IRC log of i18n on 2016-06-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:33:19 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc
14:33:24 [Zakim]
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14:33:30 [aphillip]
trackbot, prepare teleconference
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RRSAgent, make logs world
14:33:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be 4186
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Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:33:35 [trackbot]
Date: 23 June 2016
14:33:35 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot
14:34:02 [aphillip]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2016Jun/0029.html
14:34:07 [aphillip]
Chair: Addison Phillips
14:34:11 [aphillip]
Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:34:14 [aphillip]
ScribeNick: aphillip
14:34:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:34:30 [aphillip]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2016Jun/0030.html
14:34:36 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:34:51 [aphillip]
agenda+ Agenda
14:34:55 [aphillip]
agenda+ Action Items
14:35:00 [aphillip]
agenda+ Info Share
14:35:09 [aphillip]
agenda+ RADAR and Active Work Review
14:35:16 [aphillip]
agenda+ Specdev
14:35:24 [aphillip]
agenda+ HTML 5.1 comments
14:35:27 [aphillip]
agenda+ Charmod
14:35:42 [aphillip]
agenda+ Move custom counter styles to Note
14:50:31 [Steve_Atkin]
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14:56:59 [aphillip]
Present+ Steve
14:57:02 [aphillip]
Present+ Addison
15:02:05 [JcK]
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15:03:15 [aphillip]
Present+ JcK
15:03:19 [aphillip]
Present+ Richard
15:03:32 [aphillip]
agenda?
15:03:42 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 1
15:03:42 [Zakim]
agendum 1. "Agenda" taken up [from aphillip]
15:04:02 [aphillip]
agenda+ Encoding spec
15:04:19 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 2
15:04:19 [Zakim]
agendum 2. "Action Items" taken up [from aphillip]
15:04:31 [aphillip]
https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:05:36 [aphillip]
close action-399
15:05:36 [trackbot]
Closed action-399.
15:06:12 [aphillip]
action-404?
15:06:12 [trackbot]
action-404 -- Dennis Tan Tanaka to Check on zwj and friends in idna so that we can document in charmod-norm -- due 2015-02-19 -- OPEN
15:06:12 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/404
15:06:58 [aphillip]
we decided that idna and friends are out of scope for charmod
15:07:01 [aphillip]
close action-404
15:07:01 [trackbot]
Closed action-404.
15:07:30 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 3
15:07:30 [Zakim]
agendum 3. "Info Share" taken up [from aphillip]
15:07:41 [aphillip]
reminder: sign up for TPAC!
15:08:41 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:08:52 [aphillip]
richard: published the specdev
15:09:04 [aphillip]
... and something else in TR using echidna
15:09:10 [aphillip]
... counter styles
15:09:13 [aphillip]
... was really easy
15:09:30 [aphillip]
addison: saw your email will try with charmod
15:09:36 [aphillip]
richard: unicode 9 released on tuesday
15:09:51 [aphillip]
... and uniview is updates
15:09:55 [aphillip]
s/updates/updated/
15:11:16 [aphillip]
agenda?
15:11:24 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 4
15:11:24 [Zakim]
agendum 4. "RADAR and Active Work Review" taken up [from aphillip]
15:11:36 [aphillip]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/radar/
15:13:16 [aphillip]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/
15:15:04 [aphillip]
action: addison: ping martin about unicode in xml
15:15:04 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-534 - Ping martin about unicode in xml [on Addison Phillips - due 2016-06-30].
15:15:26 [aphillip]
richard: no comments on time and dates essential comments
15:15:29 [aphillip]
... due yesterday
15:15:33 [aphillip]
... so publish it?
15:15:36 [aphillip]
yep
15:15:44 [aphillip]
agenda?
