12:49:48 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
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12:49:50 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:49:52 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:49:52 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:49:53 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:49:53 <trackbot> Date: 29 June 2016
12:50:39 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jun/0029
12:50:48 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jun/0029
12:50:53 <Steven> Chair: STeven
12:50:57 <Steven> Regrets: Philip
12:51:02 <Steven> s/ST/St/
12:55:53 <ebruchez> ebruchez has joined #forms
12:59:29 <alain> alain has joined #forms
13:04:19 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2015: Check all uses of <data>
13:04:19 <Steven> [No link]
13:04:29 <Steven> Steven: Fixed it all.
13:04:52 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2042: Add up/down pattern to examples in spec
13:04:52 <Steven> https://www.w3.org/community/xformsusers/wiki/XForms_2.0#Move_Elements_Up_and_Down_in_a_List
13:05:03 <Steven> Steven: Please review
13:05:47 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2007: Add two new cols to table in 10.1 events overview
13:05:54 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jun/0030.html
13:08:39 <Steven> Steven: Added the two extra columns
13:08:47 <Steven> ... found 4 missing events
13:08:57 <Steven> ... note that submit-error isn't fatal
13:09:02 <Steven> Erik: nor output-error
13:09:09 <Steven> Steven: Oh! Mistake
13:09:27 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to mark output-error as Notification in overview table
13:09:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2068 - Mark output-error as notification in overview table [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-07-06].
13:10:11 <Steven> Erik: We could go back to *-exception
13:11:59 <Steven> ... the split was previously between errors and exceptions, and exceptions were not cancellable.
13:12:11 <Steven> ... there is some kind of inconsistency
13:14:04 <Steven> Erik: "excdeption" is a long name.
13:14:11 <Steven> s/dept/ept/
13:14:38 <Steven> Erik: In Java the "error"s are more serious than the "exceptions".
13:15:24 <Steven> Steven: Let's think about it for a week. Let it sink in.
13:16:54 <Steven> ... interesting that DOMActivate is a Notification, and yet cancellable.
13:17:51 <Steven> Erik: DOMActivate in DOM is deprecated
13:18:01 <ebruchez> spec for DOMActivate: https://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/#event-type-DOMActivate
13:18:02 <Steven> Steven: HTML5 wanted to go back to "click"
13:18:17 <ebruchez> https://www.w3.org/TR/DOM-Level-3-Events/#event-type-click
13:22:06 <Steven> Erik: Probably only <sobmit> reacts natively to a DOMActivate
13:22:12 <Steven> s/sob/sub/
13:23:38 <Steven> Steven: Leave DOMActivate as-is?
13:23:42 <Steven> Erik: I think that's ok
13:24:24 <Steven> ... IN HTML5 they call it a post-click activation step
13:24:32 <Steven> ... if click isn't cancelled.
13:25:19 <Steven> ... Ideally I would describe submit as working in terms of a DOMActivatet, which if not cancelled would do the submit.
13:25:48 <Steven> Steven: Which means that DOMActivate has a default action
13:26:05 <Steven> Erik: We could say 'varies', even though it's only in this one case.
13:26:18 <Steven> Steven: Let's think about it.
13:26:39 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2027: Decide how to deal with adjust-datetime-to-timezone()
13:26:39 <Steven> clash
13:26:39 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jun/0025.html
13:27:10 <Steven> Erik: Conflict with XPath2 and XForms
13:27:36 <Steven> ... function is present for backwards-compatibility
13:28:32 <Steven> Topic: ACTION-2034: Add "document" to the glossary
13:28:32 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Jun/0027.html
13:29:53 <Steven> Steven: What did you mean by "Some implementations allow access to non-instances"?
13:30:48 <Steven> Erik: These are actions that technically operate on XML 'documents'.
13:30:59 <Steven> ... in XML there is a notion of XML document
13:31:08 <Steven> ... and DOM implementations of Document node
13:31:29 <Steven> ... it's the term used commonly to describe the thing containing nodes
13:31:47 <Steven> ... there's no reason for them to work only with instances
13:33:10 <ebruchez> <xf:var name="foo" value="doc('test.xml')"/>
13:33:30 <Steven> Erik: Here I have an XML document that is not an instance
13:33:50 <ebruchez> <xf:delete ref="$foo//bar'/>
13:34:13 <Steven> ... however you could do a delete on it. There's no reason to disallow it.
13:35:41 <Steven> Steven: SO we use 'document' in several different ways
13:35:55 <Steven> Erik: Maybe we need to qualify it always
13:36:25 <Steven> Steven: Now I understand the problem better, I'll look again, and see if I can find a solution.
13:36:56 <Steven> Erik: It's a very general term
13:37:23 <Steven> Topic: AOB
13:37:38 <Steven> Erik: I'll be in Europe the next three or four weeks.
13:37:52 <Steven> ... I can be at the call next week, not sure after that.
13:38:08 <Steven> ... Not the 20th and 27th.
13:39:00 <Steven> Steven: OK< I can make the 3rd Aug but then I will be on holiday
13:40:26 <Steven> Alain: I won't be around two last weeks of July and two first weeks of Aug.
13:40:47 <Steven> Steven: OK, so our last call before the summer will be 13th July, and then nothing until 31 Aug.
13:41:24 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
13:41:35 <Steven> Present: Steven, Alain, Erik
13:41:41 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:41:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-forms-minutes.html Steven