07:25:57 RRSAgent has joined #auto 07:25:57 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-irc 07:26:04 Zakim has joined #auto 07:26:48 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/auto/wg/wiki/Main_Page#April_26-29.2C_2016_in_Paris 07:27:07 paul: Qing An and Wonsuk will join the Genivi liaison call 07:27:14 urata_access has joined #auto 07:27:28 philippe: [ Quick status (since last AMM) ] 07:27:39 ... Franca IDL for Web API generation 07:27:52 ... no resource for WebIDL so far 07:28:12 ... started to develop HTML/JS/Node.js-based POC 07:28:30 ... Telco twice a month with W3C guys 07:28:44 ... [ Reminder: FSA architecture today ] 07:29:01 ... replace QML-based HMI to HTML5 07:29:14 ... [ Purpose of the Oroof Of Concept ] 07:29:33 ... [ Proof Of Concept: 3 solutions ] 07:30:22 ... (shows demo on VM-ware (Ubuntu 14.04) 07:30:27 s/)/))/ 07:30:52 ... Stub, Single client -> Multi-client based on sockets 07:31:07 ... [ HMI migration to HTML: nodejs based approach ] 07:31:29 ... nodejs server-JS-HTML5 HMI 07:31:40 ... [ Several implementations for one interface ] 07:32:13 ... FrancaIDL - DBus XML - Javascript - V8 code to DBus proxy 07:33:12 paul: did you show the architecture slide? 07:33:29 philippe: [ HMI migration to HTML: nodejs based approach ] 07:33:57 paul: using nodejs server to communicate underlying C++ platform 07:34:05 ... similar to the architecture of Kevin 07:34:17 kevin: shows his architecture diagram 07:34:25 hira has joined #auto 07:34:46 rrsagent, make log publi 07:34:50 rrsagent, make log public 07:34:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 07:34:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 07:35:17 paul: application server here is nodejs server in Philippe's diagram 07:35:31 rstreif has joined #auto 07:35:41 ... you could go for Franca or JS 07:36:18 ... socket server speaking REST for Web API 07:37:03 ... we debated the JS library yesterday 07:37:37 ... Wonsuk and Qing An are now co-Chairs 07:37:48 ... also Peter and Rudi are co-Chairs for the WG 07:37:59 s/now co-Chairs/now co-Chairs for the BG/ 07:38:39 peter: you (=GENIVI) need to make decision how to handle WebIDL-based API 07:39:21 paul: we talked about our policy at the beginning of this meeting 07:39:39 ... we can probably focus on similar type of security 07:39:54 Soumya has joined #auto 07:40:03 ... (looking at Kevin's architecture diagram) 07:40:17 ... this is the pattern we've been talking 07:40:42 ... for the I/F between app server and vehicle I/F module, Genivi uses Franca 07:41:23 ... we use WebSocket or REST for the I/F between Browser and App Server 07:42:00 kevin: all the clients are meant to be located within a vehicle 07:42:13 ... browser on the vehicle 07:42:54 ... Native apps use Qt, etc. 07:43:11 ... "Off vehicle clients" means the rest of the whole world 07:44:58 paul: would like to see stronger collaboration based on additional contribution by Qing An and Wonsuk 07:45:53 wonsuk: think JS APIs would require more time for implementations 07:46:24 ... would see use cases and requirements by GENIVI using websocket 07:46:44 ... try REST API first and then could extend the capability to JS API 07:49:39 q? 07:49:44 paul: we have liaison meeting with GENIVI 07:49:45 ... 07:49:53 qingan: already implementation using websocket? 07:50:24 philippe: shows [ Another example with WebIDL ] 07:52:13 paul: here there is WebIDL on the left side 07:52:53 ... to me WebIDL is used for JS generation 07:53:23 rudi: strongly in favor to use WebIDL for Web browsers 07:53:54 ... Franca may be used for GENIVI use cases 07:54:10 paul: so we separated the I/F levels 07:55:27 ... we're still talking about service level API 07:59:44 (discussion on the approach for LBS API) 08:00:16 ted: ACCESS implemented JS library which talk the underlying platform using websocket 08:00:36 ... using a pollyfill library 08:01:34 paul: think service layer is more important than WebIDL 08:01:57 q+ 08:01:57 AdamC has joined #auto 08:03:02 philippe: this year we use FrancaIDL 08:03:14 ... and generate other APIs based on that 08:04:45 paul: you can generate anything using Franca for system-level API 08:05:02 ... server-level API