14:48:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:48:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/19-wai-wcag-irc
14:48:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:48:21 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:48:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:48:23 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:48:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:48:24 <trackbot> Date: 19 April 2016
14:48:26 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
14:48:26 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:48:59 <Joshue108> agenda+ Publishing new WCAG edited recommendation
14:49:25 <Joshue108> agenda+ New draft techniques from Low Vision TF
14:49:34 <Joshue108> agenda+ Some questions left from previous meeting
14:49:45 <Joshue108> agenda+ New Pull requests
14:49:52 <Joshue108> Survey: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/NewWCAGEditRec/
14:51:42 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
14:52:10 <AWK> zakim, agenda?
14:52:10 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:52:11 <Zakim> 1. Publishing new WCAG edited recommendation [from Joshue108]
14:52:11 <Zakim> 2. New draft techniques from Low Vision TF [from Joshue108]
14:52:11 <Zakim> 3. Some questions left from previous meeting [from Joshue108]
14:52:12 <Zakim> 4. New Pull requests [from Joshue108]
14:52:21 <AWK> +AWK
14:52:39 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:52:39 <Zakim> Present: AWK
14:56:48 <JF> JF has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:57 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #WAI-WCAG
14:57:07 <JF> Present+ JF
14:58:02 <Joshue108> present+ Josh
14:58:07 <kirkwood> present+kirkwood
14:58:30 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
14:59:31 <Joshue108> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:59:31 <Zakim> Present: AWK, JF, Josh, kirkwood
15:00:09 <laura> laura has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:12 <Joshue108> Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:01:02 <alastairc> alastairc has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:52 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:56 <Greg> Greg has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:12 <kirkwood> JF: waiting for feedback from others, hoping by next week to have something to report
15:03:36 <Sarah_Swierenga> Sarah_Swierenga has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:42 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:42 <kirkwood> scribe:kirkwood
15:04:44 <Sarah_Swierenga> present+ Sarah Swierenga
15:04:51 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC
15:05:03 <Makoto> present+ Makoto
15:05:11 <alastairc> present+ alastairc
15:05:14 <laura> present+ Laura
15:05:23 <KimD> present+ KimD
15:05:54 <allanj> present+
15:06:01 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:06:13 <kirkwood> John Kirkwood scribing
15:06:50 <kirkwood> Sarah can do next week
15:07:07 <kirkwood> Wayne can do week after
15:07:21 <Joshue108> zakim, next item
15:07:21 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Publishing new WCAG edited recommendation" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:07:36 <Joshue108> Scribenick: John Kirkwood
15:08:44 <AWK> survey link?
15:08:59 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
15:09:00 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/NewWCAGEditRec/
15:09:39 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
15:10:04 <kirkwood> Regarding: Current 1.4.3 to 1.4.3.6, any objections to Makoto edits?
15:10:35 <AWK> q+
15:10:45 <Joshue108> ack awk
15:12:07 <MoeKraft> present+ moekraft
15:12:29 <Wayne> present+ Wayne
15:12:58 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:15:42 <kirkwood>  MichaelC:  Working group has approved to progress WCAG 2.0 proposed edited recomendations?
15:16:29 <kirkwood> Joshue: looking for approval for edited recommendation
15:16:59 <kirkwood> No objection to edits published edited recommendation
15:18:07 <kirkwood> RESOLUTION: CFC to go to working group list regarding Mikota’s edit and working group approval
15:18:35 <Joshue108> q?
15:18:41 <kirkwood> zakim, next item
15:18:41 <Zakim> agendum 2. "New draft techniques from Low Vision TF" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:20:06 <kirkwood> Laura: says good on 5
15:20:26 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_Decorative_Icon_Font
15:21:10 <kirkwood> AWK: example using icon font?
15:21:23 <JF> Q+
15:21:49 <kirkwood> Laura: style in example /24 ‘black backward arrow head’
15:22:08 <Joshue108> q?
15:22:46 <kirkwood> AEK: Does unicode symbols count as an icon foNT?
15:23:34 <Joshue108> ack JF
15:23:47 <kirkwood> JF: are we back to square one?
15:24:13 <Greg> q+
15:24:35 <Joshue108> ack greg
15:24:40 <kirkwood> JF: when a symbol is produced from a font family, what do we do then? Its more about getting a clear definition of what we are talking about. It’s aterminology issue.
15:24:41 <Wayne> q+
15:25:28 <kirkwood> Greg: unicode glif app such as accomidtion aids like screen reader. Wher glif desn’t correspond to a unicode standard where problems occur
15:25:54 <AWK> q+
15:25:58 <kirkwood> Accessibility aid won’t have abilty to read when using glifs of other than standrd unicode
15:26:28 <Joshue108> q?
