13:48:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
13:48:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-lvtf-irc
13:48:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:48:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lvtf
13:48:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
13:48:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:48:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
13:48:12 <trackbot> Date: 30 March 2016
13:57:58 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
13:58:28 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
13:58:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
13:58:43 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
13:59:29 <allanj> Chair: JimA & AndrewK
13:59:52 <allanj> present+ JimA
14:01:09 <allanj> Agenda+ Celebrate publication of FPWD!!!
14:01:10 <allanj> Agenda+ Getting word out about review of FPWD
14:01:12 <allanj> Agenda+ CSUN review
14:01:13 <allanj> Agenda+ LVTF position on contrast requirements for interactive control states
14:01:35 <allanj> zakim, who is here
14:01:35 <Zakim> allanj, you need to end that query with '?'
14:01:39 <allanj> zakim, who is here?
14:01:39 <Zakim> Present: JimA
14:01:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, shawn, allanj, trackbot
14:02:00 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 32: Wording of Incidence
14:02:08 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 33: Wording of Causes of Low Vision
14:02:32 <allanj> Agenda+ Issue 34: Definition of Electronic Content?
14:16:48 <shawn> hummmm
14:17:42 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: meeting number 649 045 716
14:18:48 <shawn> shawn has changed the topic to: WebEX https://mit.webex.com/mit/e.php?MTID=m865d07f18564023c0b100df85eb0a694   meeting number 649 045 716
14:21:34 <laura> laura has joined #lvtf
14:23:43 <shawn> present+
14:29:57 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #LVTF
14:30:46 <erich> erich has joined #lvtf
14:31:58 <Wayne> I cannot get in webex, enter the meeting number?
14:32:00 <shawn> present+ JohnR, Laura, Andrew
14:32:14 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #LVTF
14:32:21 <Wayne> present+ Wayne
14:32:45 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #lvtf
14:32:45 <shawn> present+ Erich
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14:35:09 <shawn> present+ Jeanne
14:35:16 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:35:16 <Zakim> Present: JimA, shawn, JohnR, Laura, Andrew, Wayne, Erich, Jeanne
14:35:30 <laura> Scribe List: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/low-vision-a11y-tf/wiki/Scribe_List
14:35:38 <Wayne> scribe, Wayne
14:35:39 <allanj> zakim, agenda?
14:35:39 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda:
14:35:40 <Zakim> 1. Celebrate publication of FPWD!!! [from allanj]
14:35:40 <Zakim> 2. Getting word out about review of FPWD [from allanj]
14:35:40 <Zakim> 3. CSUN review [from allanj]
14:35:41 <Zakim> 4. LVTF position on contrast requirements for interactive control states [from allanj]
14:35:41 <Zakim> 5. Issue 32: Wording of Incidence [from allanj]
14:35:41 <Zakim> 6. Issue 33: Wording of Causes of Low Vision [from allanj]
14:35:42 <Zakim> 7. Issue 34: Definition of Electronic Content? [from allanj]
14:35:43 <JohnRochford> Present +
14:35:47 <AWK> +AWK
14:36:00 <AWK> Present+ JohnRochford
14:36:04 <Wayne> zakim, open item 1
14:36:04 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Celebrate publication of FPWD!!!" taken up [from allanj]
14:36:05 <shawn> scribe:Wayne
14:36:56 <AWK> Jim: yay
14:36:57 <Wayne> zakim, next item
14:36:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 was just opened, Wayne
14:36:59 <ScottMcCormack> ScottMcCormack has joined #lvtf
14:37:14 <AWK> zakim, close item 1
14:37:14 <Zakim> agendum 1, Celebrate publication of FPWD!!!, closed
14:37:15 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:37:15 <Zakim> 2. Getting word out about review of FPWD [from allanj]
14:37:42 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 2
14:37:42 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Getting word out about review of FPWD" taken up [from allanj]
14:37:44 <ScottMcCormack> I can't get the phone number or webex links to work
14:38:12 <shawn> s/I can't get the phone number or webex links to work/ /
14:38:38 <Wayne> Jim: There was a session on LV at CSUN. The people at the CSUN did not know about our FPWD. Getting the word out. Spread it around to other groups.
