IRC log of eo on 2016-05-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-irc
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RRSAgent, make logs world
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Zakim, this will be 3694
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ok, trackbot
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Meeting: Education and Outreach Working Group Teleconference
14:03:56 [trackbot]
Date: 12 May 2016
14:08:59 [Ryladog]
Present+ Katie Haritos-Shea
14:09:24 [Ryladog]
OK
14:09:48 [yatil]
present+ EricE
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present+ Howard
14:10:52 [Howard]
scribe:Howard
14:11:34 [shawn]
present+ shawn
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14:12:35 [Howard]
Topic: Website Redesign
14:13:59 [Susan]
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14:15:50 [shawn]
.me missed that
14:16:02 [yatil]
Can do it if you give me the meeting number and link
14:18:33 [Howard]
Jeff Klein: policy driven adoption...
14:19:15 [shawn]
preesent+ JeffKline
14:19:16 [Howard]
... rather than having just technical rules, there should be governance procedures.
14:19:24 [shawn]
present+ JeffKline
14:20:12 [Howard]
... 6 point framework. Focused into the vendor space. Questionnaire is part of the PDA.
14:22:12 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:22:12 [Zakim]
Present: Katie, Haritos-Shea, EricE, Howard, shawn, JeffKline
14:22:45 [shawn]
present+ Susan, Sharron, James, Denis
14:22:49 [shawn]
zakim, who is on the phone?
14:22:49 [Zakim]
Present: Katie, Haritos-Shea, EricE, Howard, shawn, JeffKline, Susan, Sharron, James, Denis
14:22:57 [Howard]
Anna Belle: 6 basic steps of redesign.
14:23:13 [shawn]
present+ Shadi(phone)
14:26:06 [Howard]
Sharron: all our goals need to be measurable.
14:26:41 [Howard]
Anna Belle: want to get to one primary goal and then secondary ones.
14:27:57 [Howard]
Susan: goal to update the site to make it more clear and engaging to users.
14:28:17 [Howard]
... Plain language, tone.
14:28:38 [Howard]
Dennis: anyone can come to site and can identify the things that are relevant to them.
14:29:01 [Howard]
... Don't have to search through everything to find what is relevant.
14:29:24 [Howard]
Susan: want site to be number 1 place to go to for web accessibility.
14:29:42 [Howard]
James: increase traffic and reduce drop off.
14:30:00 [Howard]
... increase satisfaction.
14:30:12 [Howard]
... Improve credibility.
14:30:34 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
14:30:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html yatil
14:30:36 [Howard]
Jeff: Would like to see multiple entry modes to increase exposure to success criteria,
14:31:08 [Howard]
... intermediate and advanced. Structure so that they can get what they need.
14:31:33 [yatil]
s/.me missed that/
14:31:39 [yatil]
s/Can do it if you give me the meeting number and link/
14:31:51 [Howard]
Anna Belle: redesign should establish our leadership in modern web community...
14:32:28 [Howard]
... Model accessibility. Seen as an authority for a11y.
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14:35:27 [Howard]
Eric: WAI site should have comprehensive overview of web accessibility.
14:36:00 [Howard]
... right now it's very WCAG focused. Need to be broader - cover ATAG for example.
14:37:13 [Howard]
Dennis: should have comprehensive role-based information.
14:42:46 [Howard]
James: we should provide comprehensive role-based content for web a11y.
14:42:55 [shadi]
+1
14:43:52 [Howard]
Anna Belle: site should inspire visitors to implement web accessibility...
14:44:18 [Howard]
Shawn: site should be referenced in other expert's presentations.
14:47:34 [shadi]
[[hearing three aspects: presentation of content (eg. "engaging"), organization and findability of content (eg. "identify" and "role-based"), and more content (eg. "comprehensive")]]
14:50:46 [Ryladog]
organization and findability of content
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14:51:06 [Caleb]
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14:51:08 [Ryladog]
my microphone is dead
14:51:10 [Susan]
are you there Katie?
