00:03:29 Zakim has left #eo 01:52:09 shawn_ has joined #eo 02:59:25 shawn has joined #eo 14:03:51 RRSAgent has joined #eo 14:03:51 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-irc 14:03:53 RRSAgent, make logs world 14:03:53 Zakim has joined #eo 14:03:55 Zakim, this will be 3694 14:03:55 ok, trackbot 14:03:56 Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference 14:03:56 Date: 12 May 2016 14:08:59 Present+ Katie Haritos-Shea 14:09:24 OK 14:09:48 present+ EricE 14:10:26 Howard has joined #eo 14:10:37 present+ Howard 14:10:52 scribe:Howard 14:11:34 present+ shawn 14:12:17 James has joined #eo 14:12:35 Topic: Website Redesign 14:13:59 Susan has joined #eo 14:15:50 .me missed that 14:16:02 Can do it if you give me the meeting number and link 14:18:33 Jeff Klein: policy driven adoption... 14:19:15 preesent+ JeffKline 14:19:16 ... rather than having just technical rules, there should be governance procedures. 14:19:24 present+ JeffKline 14:20:12 ... 6 point framework. Focused into the vendor space. Questionnaire is part of the PDA. 14:22:12 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:22:12 Present: Katie, Haritos-Shea, EricE, Howard, shawn, JeffKline 14:22:45 present+ Susan, Sharron, James, Denis 14:22:49 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:22:49 Present: Katie, Haritos-Shea, EricE, Howard, shawn, JeffKline, Susan, Sharron, James, Denis 14:22:57 Anna Belle: 6 basic steps of redesign. 14:23:13 present+ Shadi(phone) 14:26:06 Sharron: all our goals need to be measurable. 14:26:41 Anna Belle: want to get to one primary goal and then secondary ones. 14:27:57 Susan: goal to update the site to make it more clear and engaging to users. 14:28:17 ... Plain language, tone. 14:28:38 Dennis: anyone can come to site and can identify the things that are relevant to them. 14:29:01 ... Don't have to search through everything to find what is relevant. 14:29:24 Susan: want site to be number 1 place to go to for web accessibility. 14:29:42 James: increase traffic and reduce drop off. 14:30:00 ... increase satisfaction. 14:30:12 ... Improve credibility. 14:30:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:30:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html yatil 14:30:36 Jeff: Would like to see multiple entry modes to increase exposure to success criteria, 14:31:08 ... intermediate and advanced. Structure so that they can get what they need. 14:31:33 s/.me missed that/ 14:31:39 s/Can do it if you give me the meeting number and link/ 14:31:51 Anna Belle: redesign should establish our leadership in modern web community... 14:32:28 ... Model accessibility. Seen as an authority for a11y. 14:34:56 Susan has joined #eo 14:34:59 dboudreau has joined #eo 14:35:27 Eric: WAI site should have comprehensive overview of web accessibility. 14:36:00 ... right now it's very WCAG focused. Need to be broader - cover ATAG for example. 14:37:13 Dennis: should have comprehensive role-based information. 14:42:46 James: we should provide comprehensive role-based content for web a11y. 14:42:55 +1 14:43:52 Anna Belle: site should inspire visitors to implement web accessibility... 14:44:18 Shawn: site should be referenced in other expert's presentations. 14:47:34 [[hearing three aspects: presentation of content (eg. "engaging"), organization and findability of content (eg. "identify" and "role-based"), and more content (eg. "comprehensive")]] 14:50:46 organization and findability of content 14:51:05 Susan has joined #eo 14:51:06 Caleb has joined #eo 14:51:08 my microphone is dead 14:51:10 are you there Katie? 14:51:20 rganization and findability of content 14:51:30 yes I am 14:51:35 s/my microphone is dead 14:51:40 Caleb has joined #eo 14:51:41 s/rganization/o rganization 14:51:42 s/are you there Katie?