14:38:49 <JohnRochford> q+
14:39:32 <Wayne> Shawn: EO's dance card is full.
14:39:51 <shawn> ack j
14:40:17 <ScottMcCormack> webex is asking for a meeting password
14:40:27 <Wayne> Jim: The deadline is short April 15, but we will take comments as long as we need.
14:41:08 <Wayne> Shawn: We point to the official site, or the editors draft.
14:41:13 <laura> +q
14:41:20 <Wayne> JohnR: Maybe we could point to both.
14:41:30 <shawn> e-mail announcements with both links: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ig/2016JanMar/0174.html
14:41:33 <Wayne> Laura: We can announce it to WCAG.
14:41:41 <shawn> approved version: https://www.w3.org/TR/low-vision-needs/
14:42:16 <shawn> Editor's Darft (more updated): http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html
14:42:22 <Wayne> Andrew: We have talked about it at the call. Michael did forward it to the list. We will evangelize it.
14:42:24 <shawn> ack l
14:43:25 <Wayne> Shawn: WCAG WG has approved its publishing.
14:43:26 <shawn> s/Darft/Draft
14:44:19 <shawn> present+ ScottMcCormack
14:45:05 <Wayne> Eric: I
14:45:27 <Wayne> ... IAAP is taking up Low Vision.
14:45:33 <shawn> present+ JonAvila
14:45:54 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #lvtf
14:46:05 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
14:46:09 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
14:46:09 <Zakim> Present: JimA, shawn, JohnR, Laura, Andrew, Wayne, Erich, Jeanne, AWK, JohnRochford, ScottMcCormack, JonAvila, jon_avila
14:46:42 <Wayne> Jim: Welcome Scott McCormack
14:47:29 <Wayne> Sccott: I am from BART and joined from an invite from Jon A.
14:48:09 <Wayne> s/Sccott/Scott/
14:48:09 <allanj> topic: CSUN review
14:48:33 <shawn> zakim, close item 2
14:48:33 <Zakim> agendum 2, Getting word out about review of FPWD, closed
14:48:34 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:48:34 <Zakim> 3. CSUN review [from allanj]
14:48:41 <shawn> zakim, take up next
14:48:41 <Zakim> agendum 3. "CSUN review" taken up [from allanj]
14:49:47 <Wayne> Scott: The group was assembled by Joel Isac. This was to talk about technical aspects. How each applies technology. There was an emphasis on Low Vision in education.
14:50:48 <shawn> Wayne: some panel participants not want to actively participate in TF, yet like the work and want to review doc
14:50:56 <shawn> Scott: grouop is largely non-technical
14:51:14 <shawn> s/grouop/group
14:51:20 <Wayne> Scott: It is not a technical group, but they can give good review.
14:51:43 <shawn> [ plus this document is not technical -- later ones will be more so ]
14:51:43 <Wayne> Jim: People do not have to be technical. We need their pain points.
14:51:46 <shawn> q+
14:52:02 <shawn> ack s
14:52:04 <Wayne> Shawn: This document is not technical.
14:52:59 <shawn> Wayne: setting up conference call w/ CS Council of Low Vision to introduce doc
14:53:04 <Wayne> JohnR: That depends on your point of view. People who know nothing about technology.
14:53:35 <Wayne> Shawn: We want this audience to understand the document. We do want these people to understand this document.
14:54:10 <Wayne> JohnR: I am a proponent of plain language. We need a simple way to explain it.
14:54:12 <shawn> s/We do want these people to understand this document./Even though they're not the primary audience.
14:54:35 <Wayne> Eric: Any thing with a hint of jargon causes some to glaze over.
14:54:37 <shawn> [ we do plan to do a language edit later ]
14:56:08 <Wayne> Scott: We are trying to explain Low Vision and even the aspects of low vision are new to me.
