LJWatson> JS: Absolutely.
17:07:39 <LJWatson> MC: We should not do nothing until then.
17:08:10 <LJWatson> CS: We could do a Wednesday breaktout session?
17:08:16 <LJWatson> MC: Yes, we'll need a proposal.
17:08:23 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TPAC2016/SessionIdeas TPAC Breakouts
17:08:36 <LJWatson> CS: Also a meeting between wWCAG and CSS for techniques would be helpful.
17:10:30 <LJWatson> rrsagent, make minutes
17:10:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html LJWatson
17:11:56 <joanie> q+
17:12:17 <janina> scribe: janina
17:12:28 <janina> group discussion about who and how on wcag techniques
17:12:34 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/CSS WCAG CSS Techniques need writing
17:12:35 <janina> ack j
17:13:12 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Techniques/ToDo#CSS WCAG CSS technique development tracking
17:13:41 <janina> Joanie suggests perhaps the curent authoring practices team in ARIA might continue by taking up authoring guidance e CSS
17:14:58 <Rich> hmm
17:15:04 <Rich> more work
17:15:33 <janina> zakim, take up last item
17:15:33 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up last item', janina
17:15:46 <janina> Meeting adjourns
17:15:58 <janina> zakim, bye
17:15:58 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Michiel_Bijl, Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, MichaelC, JF, ShaneM, LJWatson, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, fesch
17:15:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
17:16:05 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
17:16:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/13-apa-minutes.html janina
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