/ 14:51:55 s/o rganization/organization 14:53:34 Jeff: have #1 go to place for web a11y as overall goal with 14:53:43 ... bullet points for sub-goal. 14:54:10 s/sub-goal/sub-goals 14:55:24 Dennis: should keep in mind that EO should do more outreach. 14:56:50 Susan has joined #eo 14:57:24 Anna Belle: how do you support folks who are already engaged & inspired? 14:57:48 Caleb_ has joined #eo 14:58:44 Create WAI.org as the first go-to place for web-a11y 14:59:15 Susan has joined #eo 14:59:48 s|WAI.org|w3.org/WAI/ 15:01:27 Anna Belle: Who are our 3 main audiences? 15:01:50 Susan: Important to consider roles also besides level of expertise. 15:02:26 q+ to ask about managers, policy makers, and advocates 15:02:40 Those who make the web.. 15:02:47 +1 to leaders 15:03:08 ack sh 15:03:08 shadi, you wanted to ask about managers, policy makers, and advocates 15:03:22 Caleb_ has joined #eo 15:03:22 James: may want to consider how they access the content. Developers don't look at content/resources ... 15:03:37 ... the same as other users. 15:04:06 governements and business should handle their own procurement requirements resources....it should be light for now on that topic 15:04:07 Shadi: distinction between developers and policy makers/administrators. 15:04:18 q+ Sharron 15:04:52 [[distinction between managers *in* accessibility and broader managers/policy makers/execs 15:05:33 Sharron: categories should be wide enough to encompass various groups: 15:05:45 ... technical/hands-on 15:05:49 ... leadership 15:05:57 ... advocates/users 15:06:06 ... decision makers 15:06:40 q+ 15:07:08 q+ yatil 15:07:54 ack d 15:08:31 q 15:08:34 q+ james 15:08:42 q- later 15:08:43 Susan has joined #eo 15:08:50 ack s 15:09:14 James: need to make personas for our audiences. 15:09:23 ack j 15:09:27 ... Limit to 5 or 6 and need to be modern. 15:09:50 ack me 15:10:46 q+ 15:10:55 Eric: Doers, planners, advocates 15:11:03 q+ James 15:11:25 ack j 15:11:31 ack dboudreau 15:13:10 q+ yatil 15:13:38 q+ to support policy as a sec audience 15:13:50 s/Dennis/Denis 15:14:23 q+ 15:14:29 Eric: policy makers not a primary audience. Can get info from our site ... 15:14:31 ack y 15:14:31 yatil, you wanted to support policy as a sec audience 15:14:43 ... but are secondary audience... 15:16:01 Shadi: which audience do we most want to address ... 15:16:20 ... because they make the web accessible. 15:16:55 q+ 15:17:35 Jeff: policy makers would be far down on the list. Not a primary place ... 15:17:51 q- 15:17:52 Caleb_ has joined #eo 15:17:53 ... a policy maker would go to. 15:18:32 Denis: remember that always come up that developers and designers come to the site ... 15:18:50 ... and immediately turn away because of it's design... 15:19:53 ack d 15:20:39 subtopic: Data / Measurement 15:21:05 Caleb: have to start off with capturing traffic... 15:21:39 ... and where do you fall with SERP rating. 15:22:05 ... Traffic: where it's coming from ... 15:22:27 Caleb: define specific funnels depending on types of information ... 15:22:39 Caleb has joined #eo 15:22:40 users are looking for/visiting. 15:22:50 (SERP = Search engine results page) 15:23:26 Susan has joined #eo 15:24:06 ... Organic search traffic vs. via links/referrals. 15:25:12 Caleb: Referrals are more important, more valuable for building traffic/reputation. 15:26:08 Caleb_ has joined #eo 15:26:18 q+ 15:26:36 User testing/ Usability testing 15:27:08 Susan: much more interested where they come from and how ... 15:27:15 ... long they stay on the site. 15:27:23 ack me 15:28:06 q+ 15:28:10 q- 15:28:24 q+ 15:28:28 Jeff: specific analytics on how many/who goes to different areas, resources. 15:28:41 James: What are the drop-off pages and why. 15:29:00 Eric: another way to measure is to see how well we are integrating ... 15:29:22 ... ATAG and other standards. 15:29:46 Susan has joined #eo 15:29:51 ack me 15:30:18 New motto: W3C WAI – We are the truth! 15:30:31 s/New motto: W3C WAI – We are the truth!