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13:42:23 <Lisa_Seeman> regrets: ayelet seeman, Rich Schwerdtfeger
13:49:15 <Lisa_Seeman> Meeting:The Cognitive Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:49:16 <Lisa_Seeman>   Chair:Lisa_Seeman
13:49:18 <Lisa_Seeman>   agenda: this
13:49:19 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  review actions, and timelines
13:49:21 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  TPAC
13:49:22 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+  Tables https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html#table1 also look at https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/index.html, https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/techniques/index.html, https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/safety.html and https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga
13:49:24 <Lisa_Seeman> /master/issue-papers/privacy-security.html
13:49:25 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ What have we missed for issues page,globish etc
14:35:56 <Rich> Rich has joined #coga
14:40:00 <Lisa_Seeman> agenda+ What have we missed for issues page,globish etc
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16:01:30 <janina_> present+ Janina
16:02:21 <kirkwood> present + kirkwood
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16:02:58 <thaddeus> present Thaddeus
16:03:31 <thaddeus> present + Thaddeus
16:04:59 <ddahl> ddahl has joined #coga
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16:06:21 <Susann_Keohane> hi - whats the passcode on the phone line
16:07:05 <kirkwood> I believe that mine is ready to go.
16:07:40 <JohnRochford> Susann, I will send it to you via email. Hold on...
16:08:53 <Lisa_Seeman> scribe: thaddeus
16:09:51 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:10:19 <thaddeus> waiting for issue papers from Janina and john kirkwood
16:10:35 <thaddeus> next action item is the table
16:10:48 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:10:58 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:11:33 <thaddeus> moving away from editorial items and into other items
16:12:26 <thaddeus> will be sitting with other groups such as WCAG and ARIA and will be seeing what they are doing and who we should involve in COGA
16:13:02 <thaddeus> John is likely to attend the conference debbie will be attending
16:13:33 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:13:52 <thaddeus> discussing days to meet during the conference. Mike will not be able to attend the conference
16:14:49 <Lisa_Seeman> next item
16:14:51 <thaddeus> if people can let Lisa know who is planning on attending after the meeting it would be helpful
16:15:31 <thaddeus> looking at table 1 trying to zoom in on issue paper road maps
16:15:40 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html#table1
16:15:48 <thaddeus> we have multiple tables that address a set of user needs
16:16:01 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/privacy-security.html
16:16:12 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/safety.html
16:16:17 <thaddeus> a group of user needs based on Privacy and Security and Online Safety
16:16:52 <thaddeus> have users stories been accurately represented?
16:17:03 <thaddeus> John knows the data well and can weigh in
16:17:14 <thaddeus> 1. look at user needs
16:17:36 <thaddeus> 2. look at how we are addressing in the extensions of COGA
16:17:54 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/extension/index.html
16:18:04 <thaddeus> Extensions can be expanded using the "expand" link
16:18:17 <thaddeus> 1. Extenstions of WCAG
16:18:22 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/techniques/index.html#keep-the-user-safe
16:18:32 <thaddeus> 2. Recommendations non-normative
16:18:46 <thaddeus> Sorry Techniques not recommendations
16:19:06 <thaddeus> co,un 3 is new semantics that are being suggested
16:19:13 <thaddeus> column 3
16:20:17 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:20:34 <thaddeus> Open conversation - do these address the correct user needs?
16:21:24 <thaddeus> The question on the table is do you think all user needs are there on the first paper - Security
16:21:45 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html#table1
16:21:51 <ddahl> q+ to ask if the second row is any different from safety for any user?
16:22:04 <thaddeus> Disscussing the table - the user stories at the top of the table
16:22:49 <thaddeus> Lisa feels like there probably is a user story that is missing
16:23:08 <thaddeus> user needs are different from user stories but they should may
16:23:09 <thaddeus> map
16:23:31 <thaddeus> do we have the right user stories and the right user needs
16:24:09 <thaddeus> next to user needs are WCAG extention for COGA
16:24:25 <Lisa_Seeman> (§ expand)
16:24:30 <thaddeus> It is suggested that the expand button be opened in a new window
16:24:58 <thaddeus> currently it doesnt expand it is just a link. In the future it will expand
16:25:39 <thaddeus> Does the success criteria meet the user need
16:26:39 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/techniques/index.html#minimize-the-cognitive-skills-required-to-use-the-content-when-there-is-a-known-alternative
16:28:04 <thaddeus> some links may not be working because of the GitHub transfer
16:29:01 <thaddeus> John will get back to Lisa after the call. If everyone could look at the table it would be useful
16:29:11 <thaddeus> any comments on user needs from the group?
