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12:54:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/25-sdw-irc
12:54:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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12:54:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
12:54:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
12:54:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
12:54:32 <trackbot> Date: 25 May 2016
12:55:06 <eparsons> Present+ eparsons
12:55:12 <ahaller2> ahaller2 has joined #sdw
12:55:15 <frans> frans has joined #sdw
12:55:15 <eparsons> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:55:29 <eparsons> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160525
12:55:42 <eparsons> Chair: eparsons
12:57:11 <ByronCinNZ> ByronCinNZ has joined #SDW
12:57:32 <ByronCinNZ> Present+ ByronCinNZ
12:57:33 <frans> present+ frans
12:58:06 <eparsons> hello ByronCinNZ welcome !!
12:58:16 <ByronCinNZ> Thanks
12:58:34 <kerry> kerry has joined #sdw
12:58:34 <frans> Hello Byron, how nice of you to join the club
12:58:42 <ahaller2> present+ ahaller2
12:58:51 <ByronCinNZ> My pleasureentirely
12:59:12 <kerry> trackbot, start meeting
12:59:14 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
12:59:16 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SDW
12:59:16 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
12:59:17 <trackbot> Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
12:59:17 <trackbot> Date: 25 May 2016
12:59:31 <kerry> present+ kerry
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12:59:49 <ScottSimmons> ScottSimmons has joined #sdw
13:00:03 <roba> roba has joined #sdw
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13:00:22 <Linda> Linda has joined #sdw
13:00:49 <jtandy> jtandy has joined #sdw
13:00:55 <ahaller2> ahaller2 has joined #sdw
13:01:07 <eparsons> Regrets: Rachel, Lars, SimonCox,Raúl, Jon, Nicky
13:01:13 <jtandy> zakim, code
13:01:13 <Zakim> I don't understand 'code', jtandy
13:01:20 <phila> zakim, code?
13:01:20 <Zakim> I have been told this is SDW
13:01:21 <Linda> present+ Linda
13:01:28 <Linda> Whats the webex password?
13:01:30 <ScottSimmons> present+ ScottSimmons
13:02:06 <billroberts> present+ billroberts
13:02:10 <billroberts> (mostly present anyway)
13:02:15 <phila> zakim, this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m43518e4b18b34cafab570b12e0dc39be pw sdw No. 642 889 345, +1-617-324-0000
13:02:15 <Zakim> got it, phila
13:02:22 <phila> zakim, save this description
13:02:22 <Zakim> this conference description has been saved, phila
13:02:29 <phila> zakim, code?
13:02:29 <Zakim> I have been told this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m43518e4b18b34cafab570b12e0dc39be pw sdw No. 642 889 345, +1-617-324-0000
13:02:38 <roba> present+ roba
13:02:45 <jtandy> present+ jtandy
13:03:24 <phila> present+ phila
13:04:22 <phila> scribe: phila
13:04:25 <MattPerry> MattPerry has joined #sdw
13:04:26 <phila> scribeNick: phila
13:04:36 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:04:43 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:04:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/25-sdw-minutes.html phila
13:04:44 <ByronCinNZ> Yes
13:04:50 <ByronCinNZ> Lost my mic
13:04:57 <MattPerry> present+ MattPerry
13:05:15 <phila> regrets+ Bart
13:05:44 <eparsons> Topic : Approve last week's minutes
13:05:51 <eparsons> http://www.w3.org/2016/05/11-sdw-minutes.html
13:05:59 <jtandy> +0 ... was elsewhere
13:06:04 <kerry> +1
13:06:06 <eparsons> +1
13:06:11 <phila> PROPOSED: Accept those minutes
13:06:16 <frans> +0
13:06:22 <Linda> +1
13:06:24 <ScottSimmons> +1
13:06:28 <phila> RESOLUTION: Accept minutes http://www.w3.org/2016/05/11-sdw-minutes.html
13:06:33 <ByronCinNZ> +1
13:06:39 <eparsons> Topic : Patent Call
13:06:46 <eparsons> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call
13:06:52 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call Patent Call
13:07:04 <eparsons> Topic : SSN FPWD Update
13:07:18 <kerry> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/ssn/
13:07:26 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/ssn/ SSN Ed Draft
13:07:35 <roba> +1
13:07:58 <phila> kerry: We warned folks that there wasn't much more to do before we published. Not much done since then, most of what has been done has been cosmetic.