/ 15:30:33 Caleb: should we be measuring the community by looking at ... 15:30:46 ... the top 50 sites in the world? 15:31:29 q+ to support broader measure of influence 15:31:45 James: Is our job to influence, to make the web more accessible? 15:33:04 Shawn: Should we measure our mentions in other places: blogs, twitter, etc.? 15:33:57 q- 15:34:04 ack dboudreau 15:35:15 Analytics should be a top priority for data/measurement. 15:38:04 Caleb: Should we specify what analytics we will try to capture - what areas of data. 15:38:26 q+ 15:38:35 q+ Howard 15:40:26 ack Susan 15:40:58 Susan: Put specific tool to the side for now? 15:41:21 ack Howard 15:43:07 tool: PIWIK 15:43:10 Shawn: need to specify what data we want from the tool. 15:43:56 http://piwik.org/ 15:44:29 http://piwik.org/ 15:44:47 PIWIK DEMO: http://demo.piwik.org/index.php?module=CoreHome&action=index&idSite=7&period=day&date=yesterday#?module=Dashboard&action=embeddedIndex&idSite=7&period=day&date=yesterday&idDashboard=1 15:44:52 http://demo.piwik.org 15:49:31 Caleb has joined #eo 15:57:54 Susan has joined #eo 16:00:47 Susan has joined #eo 16:02:50 subtopic: Information Architecture 16:03:47 rssagent, draft minutes 16:03:59 Anna Belle: What is information architecture? 16:04:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:04:09 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html yatil 16:04:18 s/rssagent, draft minutes/ 16:04:31 ... broader than just navigation. 16:04:34 q+ 16:04:53 s/preesent+ JeffKline/ 16:05:07 Denis: what about Interaction Design? The needs of different users. 16:05:10 s/Jeff Klein:/Jeff: 16:05:15 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:05:15 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html yatil 16:05:20 Caleb has joined #eo 16:06:03 s/my microphone is dead/ 16:06:50 s|s/my microphone is dead|| 16:06:53 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:06:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html yatil 16:07:28 Jeff: Do we need an information architect specialist? 16:07:55 James: he and Caleb have those skills and they have tools to ... 16:08:45 ... facilitate card sorting and other IA tools? 16:09:06 q 16:09:17 q+ Howard 16:09:35 s/q/ 16:09:47 q- Howard 16:09:55 James has joined #eo 16:10:03 ack me 16:10:32 q? 16:10:50 Caleb_ has joined #eo 16:11:12 Anna Belle: do we want to make having a search box a goal? 16:11:19 Susan has joined #eo 16:11:25 q+ 16:11:33 +1 for search 16:12:02 +1 for search 16:12:12 +1 for search 16:12:19 https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tutorials+site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2F 16:12:36 q+ Shawn 16:12:42 ack Susan 16:12:51 -q 16:13:03 q+ Jeff 16:13:05 q? 16:13:32 q+ 16:13:52 q- 16:13:53 +1 for search 16:13:59 +1 to search 16:14:12 ack shawn 16:14:14 ack je 16:14:19 q+ yatil 16:14:45 Jeff: do we need an Information Architect? 16:15:17 Susan has joined #eo 16:15:19 q+ 16:15:38 Shawn: we do have skills on the team for IA. 16:15:49 ack me 16:15:53 ack su 16:15:57 s/on the team for IA./on the EOWG for IA./ 16:16:14 Eric: should add goal of adding a IA to the team. 16:18:04 s/should add/might want to look into the possibility to add 16:18:28 https://www.w3.org/developers/ 16:18:31 q+ 16:18:32 Anna Belle: navigation, site map, ... 16:18:50 Denis: might want non-traditional navigation. 16:19:16 +1 yatil re: getting into too much detail 16:20:58 Caleb_ has joined #eo 16:21:12 Anna Belle: suggests having search, breadcrumbs ... 16:24:09 Shawn: really good search might be our highest priority 16:24:25 Shawn: Search may be our highest priority. 16:24:43 discovr - https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/discovr-discover-new-music/id412768094?mt=8 16:25:44 Shawn: "really good search" means doing things like tagging so Tutorials comes up first, etc. 16:25:48 Caleb: user testing and talking to users needs to drive IA. 16:27:16 subtopic: Visual Design 16:27:58 Anna Belle: step 1: getting clear on style of site. 16:28:22 ... distill down the style to 2 or 3 adjectives. 