IRC log of lvtf on 2016-04-06
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 13:58:13 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
- 13:58:13 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/04/06-lvtf-irc
- 13:58:15 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 13:58:17 [trackbot]
- Zakim, this will be
- 13:58:17 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
- 13:58:18 [trackbot]
- Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
- 13:58:18 [trackbot]
- Date: 06 April 2016
- 13:58:29 [shawn]
- agenda?
- 14:03:05 [shawn]
- Chair: Jim
- 14:03:07 [shawn]
- Present+
- 14:03:12 [shawn]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:03:12 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/06-lvtf-minutes.html shawn
- 14:06:43 [allanj]
- agneda?
- 14:07:28 [shawn]
- agenda?
- 14:08:27 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Legibility and Readability and ???
- 14:08:38 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Issue 34: Scope question
- 14:08:50 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Issue 38: re-word 3.1.1.
- 14:08:57 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Issue 39: color wheel image locations
- 14:09:02 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Issue 40: 3.3.2 fonts
- 14:09:08 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Issue 41 3.3.3 - avoid italics
- 14:09:15 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Issue 42 3.5.1 - poor example illustration
- 14:09:24 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Issue 45 Note to tool developers not a user need - delete or edit?
- 14:09:30 [allanj]
- Agenda+ Issue 43 figure descriptions
- 14:09:54 [shawn]
- agenda 2 = Legibility and Readability and ??? Issue 37: https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/37 draft Note & paragraph https://rawgit.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/user_need-legibility/requirements.html#user-needs
- 14:25:36 [Wayne]
- Wayne has joined #lvtf
- 14:28:15 [JohnRochford]
- JohnRochford has joined #LVTF
- 14:29:29 [ScottM]
- ScottM has joined #lvtf
- 14:30:28 [shawn]
- present+ Jim, Wayne, JohnRockford
- 14:30:34 [shawn]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:30:34 [Zakim]
- Present: shawn, Jim, Wayne, JohnRockford
- 14:31:00 [shawn]
- shawn has changed the topic to: WebEX https://mit.webex.com/mit/e.php?MTID=m865d07f18564023c0b100df85eb0a694 meeting number 649 045 716 password lvtfnow
- 14:31:06 [ScottM]
- Working on getting on the phone
- 14:31:32 [AWK]
- AWK has joined #lvtf
- 14:31:52 [shawn]
- present+AWK
- 14:31:59 [shawn]
- s/Working on getting on the phone//
- 14:32:35 [allanj]
- regrets: Jeanne
- 14:32:37 [shawn]
- present+ScottMcCormack
- 14:33:15 [shawn]
- present+ Alan
- 14:33:20 [AWK]
- +AWK
- 14:33:24 [shawn]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:33:24 [Zakim]
- Present: shawn, Jim, Wayne, JohnRockford, AWK, ScottMcCormack, Alan
- 14:34:11 [AWK]
- present- JohnRockford
- 14:34:20 [AWK]
- present+ JohnRochford
- 14:34:56 [allanj]
- scribe: wayne
- 14:35:38 [Wayne]
- zakim, take up item 1
- 14:35:38 [Zakim]
- agendum 1. "Availability for Upcoming LVTF Teleconferences <https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/81151/LVTF-telecons/>" taken up [from shawn-off]
- 14:36:07 [laura]
- laura has joined #lvtf
- 14:36:57 [JohnRochford_]
- JohnRochford_ has joined #lvtf
- 14:38:50 [laura]
- + Laura
- 14:39:45 [shawn]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 14:39:45 [Zakim]
- Present: shawn, Jim, Wayne, AWK, ScottMcCormack, Alan, JohnRochford, Laura
- 14:39:57 [shawn]
- q+
- 14:40:05 [shawn]
- ack me
- 14:40:53 [allanj]
- close item 1
- 14:41:15 [Wayne]
- zakim, take up item 2
- 14:41:15 [Zakim]
- agendum 2. "Legibility and Readability and ??? Issue 37: https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/37 draft Note & paragraph
- 14:41:17 [Zakim]
- ... https://rawgit.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/user_need-legibility/requirements.html#user-needs" taken up
- 14:41:31 [allanj]
- topic: Legibility
- 14:41:55 [allanj]
- scribe: allanj
- 14:42:33 [allanj]
- wayne: legibility and navigation. Half of user requirements are legibility.