14:57:08 <Wayne> JohmR: Now I am talking about a simplified version of text. One possibility is a simple explanation followed by a more formal explanation.
14:57:28 <shawn> s/JohmR/JohnR
14:57:37 <jeanne> q+ to say Lainey Feingold web site does a good job with it.
14:58:43 <shawn> Wayne: @@
14:59:17 <shawn> ack j
14:59:17 <Zakim> jeanne, you wanted to say Lainey Feingold web site does a good job with it.
14:59:23 <jeanne> http://www.lflegal.com/2016/03/houston-press/#summary
14:59:40 <Wayne> More people are more likely to be familiar  light sensivity than lumins.
15:00:16 <shawn> agenda?
15:00:17 <Wayne> Jeanne: Lainey Feingold does a good job of simplification.
15:00:30 <shawn> zakim, close item 3
15:00:30 <Zakim> agendum 3, CSUN review, closed
15:00:31 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:00:31 <Zakim> 4. LVTF position on contrast requirements for interactive control states [from allanj]
15:00:35 <allanj> topic: Contrast requirements of interactive controls (from WCAG)
15:00:40 <shawn> zakim take up item 4
15:00:46 <shawn> zakim, take up item 4
15:00:46 <Zakim> agendum 4. "LVTF position on contrast requirements for interactive control states" taken up [from allanj]
15:01:27 <allanj> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-low-vision-a11y-tf/2016Mar/0061.html
15:02:00 <Wayne> Andrew: (We are not asking for LVTF necessarily) That would be good, but WCAG seems to have forgotten. I don't know.
15:02:40 <shawn> Wayne: from e-mail, prefernce for all states meeting c ontrast requirements
15:02:59 <shawn> ... have live w/ hover being poor contrast, but would rather not.
15:03:17 <shawn> s/have live w/can live w
15:04:00 <Wayne> Jim: We have five members commented. Do you think the five could get together and look into this issue?
15:04:13 <jon_avila> q?
15:05:25 <laura> +q
15:05:36 <jon_avila> q+
15:05:38 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #lvtf
15:05:44 <shawn> ack laura
15:05:54 <Wayne> Scott: In an ideal world all would be high contrast. An absolute requirement is that any state is read should have contrast.
15:06:27 <Wayne> Laura: The only pause, is the difficulty is the claime of difficulty finding colors.
15:07:18 <Wayne> Andrew: If you have a focus color one can use the focus color.If there is a use canse whaere hover needs to be different maybe.
15:08:11 <shawn> ack j
15:08:24 <Wayne> Joh: Most people say hover and focus. The only difference is active. Unless there is a important. Recommend focus and hover.
15:08:40 <shawn> proposal: focus & hover need to meet requirement. active does not
15:08:41 <jon_avila> q?
15:08:50 <Wayne> Andrew: We have a use case for focus and hover.
15:09:17 <Wayne> Jim: In the past IE used a different interpretation.
15:09:28 <Wayne> Scott: Will check.
15:11:07 <Wayne> Andrew: I will write up a resolution for focus and hover, and will pass it around.
15:11:08 <shawn> s /Joh:/JonA:
15:11:16 <Wayne> zakim, next topic
15:11:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'next topic', Wayne
15:11:44 <AWK> RESOLUTION: AWK to modify text of TF recommendation on focus and hover state contrast and send to TF mailing list, to be then forwarded to WCAG
15:11:54 <AWK> Zakim, next item
15:11:54 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Issue 32: Wording of Incidence" taken up [from allanj]
15:12:00 <Wayne> +1
15:12:35 <shawn> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/32
15:12:36 <allanj> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/32
15:13:22 <Wayne> Jim: we are working on rephrasing.
15:14:18 <AWK> q+
15:15:10 <Wayne> Shawn: If we 86% if we added the 14% are blind. Would that meet the point of Denis but keep it shorter.
15:16:10 <Wayne> Andrew: My only concerned. Make sure our mathematics is correct.
15:16:45 <Wayne> JohnR: In the back of my mind I was thinking world wide.