14:51:20 [Ryladog]
rganization and findability of content
14:51:30 [Ryladog]
yes I am
14:51:35 [shawn]
s/my microphone is dead
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14:51:41 [yatil]
s/rganization/o rganization
14:51:42 [shawn]
s/are you there Katie?/
14:51:55 [yatil]
s/o rganization/organization
14:53:34 [Howard]
Jeff: have #1 go to place for web a11y as overall goal with
14:53:43 [Howard]
... bullet points for sub-goal.
14:54:10 [Howard]
s/sub-goal/sub-goals
14:55:24 [Howard]
Dennis: should keep in mind that EO should do more outreach.
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14:57:24 [Howard]
Anna Belle: how do you support folks who are already engaged & inspired?
14:57:48 [Caleb_]
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Create WAI.org as the first go-to place for web-a11y
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s|WAI.org|w3.org/WAI/
15:01:27 [Howard]
Anna Belle: Who are our 3 main audiences?
15:01:50 [Howard]
Susan: Important to consider roles also besides level of expertise.
15:02:26 [shadi]
q+ to ask about managers, policy makers, and advocates
15:02:40 [Ryladog]
Those who make the web..
15:02:47 [shadi]
+1 to leaders
15:03:08 [yatil]
ack sh
15:03:08 [Zakim]
shadi, you wanted to ask about managers, policy makers, and advocates
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15:03:22 [Howard]
James: may want to consider how they access the content. Developers don't look at content/resources ...
15:03:37 [Howard]
... the same as other users.
15:04:06 [Ryladog]
governements and business should handle their own procurement requirements resources....it should be light for now on that topic
15:04:07 [Howard]
Shadi: distinction between developers and policy makers/administrators.
15:04:18 [Howard]
q+ Sharron
15:04:52 [shadi]
[[distinction between managers *in* accessibility and broader managers/policy makers/execs
15:05:33 [Howard]
Sharron: categories should be wide enough to encompass various groups:
15:05:45 [Howard]
... technical/hands-on
15:05:49 [Howard]
... leadership
15:05:57 [Howard]
... advocates/users
15:06:06 [Howard]
... decision makers
15:06:40 [dboudreau]
q+
15:07:08 [yatil]
q+ yatil
15:07:54 [yatil]
ack d
15:08:31 [yatil]
q
15:08:34 [yatil]
q+ james
15:08:42 [yatil]
q- later
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ack s
15:09:14 [Howard]
James: need to make personas for our audiences.
15:09:23 [yatil]
ack j
15:09:27 [Howard]
... Limit to 5 or 6 and need to be modern.
15:09:50 [yatil]
ack me
15:10:46 [dboudreau]
q+
15:10:55 [Howard]
Eric: Doers, planners, advocates
15:11:03 [yatil]
q+ James
15:11:25 [yatil]
ack j
15:11:31 [yatil]
ack dboudreau
15:13:10 [yatil]
q+ yatil
15:13:38 [yatil]
q+ to support policy as a sec audience
15:13:50 [Howard]
s/Dennis/Denis
15:14:23 [shadi]
q+
15:14:29 [Howard]
Eric: policy makers not a primary audience. Can get info from our site ...
15:14:31 [yatil]
ack y
15:14:31 [Zakim]
yatil, you wanted to support policy as a sec audience
15:14:43 [Howard]
... but are secondary audience...
15:16:01 [Howard]
Shadi: which audience do we most want to address ...
15:16:20 [Howard]
... because they make the web accessible.
15:16:55 [dboudreau]
q+
15:17:35 [Howard]
Jeff: policy makers would be far down on the list. Not a primary place ...
15:17:51 [shadi]
q-
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15:17:53 [Howard]
... a policy maker would go to.
15:18:32 [Howard]
Denis: remember that always come up that developers and designers come to the site ...
15:18:50 [Howard]
... and immediately turn away because of it's design...
15:19:53 [yatil]
ack d
15:20:39 [Howard]
subtopic: Data / Measurement
15:21:05 [Howard]
Caleb: have to start off with capturing traffic...
15:21:39 [Howard]
... and where do you fall with SERP rating.
15:22:05 [Howard]
... Traffic: where it's coming from ...
