IRC log of sdwcov on 2016-05-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:00:38 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
13:00:40 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs world
13:00:40 [Zakim]
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Zakim, this will be SDW
13:00:42 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot
13:00:43 [trackbot]
Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference
13:00:43 [trackbot]
Date: 04 May 2016
13:00:50 [phila]
zakim, code?
13:00:50 [Zakim]
I have been told this is SDW
13:01:49 [billroberts]
Thanks phila
13:01:51 [ScottSimmons]
present+ ScottSimmons
13:02:01 [billroberts]
present+ billroberts
13:02:02 [Maik]
present+ Maik
13:02:11 [billroberts]
regrets+ jonblower
13:02:16 [billroberts]
regrets+ eparsons
13:02:32 [Duo]
present+ Duo
13:02:42 [phila]
zakim, this is 642 889 345, pw is sdw
13:02:42 [Zakim]
got it, phila
13:02:51 [phila]
zakim, save this description
13:02:51 [Zakim]
this conference description has been saved, phila
13:02:55 [phila]
zakim, code?
13:02:55 [Zakim]
I have been told this is 642 889 345, pw is sdw
13:04:48 [sam]
sam has joined #sdwcov
13:05:22 [Kerry__]
Kerry__ has joined #sdwcov
13:06:22 [Kerry__]
scribe: kerry
13:06:32 [Kerry__]
chair: billroberts
13:06:34 [billroberts]
13:06:42 [Kerry__]
scribenick: kerry
13:06:55 [billroberts]
13:07:10 [Kerry__]
proposed: approve minutes
13:07:17 [billroberts]
13:07:20 [Maik]
13:07:22 [ScottSimmons]
13:07:28 [sam]
13:07:34 [Kerry__]
resolved: accept minutes
13:07:41 [billroberts]
13:07:50 [Kerry__]
patent call
13:08:35 [billroberts]
13:08:55 [Kerry__]
topic: brief recap of previous meeting
13:09:23 [Kerry__]
bill: billroberts discussed criteria and also updates wiki page
13:09:41 [Kerry__]
billroberts: also had presentation from ANU team
13:10:05 [Kerry__]
... suggest w have update from ANU and Maik at Reading today, then plan what to do next
13:10:10 [Kerry__]
13:10:35 [Kerry__]
... invite sam or Duo to speak
13:11:01 [Kerry__]
Duo: not much to say -- getting protoype working but not quite ready to show off
13:11:24 [Kerry__]
...we have some data in a live application but not quite uasable or interactive yet -- will take another week or 2
13:11:52 [Kerry__]
billroberts: anything stood out as challenging or othereise of interest to us?
13:12:06 [Kerry__]
Duo: just getting things to run and work together
13:12:37 [Kerry__]
.... how to create sparql queries that are efficient enough for coverage data -- we have identified this as significant
13:13:13 [Kerry__]
billroberts: spaql on large data or woth complicated joins is more than an art than a science and can be implementation dependent
13:13:20 [Kerry__]
13:13:32 [Kerry__]
...some trial and erro for how to best write the query
13:13:39 [Kerry__]
13:13:44 [Kerry__]
which sparql?
13:14:06 [Kerry__]
billroberts: duo: jena and fuseki
13:14:22 [Kerry__]
billroberts: jena list is very helpful
13:14:42 [Kerry__]
... please let me know when you have something to show and we will schedule it
13:15:24 [Kerry__]
billroberts: how is coveragejson going?
