IRC log of sdwcov on 2016-05-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:00:38 [RRSAgent]

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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/05/04-sdwcov-irc

13:00:40 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs world

13:00:40 [Zakim]

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13:00:42 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be SDW

13:00:42 [Zakim]

ok, trackbot

13:00:43 [trackbot]

Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference

13:00:43 [trackbot]

Date: 04 May 2016

13:00:50 [phila]

zakim, code?

13:00:50 [Zakim]

I have been told this is SDW

13:01:49 [billroberts]

Thanks phila

13:01:51 [ScottSimmons]

present+ ScottSimmons

13:02:01 [billroberts]

present+ billroberts

13:02:02 [Maik]

present+ Maik

13:02:11 [billroberts]

regrets+ jonblower

13:02:16 [billroberts]

regrets+ eparsons

13:02:32 [Duo]

present+ Duo

13:02:42 [phila]

zakim, this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/e.php?MTID=m9db0a515da84c0ca0de9ad69db3435bb 642 889 345, pw is sdw

13:02:42 [Zakim]

got it, phila

13:02:51 [phila]

zakim, save this description

13:02:51 [Zakim]

this conference description has been saved, phila

13:02:55 [phila]

zakim, code?

13:02:55 [Zakim]

I have been told this is https://mit.webex.com/mit/e.php?MTID=m9db0a515da84c0ca0de9ad69db3435bb 642 889 345, pw is sdw

13:04:48 [sam]

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13:05:22 [Kerry__]

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13:06:22 [Kerry__]

scribe: kerry

13:06:32 [Kerry__]

chair: billroberts

13:06:34 [billroberts]

https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Coverage-Telecon20160504

13:06:42 [Kerry__]

scribenick: kerry

13:06:55 [billroberts]

https://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwcov-minutes

13:07:10 [Kerry__]

proposed: approve minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwcov-minutes

13:07:17 [billroberts]

+1

13:07:20 [Maik]

+1

13:07:22 [ScottSimmons]

+1

13:07:28 [sam]

+1

13:07:34 [Kerry__]

resolved: accept minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/04/20-sdwcov-minutes

13:07:41 [billroberts]

https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call

13:07:50 [Kerry__]

patent call

13:08:35 [billroberts]

https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Coverage_Solution_Criteria

13:08:55 [Kerry__]

topic: brief recap of previous meeting

13:09:23 [Kerry__]

bill: billroberts discussed criteria and also updates wiki page

13:09:41 [Kerry__]

billroberts: also had presentation from ANU team

13:10:05 [Kerry__]

... suggest w have update from ANU and Maik at Reading today, then plan what to do next

13:10:10 [Kerry__]

s/w/we/

13:10:35 [Kerry__]

... invite sam or Duo to speak

13:11:01 [Kerry__]

Duo: not much to say -- getting protoype working but not quite ready to show off

13:11:24 [Kerry__]

...we have some data in a live application but not quite uasable or interactive yet -- will take another week or 2

13:11:52 [Kerry__]

billroberts: anything stood out as challenging or othereise of interest to us?

13:12:06 [Kerry__]

Duo: just getting things to run and work together

13:12:37 [Kerry__]

.... how to create sparql queries that are efficient enough for coverage data -- we have identified this as significant

13:13:13 [Kerry__]

billroberts: spaql on large data or woth complicated joins is more than an art than a science and can be implementation dependent

13:13:20 [Kerry__]

s/woth/with/

13:13:32 [Kerry__]

...some trial and erro for how to best write the query

13:13:39 [Kerry__]

s/erro/error/

13:13:44 [Kerry__]

which sparql?

13:14:06 [Kerry__]

billroberts: duo: jena and fuseki

13:14:22 [Kerry__]

billroberts: jena list is very helpful

13:14:42 [Kerry__]

... please let me know when you have something to show and we will schedule it

13:15:24 [Kerry__]

billroberts: how is coveragejson going?