15:22:27 [Howard]
Caleb: define specific funnels depending on types of information ...
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users are looking for/visiting.
15:22:50 [dboudreau]
(SERP = Search engine results page)
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15:24:06 [Howard]
... Organic search traffic vs. via links/referrals.
15:25:12 [Howard]
Caleb: Referrals are more important, more valuable for building traffic/reputation.
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15:26:18 [yatil]
q+
15:26:36 [Howard]
User testing/ Usability testing
15:27:08 [Howard]
Susan: much more interested where they come from and how ...
15:27:15 [Howard]
... long they stay on the site.
15:27:23 [yatil]
ack me
15:28:06 [yatil]
q+
15:28:10 [yatil]
q-
15:28:24 [yatil]
q+
15:28:28 [Howard]
Jeff: specific analytics on how many/who goes to different areas, resources.
15:28:41 [Howard]
James: What are the drop-off pages and why.
15:29:00 [Howard]
Eric: another way to measure is to see how well we are integrating ...
15:29:22 [Howard]
... ATAG and other standards.
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15:29:51 [yatil]
ack me
15:30:18 [yatil]
New motto: W3C WAI – We are the truth!
15:30:31 [yatil]
s/New motto: W3C WAI – We are the truth!/
15:30:33 [Howard]
Caleb: should we be measuring the community by looking at ...
15:30:46 [Howard]
... the top 50 sites in the world?
15:31:29 [dboudreau]
q+ to support broader measure of influence
15:31:45 [Howard]
James: Is our job to influence, to make the web more accessible?
15:33:04 [Howard]
Shawn: Should we measure our mentions in other places: blogs, twitter, etc.?
15:33:57 [dboudreau]
q-
15:34:04 [Howard]
ack dboudreau
15:35:15 [Howard]
Analytics should be a top priority for data/measurement.
15:38:04 [Howard]
Caleb: Should we specify what analytics we will try to capture - what areas of data.
15:38:26 [Susan]
q+
15:38:35 [Howard]
q+ Howard
15:40:26 [yatil]
ack Susan
15:40:58 [Howard]
Susan: Put specific tool to the side for now?
15:41:21 [yatil]
ack Howard
15:43:07 [shawn]
tool: PIWIK
15:43:10 [Howard]
Shawn: need to specify what data we want from the tool.
15:43:56 [dboudreau]
http://piwik.org/
15:44:29 [dboudreau]
http://piwik.org/
15:44:47 [dboudreau]
PIWIK DEMO: http://demo.piwik.org/index.php?module=CoreHome&action=index&idSite=7&period=day&date=yesterday#?module=Dashboard&action=embeddedIndex&idSite=7&period=day&date=yesterday&idDashboard=1
15:44:52 [Caleb]
http://demo.piwik.org
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16:02:50 [Howard]
subtopic: Information Architecture
16:03:47 [yatil]
rssagent, draft minutes
16:03:59 [Howard]
Anna Belle: What is information architecture?
16:04:09 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:09 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html yatil
16:04:18 [yatil]
s/rssagent, draft minutes/
16:04:31 [Howard]
... broader than just navigation.
16:04:34 [dboudreau]
q+
16:04:53 [yatil]
s/preesent+ JeffKline/
16:05:07 [Howard]
Denis: what about Interaction Design? The needs of different users.
16:05:10 [yatil]
s/Jeff Klein:/Jeff:
16:05:15 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:15 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html yatil
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s/my microphone is dead/
16:06:50 [yatil]
s|s/my microphone is dead||
16:06:53 [yatil]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:06:53 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html yatil
16:07:28 [Howard]
Jeff: Do we need an information architect specialist?
16:07:55 [Howard]
James: he and Caleb have those skills and they have tools to ...
16:08:45 [Howard]
... facilitate card sorting and other IA tools?
16:09:06 [Howard]
q
16:09:17 [yatil]
q+ Howard
16:09:35 [Howard]
s/q/
16:09:47 [Howard]
q- Howard
16:09:55 [James]
James has joined #eo
16:10:03 [dboudreau]
ack me
16:10:32 [shawn]
q?