15:26:36 <Joshue108> ack way
15:27:24 <kirkwood> Wayne: thinks gathered together in fonts think one is called ‘awesome’
15:27:56 <kirkwood> Wayne: there are families, things dropped in in unicode, but there are formal fonts.
15:28:08 <Joshue108> http://www.sitepoint.com/introduction-icon-fonts-font-awesome-icomoon/
15:28:14 <kirkwood> JF: not always just visual decoration
15:28:37 <Joshue108> ack awk
15:29:02 <kirkwood> AWK: Addding on to greg saying. Are unicode symbols that assistive technologies do recognize.
15:30:28 <kirkwood> AWK: if using name in unicode they will probaly read a small set of characters s.a. right arrow and left arrow. Can use litigers in in font assign it to a code related to a font. Is a case we should capture
15:30:36 <Joshue108> q?
15:31:08 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:31:08 <kirkwood> Poorly supported characters and icon font should be able to distinguish
15:31:25 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:31:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:31:27 <Joshue108> q?
15:31:33 <kirkwood> Josh: don’t have to do in unicode if we know
15:32:27 <kirkwood> Laura: if expand to include real icon fonts not just unicode. We did this before
15:32:35 <alastairc> Q+
15:32:50 <kirkwood> Joshue: bundle all together or do sperate techniques?
15:32:54 <Joshue108> ack alist
15:32:59 <Joshue108> ack alas
15:33:08 <JF> +1 for separate techniques based on situation
15:33:09 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:33:25 <Wayne> +1 multi technique
15:33:54 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
15:34:05 <kirkwood> Aliastirc: replacing default unicode characters might replace with a different symbol entirely. Could have one technique poss.
15:34:47 <kirkwood> joshue: if we’re confused it may still be confusing...
15:35:03 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Using_a_Decorative_Icon_Font
15:35:40 <kirkwood> Technique 5 using a decorative icon font using unicode fonts have techniques reference other
15:37:03 <kirkwood> Alastair: when specifying icon font, ubut with private use area different issues with mobile and unicode and assitive tech’
15:37:25 <kirkwood> Alastair: important to use aria hidden and aira labels
15:37:50 <Joshue108> q?
15:37:51 <AWK> +! to James but that is still an accessibility support issue
15:38:01 <AWK> s/+!/+1
15:39:17 <Joshue108> q?
15:39:33 <kirkwood> zakim, next item
15:39:33 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Some questions left from previous meeting" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:39:54 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/5April2016_misc/results
15:40:30 <kirkwood> did we finish current survey?
15:41:13 <kirkwood> RESOLUTION: Laura to rework techniques based on working group review
15:41:26 <Joshue108> Editorial changes to Understanding 1.4.3 #177
15:41:51 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/pull/177
15:42:21 <kirkwood> RESOLUTION: accepted editorial changes
15:42:35 <Joshue108> Need to change "Understanding SC 3.3.2" as it does not accurately reflect what the SC says.(related to #164)
15:43:28 <kirkwood> Andrew suggested to remove 3rd paragraph, new example rqts. Greg, to speak to comments
15:44:03 <kirkwood> Greg: new text doesnat’ apply to hyperlinks, doesn’t take into account simple actions like clicks
15:44:39 <AWK> q+
15:45:10 <kirkwood> Greg: some abinguity form require type in a passord, asume original contraols specifically to take input vs controls to display information
15:45:13 <Joshue108> ack awk
15:45:56 <kirkwood> AWK: Is input suggesting that cliking on link is the other form you a re referring to?
15:46:32 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20/minimize-error-cues.html
15:47:02 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/164
15:47:25 <jamesn> it is not linked in the issue
15:47:39 <kirkwood> Greg: changing FC is not on table, not something to deal with right now. ‘When content requires user input.’ nothing in FC would mean?
15:47:58 <kirkwood> AWK: i wouldn t rquire user input as just clicking on a link
15:48:24 <Joshue108> q?
15:50:08 <kirkwood> Greg: typing and that distintion making a point about reality of selecting an itme in a list is just as much aentering data as typing into a tect bos.  From my perspective user input is very borad. My reading and UAG working group doesn’t match intent of WCAG working group.
15:50:40 <AWK> s/borad/broad
15:50:54 <AWK> s/aentering/as entering
15:51:05 <AWK> s/tect bos/text box
15:51:23 <AWK> s/UAG working/UAAG working
15:52:49 <kirkwood> Greg: relunctant to hold up process due to my concerns. Having not worked on document for quite a few yeard. I am concerned that the document doesnt acutlly math FC in my reading. I fyou want to work on revise understanding based on an outsiders reading of the FC I’d do that as well
15:53:14 <David> q+
15:53:33 <AWK> q+
15:54:07 <Joshue108> ack david
15:54:08 <kirkwood> AWK: content is usually stuff that is just there, greg do you have objection with what Andrew is suggesting
15:54:31 <kirkwood> David: in wcag when think about content all lthings on page is considered contgent
15:54:31 <Joshue108> ack awk
15:54:54 <kirkwood> s/contgent/content
15:55:02 <jamesn> q+
15:56:20 <kirkwood> AWK: concerning that the whole point is to provide a lear label. It should be associated with content. There are situations where text alludes to 3.3.2 you’ve got differnet options. Interested in others reading on this.