13:08:16 <phila> ... Substatial bit was to add in the auto-generated description of the vocab.
13:08:25 <AndreaPerego> AndreaPerego has joined #sdw
13:08:35 <phila> ... People asked for the namespace to be included and linked - done.
13:08:45 <phila> ... Talked a lot about modularisation - big issue
13:09:08 <phila> ... Ant to make clear that what we have at this stage is just some ideas in the section on modularisation and work to be done.
13:09:18 <AndreaPerego> present+ AndreaPerego
13:09:28 <phila> ... So not all that fully developed but we'd like to publoished it as an FPWD/Discussion doc
13:09:41 <ahaller2> s/Ant/And
13:09:50 <phila> kerry: The SSN CG output is unchanged except for the import of the DUL ontology.
13:10:08 <ahaller2> s/publoished/published
13:10:51 <phila> kerry: Since we brought this to everyone's attention, Andrea asked for a diagram to be put in.
13:10:59 <phila> ... I pointed him to an old diagram...
13:11:11 <kerry> https://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/ssn/XGR-ssn-20110628/images/OntStructure-Overview.jpg
13:11:34 <phila> ...I didn't put it in so that I wasn't changing it yet again havign said it was stable. And because Andrea wasn't keenn on it. We had it in an earlier version and took it out.
13:11:44 <phila> ... It has a modular structure that we may not keep.
13:12:06 <AndreaPerego> Maybe it can be split into several diagrams + a general one including the main concepts.
13:12:22 <phila> eparsons: Thanks Kerry
13:12:34 <phila> kerry: Any questions?
13:12:38 <AndreaPerego> Something similar to what was done for PROV.
13:12:45 <phila> kerry: Thanks Phil for cleaning up the LODE stuff
13:12:49 <jtandy> q+
13:12:51 <phila> eparsons: Any questions and/or comments
13:12:53 <phila> ack j
13:12:56 <eparsons> ack next
13:13:05 <jtandy>        component in a material is β, given a probability α of falsely
13:13:32 <jtandy> line 346 of index.html
13:13:33 <phila> jtandy: A quick look through... if you look at the section 4.1.6 - not sure I understand that. Line 346 in the GH doc
13:13:55 <phila> kerry: That's in the automated processing in LODE. Will have come out of an annotation in the ontology itself. I'll fix that.
13:14:15 <phila> q+
13:14:44 <eparsons> ack next
13:14:45 <phila> ack me
13:15:37 <eparsons> phil : Needs to be american english capital W for web
13:15:45 <AndreaPerego> q+
13:15:49 <ahaller2> I can do that
13:16:17 <AndreaPerego> Me too ;)
13:16:21 <eparsons> ack next
13:16:22 <phila> phila: Thanks ahaller2
13:16:46 <phila> AndreaPerego: A comment on the figures... I think a diagram is very useful.
13:17:15 <phila> ... The figure that you pointed to is quite complex. Maybe an option would be to split it into different figures then have a general figure linking the entities and leaving out the details.
13:17:24 <phila> ... This was used in the PROV ontology, for example.
13:17:50 <phila> AndreaPerego: For me, looking at the doc, I just see a list of classes and properties and it's hard to understand the model
13:18:04 <phila> kerry: Although I agree with you, and what you describe has beenn done before
13:18:17 <phila> ... it was done by hand - quite a big job.
13:18:47 <phila> ... Really hesitant to do that and transfer it over given the discussions taking place at the moment. I strongly suspect that the breeak up will look quite different.
13:18:52 <roba> +1 - but perhaps a placeholder saying we intend to do so?
13:18:54 <phila> ... Not keen to take that on in the short term.
13:19:07 <phila> ... Would likely be a wasted effort
13:19:14 <jtandy> q+ to suggest you add a note to the document indicating that you're waiting for discussion to reach consensus before creating diagrams?
13:19:24 <ahaller2> +1 to not including a diagram at this stage
13:19:30 <phila> ... I could put that old picture in there but I'm not keen to take on a new diagram solution, esven though it is clearly required.
13:19:43 <phila> kerry: We could link to the SSNXG
13:20:05 <phila> AndreaPerego: I understand the problem. If we havea just the main entities, the ones unlikely to change - that's the core.
13:20:19 <phila> kerry: I'm afraid that is the main entities - SSN is quite big.
