11:59:31 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #poe
11:59:31 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/23-poe-irc
11:59:33 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
11:59:33 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #poe
11:59:35 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
11:59:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
11:59:36 <trackbot> Meeting: Permissions and Obligations Expression Working Group Teleconference
11:59:36 <trackbot> Date: 23 May 2016
11:59:41 <phila> zakim, code?
11:59:41 <Zakim> I have been told this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m4a8e3a5032905e8ce9ef1f4b569fcc2e Or by phone +1-617-324-0000, access code: 648 497 127
12:00:01 <michaelS> michaelS has joined #poe
12:00:41 <ivan> Present+ Ivan
12:00:57 <renato> Present+ Renato
12:01:00 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160523
12:01:01 <michaelS> present+ michaelS
12:01:09 <victor> present+ victor
12:01:15 <jo> present+ jo
12:01:24 <Brian_Ulicny> Brian_Ulicny has joined #poe
12:02:03 <renato> Any volunteers to Scribe? Or we take the next on the list: https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Scribes
12:02:23 <Brian_Ulicny> present+ Brian_Ulicny
12:02:38 <phila> regrets+ Mo, Simon
12:03:22 <Serena> present+ Serena
12:04:37 <jo> scribe: jo
12:05:03 <jo> topic: Last meeting minutes
12:05:08 <sabrina> sabrina has joined #poe
12:05:37 <renato> https://www.w3.org/2016/05/16-poe-minutes
12:05:40 <jo> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes from 15 May
12:05:52 <jo> s/15/16/
12:05:57 <phila> +1
12:05:58 <Serena> +1
12:06:04 <Brian_Ulicny> +1
12:06:21 <jo> RESOLUTION: PROPOSAL: Approve minutes from 16 May
12:06:39 <phila> RESOLUTION: Approved minutes from 16 May
12:06:42 <jo> s/PROPOSAL://
12:07:11 <benws2> benws2 has joined #poe
12:07:31 <jo> topic: Formal Semantics Note Editors
12:07:39 <benws2> present+ benws2
12:07:52 <jo> Simon, Sabrena, Victor have volunteered to be editors
12:08:26 <phila> s/Sabrena/Sabrina/
12:08:32 <jo> s/Simon/renato: simon/
12:09:09 <jo> topic: Name of deliverables
12:09:28 <jo> renato: Carry over from last week, Action was on Ben
12:09:41 <jo> benws: I failed to make a proposal
12:09:51 <jo> reanto: carry over to next week
12:10:02 <jo> s/reanto/renato/
12:10:38 <jo> topic: use cases
12:11:04 <jo> michaels: Phila changes some things this morning
12:11:22 <jo> phila: I did two things, 1 add a use case from Euro Data Portal
12:11:38 <jo> ... they have had to look through all licenses attached to data
12:11:51 <jo> ... they have made a grid of what inter operates with what
12:12:02 <jo> ... I made that into a requirement
12:12:41 <jo> ... key thing is to be able to express "this interpretation is a view of person x" i.e. provenance is important
12:12:59 <jo> ... not a legal claim
12:13:13 <jo> ... I also made a trivial amenment to Stuart's use case
12:13:39 <jo> michaels: Stuart's use case - use case 07 has been added
12:13:59 <jo> ... first item also appears in many others
12:14:10 <jo> ... "supports ODRL 2.1"
12:14:28 <smyles> smyles has joined #poe
12:14:28 <jo> ... so we need to collect the current ODRL requirements
12:14:39 <smyles> present+ smyles
12:14:44 <michaelS> Requirements page https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Requirements
12:14:54 <jo> ... should this be done in the ODRL community or here?
12:15:24 <jo> (silence)
12:15:54 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/community/odrl/wiki/Call_for_requirements_towards_an_ODRL_Linked_Data_profile ODR:L Reqs?
12:16:11 <jo> phila: I have found a page that has a call for requirements for a linked data profile
12:16:15 <james> james has joined #poe
12:16:17 <jo> ... a lot of material there
12:16:37 <jo> ... however there is no existing document that collects all ODRL requirements
12:16:51 <jo> renato: there so is
12:16:55 <victor> https://www.w3.org/2012/09/odrl/archive/odrl.net/2.0/WD-v2req-20050213.html
12:17:37 <jo> ... after 1.1 we put together requirements based on feedback
12:17:51 <jo> ... we used that as a baseline
12:18:11 <jo> phila: need something in a stable place ...
12:18:11 <sabrina> present+ sabrina
12:18:39 <jo> ... the phil tests is "can I read this and assess whether POE meets those requirements"
12:18:50 <jo> s/tests/test/
12:19:04 <jo> renato: this is not a normal working group
12:19:24 <james> present+
12:19:28 <jo> ... yes, we start from the baseline of ODRL 2.1
12:19:40 <james> Apologies for joining late!
