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07:01:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-hb-secure-services-irc
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07:01:27 <wseltzer> Meeting: Hardware-Based Secure Services CG, F2F Day 2
07:01:50 <wseltzer> Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/websec/wiki/hb-secure-services-workshop-:-agenda
07:02:06 <wseltzer> wseltzer has changed the topic to: Hardware-Based Secure Services Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/websec/wiki/hb-secure-services-workshop-:-agenda
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08:04:58 <rigo> => presentation round
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08:05:24 <virginie> All notes and finding from yesterday are here : https://v.etherpad.org/p/Hardware_Security
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08:06:33 <virginie> The live minutes of yesterday are available here : https://www.w3.org/2016/04/26-hb-secure-services-minutes.html
08:07:15 <virginie> agenda is here : https://github.com/w3c/websec/wiki/hb-secure-services-workshop-:-agenda
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08:09:21 <drogersuk> Wendy summarises the main points from the 26th
08:12:09 <drogersuk> A goal for today is to keep going with the work from yesterday and confirm that the use cases and features in etherpad are what we want to do
08:12:20 <drogersuk> ...outlining what these APIs may look like?
08:12:34 <drogersuk> ...how do we build that into the web, what are some of the functions?
08:12:42 <drogersuk> ...privacy and security considerations
08:12:49 <drogersuk> ...importance of accessibility
08:13:05 <drogersuk> ...what other dependencies and interactions we have
08:18:27 <virginie> David : we will have champions for each use case
08:18:41 <virginie> Sébastien contributed some pieces on use cases
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08:21:49 <virginie> Don ; where is that executed ?
08:22:27 <virginie> Sebastien : its a javascript, so in the browser, and it will be up to the browsre to execute it depending on its implementation
08:22:57 <virginie> Don : the use case I have in mind is the remote entity requesting to sign something, we may pass the data in clear.
08:23:32 <virginie> Paul : there is some effirt to do to convince that we can do that, and can we provide the API
08:23:58 <virginie> Paul : when you sign, you might need to give some ocntextual information to the user.
08:24:16 <virginie> Paul : explaining all the possible WYSWYS
08:24:52 <virginie> s/ocntextual /contextual
08:26:12 <virginie> sebastien : the context and message are going together seems to be a proposal
08:27:11 <wseltzer> Peter: Germany digital signature law had certified display component
08:27:33 <wseltzer> ... can we get there in the browser? or how close?
08:29:30 <wseltzer> rrsagent, make logs public
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08:54:17 <wseltzer> zakim, what color is the bikeshed?
08:54:17 <Zakim> I think Magenta haze
09:01:55 <rigo> KMS = Key management selection
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09:29:56 <wseltzer> flipchart image: https://github.com/w3c/websec/blob/gh-pages/transaction_confirmation.jpg
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09:52:28 <Sebastien> The WSD of the transaction confirmation / non repudiation use case: https://www.websequencediagrams.com/?lz=dGl0bGUgVHJhbnNhY3Rpb24gY29uZmlybWF0aW9uCgpwYXJ0aWNpcGFudCBFbmQtdXNlciBhcyBFVQAODVNlcnZpY2UgUHJvdmlkAB0GU1AAMQ1Ccm93ADYHQlIASw1UcnVzdGVkICBVSSAoVEUsIE9TIG9yIE1XKSBhcyBUVUkAXA9jdXJlIFN0b3JhZ2UAdQVlciAoZVNFLCBTSU0sIE5GQy9CTEUgU0UgLi4uAD8FU0NTCgpFVS0-U1A6IFJlcXVlc3Qgc2Vuc2l0aXZlIG9wZXIAgWoGU1AtPkJSOiBEZWxpdmVyIHRoZSBIVE1ML0pTIHBhZ2UKQlI[CUT]
09:53:52 <Sebastien> Sorry: the good one: https://www.websequencediagrams.com/?lz=dGl0bGUgVHJhbnNhY3Rpb24gY29uZmlybWF0aW9uCgpwYXJ0aWNpcGFudCBFbmQtdXNlciBhcyBFVQAODVNlcnZpY2UgUHJvdmlkAB0GU1AAMQ1Ccm93ADYHQlIASw1UcnVzdGVkICBVSSAoVEUsIE9TIG9yIE1XKSBhcyBUVUkAXA9jdXJlIFN0b3JhZ2UAdQVlciAoZVNFLCBTSU0sIE5GQy9CTEUgU0UgLi4uAD8FU0NTCgpFVS0-U1A6IFJlcXVlc3Qgc2Vuc2l0aXZlIG9wZXIAgWoGU1AtPkJSOiBEZWxpdmVyIHRoZSBIVE1ML0pTIHBhZ2UKQlIAGwZKUyBjb21wdXQAgiEHYWx0IE5STSBvbmx5IChub24gcm[CUT]
09:58:57 <Sebastien> URL is shortened by the IRC => complete link on etherpad
10:11:45 <virginie> zakim, generate minutes
10:11:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'generate minutes', virginie
10:12:31 <virginie> rrsagent, draft minutes
10:12:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-hb-secure-services-minutes.html virginie
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10:18:38 <ahana> Hi all, been detained by the lurgy so joining late on IRC. Ahana Datta, Security Engineer at the Ministry of Justice
10:19:56 <wseltzer> Don: describing the GP TEE, TUI
10:20:14 <wseltzer> ... high-level user authentication for trusted application
10:20:22 <wseltzer> ... signed and authorized to run in TEE
10:20:30 <wseltzer> ... can display PNG image (with restrictions)
10:20:43 <wseltzer> ... overlaid with plain text
10:21:07 <wseltzer> ... give it a text string and it overlays
10:21:21 <wseltzer> ... Displaying confidential information; no input other than 4 buttons
10:21:26 <wseltzer> ... ok, cancel, next, prev
10:21:37 <wseltzer> ... you can change the buttons
10:21:45 <wseltzer> ... everything else is under control of TEE
10:21:51 <wseltzer> ... trusted app doesn't get to change it
10:22:08 <virginie> Specification can be found under  Trusted User Interface API Specification v1.0 | GPD_SPE_020 http://www.globalplatform.org/specificationsdevice.asp
10:22:09 <wseltzer> ... 2d mode of operation is the same as the first, but adds entry field
10:22:17 <wseltzer> ... expected for PIN entry
10:22:26 <wseltzer> ... field can be displayed or not (*s)
10:22:38 <wseltzer> ... 3d mode, same with 2 entry fields, e.g. username pwd
10:22:56 <wseltzer> ... message boxes under control fo TEE as to format
10:23:02 <wseltzer> ... calling app just gets to insert text
10:23:20 <wseltzer> ... Next version: TEE can report back whether biometric was provided by user
10:23:47 <wseltzer> ... return handle which trusted app can use to determine which biometric, i.e., recognizing handle
10:24:00 <rigo> ahana, can I have your email to complete the list of attendees?
