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17:00:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
17:00:50 <trackbot> Date: 29 June 2016
17:01:00 <shawn> present: Susan, Shawn, AnnaBelle
17:02:13 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #eo
17:05:31 <Brent> Brent has joined #eo
17:07:15 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: Let's get starte
17:07:23 <Sharron> TOPIC: Participation
17:08:30 <James> James has joined #eo
17:08:59 <Caleb> Caleb has joined #eo
17:09:03 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: see the amount of particpation to be encouraging although a little nervous. Don't want to be such a dominant voice so let's just go around and briefly share about what we might want form this meeting.
17:09:19 <Sharron> Eric: Hope I don't loos my voice
17:09:32 <yatil> s/loos/lose/
17:10:12 <Sharron> Brent: Fly on the wall, share what's going on and stay current. Hope to get through process and start getting to the work.
17:10:35 <Sharron> Caleb: Hoping to get up to speed about where things are, how I can help.
17:10:52 <shawn> scribe:Sharron
17:10:58 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: always happy to help
17:11:10 <yatil> i/AnnaBelle: see/scribe: Sharron/
17:11:47 <Sharron> James: Efficiency
17:11:59 <Sharron> Sharron: yes efficiency and what's next
17:12:04 <Caleb> 👍
17:12:06 <Sharron> Shawn: ??? I missed it
17:12:20 <Sharron> Susan: thanks for stealing my comment Caleb
17:12:33 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: Sense of progress
17:12:40 <shawn> s/??? I missed it/get in synch and enjoy the hour together
17:13:08 <Sharron> Topic: Personas
17:13:31 <Sharron> Sharron: no one bu Caleb answered in Basecamp so will wait for survey
17:13:43 <Susan> +q
17:13:48 <Sharron> Topic: Goals document in Basecamp
17:14:21 <Sharron> Susan: Is there a way to edit and add comments without downloading.
17:15:01 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: That was not my intention with this. I would like this to be in good enough shape to roll up to EO
17:15:01 <shawn> +1 for an option to make comments without hving to download & edit & reupload
17:15:15 <shawn> q?
17:15:23 <yatil> ack susan
17:15:24 <shawn> ack susan
17:16:16 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: what did we mean by the #1 go to place for web accessiiblity since there have been questions about it.
17:16:45 <Judy> Judy has joined #eo
17:16:48 <Sharron> ...there are actually two versions of this and would someone clarify what we meant.
17:17:04 <Sharron> Susan: where are the two versions?
17:17:18 <shawn> from previous comments: This goal seems related to both content and design. That is, the WAI site can only meet that goal if it has all the content that people want. But we won't – that's not the role of the WAI website. It seems like we'd we want a goal for the "redesign" project that is based on design, usability, etc. (including information design, e.g., of specific pages/content), rather than
17:17:18 <shawn> relying on content (that is, creating lots of new content)
17:18:16 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: not critical just need clarification, and once we agree we need to have shared understanding of what it is.
17:18:41 <AnnaBelle> q?
17:18:42 <Sharron> ...for example, to me it means this is where people start, not necessarily the one that gets the most hits around the world.
17:19:41 <yatil> q+
17:19:42 <Sharron> Susan: To Shawn's comment that we don't have all the content they need, we don't need to do that from my perspective, only that it is the first place a person thinks of. It is a high goal, but worth reaching for.
17:20:37 <Sharron> Eric: It is hard to say we want to become #1 for web accessibility since we can't really measure it - rather think of WAI as the most reliable place for web a11y
17:20:42 <shawn> +1 to eric #1 place for reliable web accessibility info
17:20:58 <Caleb> Q
17:21:05 <yatil> q+ caleb
17:21:08 <yatil> ack me
17:21:13 <yatil> s/Q/
17:21:15 <Susan> +1 to caleb
17:21:21 <yatil> ack c
17:21:28 <Sharron> James: I think of it more in the realm of public opinion. So if someone is told they need to do a11y, they think of WAI
17:21:32 <yatil> q+ caleb
17:22:08 <shawn> ack c
17:22:09 <yatil> ack c
17:22:45 <Susan> q+
17:22:50 <Sharron> Caleb: it is fine as is, and from a measurement perspective, WAI already is #1. Another metric is inbound links
17:23:03 <yatil> ack s
17:23:10 <AnnaBelle> ack Susan
17:24:01 <Sharron> Susan: We have also discussed the fact that WAI is not typically referenced at conferences and blogs. Content is not easy to navigate, quite dense. Our goals inlcuded the idea that we want to become a place that people want to come.