15:16:23 [JcK]
FWIW, I forwarded the "time thing" announcement to a couple of IETF folks concerned about the issues, one of whom apparently re-forwarded to the mail calendaring list. So there should be no shortage of people with an opportunity to review
15:16:23 [najib]
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15:16:46 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 6
15:16:46 [Zakim]
agendum 6. "HTML 5.1 comments" taken up [from aphillip]
15:16:48 [aphillip]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/
15:17:55 [aphillip]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/159
15:18:04 [aphillip]
richard: need to step back a bit more
15:19:01 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/
15:20:35 [aphillip]
https://github.com/w3c/html/issues/341
15:20:46 [aphillip]
want to leave in, could be useful in some languages
15:21:04 [aphillip]
use the incubator was suggested
15:22:53 [aphillip]
addison: recollection was that this was kept in for past compat, that list-style-type was meant to replace it
15:23:32 [aphillip]
... we'd want this taken away but for compat?
15:24:14 [aphillip]
richard: if could auto-detect label, that'd be a cool feature
15:25:17 [aphillip]
... write note before we close it saying we don't agree?
15:25:20 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/33
15:25:40 [aphillip]
action: addison: add note to issue 33 saying we don't agree before closing
15:25:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-535 - Add note to issue 33 saying we don't agree before closing [on Addison Phillips - due 2016-06-30].
15:25:44 [aphillip]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/128
15:26:04 [aphillip]
close 127
15:26:23 [aphillip]
127 is not a typo
15:28:51 [aphillip]
close 128. theyy added type=submit to the ones that are default translatable
15:29:03 [aphillip]
https://github.com/w3c/html/pull/503
15:29:21 [aphillip]
https://github.com/w3c/html/issues/343
15:30:17 [r12a]
https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/133
15:32:39 [aphillip]
add a question about whether to be addressed or not
15:32:47 [aphillip]
and 5.1 or 5.2?
15:32:56 [aphillip]
agenda?
15:33:32 [aphillip]
richard: closing all annotation model comments since no objections
15:33:39 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 8
15:33:39 [Zakim]
agendum 8. "Move custom counter styles to Note" taken up [from aphillip]
15:33:57 [aphillip]
css working group has been discussing plans for next charter period
15:34:08 [aphillip]
... and supposed to be 3 year charter
15:34:13 [aphillip]
... number of docs to rec in that time
15:34:18 [aphillip]
... one is counter styles
15:34:25 [aphillip]
... they expect it in rec in 2018
15:34:37 [aphillip]
... thinking our draft is a WG Note
15:34:49 [aphillip]
(predefined counter styles)
15:34:57 [aphillip]
richard: it's currently a WD
15:36:17 [aphillip]
call for a vote on publishing "custom built counter styles" as a WG Note
15:36:28 [aphillip]
... short name of predefined-counter-styles
15:36:31 [r12a]
http://w3c.github.io/predefined-counter-styles/
15:36:37 [aphillip]
+1
15:36:38 [r12a]
+1
15:37:09 [najib]
+1
15:37:15 [Steve_Atkin]
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15:37:15 [JcK]
+1
15:37:19 [Steve_Atkin]
+1
15:37:25 [aphillip]
so resolved
15:37:35 [aphillip]
action: richard: publish predefined-counter-styles as a WG Note
15:37:36 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-536 - Publish predefined-counter-styles as a wg note [on Richard Ishida - due 2016-06-30].
15:37:52 [aphillip]
zakim, take up agendum 9
15:37:52 [Zakim]
agendum 9. "Encoding spec" taken up [from aphillip]
15:37:59 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:38:02 [aphillip]
Present+ Najib
15:38:18 [aphillip]
richard: need to take a decision to publish a new version of the Encoding CR
15:38:26 [aphillip]
... there have been substantive changes since October
15:38:48 [r12a]
https://github.com/whatwg/encoding/issues
15:38:52 [aphillip]
richard: re-worked the double byte tests
15:39:04 [aphillip]
.. submitted pull requests to WPT
15:39:18 [aphillip]
... link is to whatwg list for encoding
15:39:25 [aphillip]
... created 7 issues there
15:39:35 [aphillip]
... hoping they will get some impl discussion
15:39:41 [aphillip]
richard: three possibilities
15:39:49 [aphillip]
... one is to fix browser
15:39:54 [aphillip]
... change spec to match browser
15:40:05 [aphillip]
... or problem with the test
15:40:11 [aphillip]
... hopefully not the last
15:42:00 [r12a]
https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/encoding-dbl-byte.en
15:42:11 [r12a]
https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/encoding-dbl-byte.en#gb18030
15:45:56 [aphillip]
action: addison: file bugs against failing browsers, referring back to the encoding issue list, and update the encoding issues
15:45:56 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-537 - File bugs against failing browsers, referring back to the encoding issue list, and update the encoding issues [on Addison Phillips - due 2016-06-30].
