IRC log of webperf on 2016-05-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:01:23 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
17:01:25 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
17:01:25 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be web-per
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ok, trackbot
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Meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference
17:01:28 [trackbot]
Date: 04 May 2016
17:01:31 [plh]
present+ Yoav
17:01:34 [plh]
present+ Ilya
17:01:43 [plh]
present+ Plh
17:02:45 [toddreifsteck]
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17:03:22 [plh]
present+ Todd
17:04:45 [igrigorik]
first up, charter updates
17:04:55 [plh]
* keep Preload, Resource Hints, and rIC as part of the webperf group
17:04:55 [plh]
* move Server Timing, Frame Timing, and Reporting + NEL to WICG
17:06:13 [plh]
--> draft charter
17:07:01 [plh]
Ilya: we have some implementations for the first set, and none for the second, thus the proposal
17:07:10 [plh]
Yoav: makes sense to me
17:07:25 [plh]
... Frame Timing is a bit more advance
17:08:03 [plh]
Ilya: yes and no, but we keep changing subtantially and no update on the implementation side. could be convinced either way
17:08:26 [plh]
Todd: we should ensure that we publish current work as Notes before we drop from the charter
17:09:18 [plh]
... we could also allow folks from the WICG to contribute
17:09:30 [wesleyhales]
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17:09:41 [plh]
Present+ Wesley
17:10:15 [plh]
Yoav: only thing is that the work on server timing wouldn't move forward
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17:11:27 [plh]
Ilya: so, transfer ownership of the repo of WICG and publish as Notes, and then readopt them in the future if needed
17:11:35 [yoav]
17:12:03 [plh]
plh: ok, so server timing, reporting, NEL. what about frame timing?
17:12:21 [plh]
todd: don't foresee us implementing unless there is incredible adoption
17:12:42 [plh]
ilya: ok, then I think we'll keep working on the use cases and current design isn't the best
17:12:57 [plh]
... so it's reasonable to move to WICG
17:13:18 [plh]
ACTION: plh to publish Frame Timing, Server Timing, Reporting, NEL
17:13:18 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-169 - Publish frame timing, server timing, reporting, nel [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2016-05-11].
17:13:23 [plh]
(as Notes)
17:14:54 [igrigorik]
17:15:06 [plh]
Ilya: we added some estimates as well
17:17:29 [igrigorik]
next up: Resource Timing L1
17:18:26 [plh]
1. Make sure we looked at
17:18:26 [plh]
17:18:26 [plh]
and have answers in the spec for all of the relevant questions.
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2. Get a review or an ack from webappsec
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3. Transition to CR
17:18:49 [plh]
17:19:27 [plh]
ACTION: plh to make the draft is up-to-date
17:19:27 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-170 - Make the draft is up-to-date [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2016-05-11].
17:20:15 [igrigorik]
L1 comments:
17:21:36 [toddreifsteck]
17:22:39 [plh]
17:22:46 [igrigorik]
deep link:
17:25:52 [plh]
plh will keep cranking the wheel on that one
17:26:15 [plh]
Yoav: I'd like to use resource timing to test the preload implementation
17:26:56 [plh]
... implementation is flaky at the moment
17:27:30 [plh]
... if I get to a stable implementation, I might try to have it ship in webkit
17:28:42 [plh]
Ilya: for L2, the issues around resources that don't return responses, I summarized the status on the chrome bug and started a thread with security and privacy team at Google
17:29:17 [plh]
Topic: "local" vs "remote" performance API's
17:29:24 [plh]
Ilya: got some good feedback
17:29:30 [plh]
... should we publish as a Note
17:29:56 [plh]
Todd: we should
17:30:11 [plh]
... only downside is that we'll get feedback :)
17:30:27 [plh]
Ilya: we're having those discussions anyway
17:30:57 [plh]
Resolved: let's publish as a Note
17:32:10 [plh]
ACTIOn: plh to create a repo for best practices document
17:32:10 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-171 - Create a repo for best practices document [on Philippe Le Hégaret - due 2016-05-11].
17:32:18 [plh]
Ilya: I'll transform into respec
17:33:56 [plh]
Topic: PV 2
17:34:23 [plh]
Ilya: having a change section would be good
17:37:38 [plh]
plh: I'll make a PR for that
17:37:43 [plh]
... and keep into iterating on the tests
17:38:12 [igrigorik]
riC test:
17:38:25 [plh]
Topic: rIC
17:38:45 [plh]
Ilya: we may have to add some additional tests
17:38:55 [plh]
plh: i'll add that to my TODO list
17:39:20 [plh]
Ilya: I need to add a privacy section
17:39:33 [plh]
... we kind of have one but need to pull it out
17:39:52 [plh]
Todd: I touched based with Justin on that front
17:40:12 [plh]
... one concern is that Chrome pipeline becoming the pipeline for developers
17:40:28 [plh]
... the spec is overly specific sometimes. I need to check on that.
17:40:45 [plh]
Ilya: concept of idle time is user agent defiend
17:41:04 [plh]
Todd: main problem comes from layout
17:41:12 [plh]
... so ordering of events and when layout happens
17:41:30 [plh]
... trick is that guidance shouldn't be to a specific engine
17:41:39 [plh]
... so I need to figure this out
17:42:00 [plh]
... will look over it next week or two
17:43:26 [plh]
next step: update security/privacy, wait for Todd within 2 weeks
17:43:37 [plh]
... then wide review from security/privacy
17:43:40 [plh]
... then CR
17:44:45 [plh]
Topic: Resource Hints
17:44:54 [igrigorik]
html updates:
17:45:00 [plh]
Yoav: Domenic is doing some cleanups related to HTML
17:45:12 [plh]
... and adding the link relations to HTML itself
17:45:29 [plh]
... and ask if the relations apply only to link or also a and area
17:45:47 [plh]
Yoav: I see a weak use cases for a and area
17:46:27 [plh]
... I don't think they're implemented anywhere else, except for prefetch
17:46:48 [plh]
Ilya: context is that prefetch was supported for a and area and domenic was asking for others
17:47:16 [plh]
... I don't see a huge value so I'm ok to remove those
17:47:36 [plh]
... but not even sure on prefetch for a and area
17:47:45 [plh]
Yoav: ok, so next step is testing to see who supports what
17:47:58 [plh]
Todd: don't know for Edge
17:48:12 [plh]
Ilya: we can write a quick test and see what happens
17:48:43 [plh]
... I found that prerender has some issues in Edge for example
17:48:54 [plh]
... in all scenarios
17:49:25 [plh]
... it's tricky to get some tests since we get no clear signals
17:49:43 [plh]
... looking at TCP dumps to verify that it's working
17:50:39 [plh]
Todd: e.g. dns-prefetch
17:51:28 [plh]
plh: would be good to send feedback to WebDriver folks
17:53:18 [plh]
Topic: nav timing
17:53:45 [plh]
Ilya: L1 defines its own time origin because we didn't have the current def
17:53:54 [plh]
... we're duplicating for historical reasons
17:55:47 [plh]
17:56:29 [plh]
plh: maybe change the styling of that section?
18:00:49 [plh]
Ilya: or remove it and link to L1
18:00:55 [igrigorik]
sorry guys, need to drop off, dialing back in..
18:03:03 [plh]
"All time values defined in this appendix are measured in milliseconds since midnight of January 1, 1970 (UTC)."
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