17:25:58 <Sharron> Sharron: Is it worth remembering that this is not a publicly stated goal but something to model our efforts on?
17:26:00 <Caleb> +1
17:26:05 <Susan> +1
17:26:18 <Sharron> Shawn: Not comfortable with it nevertheless, won't blck it.
17:26:42 <Sharron> s/blck/block
17:27:38 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: Kazuhito suggested having a key goal inidcator which struck me as a helpful suggestions and I added it to the plan.
17:28:11 <Sharron> ...I think this gets into analytics, how would you measure? others?
17:28:16 <AnnaBelle> q?
17:29:23 <Sharron> Eric: we are not only 100% focused on anlaytics, we have nothing to seel other than ideas. Hard to say we need to focus on anlytics.
17:29:51 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: Then I would say we do not need to add the key goal inidctors when we send the goals doc to EO for approval...everyone OK?
17:30:11 <James> James has joined #eo
17:30:40 <Sharron> Caleb: IN the long term, we do need to look at analytics.
17:31:25 <Susan> +1 to Sharron, general tech conf are more important than a11y conferences in terms of E & O, imo
17:31:25 <shawn> Sub-goals
17:31:25 <shawn> •	Empower web professionals with tools they need to be effective in creating and improving accessible web products
17:31:25 <shawn> [SLH: This also seems too related to content rather than design.]
17:31:26 <shawn> •	Inspire and engage people to care about web accessibility
17:31:26 <shawn> [SLH: minor point from the survey: "While I think this is a good goal, I'm not sure it's the first secondary goal." Not sure it matters, but I think the IA and nav and usability and visual design goals maybe out to be higher. Speaking of which – does it make sense to include with this info "Visual design should be: Engaging/Inspiring, Reliable/Credible, Clear/Practical" ?]
17:31:26 <shawn> •	Modularize and template front-end assets
17:31:27 <shawn> [SLH: Sorry I don't fully understand this. I think I agree, just would like clarification. :-]
17:31:27 <shawn> •	Systematize information architecture and navigation so it’s consistent and makes it easy for users to find what's relevant to them
17:31:27 <shawn> [SLH: A related aspect that I think is incredibly important is that users know the breath of information on the site. E.g., if someone is given a link and goes to one page, when on that page they get an idea of what else they can find on the WAI website. I look forward to other perspectives on that…]
17:31:28 <shawn> •	Provide multiple entry points and pathways for people across varied roles
17:31:28 <shawn> [SLH: I *love* the wording of the main point. Can we leave it at that and not have this sub-point? It seems too specific to me – e.g., perhaps we decide we don't need to do this exactly – that there's a better way to meet the upper-level bullet.]
17:31:28 <shawn> •	Model accessibility and usability best practices
17:31:29 <shawn> [SLH, fyi, here's how we said it before: "implements best practices: an inspiring model for graphic design/visual appeal, accessibility, usability, technology; is elegant, uncluttered"]
17:31:29 <shawn> •	Expand content, including
17:31:30 <shawn> [SLH: hum… my thinking was that developing content is beyond the scope of the redesign. Maybe the redesign work would *suggest* additional content, but that creating it would be outside scope. Also, both of below seem too vague. In any case, I think it is a testament to the process that it is bringing up these issues now – early on – so we can get shared understanding on scope. Cheers to Anna
17:31:30 <shawn> Belle!]
17:31:30 <shawn> •	Provide comprehensive role-based content for web accessibility
17:31:30 <shawn> •	Provide support materials
17:31:42 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: Then unless I hear an objection, I will remove the KGI from the goals statemnet, on to subgoals...what does anyone want to say/do about those?
17:34:28 <Susan> q+
17:34:43 <Caleb> Q
17:34:45 <yatil> q+
17:34:51 <yatil> q+ caleb
17:34:53 <yatil> q- later
17:34:56 <James> Q+
17:35:11 <yatil> s/Q/
17:35:17 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: Removing content creation from redesign effort...what do people think?
