15:47:55 RRSAgent has joined #apa 15:47:55 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-apa-irc 15:47:57 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:47:57 Zakim has joined #apa 15:47:59 Zakim, this will be 15:47:59 I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot 15:48:00 Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference 15:48:00 Date: 29 June 2016 15:48:02 agenda? 15:48:06 agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes 15:48:06 agenda+ RQTF Reminder http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0042.html 15:48:09 agenda+ SVG Nested Links? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0054.html 15:48:12 agenda+ TPAC 2016 Planning [See Below] 15:48:14 agenda+ Formal Review Request http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0059.html 15:48:17 agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8 15:48:20 agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html 15:48:22 agenda+ HTML 5.1 input type="password http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0053.html 15:48:25 agenda+ HTML 5.1 Diff Review -- Cynthia, Michiel 15:48:28 agenda+ CSS A11y TF Draft https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/css-a11y/work-statement 15:48:31 agenda+ Action-2011 -- Michiel, Janina [See Below] 15:48:33 agenda+ action-2056 CSS Properties and Values http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0056.html 15:48:36 agenda+ Action-2057 CSS Properties http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0039.html 15:48:39 agenda+ Action-2023 Pointer Lock http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Apr/0033.html 15:48:42 agenda+ Decision Policy Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy 15:48:45 agenda+ Other Business 15:48:47 agenda+ next and future meetings 15:48:50 agenda+ be done 15:50:18 zakim, clear agenda 15:50:18 agenda cleared 15:50:23 agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes 15:50:23 agenda+ RQTF Reminder http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0042.html 15:50:26 agenda+ SVG Nested Links? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0054.html 15:50:29 agenda+ TPAC 2016 Planning [See Below] 15:50:32 agenda+ Formal Review Request http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0059.html 15:50:35 agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8 15:50:37 agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html 15:50:40 agenda+ HTML 5.1 input type="password http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0053.html 15:50:43 agenda+ HTML 5.1 Diff Review -- Cynthia, Michiel 15:50:45 agenda+ CSS A11y TF Draft https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/css-a11y/work-statement 15:50:48 agenda+ Action-2011 -- Michiel, Janina [See Below] 15:50:51 agenda+ action-2056 CSS Properties and Values http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0056.html 15:50:54 agenda+ Action-2057 CSS Properties http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0039.html 15:50:57 agenda+ Action-2023 Pointer Lock http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Apr/0033.html 15:51:00 agenda+ Decision Policy Review http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/decision-policy 15:51:02 agenda+ Other Business 15:51:05 agenda+ next and future meetings 15:51:07 agenda+ be done 15:56:10 present+ Janina 15:56:13 Chair: Janina 15:56:19 zakim, next item 15:56:19 agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina] 16:00:05 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs 16:00:51 fesch has joined #apa 16:01:37 Gottfried has joined #apa 16:03:17 richardschwerdtfeger has joined #apa 16:03:33 JF has joined #apa 16:03:41 scribe: JF 16:03:43 agenda? 16:03:47 present+ MichaelC, JF, Fred, Gottfried 16:05:00 present+ Rich 16:05:05 JS: any edits to agenda? 