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16:11:12 [Howard]
Anna Belle: do we want to make having a search box a goal?
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16:11:25 [Susan]
q+
16:11:33 [Caleb]
+1 for search
16:12:02 [dboudreau]
+1 for search
16:12:12 [Susan]
+1 for search
16:12:19 [yatil]
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=Tutorials+site%3Ahttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2FWAI%2F
16:12:36 [yatil]
q+ Shawn
16:12:42 [yatil]
ack Susan
16:12:51 [Susan]
-q
16:13:03 [yatil]
q+ Jeff
16:13:05 [Howard]
q?
16:13:32 [dboudreau]
q+
16:13:52 [dboudreau]
q-
16:13:53 [yatil]
+1 for search
16:13:59 [Howard]
+1 to search
16:14:12 [yatil]
ack shawn
16:14:14 [yatil]
ack je
16:14:19 [yatil]
q+ yatil
16:14:45 [Howard]
Jeff: do we need an Information Architect?
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16:15:19 [Susan]
q+
16:15:38 [Howard]
Shawn: we do have skills on the team for IA.
16:15:49 [yatil]
ack me
16:15:53 [yatil]
ack su
16:15:57 [shawn]
s/on the team for IA./on the EOWG for IA./
16:16:14 [Howard]
Eric: should add goal of adding a IA to the team.
16:18:04 [yatil]
s/should add/might want to look into the possibility to add
16:18:28 [Susan]
https://www.w3.org/developers/
16:18:31 [yatil]
q+
16:18:32 [Howard]
Anna Belle: navigation, site map, ...
16:18:50 [Howard]
Denis: might want non-traditional navigation.
16:19:16 [Susan]
+1 yatil re: getting into too much detail
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16:21:12 [Howard]
Anna Belle: suggests having search, breadcrumbs ...
16:24:09 [shawn]
Shawn: really good search might be our highest priority
16:24:25 [Howard]
Shawn: Search may be our highest priority.
16:24:43 [dboudreau]
discovr - https://itunes.apple.com/us/app/discovr-discover-new-music/id412768094?mt=8
16:25:44 [shawn]
Shawn: "really good search" means doing things like tagging so Tutorials comes up first, etc.
16:25:48 [Howard]
Caleb: user testing and talking to users needs to drive IA.
16:27:16 [Howard]
subtopic: Visual Design
16:27:58 [Howard]
Anna Belle: step 1: getting clear on style of site.
16:28:22 [Howard]
... distill down the style to 2 or 3 adjectives.
16:28:40 [Howard]
q?
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16:30:36 [Howard]
... Simplify - central goal. Focus on essential elements.
16:30:50 [Howard]
... get rid of non-essentials. Mobile first.
16:34:05 [Howard]
... probably don't get too many casual readers at this point.
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16:38:39 [Susan]
q+
16:38:43 [Susan]
-q
16:39:15 [yatil]
q-
16:42:07 [Howard]
Anna Belle: What adjectives do we want to describe our style & tone?
16:42:21 [Howard]
Shawn: authoritative, credible, inspiring.
16:42:34 [Howard]
Caleb: Clear.
16:42:41 [Howard]
Eric: Fun.
16:42:54 [Susan]
q+
16:43:03 [Howard]
Shawn: welcoming.
16:43:55 [Howard]
Jeff: supportive.
16:44:25 [Howard]
Susan: knowledgeable, encouraging, modern.
16:44:32 [Howard]
Katie: engaging.
16:45:03 [Howard]
James: reliable.
16:45:12 [Howard]
Eric: trustworthy.
16:45:26 [Howard]
Susan: universal.
16:45:32 [Howard]
Eric: global.
16:46:03 [Howard]
James: efficient.
16:46:39 [Howard]
immersive
16:46:43 [Howard]
leading
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16:50:22 [yatil]
http://i.imgur.com/zgWYG5B.jpg
16:50:40 [yatil]
Here are the possibilities for Shadi and Katie!