13:20:21 <frans> q+
13:20:30 <phila> AndreaPerego: I tried to visualise it using VOWL
13:20:34 <phila> ack j
13:20:34 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to suggest you add a note to the document indicating that you're waiting for discussion to reach consensus before creating diagrams?
13:20:35 <eparsons> ack jtandy
13:21:03 <phila> jtandy: I'd suggest that creating a diagram is hard, we can at least say that a diagram is coming.
13:21:03 <Linda> q+
13:21:12 <eparsons> +1 to diagram placeholder
13:21:14 <phila> kerry: That seems appropriate. I can do that.
13:21:35 <eparsons> ack next
13:21:35 <phila> jtandy: Tell people you're not going to just given them a list and expect people to stitch it together themselves.
13:22:11 <phila> frans: Slightly different question. I see you're separating from DULCE. Are you planning to tighten the link with other vocabs on time and space =- especially our Time deliverable
13:22:14 <phila> kerry: Yes.
13:22:17 <eparsons> ack next
13:22:51 <phila> Linda: GOing back to the diagram issue. I understand, as a fellow editor, that you havae time conbstraints. On the otehr hand you want feedback - don't people need a diagram to give feedback?
13:23:20 <phila> kerry: Fair view - you woldn't understand it very well without knowing SSN already.
13:23:40 <jtandy> [I wonder if you could include the old version of the diagram as a placeholder?]
13:23:44 <phila> kerry: Sounds to me as if we should link to the old one for now and say that it will be replaced
13:23:55 <jtandy> [that's the idea]
13:24:23 <phila> PROPOSAL: That the SSN doc should be linked to the old SSN diagram and text added to say that this will be updated in a future version to reflect the modularisation.
13:24:50 <phila> kerry: The people who will make useful comments abouit adding new stuff, or aligning it, what goes in what module - those people will have experience with it already
13:25:10 <phila> kerry: Short answer is no, I don't think so
13:25:32 <phila> eparsons: Any other comments or questions
13:25:52 <phila> PROPOSAL: That the SSN doc should be linked to the old SSN diagram and text added to say that this will be updated in a future version to reflect the modularisation.
13:26:01 <eparsons> +1
13:26:01 <Linda> +1
13:26:02 <phila> +1
13:26:03 <AndreaPerego> +1
13:26:04 <DanhLePhuoc> +1
13:26:05 <jtandy> +1
13:26:09 <ScottSimmons> +1
13:26:11 <billroberts> +1
13:26:12 <ByronCinNZ> +1
13:26:13 <ahaller2> +1
13:26:17 <phila> RESOLUTION: That the SSN doc should be linked to the old SSN diagram and text added to say that this will be updated in a future version to reflect the modularisation.
13:26:17 <frans> +1
13:26:23 <MattPerry> +1
13:26:29 <roba> +1
13:26:51 <phila> eparsons: So we should make that change before FPWD?
13:26:53 <phila> kerry: Yes
13:28:30 <phila> PROPOSED: That the current Editors' Draft of the SSN Ontology be published as an W3C FPWD/OGC Discussion Paper subject to - components in the material text be fixed; American English; capital W; and the diagram as resolved
13:29:11 <phila> PROPOSED: That the current Editors' Draft of the SSN Ontology be published as an W3C FPWD/OGC Discussion Paper subject to - omponents in the material text being fixed; American English being used throughout; capital W for Web; and the diagram as resolved
13:29:37 <ahaller2> +1
13:29:42 <Linda> +1
13:29:46 <AndreaPerego> +1
13:30:29 <AndreaPerego> s/havae/have/
13:30:35 <frans> +1
13:30:36 <ByronCinNZ> +1
13:30:38 <MattPerry> +1
13:30:44 <AndreaPerego> s/conbstraints/constraints/
13:30:49 <eparsons> +1
13:30:59 <AndreaPerego> s/otehr/other/
13:31:16 <roba> q+
13:31:16 <phila> ScottSimmons: This will need to be carried forward to the Geosmeantics DWG. We'll have to discuss how to do this as we don't currently have a Standards WG for this
13:31:23 <billroberts> +1
13:31:24 <AndreaPerego> s/GOing back/Going back/
13:31:25 <phila> eparsons: Good point.
13:31:53 <phila> ScottSimmons: It expedites our process - it aligns with W3C process. Community standards are very new at OGC of course.
13:32:01 <phila> kerry: is there something I should do?