16:05:11 Present+ JF 16:05:17 JS: any news? 16:05:23 present+ fesch 16:05:25 Gottfried: 16:05:46 at meeting in prague - new standard on usesr-preferences 16:05:49 and new API 16:05:56 this will be of intereste to W3C 16:06:30 zakim, nesxt item 16:06:30 I don't understand 'nesxt item', JF 16:06:36 zakim, next item 16:06:36 agendum 2. "RQTF Reminder http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0042.html" taken up [from janina] 16:06:52 JS: reminder that this TF is still recruiting 16:06:55 GZ: JTC1 SC36 is going to develop a revision of 24751-1 on user preferences which will include a registry for concepts, a format for preference sets and and API for preference servers. 16:07:15 JS: we need a good group organized here, we will be dependent on them going forwaard 16:07:34 zakim, next item 16:07:34 agendum 2 was just opened, JF 16:07:40 zakim, close item 2 16:07:40 agendum 2, RQTF Reminder http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0042.html, closed 16:07:42 I see 16 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:07:42 3. SVG Nested Links? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0054.html [from janina] 16:07:44 zakim, next item 16:07:44 agendum 3. "SVG Nested Links? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0054.html" taken up [from janina] 16:08:01 JS: Fred had some question on this topic 16:08:24 FE: active discussion on the ARIA thread, and we will be discussing later today on SVG WG call 16:08:33 FE: have received lots of good feedback 16:08:40 zakim, take up next item 16:08:40 agendum 3 was just opened, JF 16:08:45 zakim, close item 3 16:08:45 agendum 3, SVG Nested Links? http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0054.html, closed 16:08:47 I see 15 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:08:47 4. TPAC 2016 Planning [from See Below via janina] 16:08:51 zakim, take up next item 16:08:51 agendum 4. "TPAC 2016 Planning" taken up [from See Below] 16:09:11 JS: actively soliciting agenda ideas for TPAC 16:09:18 JS: please add to the wiki 16:09:23 zakim, take up next item 16:09:23 agendum 4 was just opened, JF 16:09:29 zakim, close item 4 16:09:29 agendum 4, TPAC 2016 Planning, closed 16:09:30 I see 14 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 16:09:30 5. Formal Review Request http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0059.html [from janina] 16:09:34 zakim, take up next item 16:09:34 agendum 5. "Formal Review Request http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0059.html" taken up [from janina] 16:09:48 JS: we have received a formal request to do a formal review 16:09:59 we need to respond on this spec 16:10:07 q+ 16:10:33 JS: thinks Fred might have had an action item on this, but thinking of asking Matt King to respond 16:10:47 JF: what about Research TF? 16:11:09 JS: too soon - this is a request to comment on a spec going through transition 16:11:21 MC: yes, there is some additional time-line pressure on this 16:11:42 MC: they may have intended for us to review the CR version, but the 'rush' was a bit of a shock 16:12:22 Webmention and Activity Streams are docs we decided we don't need to review. Micropub is one we wanted to come back to, so perhaps it's time now. Social Web Protocols is one we assigned to Fred back in January but he hasn't returned on that yet. 16:12:41 MC: some of these are going to CR soon - dates not available 16:12:57 FE: if I had an action item on this... it was a low-level thing 16:13:03 FE: don't remember this 16:13:28 MC: wiki doesn't show anything. Possible we missed deferring this - need to crosscheck 16:13:34 FE: I can look at this again 16:13:35 action-2002? 16:13:35 action-2002 -- Fred Esch to Review social web protocols https://www.w3.org/tr/social-web-protocols/ -- due 2016-01-20 -- CLOSED 16:13:35 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2002 16:13:57 JS: there are a couple of specs here - we may need to break this up. Divide and conquer 16:14:24 MC: it seems the only spec we need to worry about is MicroPub 16:14:37 FE: I recall this being very low-level: little timy APIs 16:14:44 s/timy/tiny 16:14:59 MC: believes this is in the trackre... will look into this 16:15:08 s/trackre/tracker 16:15:16 action-2014 due 1 week 16:15:16 Set action-2014 Review micropub https://www.w3.org/tr/micropub/ due date to 2016-07-06. 