17:35:17 <AnnaBelle> ack Susan
17:36:22 <shawn> [ /me thinks Susan is talking about tweking existing content, not adding new content ]
17:36:29 <Caleb> +1
17:36:37 <Sharron> Susan: One of our goals was to make content more appealing, if it works into the Resource Management process and we would refresh so that we are not just slapping a new skin on it, but folding the redesign into the Resoeuce management process
17:36:46 <Sharron> Sharron: +1 to Susan
17:37:14 <yatil> s/Resoeuce/Resource/
17:37:17 <shawn> ack c
17:37:20 <AnnaBelle> ack caleb
17:37:23 <Sharron> Susan: tightening up the content, making it more navigable, appealing, etc.
17:37:51 <yatil> q+ to say keep this to the core
17:37:58 <Susan> +1 to caleb
17:37:58 <yatil> ack me
17:37:58 <Zakim> yatil, you wanted to say keep this to the core
17:38:03 <Sharron> Caleb: I so agree. In order to be successful, we *must* edit this stuff down, make it more readable, parsable. The wall of text has to go. There is no way to do that without editing content.
17:38:05 <AnnaBelle> ack yatil
17:38:39 <Sharron> Eric: We must think about what is in scope. If we limit ourselves to being done only when all teh resources are in perfect shape, we will be here for years.
17:39:18 <shawn> q+ to set priorities and tiered work. maybe search & nav/IA & visual design primary scope for TF. and updating docs is in EOWG all
17:39:54 <Sharron> ...must identify what is reasonable, allowing RMs to do their work, but must work on design, navigation and content editing is a separate step. Soem may be able to be done in aprallel but not all. Would rather stay focused on reorganziaing and having new interaction models with what is already there.
17:39:57 <Sharron> q+
17:40:00 <AnnaBelle> ack James
17:40:03 <Susan> +1 to parallel, but that content work is what I interpreted "content" to mean here.
17:40:54 <shawn> agree it would take 18 months to get the content revised
17:41:02 <Sharron> James: I am concerned that it is not going to be a good, attractive appealing web site if we do not address the content bloat. It could take longer than the 18 months to do this given the way the group operates now.
17:41:12 <shawn> s/would take 18 months/would take 18+ months
17:41:44 <yatil> q+ to say that the content is up to resource managers, isn’t it?
17:41:45 <shawn> ack shawn
17:41:46 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to set priorities and tiered work. maybe search & nav/IA & visual design primary scope for TF. and updating docs is in EOWG all
17:41:58 <Sharron> ...I think content should be in scope and if so, we need to think about the way we are operating. The content we have and how it is written vs the content we should have is enormously challenging.
17:42:40 <Sharron> Shawn: I agree that the task is huge and maybe we need to prioritize to what we can get done first, soon and maybe that is the way to approach it.
17:42:53 <yatil> +1 to shawn
17:42:57 <yatil> q-
17:43:32 <AnnaBelle> ack Sharron
17:43:40 <shawn> Sharron: agree can separate content bloat from redesign.
17:43:57 <yatil> q+
17:44:06 <shawn> .... my understanding is that would be parallel activities by the Resource Managers
17:44:12 <AnnaBelle> q+
17:44:16 <yatil> q-
17:45:06 <yatil> +1 to AnnaBelle
17:45:06 <shawn> +1 to Anna Belle - even fixing visual design & IA would make a big difference
17:45:08 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: I would be thrilled if it looked better even if the content bloat remained.
17:45:25 <Caleb> Q
17:45:40 <AnnaBelle> ack AnnaBelle
17:46:10 <yatil> [Thinks that if we prioritize the IA, we can give RM guidance to change their content before we add the new design.]
17:46:21 <Sharron> Caleb: What if during the redesign the RMs take a stab at light edits as a guiding principle. Trying to think of a way to make progress while dealing with the reality of limited resources, etc.
17:46:31 <yatil> s/Q/
17:46:40 <shawn> s/design & IA/design & IA/nav
17:47:16 <Sharron> ...if we empower those who are doing the redesign to have some ability to make changes within the context of streamlining, using that as a design principle
17:48:15 <AnnaBelle> q?