- 14:42:44 [allanj]
- ... 4 points
- 14:43:00 [allanj]
- ... 1 recognize something - eye test
- 14:43:21 [allanj]
- ... 2 acuity limit - can read - lots of errors
- 14:43:49 [allanj]
- ... 3 font - line spacing - read at max speed with few errors
- 14:45:21 [allanj]
- ... 4 duration (fatigue) - read at speed, with few errors, for long time to get work done.
- 14:46:26 [allanj]
- scribe: wayne
- 14:49:15 [shawn]
- draft https://rawgit.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/user_need-legibility/requirements.html#user-needs
- 14:49:24 [shawn]
- the Notes and the paragrpah under it
- 14:50:31 [allanj]
- scott: folks have different triggers for fatigue. how do we provide technical guidance
- 14:50:38 [allanj]
- scribe: allanj
- 14:50:51 [shawn]
- long version: https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/37
- 14:50:55 [allanj]
- shawn: see first paragraph
- 14:51:50 [allanj]
- wayne: legibility based on vision issue and how individuals deal with it
- 14:52:31 [allanj]
- shawn: refine long version as a separate piece.
- 14:52:54 [allanj]
- ... is the note and paragraph sufficient in the requirements?
- 14:53:32 [allanj]
- wayne: note and para are ok
- 14:54:19 [laura]
- https://rawgit.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/user_need-legibility/requirements.html#h-note1
- 14:56:14 [allanj]
- scott: is distinguishing between similarly colored items covered
- 14:56:19 [JohnRochford_]
- +1 to info in section "3. User Needs" being sufficient
- 14:56:45 [allanj]
- wayne: that is covered under element level styling, so user can configure colors
- 14:57:39 [Wayne]
- +1
- 14:57:45 [allanj]
- +1
- 14:57:48 [laura]
- +1
- 14:57:58 [shawn]
- Scott: looks good to me
- 14:57:59 [shawn]
- +1
- 14:58:01 [AWK]
- +1
- 14:58:15 [shawn]
- +1 (possibly with minor copy editing)
- 14:58:24 [shawn]
- Alan: looks good to me
- 14:59:37 [allanj]
- RESOLUTION: Note and para. after covering legibility approved https://rawgit.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/user_need-legibility/requirements.html#h-note1
- 14:59:45 [allanj]
- scribe: wayne
- 14:59:58 [Wayne]
- zakim, close item 2
- 14:59:58 [Zakim]
- agendum 2, Legibility and Readability and ??? Issue 37: https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/37 draft Note & paragraph
- 15:00:00 [Zakim]
- ... https://rawgit.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/user_need-legibility/requirements.html#user-needs, closed
- 15:00:00 [Zakim]
- I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:00:00 [Zakim]
- 3. Issue 34: Scope question [from allanj]
- 15:00:06 [shawn]
- https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/34
- 15:00:09 [Wayne]
- zakim, take up item 3
- 15:00:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 3. "Issue 34: Scope question" taken up [from allanj]
- 15:00:19 [allanj]
- Topic: Scope Issue 34
- 15:01:29 [AWK]
- q+
- 15:01:45 [Wayne]
- allenj: There are many definitions of electronic content. Do we make one.
- 15:01:56 [shawn]
- q+
- 15:02:00 [shawn]
- ack a
- 15:02:26 [shawn]
- q+ to say web content, elec content, WCAg2ICT
- 15:02:30 [Wayne]
- AWK: every thing will be in the context of WCAG. We should take the WCAG definition.
- 15:02:35 [shawn]
- ack me
- 15:02:35 [Zakim]
- shawn, you wanted to say web content, elec content, WCAg2ICT
- 15:03:17 [Wayne]
- Shawn: There is web content, electronic content (broader than web). We talked about broader than web content.
- 15:03:23 [laura]
- WCAG: content (Web content) defintion: https://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#contentdef
- 15:03:24 [ScottM]
- +1 AWK
- 15:03:44 [allanj]
- -1 to defining 'electronic content'
- 15:03:52 [Wayne]
- ... Do we need to define it. There are lots of reasons not too. Should we not define it.