16:15:26 MC: will set this to next week - asigned to Fred E. 16:15:46 MC: recommend we respond to taht group, with a note to wait on review of MicroPub 16:16:02 MC: if anyone else wants to re-review feel free, but we feel they were done alreay 16:16:17 zakim, next item 16:16:17 I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, JF 16:16:25 q? 16:16:25 q? 16:16:26 ack me 16:16:32 zakim, next item 16:16:32 agendum 6. "Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8" taken up [from janina] 16:16:53 MC: lots of revies due today 16:17:27 2 actions on cynthia and Michiel - neither on call 16:17:48 MC: will re-assign. 16:18:07 action-2064 due 1 week 16:18:07 Set action-2064 Review html 5.1 diff to determine scope of review needed https://www.w3.org/tr/html51/changes.html#changes due date to 2016-07-06. 16:18:11 action-2064 16:18:11 action-2064 -- Janina Sajka to Review html 5.1 diff to determine scope of review needed https://www.w3.org/tr/html51/changes.html#changes -- due 2016-07-06 -- OPEN 16:18:11 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2064 16:18:22 action-2063 16:18:22 action-2063 -- Janina Sajka to Review internationalization best practices for spec developers https://www.w3.org/tr/international-specs/ -- due 2016-06-29 -- OPEN 16:18:22 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2063 16:18:36 action-2063 due 2 weeks 16:18:36 Set action-2063 Review internationalization best practices for spec developers https://www.w3.org/tr/international-specs/ due date to 2016-07-13. 16:18:40 JS: ran out of time - will defer 2 weeks 16:18:47 action -2062 16:18:53 action-2062 16:18:53 action-2062 -- Lisa Seeman to Re-review custom counter styles https://www.w3.org/tr/predefined-counter-styles/ -- due 2016-06-29 -- OPEN 16:18:53 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2062 16:19:01 action-2062 due 2 weeks 16:19:01 Set action-2062 Re-review custom counter styles https://www.w3.org/tr/predefined-counter-styles/ due date to 2016-07-13. 16:19:03 MC: defer for 2 weeks 16:19:35 action-2062 due 1 weeks 16:19:35 Set action-2062 Re-review custom counter styles https://www.w3.org/tr/predefined-counter-styles/ due date to 2016-07-06. 16:19:42 JS: shorten this to 1 week instead 16:19:48 action-2058 16:19:48 action-2058 -- Cynthia Shelly to Review css properties and values api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-properties-values-api-1/ -- due 2016-06-29 -- OPEN 16:19:48 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2058 16:20:17 CS: will need 2 more weeks 16:20:22 action-2058 due 2 weeks 16:20:22 Set action-2058 Review css properties and values api level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-properties-values-api-1/ due date to 2016-07-13. 16:21:07 MC: shold we close this? 16:21:10 close action-2058 16:21:10 Closed action-2058. 16:21:16 JS: likely 16:21:27 action-2053 16:21:27 action-2053 -- Shane McCarron to Review https://www.w3.org/tr/webauthn/ web authentication: a web api for accessing scoped credentials -- due 2016-06-29 -- OPEN 16:21:27 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2053 16:21:34 action-2053 due 3 weeks 16:21:34 Set action-2053 Review https://www.w3.org/tr/webauthn/ web authentication: a web api for accessing scoped credentials due date to 2016-07-20. 16:21:34 defer 3 weeks 16:21:47 action-2048 16:21:47 action-2048 -- John Foliot to Review https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml2/ timed text markup language 2 (ttml2) -- due 2016-06-29 -- OPEN 16:21:47 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2048 16:21:58 action-2048 due 1 week 16:21:58 Set action-2048 Review https://www.w3.org/tr/ttml2/ timed text markup language 2 (ttml2) due date to 2016-07-06. 16:22:09 action-2047 16:22:09 action-2047 -- Michiel Bijl to Review css grid layout https://www.w3.org/tr/css-grid-1/ -- due 2016-06-29 -- OPEN 16:22:09 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2047 16:22:31 JS: will need to defer that - leave for Michiel 16:24:33 MC; close action, and defer to CSS TF 16:25:02 MC: noting in wiki thatwe need to look at this more however 16:25:07 close action-2040 16:25:07 Closed action-2040. 