IRC log of sdw on 2016-06-22

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-sdw-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs world
12:56:36 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be SDW
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ok, trackbot
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Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
12:56:39 [trackbot]
Date: 22 June 2016
12:56:54 [eparsons]
Present+ eparsons
12:57:07 [eparsons]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:57:16 [eparsons]
agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160622
12:57:29 [eparsons]
Chair: eparsons
12:57:58 [Kerry]
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12:59:53 [eparsons]
Regrets: Rachel, Lars, SimonCox
13:00:06 [eparsons]
Regrets: Raúl, Payam, Linda, Andrea, PhilA, Josh, Scott, Byron, Jon, Bart, Nicky
13:01:14 [roba]
Will be there soon
13:01:40 [eparsons]
thanks rob
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present+ jtandy
13:03:08 [eparsons]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:03:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-sdw-minutes.html eparsons
13:05:16 [MattPerry]
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present+ MattPerry
13:06:17 [ChrisLittle]
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13:07:03 [ChrisLittle]
Present
13:07:19 [ChrisLittle]
Preseent+
13:07:28 [ChrisLittle]
Present+
13:10:39 [Kerry]
scribe: kerry
13:10:48 [Kerry]
scribNick: kerry
13:10:55 [eparsons]
Topic : Approve last week's minutes
13:10:56 [Kerry]
scribeNick: Kerry
13:11:08 [eparsons]
PROPOSED : Approve last week's minutes
13:11:19 [eparsons]
http://www.w3.org/2016/06/08-sdw-minutes.html
13:11:26 [jtandy]
+1
13:11:28 [eparsons]
+1
13:11:32 [Kerry]
chair: Ed
13:11:36 [MattPerry]
+0 not there
13:11:36 [Kerry]
+1
13:11:38 [eparsons]
RESOLUTION : Approve last week's minutes
13:11:47 [eparsons]
Topic : Patent Call
13:11:55 [eparsons]
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
13:12:02 [ChrisLittle]
+0 to minutes. Not present
13:12:20 [eparsons]
Topic : OWL Time FPWD Vote ?
13:12:42 [eparsons]
http://w3c.github.io/sdw/time/
13:12:44 [Kerry]
Ed: chis is here and can anser any questions
13:12:56 [Kerry]
chris: simon has done the work
13:12:59 [jtandy]
s/chis/chrislittle/
13:13:04 [ChrisLittle]
S/Chris/Chris/
13:13:21 [Kerry]
eparsons: plan was to vote and move to fpwd as simon and chris are happy
13:13:30 [jtandy]
q+
13:13:33 [Kerry]
... seems to be well structured and make logical sense
13:13:42 [Kerry]
... are there enough people here?
13:14:10 [Roba]
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13:14:34 [Kerry]
ChrisLittle: only thing that is missing is about datetime not just time, but there is more mielage in having time (e.g . milliseconds since 1970)
13:14:50 [Kerry]
...also implication you cannot use time outside 24 hours and this should be removed
13:14:58 [Roba]
Cant find the room. Not on signage or between h1.56 and h1.58!
13:15:03 [eparsons]
ack next
13:15:16 [Kerry]
eparsons: are you saying those are changes you might like to make before fpwd? that could be a showstopper for vote
13:15:31 [Kerry]
jtandy: you were going to talk about calendards and trs
13:15:48 [jtandy]
s/calendards/calendars/
13:15:50 [frans]
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13:16:09 [Kerry]
ChrisLittle: ywes, but that has come down to this problem with time implying a date ... want to put some context in here.. people confuse time with date
13:16:15 [Kerry]
...dont know where to put this
13:16:22 [Kerry]
jtandy: an annex?
13:16:48 [Kerry]
ChrisLittle: would prefer in main doc ... for context... a handful of sentences
13:16:51 [frans]
present+ frans
13:16:58 [Kerry]
jtandy: so a bit of work to do there
13:17:10 [Kerry]
... to ed's question are there enough on the call?
13:17:22 [Kerry]
.... but there is a captive audience in the room tomorrow/
13:18:14 [Kerry]
eparsons: something chris needs to work on
13:18:19 [Kerry]
...does simon agree?
13:18:26 [Kerry]
ChrisLittle: not yet
13:18:38 [Kerry]
eparsons: not yet then
13:18:41 [Kerry]
q+
13:18:56 [Kerry]
eparsons: we need to delay for 2 weeks
13:18:56 [eparsons]
ack next
13:20:00 [eparsons]
kerry: vote at next SSN meeting ?
