16:58:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
16:58:16 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-irc
16:58:18 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
16:58:20 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3694
16:58:20 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
16:58:21 <trackbot> Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
16:58:21 <trackbot> Date: 22 June 2016
16:59:37 <shawn> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_site_TF/Meetings#Agenda
17:00:03 <yatil> Present: AnnaBelle, Brent, Laura_Keen, Shawn, EricE
17:00:14 <yatil> Regrets: Susan
17:01:15 <yatil> Chair: AnnaBelle
17:02:00 <yatil> Scribe: EricE
17:02:28 <yatil> present+ Sharron
17:03:38 <yatil> AnnaBelle: Good conversation with Andrew.
17:03:51 <yatil> action AnnaBelle to follow up with Andrew
17:03:51 <trackbot> Created ACTION-360 - Follow up with andrew [on Anna Belle Leiserson - due 2016-06-29].
17:04:30 <Brent> Brent has joined #eo
17:05:33 <yatil> … Had some reservation to the “number one resource” goal because he was concerned about how current the WAI site could be. Would be good to refine the goals now.
17:05:51 <yatil> … Probably we could think about what our individual goals are?
17:06:12 <yatil> … My goals are: A sense of progress, would be happy to launch by late spring, being flexible.
17:06:24 <yatil> … Long term goal: Make you all happy.
17:06:44 <yatil> … Launch goal is that the site is attractive enough when we launch.
17:06:59 <yatil> i/Good conversation with Andrew./Topic: Goals
17:07:31 <yatil> [deferred until James joins]
17:07:53 <yatil> Topic: Personas Update
17:08:27 <yatil> Sharron: We had 18 general things from Alicas circulation, and then posted it to the WAI IG list.
17:09:09 <yatil> … But they are already skewed towards WAI and W3C stuff. Almost 100 responses. A bunch of data.
17:09:47 <yatil> … 100% of people are aware or very aware of accessibility, so that might not be the most valuable data to use for people outside of our realm.
17:10:23 <yatil> … Wonder what we want to do with that data… And wonder what we can do next. I don’t know what else to do.
17:11:12 <yatil> … Asked people to share outside the accessibility space, but it looks like not much happened.
17:11:27 <yatil> AnnaBelle: Should I share it to my non-a11y contacts?
17:12:47 <yatil> Sharron: I wonder if we can approach something using other peoples expertise with this data.
17:13:42 <yatil> … In the WAI-IG list we didn’t get too many “Doers” but mostly “Advocates”.
17:13:53 <yatil> … I wonder how we can go forward now.
17:14:03 <yatil> AnnaBelle: James had some concerns…
17:15:47 <yatil> Sharron: There was some concerns about the diversity, especially experienced developers which had no a11y experience and I didn’t want to make something up.
17:15:55 <shawn> Shawn's persons comments: <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-site/2016Jun/0004.html>
17:15:56 <yatil> s/AnnaBelle: James had some concerns…/
17:16:07 <yatil> s/There was some/There were some
17:16:53 <yatil> AnnaBelle: You might want to check back with James, and if you want to have me send it out to people again.
17:16:53 <yatil> q+
17:17:22 <yatil> Laura: Probably it is not about hearing about a11y but it is about taking action to implement a11y.
17:19:22 <yatil> Sharron: It is an important profile and we should try to make it accurate.
17:19:27 <shawn> reminder of old peronsa like this: https://www.w3.org/WAI/redesign/personas#coder
17:19:33 <shawn> q+
17:19:39 <yatil> q-
17:20:05 <AnnaBelle> AnnaBelle has joined #eo
17:20:13 <shawn> q?
17:20:32 <shawn> ack me
17:20:49 <shawn>  Shawn's personas comments: <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-site/2016Jun/0004.html>
17:20:54 <yatil> Shawn: I had a few minor questions on the personas.
17:21:00 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:21:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-minutes.html yatil
17:21:17 <shawn> s/minor questions/minor comments
17:21:22 <Sharron> Sharron has joined #eo
17:21:25 <Laura> Laura has joined #eo
17:21:30 <Sharron> https://www.surveymonkey.com/summary/AAhjiznh7Xvh4bgxORkHhtvUljdZtPfW91_2FAwjbh3Rc_3D
17:21:40 <shawn>  Shawn's personas comments: <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wai-eo-site/2016Jun/0004.html>
17:21:44 <shawn> reminder of old peronsa like this: https://www.w3.org/WAI/redesign/personas#coder
17:22:23 <yatil> Sharron: If Laura and James can get me some data about the people we want to have as a persona, I can go from there.