13:15:42 [Kerry__]

maik:spoke at egu, got good feedback

13:16:05 [Kerry__]

.. completely different to what exists now -- at first confused by then positive

13:16:11 [Kerry__]

s/by/but/

13:16:40 [Maik]

http://json-ld.org/playground/#startTab=tab-compacted&json-ld=https%3A%2F%2Fgist.githubusercontent.com%2Fneothemachine%2F6c7a337c82575efc08bbf43b234c9b01%2Fraw%2F6981d315eef329439696d3f802642b86b0ce56ba%2Fgrid-example.covjson&context=%7B%7D

13:16:42 [Kerry__]

maik: been looking at what exactly json-ld means for coveragejson

13:17:09 [Kerry__]

... this is a coveragejson doc with json-ld context

13:17:19 [Kerry__]

...some perople were asking about this

13:17:31 [Kerry__]

s/perope/people/

13:18:01 [Kerry__]

...also how to express quesantity types, fractions, etc, pls see our issues page and cookbook we are writing

13:18:11 [phila]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

13:18:11 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/04-sdwcov-minutes.html phila

13:18:28 [Maik]

https://github.com/Reading-eScience-Centre/coveragejson/issues/63

13:18:35 [phila]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:18:39 [phila]

present+ phila

13:18:41 [phila]

RRSAgent, make logs public

13:18:51 [phila]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

13:18:51 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/04-sdwcov-minutes.html phila

13:18:53 [Kerry__]

billroberts: rdf datacube has dealt with these questions too and might help here

13:19:15 [Kerry__]

Maik: here is what we are looking at for rgb bands.

13:19:17 [phila]

present+ Kerry

13:19:25 [phila]

regrets+ Jeremy

13:19:41 [Maik]

https://github.com/neothemachine/xndarray

13:19:44 [Kerry__]

...am writing a javascript library for arrays called (missed it)

13:20:26 [Kerry__]

... more lightweight than others for mutidimensional data, expecially for coveragejson multidimensional range objects

13:20:33 [billroberts]

(library called xndarray)

13:20:34 [Kerry__]

...will have coordinates some time

13:20:53 [Kerry__]

...that's it...

13:21:29 [Kerry__]

billroberts: collaboration with beijing re CEO-ld -- have you heard anything?

13:22:03 [Kerry__]

Maik: they have implemented coveragejson from scratch with geotiff and landsat

13:22:24 [Kerry__]

... see how to efficiently have an api for big amounts of statellite images

13:22:38 [Kerry__]

billroberts: uses a geotiff to ccoveragejson converter

13:23:06 [Kerry__]

billroberts: how do we take our scoping work and use it?

13:23:33 [Kerry__]

.... we should aim towards producing a spec

13:23:51 [Kerry__]

...as well we also need a primer to esxplain what we are trying to achieve

13:24:31 [Kerry__]

s...can use these solution criteria

13:24:47 [Kerry__]

...but need to go further on exploringdetails on what that would be

13:25:24 [Kerry__]

q+

13:26:05 [Kerry__]

...thinking to continue both tracks as at present and at some point we compare these solutions to criteria and make a proposed solution

13:26:23 [Kerry__]

... also need to test alongside existing technology such as wcs

13:26:43 [Kerry__]

... to demonstrate we have something to offer

13:27:13 [phila]

q+ to answer Duo's question

13:27:17 [phila]

ack k

13:27:59 [phila]

ack me

13:27:59 [Zakim]

phila, you wanted to answer Duo's question

13:28:56 [Kerry__]

phila: an implementation for a spec needs 2 independent implementations of every feature of the sepc, so it's a high bar!

13:29:07 [Kerry__]

... needs to be as good as html or css...

13:29:37 [Kerry__]

...if ANU does na REading does and they both implement everything, but we really would like a third too

13:29:51 [Kerry__]

.... and a common test suite is needed too, and exmaples

13:30:22 [Kerry__]

... if we are going for something as solid as that then we need all this

13:30:52 [Kerry__]

billroberts: then we also need to be canvassing for people outside this meeting for implementations too

13:31:35 [Kerry__]

phila: If we say 'who wnats to do cool map overlays" etc we can get a huge amount of interest if we do this right

13:32:28 [Kerry__]

billroberts: amybe swrl too

13:32:54 [Kerry__]

phila: swrl as a commercial player is a plus -- working with the universities here

13:33:16 [Kerry__]

billroberts: we could do this if it works for our use cases

13:33:47 [Kerry__]

....evidence of commercial application is extra power it seems

13:33:56 [Kerry__]

phila: yes. shows it has value

13:34:13 [phila]

s/swrl/SWIRRL/g

13:34:39 [Kerry__]

billroberts: is a spec that works towards a rec plus a primer as a technical note ok?

13:34:50 [Kerry__]

phila: that is one way, but not the only way.