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16:52:24 [Howard]
current
16:53:08 [Howard]
authoritative
16:58:17 [Howard]
engaging 7, reliable 6, clear 5
16:58:31 [Susan]
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17:01:00 [Howard]
engaging, reliable/credible, clear
17:03:20 [Caleb]
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17:03:26 [Howard]
engaging/empowering, reliable/credible, clear
17:03:30 [Susan]
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17:04:52 [Howard]
engaging/empowering, reliable/credible, clear/practical
17:06:33 [Susan]
q+
17:07:03 [dboudreau]
q+ about supporting a logo effort
17:07:19 [dboudreau]
q+ to support logo effort
17:08:29 [Howard]
q?
17:08:32 [Caleb]
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17:08:36 [yatil]
ack dboudreau
17:08:36 [Zakim]
dboudreau, you wanted to support logo effort
17:08:41 [yatil]
ack su
17:09:15 [Caleb]
Ocupop created the HTML5 logo
17:09:30 [dboudreau]
Denis: supporting the idea of going through a logo design effort again, maybe contacting the same designer who created the HTML 5 and CSS 3 logos
17:09:31 [Caleb]
http://ocupop.com
17:11:28 [Caleb]
Background on the HTML5 logo creation: underconsideration.com/brandnew/archives/html5_validates_with_new_logo.php
17:13:18 [Howard]
Shawn: Suggest we work on the organization of the "Getting Started with Web Accessibility" page
17:15:02 [James]
Re: logo: http://www.w3.org/blog/2011/01/an-html5-logo/
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18:27:51 [Howard]
scribe: Howard
18:28:15 [Howard]
Topic: Web Redesign Continued
18:29:04 [Howard]
subtopic: methodology
18:30:21 [Howard]
create personas fro our audiences
18:30:44 [Howard]
Anna Belle: baseline analytics
18:31:00 [Howard]
... define deliverables
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18:32:35 [Howard]
Eric: suggested methodologies/deliverables - Urgent technologies
18:32:56 [Howard]
- github base framework, issue management
18:36:37 [Howard]
Eric: longterm technology goals -
18:37:26 [Howard]
consolidation under PHP or some other standardized scripting/database language
18:38:15 [Howard]
Jeff: Might be helpful to right down a set of assumptions.
18:38:33 [Caleb]
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18:40:06 [Howard]
... as part of the methodology about the technologies we'll be using.
18:41:05 [Howard]
Sharron: we know we will use github, the wiki.
18:41:44 [shawn]
agenda+ (for shadi, brent, adina at least) - single image for videos
18:42:18 [Howard]
Eric: WAI site is completely separate from W3C as far as he knows.
18:43:03 [Howard]
Sharron: other assumptions - low budget,
18:43:10 [Howard]
... volunteer labor.
18:44:02 [Howard]
... usability testing? Where will funding come from?
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18:45:34 [Howard]
Howard: could do user testing at AHG, AccessU, other conferences.
18:45:47 [Howard]
Jeff: What about remote testing?
18:48:53 [Howard]
Brent: Likes the goals the group came up with.
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18:50:05 [Howard]
Anna Belle: most concerned about analytics. Crucial to do this before we start the redesign.
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18:54:25 [Howard]
James: tasks for the redesign - Personas, architecture, analytics/ user testing, IA, Visual
18:54:39 [Howard]
subtopic: task - Personas
18:55:10 [Howard]
- looking at the existing personas & our audience. Updating them as needed.
18:55:23 [Howard]
- (something someone can take on)
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18:57:29 [dboudreau]
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18:58:38 [Howard]
... (see photo of time chart created by James)
19:00:01 [Howard]
Deadlines - Personas (May),
19:00:17 [Howard]
... Analytics (June)
19:00:39 [Howard]
... User Testing (July)
19:05:33 [Howard]
Shawn: need to note that policy content is a priority - risk of being overdue.
19:06:06 [shawn]
s/need to note that policy content is a priority - risk of being overdue./need to note that policy content is a priority - it's already overdue
19:06:13 [Howard]
James, etc.: we're dedicate 2 months to catching up on content that is behind then start the tasks for the redesign.