16:28:40 q? 16:29:30 Susan has joined #eo 16:30:36 ... Simplify - central goal. Focus on essential elements. 16:30:50 ... get rid of non-essentials. Mobile first. 16:34:05 ... probably don't get too many casual readers at this point. 16:34:07 Susan has joined #eo 16:38:39 q+ 16:38:43 -q 16:39:15 q- 16:42:07 Anna Belle: What adjectives do we want to describe our style & tone? 16:42:21 Shawn: authoritative, credible, inspiring. 16:42:34 Caleb: Clear. 16:42:41 Eric: Fun. 16:42:54 q+ 16:43:03 Shawn: welcoming. 16:43:55 Jeff: supportive. 16:44:25 Susan: knowledgeable, encouraging, modern. 16:44:32 Katie: engaging. 16:45:03 James: reliable. 16:45:12 Eric: trustworthy. 16:45:26 Susan: universal. 16:45:32 Eric: global. 16:46:03 James: efficient. 16:46:39 immersive 16:46:43 leading 16:48:37 Susan has joined #eo 16:50:22 http://i.imgur.com/zgWYG5B.jpg 16:50:40 Here are the possibilities for Shadi and Katie! 16:51:57 Susan has joined #eo 16:52:24 current 16:53:08 authoritative 16:58:17 engaging 7, reliable 6, clear 5 16:58:31 Susan has joined #eo 17:01:00 engaging, reliable/credible, clear 17:03:20 Caleb has joined #eo 17:03:26 engaging/empowering, reliable/credible, clear 17:03:30 Susan has joined #eo 17:04:52 engaging/empowering, reliable/credible, clear/practical 17:06:33 q+ 17:07:03 q+ about supporting a logo effort 17:07:19 q+ to support logo effort 17:08:29 q? 17:08:32 Caleb has joined #eo 17:08:36 ack dboudreau 17:08:36 dboudreau, you wanted to support logo effort 17:08:41 ack su 17:09:15 Ocupop created the HTML5 logo 17:09:30 Denis: supporting the idea of going through a logo design effort again, maybe contacting the same designer who created the HTML 5 and CSS 3 logos 17:09:31 http://ocupop.com 17:11:28 Background on the HTML5 logo creation: underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/html5_validates_with_new_logo.php 17:13:18 Shawn: Suggest we work on the organization of the "Getting Started with Web Accessibility" page 17:15:02 Re: logo: http://www.w3.org/blog/2011/01/an-html5-logo/ 17:47:54 Susan has joined #eo 18:08:07 Susan has joined #eo 18:27:41 Howard has joined #eo 18:27:51 scribe: Howard 18:28:15 Topic: Web Redesign Continued 18:29:04 subtopic: methodology 18:30:21 create personas fro our audiences 18:30:44 Anna Belle: baseline analytics 18:31:00 ... define deliverables 18:32:22 Susan has joined #eo 18:32:35 Eric: suggested methodologies/deliverables - Urgent technologies 18:32:56 - github base framework, issue management 18:36:37 Eric: longterm technology goals - 18:37:26 consolidation under PHP or some other standardized scripting/database language 18:38:15 Jeff: Might be helpful to right down a set of assumptions. 18:38:33 Caleb has joined #eo 18:40:06 ... as part of the methodology about the technologies we'll be using. 18:41:05 Sharron: we know we will use github, the wiki. 18:41:44 agenda+ (for shadi, brent, adina at least) - single image for videos 18:42:18 Eric: WAI site is completely separate from W3C as far as he knows. 18:43:03 Sharron: other assumptions - low budget, 18:43:10 ... volunteer labor. 18:44:02 ... usability testing? Where will funding come from? 18:44:45 Caleb has joined #eo 18:45:34 Howard: could do user testing at AHG, AccessU, other conferences. 18:45:47 Jeff: What about remote testing? 18:48:53 Brent: Likes the goals the group came up with. 18:49:41 Susan has joined #eo 18:50:05 Anna Belle: most concerned about analytics. Crucial to do this before we start the redesign. 18:52:47 Caleb_ has joined #eo 18:54:25 James: tasks for the redesign - Personas, architecture, analytics/ user testing, IA, Visual 18:54:39 subtopic: task - Personas 18:55:10 - looking at the existing personas & our audience. Updating them as needed. 