12:19:42 <jo> ... meets community requirements
12:20:08 <jo> ... not sure whether going trough the rtequirements for 2.0 2.1 gets us anywhere
12:20:21 <jo> s/rtequirements/requirements
12:20:31 <jo> s/trough/through/
12:20:43 <jo> ... better to move on to new stuff
12:21:31 <jo> ... don't think that everything that is supported is in the requirements
12:21:51 <jo> phila: it's the delta we need to identify
12:22:05 <jo> renato: it's a given that 2.1 requirements are supported
12:22:10 <jo> q+
12:22:53 <jo> ... michael and ben, we havea collection of use cases on the Web site and we need to end up with a note
12:23:17 <jo> ... are you happy with the way it's going, what input do you need
12:23:46 <jo> benws: need more use cases and I need to add some. Likely to be iterative in that some will suggest others.
12:23:58 <jo> ... after that I can feed back to group what the delta is
12:24:11 <michaelS> q+
12:24:25 <renato> https://www.w3.org/TR/sdw-ucr/
12:24:31 <jo> renato: looking at what others in W3C have done
12:24:34 <jo> q-
12:25:10 <jo> ... is this something that we want to copy?
12:25:30 <jo> phila: doubt we need to produce one that long
12:25:59 <renato> https://www.w3.org/TR/shacl-ucr/
12:26:01 <jo> ... don't expect there to be 50 use cases, but the structure is very good, in-document hyperlinks are auto generated
12:26:10 <jo> ... so less work than you might think
12:26:48 <Serena> q?
12:27:04 <jo> benws: we have discussed having a primer "how ODRL can solve your rights management issues"
12:27:16 <jo> ... can the use case morph into a primer?
12:28:15 <jo> renato: current ODRL has "Scenarios" to help the reader understand what problem is being solved
12:28:18 <michaelS> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/actions/open
12:28:37 <jo> michaels: I looked at open actions page and there are some use case actions in there
12:28:46 <jo> ... people whould close actions if they have done it
12:28:53 <jo> q+ top talk about closing actions
12:29:18 <jo> q+
12:29:24 <jo> ack m
12:29:37 <michaelS> q-
12:29:44 <jo> phila: I m leaving my actions open as I am still talking
12:30:01 <jo> rrsagent, list actions
12:30:01 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
12:30:54 <jo> ACTION-7?
12:30:54 <trackbot> ACTION-7 -- Benedict Whittam Smith to Provide use cases on financial data -- due 2016-04-18 -- OPEN
12:30:54 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/actions/7
12:31:19 <jo> ack me
12:32:40 <jo> jo: if you think you have done your action, mark it as pending review
12:33:05 <jo> ... then on the next call it can get closed during the next call\
12:33:12 <phila> q+ to review my action-4
12:33:16 <jo> s/call\/call/
12:33:24 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Use_Cases#POE.UC.03_Published_article_with_embargoed_dataset Use Case
12:33:40 <jo> ACTION-4?
12:33:40 <trackbot> ACTION-4 -- Phil Archer to Write use case from VRE project about time limited restrictions and metadata -- due 2016-04-25 -- PENDINGREVIEW
12:33:40 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/track/actions/4
12:34:01 <jo> phil: I have completed action-4
12:34:11 <benws2> +1
12:34:18 <phila> close action-4
12:34:18 <trackbot> Closed action-4.
12:34:33 <benws2> q+
12:34:48 <phila> q-
12:35:13 <jo> renato: any other use cases you want to discuss on this call
12:35:33 <jo> benws: want to understand the point victor made about adding additional information
12:35:58 <jo> victor: I was requested to provide additional info, but need more info from editors as to how to do this
12:36:12 <phila> q+ to talk about numbering
12:36:32 <benws2> ack b
12:36:52 <jo> michaels: I have raised some thing responding to victor
12:37:08 <jo> renato: victor can you get back to michaels
12:37:16 <jo> victor: yes I did
12:37:23 <jo> michaels: then I asked more questions
12:37:29 <phila> ack me
12:37:29 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about numbering
12:38:14 <jo> phila: trivially, we are putting numbers on the use cases, which is nice, but they get transferred across to documents which turns out weird and confusing
12:38:31 <jo> ... let's use the not numbering
12:38:39 <jo> ... or we could refer by name
12:38:51 <jo> regrets+ caroline
12:39:52 <jo> jo: surely better not to number things since it makes it more difficult to change order (i.e. name them)
12:40:23 <jo> renato: give every use case a short name
12:40:32 <jo> ... two three words at most
12:40:33 <michaelS> Supports short names
12:40:52 <victor> +1
12:41:19 <benws2> +1
12:42:21 <jo> PROPOSAL: we use short names to refer to use cases on both wiki and in the document
12:42:28 <phila> +1
12:42:32 <renato> +
12:42:33 <james> +1
12:42:34 <ivan> 0
12:42:36 <smyles> +1
12:42:36 <sabrina> +1
12:42:37 <michaelS> +1
12:42:38 <Brian_Ulicny> +1
12:42:38 <renato> +1
12:42:47 <jo> RESOLUTION: we use short names to refer to use cases on both wiki and in the document
12:43:14 <jo> renato: back to use case analysis
12:43:30 <jo> ... anything more from the editors or anyone else
12:43:50 <jo> michaels: may deadline is "in doubt"
12:44:01 <jo> renato: june?