19:06:59 [Howard]
s/'re/'ll
19:07:49 [Caleb_]
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19:08:43 [Howard]
Shawn: can reuse URLs. Just can't have 404s.
19:08:46 [Howard]
can
19:09:05 [Howard]
s/can/can do redirects.
19:09:27 [Howard]
Caleb: should do an inventory/map of all URLs used on the site.
19:11:04 [Howard]
Shawn: her or Eric will put the script required for Analytics for each of the 75 eo pages.
19:11:52 [Caleb]
piwik.org/docs/installation
19:12:12 [Caleb]
Simple JS snippet to include on every page
19:13:05 [Howard]
James: can do a second round of analytics in July for customized data collection.
19:16:25 [Howard]
Shawn: overdue resource docs: policies (Wayne), Easy Checks, Tutorials.
19:17:43 [Howard]
... Easy Checks, Tutorials, simply need to be completed.
19:18:14 [Caleb]
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19:19:02 [Howard]
Shawn: if the working group decides to change the priorities of docs required for charter, we can take a vote,
19:19:17 [Howard]
... in order to focus first on redesign.
19:20:19 [shawn]
s/we can take a vote,/we can come to consensus and record a decision on that
19:23:36 [Howard]
Caleb: can get volunteer designers to work on logo, on mood boards/colors/ideation.
19:23:52 [Caleb_]
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19:24:59 [Howard]
... deadline of July - preliminary exploration of visual redesign.
19:29:03 [Sharron]
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19:30:23 [Howard]
Shawn: should check on data from recent WCAG survey on how to use WAI tools
19:32:39 [shawn]
s/should check on data from recent WCAG survey on how to use WAI tools/should check on data from recent WCAG survey to see if any useful info
19:33:24 [Caleb_]
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19:34:39 [Howard]
James: task analysis for IA, mapping, testing - ~ July - November.
19:34:43 [Susan]
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19:36:26 [Howard]
James: Technical Architecture -
19:37:24 [Howard]
Caleb: Linux server currently
19:37:44 [Caleb_]
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19:38:07 [Howard]
Caleb: have Eric provide his vision of what technical resources we need.
19:41:42 [Caleb_]
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19:41:56 [Susan]
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19:47:28 [Howard]
Denis - will task analysis, mapping, testing for IA (timeline: July - Oct/Nov,)
19:48:11 [Susan]
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19:50:03 [Susan]
https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=f344b921d7&view=att&th=154a68451c79ab2c&attid=0.1&disp=safe&zw
20:01:36 [Susan]
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20:07:37 [Howard]
subtopic: Personas
20:09:32 [Howard]
Topic: Meta description for EOWG pages
20:11:03 [Howard]
Proposal: is it okay for Caleb & Eric to put code into just the Perspectives pages so that it can be ....
20:11:12 [Howard]
... tracked within social media.
20:11:22 [shadi]
+1 to proposal
20:11:24 [Caleb]
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20:11:56 [shawn]
s/is it okay for Caleb & Eric to put code into just the Perspectives pages so that it can be/
20:12:04 [shawn]
s/tracked within social media./
20:12:47 [shawn]
Proposal: OK to add meta data (such as description) to the perspectives pages to provide text & images for social media, etc?
20:14:19 [Susan]
it's not muted
20:17:08 [Howard]
Group voted to create new personas.
20:21:02 [Susan]
+1
20:21:04 [shawn]
+1
20:21:07 [Susan]
+1 for meta data
20:21:07 [shadi]
+1
20:21:10 [dboudreau]
+1
20:21:13 [shawn]
+1 from Eric
20:21:13 [Howard]
+1 to metadata
20:21:17 [Caleb]
+1
20:21:22 [Sharron]
+1 metadata
20:21:23 [Howard]
+1 from Eric for metadata
20:22:13 [Howard]
Resolution: OK for Eric & Caleb to add meta data (such as description) to the perspectives pages to provide text & images for social media, etc.
20:22:23 [shawn]
rrsagent, draft minutes
20:22:23 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/12-eo-minutes.html shawn