16:29:11 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:29:24 <thaddeus> A question on the second one
16:29:43 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/safety.html
16:29:52 <thaddeus> everyone needs a safe way to interact not just COGA
16:30:21 <thaddeus> the needs for people in this group are more pronounced because this group can be targeted first
16:30:44 <thaddeus> these are the most vulnerable users and this needs visibility
16:31:30 <thaddeus> People with impairments are being targeted and the group needs to mindful of this
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16:32:44 <KurtM> Present KurtM
16:33:10 <thaddeus> maybe replace the word user need with usage in this case as the user need is not unique to this group
16:33:25 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/gap-analysis/table.html#table1
16:33:48 <thaddeus> maybe these is a possible clarification to the user need
16:34:46 <thaddeus> we could possibly divide this into two user needs
16:36:03 <thaddeus> examples: making a purchase automatically set the purchase number from one to two and this could go unnoticed
16:36:31 <thaddeus> incrementing purchase quantities could be an issue for this group
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16:37:04 <thaddeus> you are not a COGA friendly site if you are using such practices
16:37:32 <thaddeus> another example is downloading unwanted software along with a wanted download
16:37:50 <thaddeus> possibly name the table authentication and safety
16:39:05 <thaddeus> renaming theable authentication and safety would be more clear and add a user need
16:39:27 <Lisa_Seeman> As a user who has impairments I need to be able to use a site without being required to copy itemes in the correct sequence
16:40:18 <thaddeus> the story lisa jsut entered could possibly be the story that is missing
16:40:58 <thaddeus> we may already addressing in 3.4.4 however lisa is suggesting this as another user need
16:42:16 <thaddeus> for simplicity we could wait for feedback instead of adding this - give the basics instead of more detailed needs
16:42:53 <thaddeus> john has a worry that we could overload people with information and people will not pay attention
16:43:55 <thaddeus> Lisa indicates that other groups need more information and the engineering side of these solutions. These are not for content authors they are for other groups within the w3c
16:44:13 <Lisa_Seeman> I need a method of secure website authentication that I find easy to use
16:44:15 <Lisa_Seeman> (Assume I have cognitive and memory impairments)
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16:45:01 <Lisa_Seeman> I need a method of secure website authentication that I find easy to use
16:45:03 <Lisa_Seeman> (Assume I have cognitive and memory impairments)
16:45:38 <thaddeus> adding "Assume I have" gives more context
16:46:10 <JohnRochford> q+
16:46:21 <Lisa_Seeman> ack d
16:46:21 <Zakim> ddahl, you wanted to ask if the second row is any different from safety for any user?
16:47:31 <thaddeus> Debbie agrees that adding "Assume I have" may help
16:48:13 <Lisa_Seeman> (Assume I do not have the cognative function to identify all the risk)
16:48:43 <thaddeus> It was suggested that there is a problem with  the word "vulnerability" as this is an issue  across groups including the elderly
16:49:07 <EA> I like it
16:49:37 <thaddeus> Now looking at personalization
16:49:39 <EA> I meant cognitive function to identify all the risks
16:49:45 <JohnRochford> q-
16:50:31 <thaddeus> 2 proposals in the extentions
16:50:45 <thaddeus> do not expose user information ....
16:51:04 <thaddeus> do not add mechanisms in a way that would do them harm
16:51:23 <thaddeus> does this fullly cover the issue? or does something need to be added
16:51:43 <JohnRochford> q+
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16:51:57 <Lisa_Seeman> ack q
16:52:20 <thaddeus> John wonders where we define "harm"
16:52:40 <thaddeus> "harm" can be defined through the WCAG extension
16:53:06 <thaddeus> last time we discussed defining harm through the techniques
16:53:44 <thaddeus> John suggests that the definition of "harm" is important to the context
16:54:55 <thaddeus> Can we give examples without being exhaustive. This maybe a question for WCAG on the best place to define
16:56:15 <thaddeus> discussing using deliberate harm vs accidental harm
16:56:42 <thaddeus> no one will admit to deliberate harm
16:57:56 <thaddeus> we are not saying that authors need to do anything active from causing harm and this could be a problem
16:58:46 <thaddeus> we define known techniques so they are finite
16:59:39 <Lisa_Seeman> q?
16:59:47 <Lisa_Seeman> ack j
16:59:51 <JohnRochford> q-
17:00:42 <thaddeus> need to clearly define the amount of harm. There is a lot of ambiguity
17:01:21 <thaddeus> It is suggested that we need something before the word harm to provide more context
17:02:18 <thaddeus> it feels like we are getting the hang of these tables and they will be of use
17:02:34 <thaddeus> will finish this table next week
17:03:09 <ddahl> ddahl has left #coga
17:03:10 <thaddeus> thank you
17:03:19 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, make logs public
17:03:26 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, create minutes
17:03:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/16-coga-minutes.html Lisa_Seeman
17:07:43 <Lisa_Seeman> zakim, please part
17:07:43 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Janina
17:07:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #coga
17:07:46 <Lisa_Seeman> https://rawgit.com/w3c/coga/master/issue-papers/Personalization-and-User-Preferences.html
17:09:52 <Lisa_Seeman> rrsagent, please part
17:09:52 <RRSAgent> I see no action items