16:25:26 action-2011 16:25:26 action-2011 -- Janina Sajka to Janina to draft examples of how the hand-wavey stuff in CSS Transitions accessibility statement could be solidified -- due 2016-06-29 -- OPEN 16:25:26 http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2011 16:25:47 JS: this is still in transit - waiting on Michiel - leave open 16:26:01 zakim, next item 16:26:01 agendum 7. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina] 16:26:12 MC: 1.5 new on TR 16:26:46 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-scroll-snap-1/ CSS Scroll Snap Module Level 1 16:27:09 CSS Scroll snap points - related to the one JF is looking at. Has been republished as CSS Scroll snap module level 1 16:27:31 MC: causes a discontinuity on oour wiki - started a new wiki page 16:27:47 MC: have cleaned up our wiki {{grumble}} 16:28:43 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/page-visibility-2/ Page Visibility 2 16:30:53 JF: this sort of looks like it's related to CSS visibility - if so, likely not an issue 16:31:11 MC:looking at the api, it doesn't seem to be something that has an impact on us 16:31:47 MC: will mark as 'reviewed' 16:31:51 {{LOL}} 16:31:55 zakim, next item 16:31:55 agendum 8. "HTML 5.1 input type="password http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2016Jun/0053.html" taken up [from janina] 16:32:23 JS: large discussion. Part of it may have come into our space 16:32:44 Rich has noted the security issues in HTML5.1 and type="password" 16:33:01 JS: is this a flaw, or something thta we need to address 16:33:04 Q+ 16:34:03 q+ to say second-hand report is security not intended for HTML password 16:34:17 RS: the issue is that type=password is not secure today. Passwords can be cached, you can inpsect and examine the password value in the UI 16:34:32 q+ to say nonetheless JC said there´s secure storage at least on his browser that´s not mentioned in spec 16:34:47 RS: this means that anyone can find your password thanks to cache - look at the value and boom, you have somebody's password 16:34:51 q+ to say HTML talks about input masking but doesn´t address AT equivalent, might want to add wording about that 16:35:10 ack me 16:35:10 MichaelC, you wanted to say second-hand report is security not intended for HTML password and to say nonetheless JC said there´s secure storage at least on his browser that´s not 16:35:13 ... mentioned in spec and to say HTML talks about input masking but doesn´t address AT equivalent, might want to add wording about that 16:35:32 ack m 16:35:45 MC: Judy has discussed this with Wendy S, and there is an intent to address this - it's being seen as a feature not a bug 16:36:00 JamesN found other issues and mentioned them on a different call this week 16:36:10 there may be other issues due to lack of specification 16:36:30 in the HTML5 spec, the spec says it SHOUD mask output 16:36:44 but not sure exactly what is required, but we can do it at CR phase now 16:36:52 s/SHOUD/SHOULD/ 16:37:00 ack jf 16:38:13 q+ 16:38:34 q+ to say password security not actually our domain 16:38:44 ack m 16:38:44 MichaelC, you wanted to say password security not actually our domain 16:39:13 JS: notes this is already an issue, and W3C is aware - security group is supposed to be chasing this 16:39:22 q+ 16:39:29 when we meet with securtiy at TPAC, we should express our concern, but not our issue to follow up on 16:39:37 ack ric 16:40:26 RS: concern is that Apple doesn't want to implement due to lack of security, but type=password is not secure, so there isn't an issue 16:40:33 q? 16:40:37 MC: Safari may or may not have additional security there 16:41:06 JS: do we want more explanatory language in the spec? 16:41:08 (and other browsers may more may not as well) 16:41:25 by noting the impact on Assistive TEchnology 16:41:59 MC: most AT will render as masked content, but that seems tobe very base level 16:42:15 RC: the other issues is that browssrs are allowing for snooping of the value 16:42:32 It isn't an a11y issue, but it *IS* an issue 16:43:05 MC: we should advise the security folks of our shock, and we can discuss with them the impact on AT 16:43:23 JS: yes, we need some key-echo on mobile in paticular 16:43:57 MC: question is, how hard do we push the security folks with our dismay? 