14:33:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:33:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc
14:33:24 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #i18n
14:33:30 <aphillip> trackbot, prepare teleconference
14:33:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:33:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 4186
14:33:35 <trackbot> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:33:35 <trackbot> Date: 23 June 2016
14:33:35 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:34:02 <aphillip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2016Jun/0029.html
14:34:07 <aphillip> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:34:11 <aphillip> Scribe: Addison Phillips
14:34:14 <aphillip> ScribeNick: aphillip
14:34:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:34:30 <aphillip> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-i18n-core/2016Jun/0030.html
14:34:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
14:34:51 <aphillip> agenda+ Agenda
14:34:55 <aphillip> agenda+ Action Items
14:35:00 <aphillip> agenda+ Info Share
14:35:09 <aphillip> agenda+ RADAR and Active Work Review
14:35:16 <aphillip> agenda+ Specdev
14:35:24 <aphillip> agenda+ HTML 5.1 comments
14:35:27 <aphillip> agenda+ Charmod
14:35:42 <aphillip> agenda+ Move custom counter styles to Note
14:50:31 <Steve_Atkin> Steve_Atkin has joined #i18n
14:56:59 <aphillip> Present+ Steve
14:57:02 <aphillip> Present+ Addison
15:02:05 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
15:03:15 <aphillip> Present+ JcK
15:03:19 <aphillip> Present+ Richard
15:03:32 <aphillip> agenda?
15:03:42 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:03:42 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Agenda" taken up [from aphillip]
15:04:02 <aphillip> agenda+ Encoding spec
15:04:19 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 2
15:04:19 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Action Items" taken up [from aphillip]
15:04:31 <aphillip> https://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/open
15:05:36 <aphillip> close action-399
15:05:36 <trackbot> Closed action-399.
15:06:12 <aphillip> action-404?
15:06:12 <trackbot> action-404 -- Dennis Tan Tanaka to Check on zwj and friends in idna so that we can document in charmod-norm -- due 2015-02-19 -- OPEN
15:06:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/International/track/actions/404
15:06:58 <aphillip> we decided that idna and friends are out of scope for charmod
15:07:01 <aphillip> close action-404
15:07:01 <trackbot> Closed action-404.
15:07:30 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:07:30 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Info Share" taken up [from aphillip]
15:07:41 <aphillip> reminder: sign up for TPAC!
15:08:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:08:52 <aphillip> richard: published the specdev
15:09:04 <aphillip> ... and something else in TR using echidna
15:09:10 <aphillip> ... counter styles
15:09:13 <aphillip> ... was really easy
15:09:30 <aphillip> addison: saw your email will try with charmod
15:09:36 <aphillip> richard: unicode 9 released on tuesday
15:09:51 <aphillip> ... and uniview is updates
15:09:55 <aphillip> s/updates/updated/
15:11:16 <aphillip> agenda?
15:11:24 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:11:24 <Zakim> agendum 4. "RADAR and Active Work Review" taken up [from aphillip]
15:11:36 <aphillip> http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/radar/
15:13:16 <aphillip> http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/projects/
15:15:04 <aphillip> action: addison: ping martin about unicode in xml
15:15:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-534 - Ping martin about unicode in xml [on Addison Phillips - due 2016-06-30].
15:15:26 <aphillip> richard: no comments on time and dates essential comments
15:15:29 <aphillip> ... due yesterday
15:15:33 <aphillip> ... so publish it?
15:15:36 <aphillip> yep
15:15:44 <aphillip> agenda?
15:16:23 <JcK> FWIW, I forwarded the "time thing" announcement to a couple of IETF folks concerned about the issues, one of whom apparently re-forwarded to the mail calendaring list.  So there should be no shortage of people with an opportunity to review
15:16:23 <najib> najib has joined #i18n
15:16:46 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 6
15:16:46 <Zakim> agendum 6. "HTML 5.1 comments" taken up [from aphillip]
15:16:48 <aphillip> http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/
15:17:55 <aphillip> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/159
15:18:04 <aphillip> richard: need to step back a bit more
15:19:01 <r12a> http://w3c.github.io/i18n-activity/reviews/
15:20:35 <aphillip> https://github.com/w3c/html/issues/341
15:20:46 <aphillip> want to leave in, could be useful in some languages
15:21:04 <aphillip> use the incubator was suggested
15:22:53 <aphillip> addison: recollection was that this was kept in for past compat, that list-style-type was meant to replace it
15:23:32 <aphillip> ... we'd want this taken away but for compat?
