15:49:07 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
15:49:07 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-irc
15:49:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:49:09 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #apa
15:49:11 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
15:49:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
15:49:12 <trackbot> Meeting: Accessible Platform Architectures Working Group Teleconference
15:49:13 <trackbot> Date: 30 March 2016
15:49:18 <janina> zakim, agenda?
15:49:18 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:49:23 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
15:49:23 <janina> agenda+ Web Payments Teleconference Reminder -- Shane, Janina
15:49:23 <janina> agenda+ CSUN Highlights -- Open Discussion
15:49:23 <janina> agenda+ CSS Progress -- Rich, Cynthia, Michael, Leonie
15:49:24 <janina> agenda+ W3C Spec Styling Issues -- Michael
15:49:25 <janina> agenda+ Actions Procedure Tweaks -- Janina, Michael
15:49:28 <janina> agenda+ Actions Review (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8
15:49:30 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
15:49:33 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
15:49:35 <janina> agenda+ next and future meetings
15:49:38 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:51:51 <janina>  chair: Janina
15:51:59 <janina> zakim, next item
15:51:59 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
15:57:43 <janina> present+ Janina
15:58:23 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
16:00:04 <fesch> fesch has joined #apa
16:03:44 <Gottfried> Gottfried has joined #apa
16:05:58 <MichielBijl> present+ Michiel_Bijl
16:06:08 <fesch> present+ fesch
16:08:12 <Rich> Rich has joined #apa
16:09:41 <fesch> text/list
16:10:09 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC
16:11:02 <janina> janina has changed the topic to:   APA Teleconference; Wednesday 30 March
16:12:16 <Gottfried> scribe: me
16:12:26 <Gottfried> scribe: Gottfried
16:13:19 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:13:19 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Web Payments Teleconference Reminder -- Shane, Janina" taken up [from janina]
16:14:03 <Gottfried> Janina: We have committed to work on a review as a subteam.  Next Mon at 1pm EDT. 3 people have signed up. Others are welcome to join.
16:14:12 <Gottfried> zakim, close item
16:14:12 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close item', Gottfried
16:14:18 <Gottfried> zakim, close this item
16:14:18 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
16:14:20 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:14:20 <Zakim> 3. CSUN Highlights -- Open Discussion [from janina]
16:14:25 <Gottfried> zakim, open next item
16:14:25 <Zakim> agendum 3. "CSUN Highlights -- Open Discussion" taken up [from janina]
16:15:15 <Gottfried> Janina: Really hot braille display...
16:15:57 <Gottfried> Rich: Pearson working on an editor for digital math, supports braille displays. Awesome.
16:16:33 <Gottfried> ... If the user can navigate a math equation via keyboard, math understanding increases by 10-15%.
16:17:24 <Gottfried> Janina: American Printing House & NFB cooperation for braille display.
16:17:44 <Gottfried> ... Will be much cheaper than current devices, about $500.
16:18:27 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:18:27 <Zakim> agendum 4. "CSS Progress -- Rich, Cynthia, Michael, Leonie" taken up [from janina]
16:21:09 <Gottfried> Rich: We asked them to deal with the interop issue, e.g. flex box, content injection. If it doesn't support accessibility, WCAG people will be forced to mark this technology as not accessible.
16:21:28 <Gottfried> ... Then it comes back to you - why didn't you make this accessible?
16:22:49 <Gottfried> ... Met with Rosson and Bogdan, CSS co-chair. Interop spec for CSS. Can we work on this together? How do we staff it? - Was a good meeting.
16:23:31 <Gottfried> Michael: Called "CSS accessibility API mapping spec". Best practices doc is needed.  They had agreed to work on this in the past.
16:24:45 <Gottfried> ... They told us it would be helpful to provide test cases demonstrating the concerns.  We also talked of solving the navigation problem.  Need to take a look at this from a broader perspective, across technologies (HTML, CSS, SVG).
16:25:28 <Gottfried> ... For flex-box issues and similar layout issues, we need the navigation problem solved. But cannot be done quickly. We might not be able to close this work before they close the specs.
16:25:59 <Gottfried> ... Joint tf between APA and CSS wgs? If CSS doesn't support this, we could create a CSS focus group ourselves.
16:26:29 <Gottfried> Janina: Who could do this?
16:26:51 <Gottfried> Michael: Cynthia? Bogdan?
16:27:27 <Gottfried> ... We need to help them understand the issues and to solve them.  We need to provide resources for this.
16:27:44 <Gottfried> Janina: How can we make them understand the problem?
16:28:01 <Gottfried> Michael: Test cases.
16:28:26 <Gottfried> ... CSS flex-box is implemented, and we can easily demonstrate the problem.