15:46:27 [aphillip]
richard: the encodings I reworked was multibyte
15:46:38 [aphillip]
... haven't revisited single byte tests, generally better shape
15:46:47 [aphillip]
... passing tests with two impls is a CR requirement
15:46:55 [aphillip]
... weird thing here is 750K subtests
15:47:19 [aphillip]
... when you see a "partial", that means like 0.00001% of tests might have failed
15:47:30 [aphillip]
... usally not more than 1%
15:47:42 [aphillip]
... is a failure rate of < 1% mean it doesn't count
15:48:07 [aphillip]
addison: very many tests where we don't have two
15:48:10 [aphillip]
?
15:48:14 [aphillip]
richard: majority
15:52:28 [r12a]
https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/encoding-sb-dec
15:52:46 [aphillip]
steven: gb18030 concerns me the nost
15:52:51 [aphillip]
s/nost/most/
15:54:44 [aphillip]
richard: test here is conformance to encoding spec
15:54:56 [aphillip]
... might not be same as where gb18030 is defined
15:55:15 [aphillip]
... may be due to new version of 18030? maybe 18030:2005??
15:55:28 [aphillip]
... anne doesn't expect mappings to be identical to other people's
15:55:47 [aphillip]
... based on browser behaivor
15:55:51 [aphillip]
... or merging things
15:59:36 [aphillip]
richard: more tests coming shortly through this process
15:59:49 [aphillip]
... replacement encoding and utf-16 encodings and maybe user-defined
15:59:58 [aphillip]
steven: is there an impact on node.js
16:00:30 [aphillip]
addison: js is a unicode beast
16:00:58 [aphillip]
steven: need to think about more, want to think about it. could be subtle
16:01:55 [aphillip]
resolve to publish a new CR?
16:02:01 [aphillip]
richard: may need to pub another one later
16:02:26 [aphillip]
... problem is this is confusing
16:02:30 [aphillip]
... your TR isn't up to date
16:03:14 [aphillip]
addison: can just track publish if whatwg's changes
16:05:09 [aphillip]
... mapping tables different from spec/algorithm
16:05:23 [aphillip]
richard: no tests for API either
16:06:35 [aphillip]
action: addison: work with richard and PLH to establish procedure for bringing changes to encoding forward
16:06:35 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-538 - Work with richard and plh to establish procedure for bringing changes to encoding forward [on Addison Phillips - due 2016-06-30].
16:06:52 [aphillip]
resolve: publish new encoding CR?
16:07:01 [aphillip]
+1
16:07:03 [r12a]
+1
16:07:03 [Steve_Atkin]
+1
16:07:05 [najib]
+1
16:08:45 [JcK]
+1 (with procedural note)
16:09:07 [aphillip]
addison: additional changes including exit of CR requires WG approval
16:09:36 [aphillip]
s/resolve:/resolve: in principle /
16:09:43 [JcK]
+1 with "in principle"
16:09:51 [r12a]
agenda?
16:10:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:10:12 [aphillip]
Topic: AOB?
16:11:04 [najib]
najib has left #i18n
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rrsagent, make minutes
16:11:10 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:12:04 [JcK]
JcK has left #i18n
16:12:27 [aphillip]
zakim, bye
16:12:27 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #i18n
16:12:35 [aphillip]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:12:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:12:39 [aphillip]
rrsagent, bye
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: addison: ping martin about unicode in xml [1]
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T15-15-04
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: addison: add note to issue 33 saying we don't agree before closing [2]
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T15-25-40
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: richard: publish predefined-counter-styles as a WG Note [3]
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T15-37-35
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: addison: file bugs against failing browsers, referring back to the encoding issue list, and update the encoding issues [4]
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T15-45-56
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
ACTION: addison: work with richard and PLH to establish procedure for bringing changes to encoding forward [5]
16:12:39 [RRSAgent]
recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T16-06-35