18:55:23 - (something someone can take on) 18:56:48 Susan has joined #eo 18:57:29 dboudreau has joined #eo 18:57:58 Susan has joined #eo 18:58:38 ... (see photo of time chart created by James) 19:00:01 Deadlines - Personas (May), 19:00:17 ... Analytics (June) 19:00:39 ... User Testing (July) 19:05:33 Shawn: need to note that policy content is a priority - risk of being overdue. 19:06:06 s/need to note that policy content is a priority - risk of being overdue./need to note that policy content is a priority - it's already overdue 19:06:13 James, etc.: we're dedicate 2 months to catching up on content that is behind then start the tasks for the redesign. 19:06:59 s/'re/'ll 19:07:49 Caleb_ has joined #eo 19:08:43 Shawn: can reuse URLs. Just can't have 404s. 19:08:46 can 19:09:05 s/can/can do redirects. 19:09:27 Caleb: should do an inventory/map of all URLs used on the site. 19:11:04 Shawn: her or Eric will put the script required for Analytics for each of the 75 eo pages. 19:11:52 piwik.org/docs/installation 19:12:12 Simple JS snippet to include on every page 19:13:05 James: can do a second round of analytics in July for customized data collection. 19:16:25 Shawn: overdue resource docs: policies (Wayne), Easy Checks, Tutorials. 19:17:43 ... Easy Checks, Tutorials, simply need to be completed. 19:18:14 Caleb has joined #eo 19:19:02 Shawn: if the working group decides to change the priorities of docs required for charter, we can take a vote, 19:19:17 ... in order to focus first on redesign. 19:20:19 s/we can take a vote,/we can come to consensus and record a decision on that 19:23:36 Caleb: can get volunteer designers to work on logo, on mood boards/colors/ideation. 19:23:52 Caleb_ has joined #eo 19:24:59 ... deadline of July - preliminary exploration of visual redesign. 19:29:03 Sharron has joined #eo 19:29:50 Susan has joined #eo 19:30:23 Shawn: should check on data from recent WCAG survey on how to use WAI tools 19:32:39 s/should check on data from recent WCAG survey on how to use WAI tools/should check on data from recent WCAG survey to see if any useful info 19:33:24 Caleb_ has joined #eo 19:34:39 James: task analysis for IA, mapping, testing - ~ July - November. 19:34:43 Susan has joined #eo 19:36:26 James: Technical Architecture - 19:37:24 Caleb: Linux server currently 19:37:44 Caleb_ has joined #eo 19:38:07 Caleb: have Eric provide his vision of what technical resources we need. 19:41:42 Caleb_ has joined #eo 19:41:56 Susan has joined #eo 19:47:28 Denis - will task analysis, mapping, testing for IA (timeline: July - Oct/Nov,) 19:48:11 Susan has joined #eo 19:50:03 https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=f344b921d7&view=att&th=154a68451c79ab2c&attid=0.1&disp=safe&zw 20:01:36 Susan has joined #eo 20:05:06 Brent has joined #eo 20:07:37 subtopic: Personas 20:09:32 Topic: Meta description for EOWG pages 20:11:03 Proposal: is it okay for Caleb & Eric to put code into just the Perspectives pages so that it can be .... 20:11:12 ... tracked within social media. 20:11:22 +1 to proposal 20:11:24 Caleb has joined #eo 20:11:56 s/is it okay for Caleb & Eric to put code into just the Perspectives pages so that it can be/ 20:12:04 s/tracked within social media./ 20:12:47 Proposal: OK to add meta data (such as description) to the perspectives pages to provide text & images for social media, etc? 20:14:19 it's not muted 20:17:08 Group voted to create new personas. 20:21:02 +1 20:21:04 +1 20:21:07 +1 for meta data 20:21:07 +1 20:21:10 +1 20:21:13 +1 from Eric 20:21:13 +1 to metadata 20:21:17 +1 20:21:22 +1 metadata 20:21:23 +1 from Eric for metadata 20:22:13 Resolution: OK for Eric & Caleb to add meta data (such as description) to the perspectives pages to provide text & images for social media, etc. 20:22:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 20:22:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html shawn