15:24:14 <aphillip> richard: if could auto-detect label, that'd be a cool feature
15:25:17 <aphillip> ... write note before we close it saying we don't agree?
15:25:20 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/33
15:25:40 <aphillip> action: addison: add note to issue 33 saying we don't agree before closing
15:25:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-535 - Add note to issue 33 saying we don't agree before closing [on Addison Phillips - due 2016-06-30].
15:25:44 <aphillip> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/128
15:26:04 <aphillip> close 127
15:26:23 <aphillip> 127 is not a typo
15:28:51 <aphillip> close 128. theyy added type=submit to the ones that are default translatable
15:29:03 <aphillip> https://github.com/w3c/html/pull/503
15:29:21 <aphillip> https://github.com/w3c/html/issues/343
15:30:17 <r12a> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/133
15:32:39 <aphillip> add a question about whether to be addressed or not
15:32:47 <aphillip> and 5.1 or 5.2?
15:32:56 <aphillip> agenda?
15:33:32 <aphillip> richard: closing all annotation model comments since no objections
15:33:39 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 8
15:33:39 <Zakim> agendum 8. "Move custom counter styles to Note" taken up [from aphillip]
15:33:57 <aphillip> css working group has been discussing plans for next charter period
15:34:08 <aphillip> ... and supposed to be 3 year charter
15:34:13 <aphillip> ... number of docs to rec in that time
15:34:18 <aphillip> ... one is counter styles
15:34:25 <aphillip> ... they expect it in rec in 2018
15:34:37 <aphillip> ... thinking our draft is a WG Note
15:34:49 <aphillip> (predefined counter styles)
15:34:57 <aphillip> richard: it's currently a WD
15:36:17 <aphillip> call for a vote on publishing "custom built counter styles" as a WG Note
15:36:28 <aphillip> ... short name of predefined-counter-styles
15:36:31 <r12a> http://w3c.github.io/predefined-counter-styles/
15:36:37 <aphillip> +1
15:36:38 <r12a> +1
15:37:09 <najib> +1
15:37:15 <Steve_Atkin> Steve_Atkin has joined #i18n
15:37:15 <JcK> +1
15:37:19 <Steve_Atkin> +1
15:37:25 <aphillip> so resolved
15:37:35 <aphillip> action: richard: publish predefined-counter-styles as a WG Note
15:37:36 <trackbot> Created ACTION-536 - Publish predefined-counter-styles as a wg note [on Richard Ishida - due 2016-06-30].
15:37:52 <aphillip> zakim, take up agendum 9
15:37:52 <Zakim> agendum 9. "Encoding spec" taken up [from aphillip]
15:37:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
15:38:02 <aphillip> Present+ Najib
15:38:18 <aphillip> richard: need to take a decision to publish a new version of the Encoding CR
15:38:26 <aphillip> ... there have been substantive changes since October
15:38:48 <r12a> https://github.com/whatwg/encoding/issues
15:38:52 <aphillip> richard: re-worked the double byte tests
15:39:04 <aphillip> .. submitted pull requests to WPT
15:39:18 <aphillip> ... link is to whatwg list for encoding
15:39:25 <aphillip> ... created 7 issues there
15:39:35 <aphillip> ... hoping they will get some impl discussion
15:39:41 <aphillip> richard: three possibilities
15:39:49 <aphillip> ... one is to fix browser
15:39:54 <aphillip> ... change spec to match browser
15:40:05 <aphillip> ... or problem with the test
15:40:11 <aphillip> ... hopefully not the last
15:42:00 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/encoding-dbl-byte.en
15:42:11 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/encoding-dbl-byte.en#gb18030
15:45:56 <aphillip> action: addison: file bugs against failing browsers, referring back to the encoding issue list, and update the encoding issues
15:45:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-537 - File bugs against failing browsers, referring back to the encoding issue list, and update the encoding issues [on Addison Phillips - due 2016-06-30].