15:56:24 <JF> Q+
15:56:42 <Joshue108> ack james
15:57:11 <kirkwood> Jamesn: I was reading it and lot of information 4.1.2 not strictly relevent. In oreder to meat 4.1.2 could do this part but doesn’t meet particular criteria
15:57:21 <Joshue108> ack jf
15:57:47 <kirkwood> JF: lot of private comments in que, what problem are we trying to solve
15:57:59 <AWK> q+
15:58:21 <AWK> ack me
15:58:22 <Joshue108> ack awk
15:58:28 <kirkwood> JF: my concern is that trying to maneuver authors to da a specif way
15:59:00 <Joshue108> q+
15:59:20 <Joshue108> ack me
15:59:39 <kirkwood> AWK:  maybe we should go back to clearly criply identify problem. Feel like he’s I’m happy to get _ opinion
15:59:56 <MoeKraft> q+
15:59:58 <AWK> s/criply/and crisply
16:00:11 <Joshue108> ack moe
16:00:18 <AWK> s/get _/get Sailesh's
16:00:48 <kirkwood> Moe: tkaing look issue 164, wanted to recommend on Feburary 25th posted workd doc may hep us move forward
16:00:54 <MoeKraft> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/164
16:01:17 <AWK> s/oreder to meat/order to meet
16:01:49 <MoeKraft> And Josh has included contents of Sailesh's explanation in the GitHub Thread on 2/29
16:02:42 <kirkwood> Josh: Trying to unserstan quest in succinct in a simple way
16:04:02 <Joshue108> q?
16:04:06 <kirkwood> Joshue: submit new issue and outline and we’ll come back
16:04:20 <kirkwood> RESOLUTION: leave open need more info
16:04:43 <kirkwood> Lack of understanding and need to go back to get
16:04:56 <kirkwood> zakim, next item
16:04:56 <Zakim> agendum 4. "New Pull requests" taken up [from Joshue108]
16:05:27 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
16:05:27 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
16:05:28 <Zakim> 4. New Pull requests [from Joshue108]
16:05:34 <Joshue108> zakim, drop item 4
16:05:34 <Zakim> agendum 4, New Pull requests, dropped
16:05:46 <Joshue108> TOPIC: Remaining survey items from last week
16:05:51 <kirkwood> Joshue; going to continue with remaing survey items from last week
16:05:53 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/5April2016_misc
16:06:04 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/5April2016_misc/results
16:06:25 <Joshue108> Issue 169
16:06:25 <Joshue108> Please review
16:06:40 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/169
16:06:46 <kirkwood> AWK: tried to talk about it las week
16:07:47 <kirkwood> Joshue: james important michael didn’t agree redunday, this could be clearer, James have you thought about this?
16:08:17 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G10.html
16:08:22 <Joshue108> G10: Creating components using a technology that supports the accessibility API features of the platforms on which the user agents will be run to expose the names and roles, allow user-settable properties to be directly set, and provide notification of changes
16:08:23 <kirkwood> James: similar but not redundant what michael says is yue they are bvery simialr but not the smae thing. Going to make it more complicated.
16:08:24 <Wayne> +1 James and Michael
16:08:35 <JF> +1 to James
16:08:39 <kirkwood> Jame; don’t need to spend time wondering aobout this
16:08:51 <Joshue108> G10: Creating components using a technology that supports the accessibility API features of the platforms on which the user agents will be run to expose the names and roles, allow user-settable properties to be directly set, and provide notification of changes
16:08:57 <Joshue108>  Using the accessibility API features of a technology to expose names and roles, to allow user-settable properties to be directly set, and to provide notification of changes
16:09:16 <Joshue108> G135
16:09:29 <kirkwood> James: poorly written example
16:09:35 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/G135.html
16:10:30 <kirkwood> awk: both using accessbility api, both names and roles, in 10 using both. Not sure why created differnetly
16:10:39 <Joshue108> q?
16:11:41 <kirkwood> Joshua: no point in bring all together, if we could work on it . James interested in working on it?