12:44:14 <jo> michaels: more realistic
12:44:25 <phila> W3C isn't going to worry about one month delay at this stage. Later stages, yes, but not yet.
12:44:31 <jo> PROPOSAL: New deliverable date for use cases is end June
12:44:40 <phila> q+
12:44:41 <Serena> +1
12:44:43 <james> +1
12:44:46 <phila> +1
12:44:47 <benws2> +1
12:44:48 <michaelS> +1
12:44:49 <Brian_Ulicny> +1
12:44:50 <ivan> +1
12:44:51 <renato> +1
12:44:52 <sabrina> +1
12:44:59 <smyles> +1
12:45:01 <Serena> q?
12:45:04 <jo> RESOLUTION: New deliverable date for use cases is end June
12:45:09 <phila> ack me
12:45:10 <jo> ack p
12:45:31 <jo> phila: if we are able to publish use cases end june, then so much the better
12:45:58 <jo> ... if we can add the first drafts of the other docs
12:46:07 <jo> ... then we have baseline and delta
12:46:22 <jo> ... same day publication of all three docs
12:46:24 <benws2> +1
12:46:31 <jo> renato: agree
12:47:25 <jo> ... we will publish all three end of June, give the community some idea of where we are heading
12:48:15 <jo> phila: end of June is latest it can be done as summer hols kick in
12:48:48 <michaelS> q+
12:48:50 <jo> renato: any moratoria or something?
12:48:57 <jo> phila: no
12:49:16 <jo> michaels: then we need a cut off date for use cases
12:49:30 <phila> q+ to throw a spanner
12:49:47 <jo> ... we wanted them in April. Some are still missing, so we need them early June otherwise they won't be included
12:50:01 <jo> renato: agree
12:50:30 <jo> phila: actually we can't publish exactly the alst week in June, but we would in 1st week of July
12:50:38 <jo> s/alst/last/
12:50:56 <phila> +1 to Michael's deadline suggestion
12:51:10 <jo> renato: so back to michael's point, deadline for submission of use cases is June 6
12:51:55 <jo> benws: can't guarantee that any use case that comes in after thn will make the first draft document
12:52:09 <jo> s/thn/then/
12:52:24 <jo> renato: any more on use cases?
12:53:17 <jo> topic: open actions
12:53:24 <jo> renato: we already looked at them
12:53:31 <jo> topic: any other business
12:54:01 <jo> renato: tpac is coming, if you can come please update your status
12:54:13 <jo> ... a "fun week" worth coming!
12:54:28 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2016/poe/wiki/Attending_F2F1 TPAC
12:54:31 <jo> phila: also if you can't go please also fill in your info
12:55:07 <jo> ... to help with logistics
12:55:15 <jo> [meeting closed]
12:55:18 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
12:55:30 <jo> rrsagent, make logs public
12:55:41 <jo> rrsagent, make minutes
12:55:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/23-poe-minutes.html jo
12:55:57 <Brian_Ulicny> -1
12:56:00 <smyles> -1
12:56:03 <michaelS> +1
12:56:05 <sabrina> +1
12:56:15 <jo> STRAW POLL: who can come next week?
12:56:18 <phila> -1
12:56:18 <james> 0
12:56:18 <jo> -1
12:56:21 <Serena> +1
12:56:21 <renato> +1
12:56:24 <michaelS> +1
12:56:36 <sabrina> +1
12:56:40 <smyles> -1
12:56:44 <jo> s/[meeting closed]//
12:56:58 <jo> phila: gingoistic comment of some kind
12:57:30 <jo> renato: next week's call will go ahead
12:57:36 <jo> [meeting closed]
12:57:45 <Serena> Serena has left #poe
12:57:49 <jo> rrsagent, make minutes
12:57:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/23-poe-minutes.html jo
12:58:05 <phila> chair: Renato
12:58:18 <phila> RRSAgent, make minutes
12:58:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/23-poe-minutes.html phila
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