17:48:18 <Sharron> ...doing what they think is necessary, mockups drive to that vision.
17:48:52 <Sharron> Topic: Technology
17:48:52 <Caleb> @yatil the IA folks and designers
17:49:26 <Sharron> Eric: Looked at resources at WAI and the home page and the resources we have prioritized and tried to make some geenral atatements about them.
17:49:41 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro
17:49:41 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials
17:49:41 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG20
17:49:41 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ – Homepage
17:49:43 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/ER/
17:49:43 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG2AA-Conformance
17:49:45 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/eval/
17:49:46 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/gettingstarted/
17:49:47 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/demos/
17:49:48 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/perspectives/
17:49:49 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/impl/
17:49:50 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/users/
17:49:51 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/mobile/
17:49:52 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/bcase/
17:49:53 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/guid-tech.html
17:49:54 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/changedesign
17:49:55 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG2AAA-Conformance
17:49:56 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG2A-Conformance
17:49:57 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/training/
17:49:58 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/WAI/older-users/
17:50:43 <Sharron> Eric: These are the top pages that get accessed. Most people do not come through the Home page.
17:53:01 <Sharron> ...when people leave the WAI pages, they most often go to w3.org, not sure why that is. Interesting that about 60% exit from WAI home page.
17:53:56 <Sharron> ...top resourcein intro section is WCAG Overview over 50% from search engines.
17:54:23 <Sharron> ...about WAI is infrequently visited mostly from internal.
17:55:22 <Sharron> ...Easy Checks is the most often accessed from the eval directory and most often accessed from the eval directory main page.
17:55:59 <James_> James_ has joined #eo
17:56:03 <Sharron> ...some have been used in many online learning courses.
17:56:36 <Sharron> ...getting started most often accessed from inside the site.
17:57:30 <shawn> q+ to note search
17:58:03 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: can we send questions to you Eric if we want more information?
17:58:07 <Caleb> Really good info Eric!
17:58:10 <AnnaBelle> ack shawn
17:58:10 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to note search
17:59:13 <Sharron> Shawn: Thanks to everyone who encouraged us to look at this. Have been looking at very specific info and one that surprised me was the percentage of people who click the search in the footer.
17:59:28 <Sharron> ...support for our interest in improved search from the f2f
17:59:45 <Sharron> q+
18:00:07 <Susan> q+
18:00:14 <yatil> ack sh
18:00:21 <AnnaBelle> ack Sharron
18:00:28 <shawn> Sharron: really facinating - but maybe not best use of time for this meeting. maybe sub-group on analytics do offline & bring summary to this meeting
18:00:38 <AnnaBelle> ack Susan
18:00:38 <Sharron> Susan: agree
18:01:02 <Caleb> Me
18:01:11 <Caleb> Have to drop bye everyone
18:01:59 <shawn> q+
18:02:08 <shawn> ack me
18:02:17 <AnnaBelle> ack shawn
18:03:28 <Sharron> Topic: Brainstorming
18:03:58 <Sharron> Brnt: is willing to lead a brainstorming session look for more infomraiton about that.
18:04:12 <yatil> s/infomraiton/information/
18:04:31 <Sharron> AnnaBelle: James, when do you think you can take the roadmap framework and turn into a real project plan?
18:05:04 <yatil> s/Brnt:/Anna Belle: Brent/
18:12:11 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:12:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:12:53 <yatil> chair: Anna Belle
18:12:59 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:12:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:13:28 <yatil> present+ Caleb, James, Sharron, EricE, Brent
18:13:41 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:13:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:14:08 <yatil> s/Anna Belle/AnnaBelle/
18:14:10 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:14:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:14:59 <yatil> s/Let's get starte/Let's get started/
18:15:01 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:15:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:22:18 <yatil-lurking> scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
18:22:20 <yatil-lurking> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:22:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-eo-minutes.html yatil-lurking
18:22:39 <yatil-lurking> trackbot, end meeting
18:22:39 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:22:39 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Susan, Shawn, AnnaBelle, Caleb, James, Sharron, EricE, Brent
18:22:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:22:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-eo-minutes.html trackbot
18:22:48 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:22:48 <RRSAgent> I see no action items