13:15:42 [Kerry__]
maik:spoke at egu, got good feedback
13:16:05 [Kerry__]
.. completely different to what exists now -- at first confused by then positive
13:16:11 [Kerry__]
13:16:40 [Maik]
13:16:42 [Kerry__]
maik: been looking at what exactly json-ld means for coveragejson
13:17:09 [Kerry__]
... this is a coveragejson doc with json-ld context
13:17:19 [Kerry__]
...some perople were asking about this
13:17:31 [Kerry__]
13:18:01 [Kerry__]
...also how to express quesantity types, fractions, etc, pls see our issues page and cookbook we are writing
13:18:11 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:18:11 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
13:18:28 [Maik]
13:18:35 [phila]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:18:39 [phila]
present+ phila
13:18:41 [phila]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:18:51 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:18:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
13:18:53 [Kerry__]
billroberts: rdf datacube has dealt with these questions too and might help here
13:19:15 [Kerry__]
Maik: here is what we are looking at for rgb bands.
13:19:17 [phila]
present+ Kerry
13:19:25 [phila]
regrets+ Jeremy
13:19:41 [Maik]
13:19:44 [Kerry__] writing a javascript library for arrays called (missed it)
13:20:26 [Kerry__]
... more lightweight than others for mutidimensional data, expecially for coveragejson multidimensional range objects
13:20:33 [billroberts]
(library called xndarray)
13:20:34 [Kerry__]
...will have coordinates some time
13:20:53 [Kerry__]
...that's it...
13:21:29 [Kerry__]
billroberts: collaboration with beijing re CEO-ld -- have you heard anything?
13:22:03 [Kerry__]
Maik: they have implemented coveragejson from scratch with geotiff and landsat
13:22:24 [Kerry__]
... see how to efficiently have an api for big amounts of statellite images
13:22:38 [Kerry__]
billroberts: uses a geotiff to ccoveragejson converter
13:23:06 [Kerry__]
billroberts: how do we take our scoping work and use it?
13:23:33 [Kerry__]
.... we should aim towards producing a spec
13:23:51 [Kerry__] well we also need a primer to esxplain what we are trying to achieve
13:24:31 [Kerry__]
s...can use these solution criteria
13:24:47 [Kerry__]
...but need to go further on exploringdetails on what that would be
13:25:24 [Kerry__]
13:26:05 [Kerry__]
...thinking to continue both tracks as at present and at some point we compare these solutions to criteria and make a proposed solution
13:26:23 [Kerry__]
... also need to test alongside existing technology such as wcs
13:26:43 [Kerry__]
... to demonstrate we have something to offer
13:27:13 [phila]
q+ to answer Duo's question
13:27:17 [phila]
ack k
13:27:59 [phila]
ack me
13:27:59 [Zakim]
phila, you wanted to answer Duo's question
13:28:56 [Kerry__]
phila: an implementation for a spec needs 2 independent implementations of every feature of the sepc, so it's a high bar!
13:29:07 [Kerry__]
... needs to be as good as html or css...
13:29:37 [Kerry__]
...if ANU does na REading does and they both implement everything, but we really would like a third too
13:29:51 [Kerry__]
.... and a common test suite is needed too, and exmaples
13:30:22 [Kerry__]
... if we are going for something as solid as that then we need all this
13:30:52 [Kerry__]
billroberts: then we also need to be canvassing for people outside this meeting for implementations too
13:31:35 [Kerry__]
phila: If we say 'who wnats to do cool map overlays" etc we can get a huge amount of interest if we do this right
13:32:28 [Kerry__]
billroberts: amybe swrl too
13:32:54 [Kerry__]
phila: swrl as a commercial player is a plus -- working with the universities here
13:33:16 [Kerry__]
billroberts: we could do this if it works for our use cases
13:33:47 [Kerry__]
....evidence of commercial application is extra power it seems
13:33:56 [Kerry__]
phila: yes. shows it has value
13:34:13 [phila]
13:34:39 [Kerry__]
billroberts: is a spec that works towards a rec plus a primer as a technical note ok?
13:34:50 [Kerry__]
phila: that is one way, but not the only way.