- 15:04:32 [shawn]
- WCAG2ICT "WCAG... can be applied to non-web Information and Communications Technologies (ICT)"
- 15:04:40 [shawn]
- -1 to defining 'electronic content'
- 15:04:48 [Wayne]
- JohnR: Does it relate to the web of things. Can we define it in that way. it it is connected to the web. Yes/No
- 15:04:58 [jon_avila]
- jon_avila has joined #lvtf
- 15:05:18 [Wayne]
- allenj: Do we not define electronic content and move on.
- 15:06:04 [Wayne]
- RESOLUTION: The group deciided not to define electronic content.
- 15:06:22 [Wayne]
- zakim, close item 3
- 15:06:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 3, Issue 34: Scope question, closed
- 15:06:23 [Zakim]
- I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:06:23 [Zakim]
- 4. Issue 38: re-word 3.1.1. [from allanj]
- 15:06:40 [shawn]
- https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/38
- 15:06:43 [jon_avila]
- present+jon_avila
- 15:07:05 [shawn]
- zakim, who is on the phone?
- 15:07:05 [Zakim]
- Present: shawn, Jim, Wayne, AWK, ScottMcCormack, Alan, JohnRochford, Laura, jon_avila
- 15:08:25 [allanj]
- topic: Issue 38 re-word 3.1.1 brightness vs. contrast
- 15:08:26 [Wayne]
- Shawn: Is being able to increase brightness over all a special low vision need.
- 15:08:54 [jon_avila]
- jon_avila has joined #lvtf
- 15:09:03 [Wayne]
- Scott: We need to say both issues are possible within the spectrum.
- 15:09:57 [Wayne]
- AllenJ: Even when contrast is high, and then they set brightness up. There is a combination of the two.
- 15:10:40 [jon_avila]
- +1
- 15:10:55 [Wayne]
- Scott: For me the brighter the better.
- 15:10:55 [shawn]
- no objection to adding it
- 15:10:57 [laura]
- +1
- 15:11:00 [Wayne]
- +1
- 15:11:15 [Wayne]
- Wayne: For me the dimmer the better.
- 15:11:42 [ScottM]
- We want to drive home that there is a wide spectrum and flexibility is key'
- 15:11:48 [Wayne]
- RESOLUTION: Edit 3.1.1 to include brightness.
- 15:12:24 [allanj]
- allanj has joined #lvtf
- 15:12:29 [Wayne]
- zakim, close item 4
- 15:12:29 [Zakim]
- agendum 4, Issue 38: re-word 3.1.1., closed
- 15:12:30 [Zakim]
- I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:12:30 [Zakim]
- 5. Issue 39: color wheel image locations [from allanj]
- 15:12:38 [shawn]
- https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/39
- 15:13:12 [Wayne]
- AllanJ: The color wheel may be duplicated.
- 15:13:34 [allanj]
- topic: Issue 39: color wheel images
- 15:13:35 [Wayne]
- ... Leave it as is.
- 15:14:11 [Wayne]
- RESOLUTION: Leave the color whels images as is.
- 15:14:35 [Wayne]
- zakim, close item 5
- 15:14:35 [Zakim]
- agendum 5, Issue 39: color wheel image locations, closed
- 15:14:36 [Zakim]
- I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:14:36 [Zakim]
- 6. Issue 40: 3.3.2 fonts [from allanj]
- 15:15:17 [shawn]
- https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/40
- 15:16:09 [Wayne]
- AllenJ: Use of serif fonts and different font families.
- 15:16:14 [ScottM]
- +1 Shawn
- 15:19:50 [shawn]
- q+
- 15:19:59 [allanj]
- s/Allenj/Allanj
- 15:20:00 [shawn]
- q+ to say best practice & comic sans and that's the point
- 15:20:29 [shawn]
- ack me
- 15:20:29 [Zakim]
- shawn, you wanted to say best practice & comic sans and that's the point
- 15:20:32 [allanj]
- http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#font
- 15:20:54 [Wayne]
- Discussion: Use clean fonts. This is similar contrast minimum.