will be websocket/REST 08:05:15 ... web-level API is WebIDL 08:06:13 peter: for Chromium, we define WebIDL and then generate corresponding C++ codes 08:08:10 ted: WebIDL is used as a high-level I/F notation for C++ 08:08:25 ... you can use WebIDL for nodejs 08:10:25 (discussion using the diagram on the flipchart) 08:24:04 q? 08:28:30 ted: Vehicle API is a high-level API to handle vehicle signals 08:29:43 ... could handle LBS as well by that level of API as a starting point 08:31:24 wonsuk: still not clear 08:32:23 paul: high-level client spec (WebIDL), service spec, data spec (VSS), security 08:32:41 hira: what the "service spec" is like? 08:32:55 paul: websocket-based api 08:34:28 hira: my point is that we should define JSON format for the I/F between Browser and Server 08:34:49 ... "service spec" would be too much 08:36:13 wonsuk: vehicle data spec handles what kind of data the vehicle should provide 08:41:50 Paul has joined #auto 08:48:30 PowellKinney has joined #auto 08:49:44 ack k 08:50:01 data and api 08:50:40 topic: EU Platform Co-operative-ITS (C-ITS) Workgroup related to In-Vehicle Data Access (Volker) 08:50:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 08:50:47 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 08:51:17 scribenick: ted 08:51:27 peters has joined #auto 08:51:44 volker: it is about v2x 08:52:18 … in the @@@ car consortium they came up with various use cases for warning about traffic, hazards etc 08:52:37 … providing infrastructure for autonomous driving 08:52:58 … EU commission looking at what is needed for standardization, research, regulation etc 08:53:48 … scope of the platform is under the transport sector of EU commission 08:53:59 … first plenary meeting in november 2014 08:54:27 … they have had monthly wg meetins since november 2015 08:54:58 [list of partners/companies - 136 people in 11 wg - slide 7] 08:55:10 volker: multiple sectors involved 08:55:33 [oem, telco data, services, silicon] 08:55:59 volker: looking at cost level analysis, business case/deployment, legal issues, potential standardization 08:56:26 … ibm was appointed to participate on the business cases, privacy and security... 08:56:37 … the technical issues 08:57:00 … phased approach being defined 08:57:19 … there are 4 task forces 08:57:30 … yesterday i presented on ev part 08:57:52 … they are looking from the cloud api requiremnts, within the vehicle diagnostics and data 08:58:07 … location, speed and so on 08:58:21 … aggregate information being sent to the cloud 08:58:33 … based on frequency level and granularity of data needed 08:58:58 … they are looking at current ODB2 possibilities for getting this data and IVI going forward 09:00:00 [task force organization participants - slide 10] 09:00:08 [stakeholder orgs - slide 11] 09:01:07 [diagram on secure channels from vehicle to cloud and back end service providers. iso 20077 & 20078] 09:01:26 present+ Ted Guild(W3C), Kaz_Ashimura(W3C), Wonsuk_Lee(ETRI), Volker_Fricke(IBM), Kevin_Gavigan(JLR), Philippe_Colliot(PSA), Powell_Kinney(Vinli), Soumya_Kanti_Datta(Eurecom), Rudi_Streif(JLR), Qing_An(Alibaba) 09:01:37 present+ Paul_Boyes(Inrix), Peter_Winzell(Mitsubishi_Electric), Shinjiro Urata(ACCESS), Osamu_Nakamura(W3C), HiroKazu_Hayashi(Sony), Philipp_Hoschka(W3C), Sanjeev_BA(Samsung), Tatsuhiko_Hirabayashi(KDDI) 09:01:41 Chair: Paul 09:01:58 Meeting: Automotive WG f2f Meeting in Paris - Day 2 09:02:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:02:02 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 09:02:36 volker: this is for providing B2B data exchanges 09:02:37 i/Qing An and Wonsuk will join/scribenick: kaz/ 09:02:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:02:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 09:03:33 i/Qing An and Wonsuk will join/@@@missing part will be added later@@@/ 09:03:35 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:03:35 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 09:04:41 … they are expecting the cloud api to be implemented within 6 years 09:05:30 … from Daimler presentation... 