13:32:07 <phila> ScottSimmons: Yes, when I know what they are
13:32:17 <phila> ... What we're doing now is adequate preparation
13:32:22 <jtandy> +1
13:32:37 <eparsons> ack next
13:32:44 <ScottSimmons> +1
13:34:10 <AndreaPerego> s/abouit/about/
13:34:53 <phila> RESOLUTION: That the current Editors' Draft of the SSN Ontology be published as an W3C FPWD/OGC Discussion Paper subject to: components in the material text being fixed; American English being used throughout; capital W for Web; and the diagram as resolved
13:35:55 <phila> phila: We'll publish it on Tuesday 31st
13:36:13 <eparsons> Topic : BP Progress, Testbed and fire service example
13:36:59 <phila> Linda: Last week we had a BP call. We haven't yet made a lot of progress on the narrative that we talked about last time. I made some progress and I see that Andrea has also done this.
13:37:18 <phila> ... I hope others who have their names on bits of the narrative will do the same.
13:37:38 <phila> ... Some people have asked whether it's appropriate to cite the Geonovum testbed as it is experiemental.
13:37:49 <phila> ... I'd like to put that to the group here.
13:37:53 <jtandy> q+ to suggest its ok
13:37:57 <eparsons> ack next
13:37:58 <phila> ack j
13:37:58 <Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to suggest its ok
13:38:30 <AndreaPerego> q+
13:38:33 <eparsons> ack next
13:38:38 <phila> jtandy: My opinion is that the stuff from the Geonovum testbed is evidence of what people are doing in the reakl world now without any new technologies so I think it's OK
13:38:42 <phila> AndreaPerego: +1 to jtandy
13:39:21 <phila> AndreaPerego: The links to the examples in the spec will be included for the long term, we need to point to some references that won't change in the near future.
13:39:26 <phila> ... No 404s please.
13:39:40 <phila> q+ to talk about local copies
13:39:58 <eparsons> ack next
13:39:59 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about local copies
13:39:59 <phila> eparsons: That might be hard - we want to give examples of what is true at the time of writing
13:40:58 <phila> phila: We can put copies in the directory with the doc on w3.org which will make it persistent
13:41:15 <phila> Linda: It might be a bit too big
13:41:19 <phila> phila: Maybe an extract?
13:41:24 <phila> Linda: That could work, yes
13:41:33 <phila> eparsons: What sort of example are we talking about here?
13:41:51 <phila> Linda: There are some code snippets in JSON and some simplification of coordinates
13:41:59 <phila> ... We plan to use more testbed content in the BP doc.
13:42:15 <phila> eparsons: OK, so code snippets and encoding, rather than references to BPs happening elsewhere.
13:42:17 <phila> eparsons: OK
13:42:48 <phila> Linda: The otehr subject that we want to talk about is the fire department example. Bart has offered to work on a consolidated example around the flooding narrative
13:43:02 <AndreaPerego> s/otehr/other/
13:43:06 <phila> ... He'll do this within the context of the project he has witeh the Dutch fire department. So that's running code.
13:43:14 <phila> Linda: That's my update.
13:43:24 <AndreaPerego> s/witeh/with/
13:43:32 <phila> eparsons: Thank you then. So those of us who have our names there should be getting on with this.
13:44:10 <phila> jtandy: One of the things that I'm doing is going through the almost final DWBP Doc www.w3.org/TR/2016/WD-dwbp-20160519/
13:44:30 <phila> ... It's turned into a very good doc. I think all the BPs they're tallking about are relevant for spatial data. We don't need to focus on them all.
13:44:38 <phila> ... Others we may chose to specialise
13:44:43 <AndreaPerego> s/tallking/talking/
13:44:46 <phila> ... It doesn't talk about linking as much as I'd like.
13:45:05 <phila> jtandy: I'm looking at how we can capitalise on their work without repeating it.
13:45:33 <phila> jtandy: I'd like to make a proposal back to SDW in future about what to do with this.
13:45:56 <AndreaPerego> q+
13:45:59 <phila> eparsons: I was looking at the doc this morning. It's very good. I like the structure. Happy that we're borrowing some of that structure.
13:46:13 <eparsons> ack next
13:46:45 <phila> AndreaPerego: This happened to me when we were drafting the bit on metadata. I went through our BPs and DWBP BPs and found the matches and relationships
13:47:20 <phila> AndreaPerego: Some of the requirements - I was explaining in the narrative that some of the BPs aren't mentioned in our narrativeas they're more generic.