13:20:39 [Kerry]
eparsons: we cannot vote today
13:20:50 [jtandy]
q+ to suggest capturing votes by email for SSN subgroup call
13:20:57 [eparsons]
ack next
13:20:58 [Zakim]
jtandy, you wanted to suggest capturing votes by email for SSN subgroup call
13:21:12 [Kerry]
eparsons: happy id we vote in ssn meeting
13:21:21 [Kerry]
jtandy: can we vote by email?
13:21:54 [Kerry]
eparsons: plan: chris to do those things by early next wwek and contact kerry to put vote on agenda for ssn meeting
13:22:16 [Kerry]
...if we are ready at that point pls sen message to list to invite email vote
13:22:54 [Kerry]
eparsons: can you say go or no/go on monday?
13:23:08 [Kerry]
ChrisLittle: need to be able to talk to simon
13:23:37 [Kerry]
eparsons: send email to myself and kerry on tuesday so we can make sure agenda is set for ssn meeting
13:24:32 [Kerry]
eparsons: if we can get decsion on Tuesday that will work for ssn agenda meeting
13:25:52 [eparsons]
Topic : BP Progress,
13:25:54 [Kerry]
kerry: email votes will close at the opening of the ssn meeting
13:26:02 [Kerry]
topic: BP stuff
13:26:14 [Kerry]
eparsons: was hoping linda could get here
13:26:35 [Kerry]
....you need more help then we are providing you with and we need to find some more resources for you
13:27:02 [ClausStadler]
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13:27:28 [Kerry]
jtandy: key thing for next WD for BP is the floding scenarion to offer enough detail to tech folks to understand
13:27:45 [Kerry]
...people did put their hands up but it is not moving forward
13:28:01 [Kerry]
...we need people to ask if they are unsure what is needed for each of those 9 subelements
13:28:39 [Kerry]
.... I am working on one on using elactic search and protocol buffers to serve feature data through restful servies for code snippets to put in the doc
13:29:06 [Kerry]
... I ahave not produced this yet but I am not sure that there is other stuff moving along
13:29:29 [Kerry]
eparsons: how do we know they are really best practice and not just an idea that might work?
13:29:46 [ClausStadler]
present+ ClausStadler
13:29:47 [Kerry]
...this is aimed at me -- I can point to some of these technologies but is it really best practice?
13:30:16 [Kerry]
jtandy: what constiturtes bp? something that people can do right now but does not require standards to be modified
13:30:46 [Kerry]
... what you are showing me is illustrative of something we have seen in other places.
13:31:12 [Kerry]
...here is an example of a best practice approach, so the bp is ata one level but the example is an implementation pattern
13:31:40 [Kerry]
...it is up to us to say that we recognise that as soemthing we have seen don and agree it is bp.
13:32:06 [Kerry]
eparsons: agree it does not have to be the most popular way --- examples that demonstrate the approach we think is the right thing
13:32:17 [Kerry]
.... perhaps it is the semantics of the term BP
13:32:34 [Kerry]
jtandy: need to have broad application and and example just needs to illustrate that
13:33:07 [Kerry]
... inthe fpwd we wrote 30 best practices in a list and there was lots of new stuff there, and a lot of overlap with dwbp
13:33:35 [Kerry]
...since then dwbp is far more polished and maybe 80% of ours are now sufficient in dwbp doc
13:34:06 [Kerry]
...now we to say here is some conext and some narrative with examples and this is how they should be implemented in a spatail data context
13:34:14 [eparsons]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:34:22 [Kerry]
..... the other ones are new to our group...
13:34:45 [Kerry]
....so many of our BPs will disappear becuase they are subsumed by DWBP
13:35:10 [Kerry]
...but we still have editorial task to lay out the DWBP but this activity is ongoing
13:35:36 [Kerry]
plus the examples and narrative and list of stuff that needs to be done in the broader community that need to go n the next version of the BP
13:36:39 [Kerry]
robatkinson: i can spend a couple of days reviewing current draft if that helps
13:37:27 [Kerry]
jtandy: talking it through is more important than looking over current draft -- e.g. your public comments (and [missed] from geonovum)
13:37:33 [eparsons]
q+
13:37:56 [Kerry]
.... in particular look at [missed] narrative and see if you can identify any examples for us
13:38:07 [Kerry]
robatkinson: ok
13:38:35 [Kerry]
jtandy: bart is ex-pecting to be funded to build and end-to-end testbed to show all these examples working together
13:39:12 [eparsons]
ack me
13:39:12 [Kerry]
robatknson: in the project I am doing we are building examples before september realting to cisixed scince
13:39:31 [Kerry]
jtandy: will send you something to see what we are specifically looking for
13:39:51 [Kerry]
eparsons: would you find another f2f useful to get more done?