09:05:50 … recent acquisition of Here by German oem 09:06:44 … high level use cases as a result service calls, roadside assistance 09:07:28 … we see three different models for external access to vehicle data ExVe Extended Vehicle 09:08:25 … I have explained W3C activity to this group 09:11:48 hira: is there plan to use w3c api? 09:12:14 volker: no not yet. it was recognized but did not make it into the final report 09:12:47 … that particular wg was put on hold since they did not have a clear path on going forward 09:13:11 … the mailing list is still alive and can possibly start the dialog there 09:14:01 shinjiro: on daimler slide 5 is there a movement for the middle model? 09:15:00 [ivi and apps approach for external vehicle data exchange] 09:15:03 volker: the oem were more focused on other models 09:15:11 ted: more interest in building silos 09:15:33 volker: correct 09:15:36 rudi: this factors into all oem business 09:16:15 volker: apps are being developed by 3rd party developers on some platforms already like toyota 09:16:37 shinjiro: how is etsi involved? 09:16:43 volker: not really that started later 09:17:08 … we hope to promote this to various oem 09:19:01 hiro: toyota taking more of a sdl approach, are you seeing that more? 09:19:11 paul: sdl was given to genivi when ford open sourced it 09:19:35 … it is basically way for head unit to talk to phones 09:19:48 rudi: it is an alternate approach to eg carplay 09:20:00 paul: they are a number of variations of the same thing 09:20:38 … there is discussion of extending sdl with vehicle data in addition to being able to run apps from phones on ivi 09:20:52 … not sure it is that successful yet 09:20:54 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html ted 09:21:27 [ morning break ] 09:21:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 09:21:30 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 09:34:50 PowellKinney has joined #auto 09:36:59 Topic: WoT 09:37:41 soumya: from iot perspective connected cars are a collection of things, sensors actuators 09:38:27 … from CAN it would be interesting to get at the various underlying sensor data 09:38:51 … you could determine weather conditions for instance from sensors 09:39:26 … from wot/iot we want some best practices for collecting uniform data 09:40:00 … oem have different sensors with data available at different frequencies 09:41:30 … wot is not looking at a single vertical (eg automotive) but bigger picture 09:41:56 … main focus for us is a data cycle 09:42:34 … seeking to get this off the vehicle and storage may be at different levels, roadside service infrastructure, cloud etc 09:42:49 … different data consumer needs should be factored in 09:43:12 … data collection, dissemination, consumption and configuration management 09:43:27 [slide 10 architecture diagram] 09:44:18 soumya: we have algorithms for processing and storing aggregate data 09:44:36 [slide 11 subsystems and elements] 09:46:25 soumya: we have not defined many privacy mechanisms yet but are thinking about acl administration and data consumers 09:48:00 [slide 14 prototyping scenario] 09:48:25 soumya: we were able to access a number of vehicle sensors and send to a roadside gateway 09:49:36 … from consumer side we can initiate discovery to query what is available and then access the data points of interest 09:50:08 [slide 15 hardware used for prototype] 09:52:02 [demonstration] 10:02:36 soumya: main conclusions: 10:02:52 … intersection of wot and vehicles 10:03:12 … want to integrate vehicles into wot 10:04:03 … describing prototyping experience, need to coordinate with auto wg 10:04:45 q+ 10:04:48 volker: are you looking at both pull and push for getting this information 10:04:49 q+ 10:05:06 soumya: we had a tiny web server in the car itself 10:05:25 kaz: it would be great to continue collaboration 10:07:29 s/collaboration/collaboration. I believe you could make great contribution to both the vehicle api side and the websocket api side 10:09:01 q- 10:10:43 ted: interested in how WoT handles data sharing 10:11:40 s/interested in how WoT handles data sharing/data coming off vehicles from your point of view will be either from apps on ivi or oem silos - problem will be sharing, privacy policies/ 10:12:04 urata_access has joined #auto 