16:44:10 MC: need to be mindful of other WG's domains 16:44:23 JS: agreed, but this opens up other issues we are looking at 16:44:42 RC: the password role will likely be pushed to ARIA 2.0 16:44:59 if that is the case, I just want to avoid the retreaded discussion we had already 16:45:18 we all know that password is not bery secure anyway - we recognize the need for a fundemental change 16:45:51 MC: agree there is a need for change - but it isn't an APA issue 16:46:04 we will request time with the security folks at TPAC 16:46:19 we can address it then - noting our collective discomfort 16:46:24 q+ To make minor technical point 16:46:51 JF: notes that the browsers are a critical players here 16:47:07 MC: correct, and the security folks need to take it to the HTML5 WG 16:47:16 ack jo 16:47:16 joanie, you wanted to make minor technical point 16:47:54 Joanie: there is an actual issue with ATs - we fixed the one we found on our platform, but there may still be an issue (HTML AAM thing?) 16:47:57 MC: agree 16:48:17 MC: we note that any script can get access to the value, find it weird that AT cannot 16:48:58 JS: will put this on the wiki as a TPAC question - we will likely request joint meeting 16:49:13 JS: notes as well that this is on agenda for Research TF going forward 16:49:26 MC: added to TPAC scratch page 16:49:36 zakim, next item 16:49:36 agendum 9. "HTML 5.1 Diff Review -- Cynthia, Michiel" taken up [from janina] 16:49:50 JS: not ready to discuss this week? 16:50:17 CS: changes are not that large, and chatting with Travis indicated it would take about amonth for 2-3 people 16:50:36 so if we broke up the change list into 3 buckets 16:50:53 CS: (notes re-add of @longdesc) 16:50:56 Q+ 16:51:28 CS: the question is, can things proceed as is, versus looking at what we missed that shuld go into 5.2 16:51:30 present+ Cynthia 16:51:45 JS: any ideas on how to break up the changes into 3 buckets 16:51:59 CS: not really at this time - a ToDo 16:52:07 might start by asking for volunteers 16:52:18 ack jf 16:53:47 CS: we will need to think about breaking things up: higher level process - how docs relate to each other, what will future versions look like, and OMG we can't ship like this today 16:54:01 JS: looking at the list - anything else jumping out? 16:54:40 close action-2064 16:54:40 Closed action-2064. 16:54:41 JS: will re-add to agenda for next week - plese look over the change log and start thinking about taking on specifics 16:54:52 s/plese/please 16:54:58 zakim, next item 16:54:58 agendum 10. "CSS A11y TF Draft https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/css-a11y/work-statement" taken up [from janina] 16:55:22 JS: sent out an email this morning 16:55:25 rrsagent, make minutes 16:55:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-apa-minutes.html MichaelC 16:55:51 getting nervous about this info - need to do a wider announcement 16:56:02 CS: will do so ASAP 16:56:10 JS: can you send out the list of specs this week? 16:56:23 s/JS: can you send out the list of specs this week?/ 16:57:22 MC: we need to gte cracking on this - work is happening now 16:57:32 s/gte/get 16:58:26 JF: can we wait a wekk/10 days? 16:58:39 JS: important that we don't fall behind 16:59:39 JS: apologies to Fred, we will take up the rest of the agenda next week 17:00:03 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:00:13 JS: any last minute comments? 17:00:25 JS: thanks - meeting ajourned 17:00:42 RRSAgent, draft minutes 17:00:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-apa-minutes.html JF 17:01:02 RRSAgent, publish minutes 17:01:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-apa-minutes.html JF 17:01:16 trackbot, end meeting 17:01:16 Zakim, list attendees 17:01:16 As of this point the attendees have been Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, MichaelC, JF, Fred, Gottfried, Rich, fesch, Cynthia 17:01:24 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 17:01:24 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/29-apa-minutes.html trackbot 17:01:25 RRSAgent, bye 17:01:25 I see no action items