17:00:22 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg
17:00:22 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/06/20-aria-apg-irc
17:00:41 <mck> zakim, clear agenda
17:00:41 <Zakim> agenda cleared
17:00:49 <annabbott> present+ AnnAbbott
17:01:43 <mck> Agenda+ Organizing our efforst for success
17:01:45 <mck> Agenda+ Review format (not content) of tree pattern example page as proposal for improved example information template
17:01:54 <jemma_> jemma_ has joined #aria-apg
17:02:09 <jemma_> present+ JaEunJemmaKu
17:02:20 <mck> Agenda+ Review format (not content) of tree pattern example page as proposal for improved example information template
17:03:01 <mck> zakim, clear agenda
17:03:01 <Zakim> agenda cleared
17:03:14 <mck> Agenda+ Organizing our efforst for success
17:03:15 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria-apg
17:03:26 <mck> Agenda+ Review status of current example development work https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/Design-Patterns-Status
17:03:42 <mck> Agenda+ Review format (not content) of tree pattern example page as proposal for improved example information template
17:03:55 <MichielBijl> present+ Michiel_Bijl
17:04:23 <jongund> present+ jongund
17:04:33 <mck> present+ matt_king
17:04:55 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
17:05:44 <annabbott> scribe: AnnAbbott
17:06:17 <jamesn> scribe: annabbott
17:06:37 <mck> rrsagent, make minutes
17:06:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/20-aria-apg-minutes.html mck
17:07:09 <mck> make log public
17:07:19 <jemma_> what is on the agenda?
17:07:19 <jamesn> rrsagent, make log world
17:08:16 <jamesn> Meeting: ARIA APG TF
17:08:23 <MichielBijl> chair: Matt_King
17:08:25 <mck> rrsagent, make minutes
17:08:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/20-aria-apg-minutes.html mck
17:08:26 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
17:08:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/20-aria-apg-minutes.html jamesn
17:09:27 <annabbott> zakim, take up item 1
17:09:27 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Organizing our efforst for success" taken up [from mck]
17:10:48 <annabbott> Matt: brainstorming to speed up progress to finish by end of this year, not next year.
17:11:10 <jamesn> q+
17:11:20 <jemma_> q+
17:11:21 <annabbott> Matt: how to leverage outside resources?
17:11:48 <annabbott> Matt: wide open discussion for 10 mins...
17:13:36 <annabbott> James: might be able to speed up review process by making edits/tweaks to section without multiple times
17:13:59 <annabbott> Matt: make a branch, make some edits then review
17:14:31 <annabbott> James: use meeting time to discuss contentious items
17:14:45 <annabbott> Jemma: likes James' suggestion
17:14:53 <jamesn> ack me
17:15:21 <annabbott> Jemma: what is success criteria/goal?
17:16:33 <annabbott> Matt: "finished" means fundamentally information about each 1.1 roles. Not clear that all structural roles need to be covered.
17:16:54 <annabbott> James: agrees that not all structural roles need to be covered.
17:17:29 <annabbott> Matt: roles like headings & lists are covered elsewhere.
17:18:20 <annabbott> Matt: reviewed entire doc and ensure useful and accurate. Examples are clear.
17:18:51 <annabbott> Jemma: need list of items representing success criteria
17:19:30 <annabbott> Matt: can list high level items. Status page was intended for this purpose.
17:19:56 <annabbott> Matt: how can we leverage those not part of Task Force?
17:20:30 <annabbott> Matt: from last week's meeting, Jemma suggested Use Cases.
17:20:58 <MichielBijl> +1 to Matt's proposal
17:21:01 <jamesn> I like that
17:21:52 <annabbott> Matt: design stubs to include Use Cases to be filled out except code examples
17:22:45 <annabbott> Matt: then outside folks can add code
17:23:11 <annabbott> Jon: concern is that code examples will be all over the place - not standardized
17:23:43 <annabbott> Matt: not concerned with formatting standards, but worth discussing
17:24:17 <annabbott> Matt: could create wiki page with how to instructions
17:24:59 <annabbott> Jon: interesting idea but 1) hard to find people to make examples
17:25:21 <annabbott> Matt: thinks he can find people as long as clearly defined
17:26:06 <annabbott> Matt: confine scope so talent is used smart = learning benefit.
17:27:14 <annabbott> Jon: 2) examples clearly communicate how ARIA should be used
17:27:43 <annabbott> Jon: not a hodge podge
17:28:09 <annabbott> Matt: one of task force completes the documentation (Use Case)
17:28:47 <annabbott> Matt: may shed light on how good documentation is
17:29:02 <annabbott> Ann: would be interesting way to proof what we've got
17:31:03 <jemma_> +q
17:31:27 <annabbott> Jemma: what envisioning for wiki page?