10:12:22 Topic: OCF 10:12:34 sanjeev: we have open governance 10:12:40 … 170 members 10:13:10 … we are getting signficant momentum 10:13:45 … we have a RESTful framework, automotive is one of the sectors we are looking at 10:14:10 … I am tasked with looking at the different standards in this area 10:14:29 … we are looking at JLR/Genivi RVI in particular 10:15:17 … demo concept for us was from hmi in a land rover speaking ocf protocol to other devices 10:15:33 … all of our work is open and published 10:16:05 … we treat rvi as yet another service, had a simple json block describing it 10:16:21 … metadata,auth, capability list, tags 10:16:51 … we came up with a quick data format instead of looking at w3c or other models 10:17:34 … a capability is metadata block, headers, response and tags 10:17:46 [example capability json] 10:18:29 sanjeev: we can provide custome x-headers in addition 10:18:54 … authorization is simple, we went with oath2 10:19:25 … here is an interesting use case, brewing coffee based on weather forecast 10:20:19 q+ to ask if the initialization phase handles device discovery 10:20:20 [i hope it conforms to https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2324] 10:20:37 [Hyper Text Coffee Pot Control Protocol (HTCPCP/1.0)] 10:20:45 q+ to ask how to handle metadata (maybe using JSON-LD?) 10:21:18 [demo] 10:22:44 sanjeev: we are using oic protocol instead of http 10:24:44 q+ to ask if Sanjeev is interested in joining the Automotive WG/BG and/or the WoT IG 10:26:17 kaz, you wanted to ask if the initialization phase handles device discovery and to ask how to handle metadata (maybe using JSON-LD?) and to ask if Sanjeev is interested in joining 10:26:17 ... the Automotive WG/BG and/or the WoT IG 10:28:41 kaz asks question on initialization slide 10:28:57 sanjeev: application needs to do the discovery 10:29:27 … device doesn't know nor need to the specific apps but the desired high level service such as send alerts not which specific service 10:31:55 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html ted 10:32:27 kaz: another question is how the service description handles metadata 10:32:33 ... a possibility is using JSON-LD 10:32:59 sanjeev: important point but IOTivity doesn't handle metadata at the moment 10:33:16 ... would like to see JSON-LD 10:33:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:33:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 10:33:31 [ Lunch ] 10:33:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 10:33:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 11:57:42 Soumya has joined #auto 11:57:42 QingAn has joined #auto 11:59:38 Karen has joined #auto 12:00:59 wonsuk has joined #auto 12:08:24 hira has joined #auto 12:10:28 kaz has joined #auto 12:13:59 paul: start to clarify tasks to do for each spec 12:14:09 urata_access has joined #auto 12:14:23 Yingying has joined #auto 12:14:55 s/spec/spec using a spreadsheet/ 12:15:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:15:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 12:16:58 kaz: Magnus from JLR should join the WG/BG 12:25:48 urata_access_ has joined #auto 12:26:19 (discussion on what should be done for each deliverable) 12:32:05 paul: copied the content from the spreadsheet to Word 12:52:03 Zakim has left #auto 13:59:11 kaz has joined #auto 14:06:25 topic: Lgistics 14:06:36 urata: wondering how to deal with TF discussions 14:06:59 ted: can use the current BG/WG list with tags on the subject line 14:07:10 peter: wondering about the next f2f 14:07:29 ted: there will be TPAC 2016 in Lisbon 14:08:11 kaz: Sep. 19-23 14:08:58 hira: when will be the next GENIVI AMM? 14:09:25 rudi: October 14:09:39 paul: there will TU-Auto in Detroit in June as well 14:10:13 ... 15th GENIVI AMM will be held in SFO 14:10:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html ted 14:13:03 -> https://www.w3.org/2016/09/TPAC/ TPAC 2016 page 14:13:29 -> http://www.genivi.org/events GENIVI event page 14:13:34 [ Meeting adjourned ] 14:13:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:13:38 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/29-auto-minutes.html kaz 18:37:54 rstreif has joined #auto