13:47:55 <phila> AndreaPerego: I think it's important to explicitly say that this is a specialisation of BP {x} and how to enforce it in the spatial domain.
13:48:02 <roba> q+
13:48:08 <phila> jtandy: Everything in that doc is relevant, but we have some extra stuff to say.
13:48:09 <eparsons> ack next
13:48:42 <phila> roba: I did post a comment to the list in reponse to Andrea's comment. I thought there was some weakness in the BPs in that metadata was focussed on discovery metadata
13:48:49 <phila> ... There were referecnes for data quality.
13:48:54 <frans> do data on the web best practices have URIs?
13:49:01 <AndreaPerego> s/referecnes/references/
13:49:15 <phila> ... There were mechanisms for machine readable structural metadata. We see times when we want differnet flavours on metadata.
13:49:30 <phila> ... It's not clearly described for how to attach these things to real world objects on the Web.
13:49:42 <phila> roba: maybe it's worth making a commnet to DWBP
13:49:48 <Linda> Yes Frans they do
13:50:14 <AndreaPerego> s/commnet/comment/
13:50:52 <phila> jtandy: They're going to fix errors, but they're probably not going to add new sections now
13:51:00 <AndreaPerego> s/differnet/different/
13:51:04 <phila> ... SO if there's something missing then we should put it in ours.
13:51:20 <phila> roba: Now's the last chance to make changes then.
13:51:36 <AndreaPerego> s/SO if there's/So if there's/
13:51:37 <phila> eparsons: IF there's something we need that's missibng then,OK, we'll add it.
13:51:59 <phila> s/IF/If/
13:52:00 <AndreaPerego> s/IF there's something we need that's missibng/If there's something we need that's missing/
13:52:02 <eparsons> Topic: Time Progress
13:52:09 <eparsons> http://w3c.github.io/sdw/time/
13:52:15 <phila> eparsons: this is stuff that Simon has been getting on and doing
13:52:18 <frans> Does the SDW BP reference DW best practices by URI?
13:52:21 <phila> ... Pretty much on his own.
13:52:39 <phila> ... He has difficulty joining these calls due to time zone isuses.
13:52:51 <phila> ... I guess this is a call for us to look at it and then socialise it/.
13:52:57 <AndreaPerego> s/isuses/issues/
13:53:03 <phila> eparsons: But note that there is a lot of good work going on.
13:53:31 <phila> jtandy: Chris is still involved and working with Simon. I've been in Geneva so a bit out of the loop.
13:53:45 <phila> eparsons: I just want to make sure it's not just Simon working in isolation.
13:54:07 <phila> jtandy: I believe Simon is taking his previous work and putting it into shape. Chris is providing wider context
13:54:13 <eparsons> Topic : W3C TPAC and F2F in Lisbon
13:54:26 <eparsons> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Attending_F2F4
13:54:38 <phila> eparsons: I'm particularly asking you to think about. Whether you're going to be attending or not attending eitehr way.
13:54:56 <AndreaPerego> s/eitehr/either/
13:55:06 <phila> ... We keep badgering you about this as it's a touristy place at a touristy time. Hotels will be booked etc.
13:55:07 <phila> q+
13:55:20 <eparsons> ack next
13:55:30 <phila> jtandy: but panicking about where you're going to stay is part of the fun
13:55:40 <AndreaPerego> q+
13:56:13 <eparsons> ack next
13:56:20 <phila> phila: The planners need to know one way or the other
13:56:39 <phila> AndreaPerego: I'm trying to book my flight and hotel, but I'm not sure about the relevant days.
13:57:00 <phila> ... We have Mon-Tue and the plenary day. Can we have meetings with other WGs?
13:57:32 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/schedule.html Schedule
13:58:23 <phila> eparsons: The added complexity of course is the concurrent OGC TC
13:58:30 <phila> ... I certainly aim to be there Mon-Wed
13:58:56 <phila> eparsons: Thanks everyone. Good timing today. Meet in this plenary in 2 weeks' time
13:58:56 <AndreaPerego> Thanks, and bye!
13:59:01 <ahaller2> bye
13:59:06 <frans> thanks and have a good day
13:59:14 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:59:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/25-sdw-minutes.html phila
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