11:56:10 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poe
11:56:10 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/07/11-poe-irc
11:56:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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11:56:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
11:56:15 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
11:56:16 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
11:56:16 <trackbot> Date: 11 July 2016
11:56:18 <renato> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:56:45 <renato> present+ renato
11:56:57 <renato> Regrets: Ivan, Serena, Ben, Sabrina, Simon
11:59:52 <CarolineB> CarolineB has joined #poe
12:00:56 <michaelS> michaelS has joined #poe
12:01:10 <phila> present+ phila
12:01:13 <michaelS> present+ michaelS
12:02:57 <CarolineB> present+ CarolineB
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12:03:24 <smyles> present+ smyles
12:03:59 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160711
12:04:04 <phila> chair: renato
12:04:14 <victor> victor has joined #poe
12:04:18 <phila> regrets+ Ivan, Serena, Ben, Sabrina, Simon
12:04:23 <phila> scribe: phila
12:04:27 <phila> scribeNick: phila
12:05:00 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/11-poe-minutes.html phila
12:05:23 <victor> present+ victor
12:05:30 <phila> Topic: Approve last week's minutes
12:05:41 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:06:00 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/06/27-poe-minutes
12:06:08 <phila> PROPOSED: Accept minutes of 27 June
12:06:17 <phila> RESOLUTION: Accept minutes of 27 June
12:06:41 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/07/04-poe-minutes
12:06:43 <phila> renato: There is a note of last week's meeting that wasn't a formal on e(due to agenda not bein gsent out in time)
12:07:11 <phila> s/on e(due to agenda not bein gsent out in time)/one (doe to agenda not being sent out in time)/
12:07:28 <phila> Topic: Use Case document
12:07:39 <phila> renato: Invites michaelS to comment
12:07:49 <phila> michaelS: We have the Use cases and reqs pages in the wiki
12:08:16 <phila> michaelS: We said we needed more info in some of hte use cases and we have refrelcted those updates.
12:08:25 <phila> ... Next step is to continue with the requirements.
12:08:35 <phila> ... Some open discussions about the requirements.
12:08:43 <phila> renato: Any further commnets on the doc?
12:09:19 <phila> victor: Sabrina isn't here but she said she needed more elaboration on UCs 9 nad 14
12:09:32 <phila> ... see https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-poe-wg/2016Jul/0016.html
12:09:43 <phila> renato: Yes, but this is an evolving document.
12:09:50 <phila> victor: I think a few extra lines are needed.
12:09:57 <renato> http://w3c.github.io/poe/ucr/#poe.uc.09-base-product
12:09:57 <phila> s/nad/and/
12:10:08 <renato> http://w3c.github.io/poe/ucr/#poe.uc.14-a-vote-for-extended-relations
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12:11:10 <phila> renato: These are short, yes.
12:11:39 <phila> renato: So the question is do we need to put more words on them before publication?
12:11:54 <phila> victor: If Ben can do that in the week then this won't delay things
12:11:55 <phila> q+
12:12:03 <Brian_Ulicny> present+
12:12:19 <phila> ack me
12:12:33 <phila> Brian_Ulicny: Seeks clarity on what's needed
12:12:45 <phila> Brian_Ulicny: I can circle around with Ben this week...
12:13:03 <phila> renato: Please do that. I don't want to hold up the document. We can add to the doc in future.
12:13:10 <phila> q+ to talk about timing
12:13:21 <phila> renato: Yes, please ask him to add a couple of extra lines
12:13:23 <phila> ack me
12:13:23 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about timing
12:15:01 <phila> phila: Talks about time line. Doc needs to be ready on Wednesday if it's to be published on Thursday.
12:15:19 <phila> renato: We were hoping that the 3 docs (UCs, model and vocabs all get published at the same time)
12:16:21 <CarolineB> phila: why not wait until changes are made since ther eis a builtin delay for all
12:16:49 <phila> phila: If the docs are going out together, and we're not going to publish those 3 together this week, then there's no advantage in taking a conditional vote today.
12:16:56 <phila> renato: Do we want to publish all 3 together?
12:17:36 <michaelS> q+
12:17:38 <phila> victor: I have a minor objection to publishing all three together. The model and vocabs are not to do with the use cases since the UC doc is about new UCs
12:18:16 <phila> renato: Because we are starting with an existing base line doc, ODRL 2.1, we are not going to put out the use cases and say that we have solved them all in the model and vocab at the smae time.
12:18:50 <phila> renato: The UCR tells the community what we're planning to do - enhancements to the ODRL specs - and we're also publishing the starting point base lines specs.
12:19:12 <phila> ... Publishing at the same time doesn't imply that the model and vocab addresses all the UCs
12:19:26 <phila> victor: I understand the charter is to lift from the existing base line.
12:20:00 <phila> victor: But there are some improvements that can be made on the ODRL model that have to be discussed and the model and vocab have to be modified by the UCR
12:20:30 <phila> victor: What is the problem in pblishing the UCR now?
12:20:59 <phila> victor: I just sent a mail to the list with comments on what we can do to improve ODRL. It's a pity if we don't consider that.
12:21:16 <phila> ... My question is, is there any problem delaying the model publication by a month?
12:21:40 <phila> michaelS: It would be good to have such a pakcage as it think it gives a better overview.
12:21:46 <phila> ... I see a close link between the model and the vocab.