10:24:28 <ahana> ahana.datta@digital.justice.gov.uk
10:24:50 <wseltzer> ... currently, pretty simple display, user feedback
10:25:12 <wseltzer> Don: There wasn't a lot of pull for that work
10:25:24 <wseltzer> ... SPs were using different intereface, more like framebuffer
10:25:43 <wseltzer> ... framebuffer, you have this size screen, you can write to it to display to user
10:25:58 <wseltzer> ... then using event-driven interface to report, e.g., finger pressed
10:26:21 <wseltzer> ... GP is now standardizing low-level interface, framebuffer, input event-driven
10:26:41 <wseltzer> ... If you wanted to put this [previously discussed] app into the TEE
10:26:52 <wseltzer> ... you'd make it a TA
10:27:01 <wseltzer> ... get a UUID
10:28:12 <ahana> poor moj
10:29:03 <wseltzer> ... GP will provide APIs; allow adding of APIs that don't break the protection model
10:29:46 <wseltzer> ... this group could define UUID if it met GP rules
10:34:15 <wseltzer> Brian: bridging the gap between the JavaScript and GP
10:38:03 <wseltzer> wseltzer: Next, we need to test the plausibility with service providers (the "customers" of the API) and implementors
10:38:41 <wseltzer> virginie: Sebastien, are you willing to edit?
10:38:44 <wseltzer> Sebastien: yes
10:39:20 <wseltzer> ... I invite co-editors
10:39:58 <wseltzer> wseltzer: do we have volunteers to talk with service providers?
10:40:02 <wseltzer> virginie: Gemalto will
10:41:05 <wseltzer> brian: If I can get internal agreement at Visa
10:43:41 <wseltzer> wseltzer: I'll add some of the questions we want to ask
10:43:58 <wseltzer> ... and let's get a 1-2 pager for circulation with people who aren't in the room
10:44:48 <wseltzer> Topic: Secure Credential Storage and Management
10:47:23 <rigo> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
10:47:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/27-hb-secure-services-minutes.html rigo
10:48:13 <virginie> Note that web crypto API is here : https://www.w3.org/TR/WebCryptoAPI/
10:48:28 <virginie> That API may open the dependency paragraph
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10:49:05 <virginie> rigo : possession and knowledge can be different from an external secure chip and embedded secure chip
10:49:41 <wseltzer> Rigo: identity
10:49:44 <virginie> ahana, we are working on https://v.etherpad.org/p/Hardware_Security
10:50:07 <ahana> cheers
10:51:06 <virginie> Rigo : recommends that we stay open enough to be compatible with identity scheme that are not X509 complaint
10:51:27 <virginie> s/complaint/compliant
11:00:58 <wseltzer> Don: GP has been avoiding X.509
11:01:08 <wseltzer> ... public review starting on management framework
11:01:18 <wseltzer> ... not using any standard certificate structure
11:01:22 <wseltzer> ... a bit of ASN.1
11:02:35 <wseltzer> Paul: if you're storing public-private keypairs with a handle, maybe you don't care about certificate formats
11:03:07 <wseltzer> Don: you could use GP standards for provisioning data and keys for SE and TEE
11:04:13 <wseltzer> Don: SE uses methodology, TEE, OS, browser, each use methodology
11:04:55 <ahana> At MoJ, we've begun to use Amazon's KMS for key management and IAM for access
11:04:56 <ahana> https://d0.awsstatic.com/whitepapers/KMS-Cryptographic-Details.pdf
11:08:28 <wseltzer> s/GP has been avoiding X.509/GP TEE has been avoiding X.509/
11:12:09 <wseltzer> [again, most note-taking is at the bottom of the etherpad, https://v.etherpad.org/p/Hardware_Security ]
11:16:10 <virginie> Rigo : expose a case where a key is enriched with metadata such as domains authorized to use it
11:16:33 <virginie> igo : the metadata can be updated later
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11:32:09 <wseltzer> virginie: Revocation?
11:32:43 <wseltzer> ... both revoking access to a credential, and invalidating the credential
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