15:46:27 <aphillip> richard: the encodings I reworked was multibyte
15:46:38 <aphillip> ... haven't revisited single byte tests, generally better shape
15:46:47 <aphillip> ... passing tests with two impls is a CR requirement
15:46:55 <aphillip> ... weird thing here is 750K subtests
15:47:19 <aphillip> ... when you see a "partial", that means like 0.00001% of tests might have failed
15:47:30 <aphillip> ... usally not more than 1%
15:47:42 <aphillip> ... is a failure rate of < 1% mean it doesn't count
15:48:07 <aphillip> addison: very many tests where we don't have two
15:48:10 <aphillip> ?
15:48:14 <aphillip> richard: majority
15:52:28 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/tests/repo/results/encoding-sb-dec
15:52:46 <aphillip> steven: gb18030 concerns me the nost
15:52:51 <aphillip> s/nost/most/
15:54:44 <aphillip> richard: test here is conformance to encoding spec
15:54:56 <aphillip> ... might not be same as where gb18030 is defined
15:55:15 <aphillip> ... may be due to new version of 18030? maybe 18030:2005??
15:55:28 <aphillip> ... anne doesn't expect mappings to be identical to other people's
15:55:47 <aphillip> ... based on browser behaivor
15:55:51 <aphillip> ... or merging things
15:59:36 <aphillip> richard: more tests coming shortly through this process
15:59:49 <aphillip> ... replacement encoding and utf-16 encodings and maybe user-defined
15:59:58 <aphillip> steven: is there an impact on node.js
16:00:30 <aphillip> addison: js is a unicode beast
16:00:58 <aphillip> steven: need to think about more, want to think about it. could be subtle
16:01:55 <aphillip> resolve to publish a new CR?
16:02:01 <aphillip> richard: may need to pub another one later
16:02:26 <aphillip> ... problem is this is confusing
16:02:30 <aphillip> ... your TR isn't up to date
16:03:14 <aphillip> addison: can just track publish if whatwg's changes
16:05:09 <aphillip> ... mapping tables different from spec/algorithm
16:05:23 <aphillip> richard: no tests for API either
16:06:35 <aphillip> action: addison: work with richard and PLH to establish procedure for bringing changes to encoding forward
16:06:35 <trackbot> Created ACTION-538 - Work with richard and plh to establish procedure for bringing changes to encoding forward [on Addison Phillips - due 2016-06-30].
16:06:52 <aphillip> resolve: publish new encoding CR?
16:07:01 <aphillip> +1
16:07:03 <r12a> +1
16:07:03 <Steve_Atkin> +1
16:07:05 <najib> +1
16:08:45 <JcK> +1 (with procedural note)
16:09:07 <aphillip> addison: additional changes including exit of CR requires WG approval
16:09:36 <aphillip> s/resolve:/resolve: in principle /
16:09:43 <JcK> +1 with "in principle"
16:09:51 <r12a> agenda?
16:10:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:10:12 <aphillip> Topic: AOB?
16:11:04 <najib> najib has left #i18n
16:11:10 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:11:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:12:04 <JcK> JcK has left #i18n
16:12:27 <aphillip> zakim, bye
16:12:27 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
16:12:35 <aphillip> rrsagent, make minutes
16:12:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-minutes.html aphillip
16:12:39 <aphillip> rrsagent, bye
16:12:39 <RRSAgent> I see 5 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-actions.rdf :
16:12:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: ping martin about unicode in xml [1]
16:12:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T15-15-04
16:12:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: add note to issue 33 saying we don't agree before closing [2]
16:12:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T15-25-40
16:12:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: richard: publish predefined-counter-styles as a WG Note [3]
16:12:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T15-37-35
16:12:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: file bugs against failing browsers, referring back to the encoding issue list, and update the encoding issues [4]
16:12:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T15-45-56
16:12:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: addison: work with richard and PLH to establish procedure for bringing changes to encoding forward [5]
16:12:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/06/23-i18n-irc#T16-06-35