17:31:53 <annabbott> Jemma: requirements changed all the time while working on examples
17:32:15 <annabbott> Jemma: not sure wiki page will help that
17:33:08 <annabbott> Matt: wiki page is Step by step instructions
17:34:51 <annabbott> Matt: James had an idea for editing APG, Matt's idea is on how to speed up creating examples
17:35:18 <annabbott> Matt: any other barriers that are slowing down progress?
17:35:47 <annabbott> Jemma: wiki page sounds like workflow process
17:36:56 <annabbott> Jemma: barriers are clarification for specs/ambiguity in spec
17:38:21 <annabbott> Jon: examples take time to code, refactoring, streamlining
17:39:09 <annabbott> Jon: will continue to build examples that may be more detailed
17:40:13 <annabbott> Jon: treeview will need overview page to define what the differences are between the various examples
17:40:56 <annabbott> present+ Birkir
17:43:19 <annabbott> Birkir: would it make sense to have documentation before starting examples
17:44:41 <annabbott> Matt: existing list was intended to show order - simpler to more complex
17:45:02 <annabbott> Matt: most simple widgets have examples
17:47:03 <annabbott> Birkir: assign tasks at end of each call?
17:47:44 <annabbott> Jon: need more bodies to do stuff
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17:49:48 <Birkir> present+ Birkir
17:49:59 <annabbott> Matt: core group contribution by strength would enable people outside group to contribute
17:51:41 <annabbott> Matt: another idea - perhaps planning for next meetings weeks out
17:52:14 <Birkir> How about a Face to Facebook meeting to speed things up.
17:52:23 <jemma_> +1 face to face meeting
17:55:17 <annabbott> Matt: face-to-face would be more effective if we have a LOT to review
17:58:25 <annabbott> Matt: would like to try other methods before face-to-face and judge success
17:59:59 <annabbott> Matt: started a Style guide
18:00:43 <jemma_> A style guide by Matt sounds very useful and helpful
18:01:15 <jemma_> can you share the link, Matt?
18:02:11 <annabbott> Matt: will add link to Style Guide to wiki
18:03:34 <annabbott> Matt: start with prose for examples (description) then create example code
18:04:11 <annabbott> Matt: any volunteer to write guidance for example code?
18:04:52 <annabbott> Jon: would like to review treeview work completed
18:05:22 <annabbott> Jon: need to keep in mind this is for education
18:08:10 <annabbott> Matt: write a workflow wiki page for volunteer to create example X
18:09:21 <annabbott> Jon: hard to because no agreement on what needs to be included
18:09:58 <jemma_> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki
18:10:06 <jemma_> this is home page of apg wiki
18:10:41 <annabbott> Jon: who has permissions to edit this pag e?
18:10:43 <jemma_> Matt will  make one for coding example workflow documentation.
18:12:10 <annabbott> Michiel: looking at setting up group for permissions
18:13:10 <annabbott> Matt: what is best way to get members edit access?
18:13:59 <jemma_> https://gist.github.com/
18:13:59 <annabbott> Matt: suggest Jon create markdown file
18:14:48 <MichielBijl> https://gist.github.com/MichielBijl/7f0d14a1c75f84778adf
18:18:41 <annabbott> Matt: code standards?
18:19:01 <annabbott> Matt: Ian was getting started on something
18:19:35 <annabbott> Michael: accordion, I think
18:20:12 <annabbott> Jon: use treeview as an example for code standards
18:21:29 <annabbott> Matt: next week let's plan on making some time to determine who will do what
18:21:39 <annabbott> Matt: plus review
18:22:09 <annabbott> Matt: review how to use call time
18:22:37 <annabbott> Matt: to speed up, review and make corrections when not on call
18:22:56 <jongund> https://gist.github.com/jongund/2f4510cbddd4d7ace40154656a6867d4
18:23:02 <annabbott> James: don't know how to resolve
18:25:24 <annabbott> Matt: wants to think about ways to get more off-line input
18:25:54 <MichielBijl> s/Michael/Michiel/
18:28:14 <MichielBijl> mck: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/62
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18:29:49 <Jemma__> Jemma__ has joined #Aria-apg
18:30:29 <annabbott> General discussion on how to effectively use guihub
18:31:25 <annabbott> s/guihub/github
18:32:51 <annabbott> rrsagent, make minutes
18:32:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/06/20-aria-apg-minutes.html annabbott
18:33:13 <annabbott> zakim, bye
18:33:13 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been JamesNurthen, AnnAbbott, matt_king, jaeunjemmku, jongund, JemmaJaeunKu, MichielBijl, jaeunjemmaku, birkir, bryan_garaventa,
18:33:13 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria-apg
18:33:16 <Zakim> ... Michiel_Bijl
18:40:59 <mck_> https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/tree/master
18:41:13 <jemma_> jemma_ has joined #aria-apg
18:45:44 <jamesn> http://rogerdudler.github.io/git-guide/