12:21:56 <phila> ... The vocab adds salt to the basics of the model.
12:22:21 <phila> ... If we agree that it is required to have a discussion on the model before we publish, then OK to publish the UC now.
12:22:39 <phila> michaelS: How much work is required to publish the vocab document?
12:23:07 <phila> renato: Technically we could publish it today. We're waiting for a change to the back end script that helps with the grouping.
12:23:28 <phila> ... Then the question becomes, do we want to discuss the model first?
12:23:53 <phila> victor: regarding the vocab, it's not so immediate. We have to merge a bunch of existing documents and I don't see how to do that.
12:24:00 <renato> https://w3c.github.io/poe/vocab/
12:24:03 <phila> renato: We've done that, we haven't just shared it yet.
12:24:28 <phila> renato: In that doc we have all the terms
12:24:40 <phila> renato: We haven't linked from the wiki yet.
12:24:47 <phila> ... We're waiting for one more change.
12:24:53 <phila> ... but we have done the merge.
12:25:30 <phila> ... we added the JSON, the XML, the scnearios etc.
12:26:10 <phila> ... actions for permissions, actions for duties etc. Those are the groups we're thinking of. That's a change that I hope we can do within a day or so.
12:26:19 <phila> ... Therefore we can have all 3 ready next week.
12:26:47 <phila> renato: Looking at your mail, I'm happy to work through. That will happen within the rest of the process over the coming months.
12:27:27 <phila> ... If we say let's wait a month, so we can address those issues, that's an arbitrary time. We want to say here's the base line, here are the UCs that we're going to look at.
12:27:42 <phila> ... Hopefully that triggers more input from the community.
12:27:45 <phila> q+
12:28:20 <phila> action: Brian to work with Ben on improving UCs 9 and 14
12:28:20 <trackbot> Created ACTION-18 - Work with ben on improving ucs 9 and 14 [on Brian Ulicny - due 2016-07-18].
12:28:31 <phila> renato: We want to send out a whole package.
12:28:50 <phila> victor: I'm afraid that if the WD is published now, issues won't be addressed.
12:29:04 <phila> renato: Don't worry about that. They will be discussed over the coming 12 months.
12:29:14 <phila> ... These are the first public WD. There will be other versions.
12:29:23 <phila> ... There's a whole maturity level to go through.
12:29:29 <phila> q?
12:30:07 <phila> q- michaelS
12:30:10 <phila> ack me
12:30:13 <michaelS> q-
12:31:29 <phila> phila: Talks about waiting until the package is complete next week.
12:31:53 <phila> victor: I think Ben was assigned to come up with a new name. That was a while ago.
12:32:03 <phila> ... This issue should have been closed before publication.
12:32:24 <phila> renato: That has been an action item for Ben. He's not had time to address it.
12:32:44 <phila> renato: I think I'm right that even if we call it ODRL and decide later to change it then we will be able to.
12:33:31 <phila> victor: It doesn't give a good impression to change the name after people have reviewed it under the old name.
12:33:40 <phila> renato: I agree, but we don't have a proposal for an alternative.
12:35:07 <phila> phila: I hope Brian can talk to Ben this week and see if he/TR can make progress on that.
12:35:14 <phila> renato: So we'll vote on all three next week.
12:35:18 <victor> +1
12:36:24 <phila> renato: If nothing changes between now and next week, will you be OK with publishing? Should the model be published.
12:36:33 <phila> q+ to assuage Victor's fears
12:36:42 <phila> renato: The FQWP is just the beginning
12:39:40 <phila> phila: phila Rambles on about process and why you can be sure that the doc will reflect commnets received.
12:39:55 <phila> renato: We'll vote on the model next week, but does anyone have any commnet on the doc now?
12:40:15 <phila> michaelS: There was one detail...
12:40:39 <phila> issue-18
12:40:39 <trackbot> Sorry, but issue-18 does not exist.
12:40:43 <renato> https://github.com/w3c/poe/issues/18
12:41:17 <phila> michaelS: The wording ... issue description ... is unclear to me.
12:41:39 <phila> michaelS: Ah, hang on... *when* is the key word.
12:41:45 <phila> michaelS: I got it on the 5th time#
12:41:52 <phila> #renWe canprobably change that word.
12:42:04 <phila> renato: We can probably change that word.
12:42:14 <phila> s/#renWe canprobably change that word.//
12:42:24 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
12:42:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/11-poe-minutes.html phila
12:42:58 <phila> Topic: Issues and Actions
12:43:06 <phila> renato: I think Simon's issue 17 is complete
12:43:09 <phila> issue-17
12:43:09 <trackbot> Sorry, but issue-17 does not exist.
12:43:47 <phila> renato: Some of us are using the GH issue tracker which allows us to link from the doc to the GH issue tracker.
12:44:01 <phila> Topic: AOB
12:44:15 <phila> renato: A reminder about TPAC. September is nearly here.
12:44:23 <phila> renato: We can request a speaker phone for the room.
12:44:32 <phila> ... But only if epople will want to dia in remotely.
12:44:35 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Attending_F2F1
12:44:46 <phila> ... There's a section there to show if you want to dial in.
12:45:35 <phila> [Meeting Adjourned]
12:47:24 <phila> RRSAgent, generate minutes
12:47:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/07/11-poe-minutes.html phila
14:53:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #poe