13:35:24 [Kerry__]

phila: matbe unlike ssn, the test suite may be important itself as supplmentary material

13:35:33 [Kerry__]

... also whatever OGC needs

13:35:50 [billroberts]

q?

13:36:12 [Kerry__]

billroberts: so... how do we get to that point/

13:36:31 [Kerry__]

q+

13:36:51 [Duo]

q+

13:37:01 [Kerry__]

billroberts: will cjheck over which BPs need we need to take into account

13:37:21 [Kerry__]

..we may need to move requiremnt to formal testable form

13:37:27 [ScottSimmons]

q+

13:39:08 [phila]

-> https://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/ Activity Streams

13:40:33 [Kerry__]

kerry: suggest looking at WCS too for an idea

13:40:34 [billroberts]

q?

13:40:45 [Kerry__]

ack kerry

13:41:10 [Kerry__]

Duo: testing framework -- who would develop this suite?

13:41:31 [phila]

Build the suite as you go, then rationalise into a doc

13:41:32 [Kerry__]

... we'd like to strt building ad testing against this asap

13:41:47 [phila]

q?

13:41:48 [Kerry__]

billroberts: agrees... we will need volunteers

13:41:53 [phila]

ack Duo

13:42:17 [Kerry__]

ScottSimmons: we can use ogc teamengine for test development as it will need one for spec anyway

13:42:27 [phila]

ack s

13:42:46 [Kerry__]

...ogc does note require multiple implementations but the test suite is very important

13:43:18 [Kerry__]

...this staurday there might be a decision that will affect the standard tier wrt reference implementations

13:43:27 [Kerry__]

billroberts: "abstract test suite"

13:43:47 [Kerry__]

ScottSimmons: set out in words that exaplins what a physical test suite would look lie

13:43:59 [Kerry__]

s/lie/like/

13:44:23 [Kerry__]

[scott looks for an abstract test suite to share]

13:44:41 [ScottSimmons]

look at Annex A in http://docs.opengeospatial.org/is/14-100r2/14-100r2.html

13:45:28 [Kerry__]

billroberts: so we need our requirements formalised, a test suite, and in the meantime example implementations to carry on. then we can evaluate implementations against the requirements

13:45:56 [Kerry__]

... implementations will also help us to understand appropriateness for requirements

13:45:59 [Kerry__]

q+

13:46:11 [phila]

ack k

13:48:17 [Kerry__]

phila: requirements are always important becuase they help you develop the test suite -- as an anchor-- but alsway leave out or cover up stuff

13:48:33 [Kerry__]

...suc has huge assumptions

13:48:41 [Kerry__]

...we have a good UCR

13:49:03 [Kerry__]

..does not say "the Web has to exist' as it is assumed

13:49:20 [Kerry__]

...but just doing what the requirements says can be silly

13:49:56 [Kerry__]

we have one verty advanced and one rapidly developing group, plus commercial interst, plus chinese group so we have time to work on this

13:50:32 [Kerry__]

..if we can develop some of that test data too and get in place by (northern) summer break we'd be cooking with gas

13:50:58 [Kerry__]

...i would be happy to say then that we are making progress, but if we get to september still messing around, im not so sure..

13:51:39 [Kerry__]

billroberts: all good.

13:52:08 [Kerry__]

billroberts: will take first attempt at requirements

13:52:10 [Kerry__]

q+

13:52:44 [phila]

ack k

13:53:06 [phila]

Kerry__: Don't forget that the WG's UCR already exists :-) http://www.w3.org/sdw-ucr/

13:53:28 [Kerry__]

billroberts: any other questions?

13:53:30 [phila]

s/sdw-ucr/TR\/sdw-ucr/

13:53:51 [Kerry__]

Maik: how concrete or abstract would they be?

13:54:05 [Kerry__]

... itsounds like they have to be abstract

13:54:25 [Kerry__]

billroberts: needs to be concrete while expressing what, not how

13:54:34 [Kerry__]

...requirements doc, not design doc

13:54:52 [Kerry__]

...not excessively prejudging the soluti0ons

13:55:07 [Kerry__]

...will try writing something

13:55:32 [phila]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

13:55:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/04-sdwcov-minutes.html phila

13:56:02 [Kerry__]

billroberts: close meeting

13:56:11 [billroberts]

thanks kerry!

13:56:13 [Kerry__]

rrsagent, make logs public

13:56:17 [billroberts]

thanks everyone

13:56:19 [Kerry__]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:56:19 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/05/04-sdwcov-minutes.html Kerry__

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