15:17:18 <Wayne> Jim: We have that right.
15:17:39 <Wayne> Shawn: We need a fact check. Is this how we want to present it.
15:18:08 <Wayne> ... Denis wants to make it clear that there are more LV than Blind.
15:18:38 <Wayne> Andrew: It puts is in appearing to set up a priority game.
15:18:57 <shawn> q?
15:19:00 <allanj> +1
15:19:01 <shawn> ack a
15:19:03 <Wayne> ... I worry about wanting to overemphasize the point.
15:19:35 <Wayne> JohnR: Denis is there any reason to say this percent is color blind.
15:20:07 <Wayne> Jim: It is not official low vision.
15:21:02 <Wayne> Shawn: Can we get across the idea that it is prevalent without  saying it is more important.
15:21:29 <JohnRochford> +1 to representation by percentages
15:21:42 <allanj> +1 percentage
15:21:47 <laura> +1
15:21:51 <shawn> +1 to both percents (and not 6 times)
15:22:31 <ScottM> ScottM has joined #lvtf
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15:22:36 <shawn> ACTION: Jim do fact check on "(WHO) estimates that there are 246 million people worldwide who have low vision and 39 million people are blind, indicating that generally 16% of people with visual impairments are blind and 84% have low vision."
15:22:37 <trackbot> Created ACTION-44 - Do fact check on "(who) estimates that there are 246 million people worldwide who have low vision and 39 million people are blind, indicating that generally 16% of people with visual impairments are blind and 84% have low vision." [on Jim Allan - due 2016-04-06].
15:22:39 <alan_smith> Joining late
15:22:53 <shawn> present+ Alan_Smith
15:23:07 <alan_smith> + on percentages for a business case statistic
15:23:42 <shawn> Wayne: lots of people with low vision feel left out. solutions for blind are expected to meet low vision, but don't
15:24:56 <allanj> zakim, take up next item
15:24:56 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Issue 33: Wording of Causes of Low Vision" taken up [from allanj]
15:25:00 <shawn> https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/33
15:25:21 <allanj> Topic: Causes of Low Vision
15:25:42 <JohnRochford> Got to go, folks. Ciao.
15:26:08 <AWK> AWK just sent updated wording on focus/hover to LVTF list
15:27:28 <Wayne> Andrew: There is difficulty with defect. There is a concern about not noting the icrease in age related low vision.
15:28:45 <shawn> Wayne: in places where correction is available, about 1/2 is age-related
15:29:19 <shawn> ACTION: Shawn follow up with DEnis on https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/33
15:29:19 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Follow up with denis on https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/33 [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-04-06].
15:30:38 <allanj> close item 6
15:31:27 <Wayne> Eric: A question came in about SVG that include text. Can we include this as an agenda item.
15:31:55 <Wayne> Andrew: This should be in the success criteria.
15:32:08 <allanj> jonA: may be issues with changing color, css
15:32:25 <allanj> perhaps there is a use case
15:32:48 <allanj> shawn: maybe an example for getting information from images
15:32:51 <Wayne> Jon: Does this meet images of text. You can resize but changes to font and color are not addressed.
15:33:15 <laura> bye
15:33:23 <Wayne> trackbot, end meeting
15:33:23 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
15:33:23 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been JimA, shawn, JohnR, Laura, Andrew, Wayne, Erich, Jeanne, AWK, JohnRochford, ScottMcCormack, JonAvila, jon_avila, Alan_Smith
15:33:28 <laura> laura has left #lvtf
15:33:31 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:33:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
15:33:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
15:33:32 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-lvtf-actions.rdf :
15:33:32 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Jim do fact check on "(WHO) estimates that there are 246 million people worldwide who have low vision and 39 million people are blind, indicating that generally 16% of people with visual impairments are blind and 84% have low vision." [1]
15:33:32 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-lvtf-irc#T15-22-36
15:33:32 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shawn follow up with DEnis on https://github.com/w3c/low-vision-a11y-tf/issues/33 [2]
15:33:32 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-lvtf-irc#T15-29-19