13:35:24 [Kerry__]
phila: matbe unlike ssn, the test suite may be important itself as supplmentary material
13:35:33 [Kerry__]
... also whatever OGC needs
13:35:50 [billroberts]
13:36:12 [Kerry__]
billroberts: so... how do we get to that point/
13:36:31 [Kerry__]
13:36:51 [Duo]
13:37:01 [Kerry__]
billroberts: will cjheck over which BPs need we need to take into account
13:37:21 [Kerry__]
..we may need to move requiremnt to formal testable form
13:37:27 [ScottSimmons]
13:39:08 [phila]
-> Activity Streams
13:40:33 [Kerry__]
kerry: suggest looking at WCS too for an idea
13:40:34 [billroberts]
13:40:45 [Kerry__]
ack kerry
13:41:10 [Kerry__]
Duo: testing framework -- who would develop this suite?
13:41:31 [phila]
Build the suite as you go, then rationalise into a doc
13:41:32 [Kerry__]
... we'd like to strt building ad testing against this asap
13:41:47 [phila]
13:41:48 [Kerry__]
billroberts: agrees... we will need volunteers
13:41:53 [phila]
ack Duo
13:42:17 [Kerry__]
ScottSimmons: we can use ogc teamengine for test development as it will need one for spec anyway
13:42:27 [phila]
ack s
13:42:46 [Kerry__]
...ogc does note require multiple implementations but the test suite is very important
13:43:18 [Kerry__]
...this staurday there might be a decision that will affect the standard tier wrt reference implementations
13:43:27 [Kerry__]
billroberts: "abstract test suite"
13:43:47 [Kerry__]
ScottSimmons: set out in words that exaplins what a physical test suite would look lie
13:43:59 [Kerry__]
13:44:23 [Kerry__]
[scott looks for an abstract test suite to share]
13:44:41 [ScottSimmons]
look at Annex A in
13:45:28 [Kerry__]
billroberts: so we need our requirements formalised, a test suite, and in the meantime example implementations to carry on. then we can evaluate implementations against the requirements
13:45:56 [Kerry__]
... implementations will also help us to understand appropriateness for requirements
13:45:59 [Kerry__]
13:46:11 [phila]
ack k
13:48:17 [Kerry__]
phila: requirements are always important becuase they help you develop the test suite -- as an anchor-- but alsway leave out or cover up stuff
13:48:33 [Kerry__]
...suc has huge assumptions
13:48:41 [Kerry__]
...we have a good UCR
13:49:03 [Kerry__]
..does not say "the Web has to exist' as it is assumed
13:49:20 [Kerry__]
...but just doing what the requirements says can be silly
13:49:56 [Kerry__]
we have one verty advanced and one rapidly developing group, plus commercial interst, plus chinese group so we have time to work on this
13:50:32 [Kerry__]
..if we can develop some of that test data too and get in place by (northern) summer break we'd be cooking with gas
13:50:58 [Kerry__]
...i would be happy to say then that we are making progress, but if we get to september still messing around, im not so sure..
13:51:39 [Kerry__]
billroberts: all good.
13:52:08 [Kerry__]
billroberts: will take first attempt at requirements
13:52:10 [Kerry__]
13:52:44 [phila]
ack k
13:53:06 [phila]
Kerry__: Don't forget that the WG's UCR already exists :-)
13:53:28 [Kerry__]
billroberts: any other questions?
13:53:30 [phila]
13:53:51 [Kerry__]
Maik: how concrete or abstract would they be?
13:54:05 [Kerry__]
... itsounds like they have to be abstract
13:54:25 [Kerry__]
billroberts: needs to be concrete while expressing what, not how
13:54:34 [Kerry__]
...requirements doc, not design doc
13:54:52 [Kerry__]
...not excessively prejudging the soluti0ons
13:55:07 [Kerry__]
...will try writing something
13:55:32 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
13:55:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
13:56:02 [Kerry__]
billroberts: close meeting
13:56:11 [billroberts]
thanks kerry!
13:56:13 [Kerry__]
rrsagent, make logs public
13:56:17 [billroberts]
thanks everyone
13:56:19 [Kerry__]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:56:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate Kerry__
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