16:11:43 <kirkwood> James: no
16:12:27 <AWK> q+
16:12:36 <kirkwood> AWK: getting rid of techniques is a step backwrs , but removing would remove book makrs provide
16:12:57 <kirkwood> s/ makrs/marks
16:13:47 <kirkwood> g10 has mre fleshed out procedure than 135. Feel 153 is inaducate to meet what is idnetified in title
16:14:06 <kirkwood> AWK: maybe needs a bit of a regrash
16:14:28 <kirkwood> s/regrash /refresh
16:15:05 <Joshue108> q?
16:15:10 <kirkwood> Joshue: more of reason to keep may have value in time
16:15:22 <Joshue108> ack awk
16:16:03 <Wayne> +1 Close and defer
16:16:44 <kirkwood> awk: likely to get deferred and closed later. Working group feel like value in haveing two techniques using acccessibility feature.  Looking for vlunteers to suggest changes to make that happen. We don’t have bandwitdth to work on it right now
16:17:20 <kirkwood> Joshue: why dont we make that a resolution
16:18:04 <kirkwood> MichaelC: looks like eric took on itself to file this, he himself hasn’t engagted in this.
16:18:09 <KimD> +1 to close/defer, accept response
16:18:15 <kirkwood> working group to defer issue no objections
16:18:16 <Sarah_Swierenga> no objections
16:18:32 <kirkwood> RESOLUTION: defer response
16:18:38 <alastairc> no objections, it's java, let us move along
16:18:50 <MoeKraft> +1
16:18:54 <Joshue108> Issue 167
16:19:09 <Joshue108> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/167
16:20:03 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/H91.html
16:20:50 <kirkwood> awk: don’t have a current resoltion for this
16:21:06 <kirkwood> Joshue: up in the air
16:21:19 <AWK> q+
16:22:17 <Joshue108> ack awk
16:22:25 <kirkwood> awk: answer the question of ‘Why do we want to cover this’ an aproch is not change anything
16:22:51 <kirkwood> Joshue: keep it clean and don’t do it right now
16:23:29 <Wayne> q+
16:23:41 <kirkwood> awk: we could use recommendation aria for every technique, I am agreement with what Maichael is saying, I could go ther way
16:23:52 <Joshue108> ack wayne
16:24:02 <kirkwood> wayne: stand alone, aria is aria
16:24:19 <jamesn> now, it does need updating for new HTML input types
16:24:25 <AWK> OTOH ARIA is now allowed by the HTML5 spec
16:25:33 <AWK> ACTION: AWK to look back to see if we added new input types to H91
16:25:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-322 - Look back to see if we added new input types to h91 [on Andrew Kirkpatrick - due 2016-04-26].
16:25:56 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/aria#ARIA14
16:26:02 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/aria#ARIA16
16:26:07 <kirkwood> check input type and see if everything is there. Like using html whenever we can and aria when we cant
16:26:27 <kirkwood> wayne: check input type and see if everything is there. Like using html whenever we can and aria when we cant
16:26:50 <Joshue108> q?
16:27:09 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/TR/aria-in-html/
16:28:09 <JF> ++1 to James
16:28:48 <kirkwood> Joshue: don’t have a desire to do a lot with this. Yes lets arddd aria to page 91?
16:28:49 <JF> Q+
16:28:56 <Joshue108> ack jf
16:29:05 <kirkwood> James: Happy to add related technicques
16:29:40 <AWK> I'm ok with James's suggestion to add related resources and nothing else
16:29:58 <alastairc> +1
16:30:11 <kirkwood> Joshue: option do nothing or add link to aria techniques
16:30:17 <AWK> I'm happy to write a response and add the aria technique references for this and we can survey the change
16:30:24 <marcjohlic> +1 to adding links to ARIA14 and aria16 in Related Techniques
16:30:46 <kirkwood> JF: if we know teniques that esxist why not point to them
16:31:18 <kirkwood> RESOLUTION: link page 91 ith related aria techniques
16:31:26 <Wayne> +1
16:31:54 <laura> laura has left #wai-wcag
16:32:05 <kirkwood> Trackpot,end meeting
16:32:20 <Joshue108> trackbot, end meeting
16:32:20 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:32:20 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AWK, JF, Josh, kirkwood, Sarah, Swierenga, MichaelC, Makoto, alastairc, Laura, KimD, allanj, marcjohlic, moekraft, Wayne, Kathy
16:32:28 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:32:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
16:32:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:32:29 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/19-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
16:32:29 <RRSAgent> ACTION: AWK to look back to see if we added new input types to H91 [1]
16:32:29 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/04/19-wai-wcag-irc#T16-25-33
16:32:34 <kirkwood> trackbot, end meeting
16:32:34 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:32:34 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been AWK, JF, Josh, kirkwood, Sarah, Swierenga, MichaelC, Makoto, alastairc, Laura, KimD, allanj, marcjohlic, moekraft, Wayne, Kathy