16:29:05 <Gottfried> Janina: Maybe Matt is interested in this?
16:29:34 <Gottfried> Rich: The a11y tree needs to be reordered. With that they did not have an issue.
16:30:55 <Gottfried> ... They were reluctant to deal with keyboard tab index issues. They want tab index modifications be done by the author.  Might be less problematic than restructuring the DOM. But the solution for tab index requires positive integers to change order. Very brittle solution. We need to go back and look at kb navigation again, also other types of input.
16:31:45 <Gottfried> ... Similar issues with SVG, directional navigation - not possible with tab index. Feature in XHTML was to build a link chain for focus navigation.  We need to bring back this concept back.
16:32:09 <MichaelC> q+
16:33:07 <MichaelC> ack me
16:33:09 <Gottfried> Michael: I was referencing most of what you said. We keep referring to other groups to solve the problem.
16:33:53 <Gottfried> ... Rough plan was to start now with CSS a11y API mapping. Navigation issues need to be addressed likely in a separate document.
16:34:10 <Gottfried> ... Still need the people to work on this
16:34:40 <Gottfried> Janina: Still concerned about whether CSS and other graphics people are fully convinced about what we talk about is a real problem.
16:35:05 <Gottfried> ... We need to illustrate the problem in a couple of test pages.
16:35:20 <Gottfried> Michael: Issue of generated content not being exposed is already illustrated.
16:35:50 <Gottfried> Fred: Talk to Matt and Brian?
16:36:02 <MichaelC> s/Brian/Bryan/
16:36:33 <Gottfried> ... Show them how it impacts the user.  Need the personal user experience and awareness of the issue.
16:36:50 <Gottfried> Michael: Walk them through a demo file rather than just talking.
16:37:36 <Gottfried> Janina: We can invite Bryan.
16:38:21 <Gottfried> ... Next steps are to draw Matt and/or Bryan into another conversation.
16:38:33 <Gottfried> Michael: Cynthia should be involved as well.  Also ARIA wg.
16:38:52 <Gottfried> ... Session in ARIA group on CSS.
16:39:05 <Gottfried> Rich: Right now, don't have any room on our plates.
16:40:03 <Gottfried> Michael: Suggest Cynthia starts the mapping, and ARIA should be informed that this would become a deliverable of them.
16:40:27 <Gottfried> Rich: No time right now at all in ARIA, until ARIA advances.
16:40:56 <Gottfried> Michael: Fair enough. What can we do on this from an APA perspective?
16:41:20 <Gottfried> ... Can we take this up in APA?
16:42:06 <Gottfried> Janina: How can we avoid going silent on this? Let me see if we can talk with Matt and Cynthia next week. First step would be to demonstrate the issues.
16:42:27 <Gottfried> ... Put together some illustrations to keep activity happening.
16:42:39 <Gottfried> Michael: Rosson was saying he would come back to this group.
16:42:49 <Gottfried> ... Willing to talk to us by end of this week.
16:43:29 <Gottfried> ... Should also inform WAI coordination committee (or similar name).
16:43:40 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:43:40 <Zakim> agendum 5. "W3C Spec Styling Issues -- Michael" taken up [from janina]
16:44:03 <Gottfried> Janina: What is left over?
16:44:28 <Gottfried> Michael: People weren't surprised by the styles. We need to sort out problems over time.
16:44:55 <Gottfried> ... In theory, they want to revise the styles annually.  Both an opportunity to get improvements in next time, but also obligation to check things out next year.
16:45:18 <Gottfried> Gottfried: Is there a process for us to check their styles before they go public?
16:45:34 <Gottfried> Michael: Yes, there is a process. We missed it this time - wasn't well coordinated.
16:45:54 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:45:54 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Actions Procedure Tweaks -- Janina, Michael" taken up [from janina]
16:46:19 <MichaelC> s/wasn't well coordinated/wasn't well coordinated on our end/
16:46:50 <Gottfried> Janina: How can we work with our actions more cleanly?
16:47:06 <Gottfried> ... Suggest to make the action item reviews simply as pending/done etc.
16:47:32 <Gottfried> ... If people have finished their action items, they should send a message to the group, and i will then take it up for the agenda of the next meeting.
16:48:01 <Gottfried> Gottfried: Good suggestion. Email with action item number gets recorded in the system.
16:48:19 <Gottfried> Michael: People need to remember this.
16:48:50 <Gottfried> Gottfried: Send automatic reminders?
16:49:47 <Gottfried> Michael: Not a feature as far as i know. Could send a feature request. Also can get ennoying for authors.
16:50:05 <Gottfried> Gottfried: Send an automatic email when the action item is created?