17:22:30 <yatil> q?
17:22:53 <yatil> Topic: Project Roadmap
17:24:48 <yatil> AnnaBelle: It is good to have checkpoints to go for and have a place to manage this progress.
17:26:44 <shawn> Eric: can you summarize what is depending on what
17:27:31 <yatil> AnnaBelle: This is not a real roadmap, hope James can expand on this and manage the project with dependencies and everything.
17:29:34 <yatil> … This structure is not a real roadmap but is a good starting point to distribute different tasks.
17:30:45 <yatil> … This is the place to add things, I hope we can expand. Eric can add technical things and I and James will add other items.
17:31:03 <yatil> action EricE to expand the roadmap
17:31:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-361 - Expand the roadmap [on Eric Eggert - due 2016-06-29].
17:31:15 <yatil> Topic: Visual Design Participation Strategies
17:32:17 <yatil> AnnaBelle: Many people want to help with visual design. Wondered what that looks like. I think we could come up with what we want – style tiles or mockups. But that would be really hard to do.
17:32:19 <yatil> q+
17:32:51 <yatil> AnnaBelle: One approach would be to give them instructions and a document and ask for style tiles.
17:33:04 <yatil> … I think it would help with a lot of visual designers.
17:33:19 <AnnaBelle> q?
17:33:25 <yatil> Laura: Do we neet to have an IA first before thinking about design?
17:33:40 <yatil> AnnaBelle: It might not be for Style Tiles but for Mockups.
17:33:44 <yatil> ack me
17:34:49 <shawn> eric: concerned with approach of getting lots of input, then person not available to follow up. @@
17:35:14 <AnnaBelle> http://alistapart.com/article/style-tiles-and-how-they-work
17:35:20 <shawn> ... would like process for being realistic. clear thinkinng about colors, details, etc.
17:35:51 <shawn> ... if have lots of different mock-ups or style tiles, people like bit from different ones
17:36:02 <AnnaBelle> q?
17:36:04 <shawn> ... but could be lots of things that don't work well together
17:36:47 <yatil> s/would like process for being realistic/would like process to concentrate on a very minimalistic approach and layout.
17:36:55 <AnnaBelle> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_site_TF
17:37:00 <yatil> Topic: TF Work Statement
17:37:10 <yatil> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/WAI_site_TF
17:37:16 <AnnaBelle> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Talk:WAI_site_TF_Work_Statement
17:38:34 <yatil> Shawn: In the objectives, I don’t think we need that level of detail.
17:38:58 <Laura> Laura has joined #eo
17:39:09 <yatil> Sharron: I think it is good to keep the May F2F as a reminder in the objectives to remind the group that there was a deliberate process involved.
17:39:32 <yatil> Shawn: I think it is good information to capture, but I don’t know if it belongs to here.
17:40:21 <yatil> … The link talks about the goals visual design, methodology section is empty, so I think it is not really linking to process and plan.
17:40:55 <yatil> … Also, it is mentioned in the Communication section of the work statement.
17:41:57 <yatil> Brent: Is the WAI Web Site Redesign Project wiki page a page that will change?
17:42:11 <yatil> Shawn: There is some information in there that needs to be refined.
17:42:23 <yatil> q+
17:43:26 <yatil> AnnaBelle: My opinion: I like keeping things as simple as possible, but I think @@ – I don’t have a lot of experience with Work Statements…
17:43:48 <Brent> q+
17:44:32 <yatil> Shawn: Maybe this second point helps for the first one.
17:45:27 <yatil> … In 2005 we wanted documentation the UCF process as an example, which was another thing to do to make it useful externally. I don’t think we need to do this this time.
17:46:03 <yatil> AnnaBelle: What I hear is that we document things and make this documentation publicly available.
17:46:44 <yatil> Shawn: I don’t think we need the particular goal to provide good documentation for the public. That would remove the sub-bullet altogether.
17:46:53 <yatil> AnnaBelle: That sounds good to me.
17:47:28 <yatil> Brent: What is the Audience of the Work Statement? For possible participants or for the public so they know what this TF is doing.