13:40:32 [Kerry]
jtandy: yes, worth discussing with linda, we editors have struggled with time on this report, so thise is not a lot for others to go from right now
13:41:06 [Kerry]
.... linda and payam and I will all have a bit of time very shortly -- if we can focus on this then we can push harder for the others
13:41:27 [Kerry]
eparsons: could host in london
13:41:48 [Kerry]
jtandy: bp subgroup meeting last wekk agreed we can do a fpwd for vote on 27 july
13:42:03 [Kerry]
... so we will finsih for the 20th to be ready for the vote
13:42:41 [Kerry]
....the other thing from the last meeting was about the difference between spatial things and geometry etc
13:43:06 [Kerry]
.... what should go in BP? we resolved to talk about spatial things and geometires being disjoint objects
13:43:12 [jtandy]
in the Best Practice document we talk about "spatial things" and "geometries" as being disjoint objects - and no-one cares about the incredibly subtle difference between "spatial things" and the term "Feature" as used in ISO/TC 211 and OGC ... so we will use the term "spatial thing" for simplicity
13:43:21 [eparsons]
+1
13:43:33 [MattPerry]
+1 works for me
13:43:35 [Kerry]
... (as opied in by jtandy)
13:43:37 [ChrisLittle]
Q+
13:43:44 [Kerry]
eparsons: HAPPY EITH THAT
13:44:04 [Kerry]
robatkinson: we can point to BP to back that u
13:44:08 [Kerry]
s/i/up/
13:44:39 [eparsons]
ack next
13:44:46 [Kerry]
jtandy: when we spoke with TBL in sapporo it reminds me of vcard -- one is a record and one is out there but people really don't care about that
13:45:26 [Kerry]
ChrisLittle: in Dublin people are loking at objects again as opposed to features ... no bp, its all alittle early
13:45:54 [Kerry]
jtandy: we expect the spatial ontology developing by josh and frans to provide detailed defs
13:47:14 [Kerry]
robatkinson: in the borader context of BPon the web ointology is one representation but you can put up resources without the ontology but that does not have to be accepted to still have multiple representations of the thing identified
13:47:14 [jtandy]
SpatialThing: “Anything with spatial extent, i.e. size, shape, or position. e.g. people, places, bowling balls, as well as abstract areas like cubes.” [W3C Basic Geo]
13:47:27 [Kerry]
jtandy: agree, the w3cgeo record is borad enough
13:48:08 [Kerry]
eparsons: was becoming concerned that we were getting too tradiotanl gi expert, but not the 90% of use cases that need simple solutions
13:48:17 [Kerry]
...they need simple and nasty
13:49:04 [Kerry]
jtandy: rob, you have identified hte uk linked data names views for collections of properties, but in ogc standards a feature can only be of one type? how does that work?
13:49:25 [Kerry]
jtandy: not a prpble if we dont use "feature"
13:49:38 [Kerry]
robatknson: will keep that in mind
13:49:56 [eparsons]
Topic : W3C TPAC and F2F in Lisbon
13:50:05 [eparsons]
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Attending_F2F4
13:50:19 [Kerry]
eparsons: please identify whther you will be attending or not.
13:50:22 [Kerry]
present+ kerry
13:50:41 [Kerry]
...book your tickets and accommodation
13:50:55 [Kerry]
....call it a day
13:50:59 [Kerry]
any questions/
13:51:03 [Kerry]
any questions?
13:51:43 [frans]
thanks, have a good day!
13:51:43 [Kerry]
eparsons: thanks all, closing meeting. update on time early next week
13:51:53 [ChrisLittle]
Bye
13:51:58 [eparsons]
thanks kerry !!!
13:52:04 [Kerry]
rrsagent, make logs public
13:52:11 [Kerry]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:52:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-sdw-minutes.html Kerry
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