16:50:15 <Gottfried> Michael: Yes, we can make this setting.
16:50:22 <Gottfried> Janina: Good suggestion
16:50:25 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:50:25 <Zakim> agendum 7. "Actions Review (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/products/8" taken up [from janina]
16:51:03 <Gottfried> action-2019?
16:51:03 <trackbot> action-2019 -- Fred Esch to Review css fragmentation module level 3 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-break-3/ -- due 2016-03-16 -- OPEN
16:51:03 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2019
16:51:15 <Gottfried> Fred: Same issues as other CSS specs.
16:51:40 <Gottfried> ... Did an update on this.
16:51:44 <MichaelC> close action-2019
16:51:44 <trackbot> Closed action-2019.
16:51:50 <Gottfried> action-2016?
16:51:50 <trackbot> action-2016 -- Michiel Bijl to Review clipboard api and events http://www.w3.org/tr/clipboard-apis/ -- due 2016-03-16 -- OPEN
16:51:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2016
16:52:34 <Gottfried> Michiel: I have sent an issue to them. We can now close this action.
16:52:43 <Gottfried> Michael: Should we wait for the response before we close it?
16:52:52 <MichielBijl> https://github.com/w3c/clipboard-apis/issues/26
16:53:38 <Gottfried> Michiel: They have replied.
16:53:55 <MichaelC> close action-2016
16:53:56 <trackbot> Closed action-2016.
16:54:21 <Gottfried> ... Spec should be focused on what happens between browser and JavaScript.  Issue is regarded as off-topic.
16:54:33 <Gottfried> Michael: Can we put this on the agenda of next week?
16:55:05 <Gottfried> zakim, next item
16:55:05 <Zakim> agendum 8. "new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html" taken up [from janina]
16:55:36 <Gottfried> Michael: There are 14 specs we haven't look at yet
16:55:45 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ CSS Object Model (CSSOM)
16:56:28 <Gottfried> Michael: Wondering if it is just a DOM for CSS. Maybe not so important for us.  Do we need to look at this?
16:56:35 <Gottfried> Fred: I will look at this.
16:57:37 <Gottfried> ACTION: fresch to review CSS Object Model (CSSOM) https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13.
16:57:37 <trackbot> Error finding 'fresch'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/users>.
16:57:49 <MichaelC> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/css-snappoints-1/ CSS Scroll Snap Points Module Level 1
16:57:57 <Gottfried> ACTION: fesch to review CSS Object Model (CSSOM) https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13.
16:57:58 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2020 - Review css object model (cssom) https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. [on Fred Esch - due 2016-04-06].
16:59:25 <Gottfried> ACTION: MichaelC to review CSS Scrolll Snap Points Module Level 1 https://www.w3.org/TR/css-snappoints-1/.
16:59:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2021 - Review css scrolll snap points module level 1 https://www.w3.org/tr/css-snappoints-1/. [on Michael Cooper - due 2016-04-06].
16:59:41 <MichaelC> action-2020?
16:59:41 <trackbot> action-2020 -- Fred Esch to Review css object model (cssom) https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. -- due 2016-04-06 -- OPEN
16:59:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/2020
16:59:43 <MichaelC> action-2020 due 2 weeks
16:59:43 <trackbot> Set action-2020 Review css object model (cssom) https://www.w3.org/tr/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. due date to 2016-04-13.
17:00:33 <Gottfried> zakim, bye
17:00:33 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Janina, Joanmarie_Diggs, Michiel_Bijl, fesch, MichaelC
17:00:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
17:00:37 <Gottfried> actions?
17:01:25 <Gottfried> rrsagent, make log member
17:01:48 <Gottfried> rrsagent, remove action 1
17:01:48 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'remove action 1', Gottfried.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
17:02:24 <Gottfried> rrsagent, drop action 1
17:02:31 <Gottfried> actions?
17:02:50 <Gottfried> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:02:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-minutes.html Gottfried
17:28:35 <Rich> Rich has joined #apa
18:07:57 <Rich> Rich has joined #apa
18:27:03 <Rich> Rich has joined #apa
18:40:46 <Rich> Rich has joined #apa
18:55:18 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make log world
18:55:20 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
18:55:20 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-actions.rdf :
18:55:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: fesch to review CSS Object Model (CSSOM) https://www.w3.org/TR/cssom-1/ by 2016-04-13. [2]
18:55:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-irc#T16-57-57
18:55:20 <RRSAgent> ACTION: MichaelC to review CSS Scrolll Snap Points Module Level 1 https://www.w3.org/TR/css-snappoints-1/. [3]
18:55:20 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/30-apa-irc#T16-59-25