17:47:31 <yatil> ack b
17:48:57 <Brent> +1
17:49:26 <yatil> EricE: Probably we could reformulate point one as … redesign (…) according to the Guidance of the WG.
17:50:38 <yatil> [General support for that idea.]
17:51:58 <yatil> [Shawn incorporating several suggestions to the work statement.]
17:53:01 <Brent> +1 to delete those parts
17:53:20 <yatil> Shawn: I crossed out “in good standing”, but that is not in the process anymore. I also didn’t know about “should have experience with UCD or EOWG,”.
17:53:37 <yatil> [No objections to removing both.]
17:55:04 <yatil> Topic: Work in the next week & beyond
17:55:27 <yatil> AnnaBelle: We didn’t get to talk about the goals…
17:55:46 <yatil> Sharron: Will we redefine the goals?
17:57:00 <yatil> AnnaBelle: No, we don’t plan to do that. What we want is to see what input there is from Andrew, Laura and other people and make it as easy as possible to absorb concerns and make it easy to get to EO for sign off.
17:59:35 <yatil> ack me
18:01:35 <shawn> Eric: @@
18:03:35 <yatil> s/@@/I think we need to share as much as possible, we don’t need to get to EO with every single question. But when we get questioned on our decisions, we have something to point people to.
18:03:59 <yatil> AnnaBelle: We just want to make sure we’re not bogged down by EOWG.
18:06:07 <AnnaBelle> q?
18:06:16 <yatil> AnnaBelle: I don’t want to share first brainstorms with EOWG, but only if we decide to follow an idea.
18:06:39 <yatil> present+ James
18:07:33 <yatil> AnnaBelle: We meet again next week, same time.
18:07:53 <yatil> trackbot, draft minutes
18:07:53 <trackbot> Sorry, yatil, I don't understand 'trackbot, draft minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
18:08:01 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:08:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:09:09 <yatil> s/trackbot, draft minutes//
18:09:29 <yatil> s|Sorry, yatil, I don't understand 'trackbot, draft minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.|
18:09:34 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:09:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:10:53 <yatil> trackbot, end meeting
18:10:53 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:10:53 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AnnaBelle, Brent, Laura_Keen, Shawn, EricE, Sharron, James
18:11:01 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:11:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-minutes.html trackbot
18:11:02 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:11:02 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:11:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
18:11:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-irc
18:12:35 <yatil> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
18:12:41 <yatil> rrsagent, draft minutes
18:12:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:13:08 <yatil> rrsagent, bye
18:13:21 <yatil> rrsagent, make logs world
18:13:23 <yatil> rrsagent, bye
18:13:23 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
18:22:01 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #eo
18:22:01 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-irc
18:22:21 <yatil> Topic: Continued discussion on the TF Work Statement
18:22:57 <yatil> EricE: I don’t feel strongly but I think being public for most things might help us in the long run.
18:24:31 <yatil> AnnaBelle: I don’t think we need to have every single detail in public.
18:24:50 <yatil> EricE: I agree, not everything will be public.
18:25:12 <yatil> AnnaBelle: I wonder what the benchmark is we are held to.
18:32:16 <shawn> q+ to clarify access
18:33:20 <shawn> ack me
18:33:20 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to clarify access
18:36:00 <yatil> [Discussion about publicly visible information.]
18:36:14 <AnnaBelle> q?
18:36:37 <yatil> [Group decides to have the following sentence in the Communication section: “Additionally, WAI Web Site Redesign Basecamp is being used for preliminary project coordination. All pertinent information will be available publicly without login (in GitHub, wiki pages, WAI pages, or other) and access to the Basecamp will be provided on request.”]
18:37:53 <yatil> Topic: Meeting Next Week:
18:38:02 <yatil> s/Topic: Meeting Next Week:/Topic: Meeting Next Week
18:38:51 <yatil> AnnaBelle: I take what we have and try to consolidate and make it as clear as possible so we can address specific questions. I hope that we can roll this to EO in one or two meetings.
18:40:01 <yatil> … Also important next: Analytics
18:40:11 <yatil> James: Also a more detailed project plan.
18:40:41 <yatil> RRSAgent, draft minutes
18:40:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/22-eo-minutes.html yatil
18:42:23 <yatil> RRSAgent, bye
18:42:29 <yatil> RRSAgent, make logs world
18:42:30 <yatil> RRSAgent, bye
18:42:30 <RRSAgent> I see no action items