- 15:21:52 [ScottM]
- +1 Shawn
- 15:22:08 [Wayne]
- Shawn: the user can choose for many fonts are variable. A single font might be a best practice.
- 15:22:10 [JohnRochford_]
- +1 to Shawn's last commentary
- 15:22:35 [Wayne]
- Alan: This seems latin letter specific.
- 15:23:20 [Wayne]
- allanJ: I can ping about different alphabets.
- 15:23:45 [ScottM]
- +1 for putting in best practice
- 15:23:46 [shawn]
- s/ the user can choose for many fonts are variable. A single font might be a best practice./The User Need is that people can pick a font that works for them. Making the default font a clean one is a best practice or technique
- 15:23:54 [Wayne]
- ... do we need to change our user needs?
- 15:24:30 [allanj]
- +1 putting this issue in best practice document
- 15:24:34 [JohnRochford_]
- +1 for putting in best practice
- 15:24:34 [Wayne]
- Alan: WCAG 2.0 many things aer tchniques etc.
- 15:24:54 [allanj]
- s/aer/are
- 15:25:28 [ScottM]
- Entering Microsoft license keys
- 15:25:31 [ScottM]
- :)
- 15:25:45 [laura]
- +1 for putting in best practice
- 15:26:09 [JohnRochford_]
- Gotta go, folks. Ciao.
- 15:27:05 [Wayne]
- RESOLUTION: Leave section 3.3.2 as it and cover specific fonts in best practice.
- 15:28:27 [shawn]
- [Wayne presentation for CCLV used APH font - and a lot of people didn't like it. switch to verdana and was better.]
- 15:29:09 [Wayne]
- zakim, close item 6
- 15:29:09 [Zakim]
- agendum 6, Issue 40: 3.3.2 fonts, closed
- 15:29:10 [Zakim]
- I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
- 15:29:10 [Zakim]
- 7. Issue 41 3.3.3 - avoid italics [from allanj]
- 15:29:19 [shawn]
- https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/41
- 15:29:37 [allanj]
- Topic: 3.3.3 Avoid italics Issue 41
- 15:33:35 [Wayne]
- JonA: This should be two items: You should avoid italic and you need to be able to change font style semantically.
- 15:33:45 [ScottM]
- +1 JonA
- 15:34:07 [Wayne]
- ... Style should convey meaning instead of for semantic reasons.
- 15:35:25 [shawn]
- q+
- 15:36:40 [shawn]
- q+ to say 1. comment resolution, 2. style (3.3.3) & element-level points need attention
- 15:36:42 [shawn]
- ack me
- 15:36:42 [Zakim]
- shawn, you wanted to say 1. comment resolution, 2. style (3.3.3) & element-level points need attention
- 15:36:50 [Wayne]
- There are semantic meaning that are assigned to meeaning. italic emphasizes it and bold emphasizes it more. Using something for look alone is confusing and difficult.
- 15:37:19 [Wayne]
- Shawn: Avoind the use of italics when possible.
- 15:37:35 [Wayne]
- ... 3.3.3 needs work.
- 15:37:37 [allanj]
- s/Avoind/Avoid
- 15:37:57 [shawn]
- s/Avoind the use of italics when possible./ /
- 15:38:12 [shawn]
- s/Avoid the use of italics when possible./ /
- 15:38:50 [Wayne]
- RESOLUTION: Leave 3.3.3. Cover italics in best practices.
- 15:38:53 [shawn]
- ack me
- 15:40:22 [shawn]
- q+
- 15:40:50 [allanj]
- wayne: italic for citation or book title. italic usage semantics
- 15:41:12 [shawn]
- open issue for for LVTF comment https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/labels/question
- 15:41:17 [Wayne]
- Shawn: List of open issues see above.
- 15:42:05 [Wayne]
- trackbot, end meeting
- 15:42:05 [trackbot]
- Zakim, list attendees
- 15:42:05 [Zakim]
- As of this point the attendees have been shawn, Jim, Wayne, JohnRockford, AWK, ScottMcCormack, Alan, JohnRochford, Laura, jon_avila
- 15:42:13 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, please draft minutes
- 15:42:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/04/06-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
- 15:42:14 [trackbot]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 15:42:14 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items