14:29:55 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:29:55 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/29-wai-wcag-irc
14:29:57 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:29:57 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:29:59 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:29:59 <Zakim> ok, trackbot
14:30:00 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:30:00 <trackbot> Date: 29 March 2016
14:30:08 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
14:30:08 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:31:18 <Joshue108> agenda+ Any interesting updates from CSUN attendees
14:31:40 <Joshue108> agenda+ Github issues https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues
14:31:51 <Joshue108> Chair: Ad hoc
14:32:08 <Joshue108> Scribe list: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
14:41:22 <Joshue108> agenda+ WCAG.next
14:45:10 <laura> laura has joined #wai-wcag
14:49:14 <Joshue108> agenda+ can we make WCAG better, faster, quicker and shorter?
14:56:10 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:48 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #wai-wcag
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14:59:55 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
14:59:56 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
14:59:56 <Zakim> 1. Any interesting updates from CSUN attendees [from Joshue108]
14:59:56 <Zakim> 2. Github issues https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues [from Joshue108]
14:59:57 <Zakim> 3. WCAG.next [from Joshue108]
14:59:57 <Zakim> 4. can we make WCAG better, faster, quicker and shorter? [from Joshue108]
15:00:30 <Greg> Greg has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:09 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:17 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:18 <Kim> Kim has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:29 <Joshue108> present+ Joshue108
15:01:43 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
15:01:45 <Kim> Present+ Kim Dirks
15:01:54 <Wayne> present+ wayne
15:02:07 <Kirkwood> present+ Kirkwood
15:02:38 <AWK> +AWK
15:02:48 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:58 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:05:12 <Wayne> scribe: Wayne
15:06:19 <AWK> Join WebEx meeting<https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m064eab3e5485b640231a7fe56dc4785c>
15:06:21 <Wayne> zakim, next item
15:06:21 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Any interesting updates from CSUN attendees" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:06:21 <AWK> Meeting number: 642 418 206
15:06:45 <laura> present+ Laura
15:06:51 <David> present+ David
15:07:18 <Joshue108> WD: I have something interesting..
15:07:44 <Joshue108> WD: There was a preso on translating content MathML to Nemeth Braille  etc.
15:08:00 <Joshue108> WD: There is a new standard but that was less important than what was accomplished.
15:08:32 <Joshue108> WD: It could take unified Braille and convert to MathML etc, anyway great work by Sam Dooley.
15:08:51 <Joshue108> WD: It means students can take Maths notes in class in Braille, excellent.
15:09:02 <Joshue108> q?
15:10:26 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Main_Page/DesigningWCAG2.next
15:11:13 <laura> Minutes of WCAG.Next meeting at CSUN: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2016JanMar/0403.html
15:11:16 <Wayne> Andrew: John led a WCAG.next session; There was a pre-meeting; there are a few models being modeled. See the ideas on the Wiki page; There was a lot of questions; Whatever we do it is easy to read;
15:12:06 <Wayne> ... That is an important point, but the main purpose was to open the discussion. There was another session that talked about task forces and WCAG moving forward.
15:12:20 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
15:12:23 <Wayne> ... There were suggestions for moving forward .
15:12:34 <Ryladog> Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:13:04 <Joshue108> q?
15:13:11 <Wayne> Josh: It was an awareness raising task it was useful; got analysis and suggestions for success criteria.
15:13:33 <Sarah_Swierenga> Sarah_Swierenga has joined #wai-wcag
15:13:43 <Wayne> ... Getting people up to speed is a challenge.
15:14:31 <Sarah_Swierenga> present+ Sarah
15:15:06 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:15:21 <Wayne> Andrew: WCAG 20/20 came up. We hadn't been talking about an item. One possible name . There was some aknowledgement. We've talked about WACAG 20/20.
15:15:54 <Wayne> Josh: Work of mobile TF and its application.  A mobile alone might be enough.
15:16:23 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
15:16:46 <Joshue108> q?
15:16:48 <Joshue108> q+
15:17:20 <jamesn> regrets+ JamesNurthen
15:17:48 <Joshue108> regrets+ Alastair C
15:17:57 <Joshue108> ack me
15:18:07 <Wayne> KatyyW: We're looking technology that challenges with technologies. We have technologies that are not just mobile like touch screen. Those things are not just for one topic. There are gaps with basic technologies.
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15:19:04 <Joshue108> q?
15:19:04 <Wayne> Josh: Roll over with delta between other domains. There is something that carriers over to all. We need to know what those deltas are.
15:20:25 <Wayne> Andrew: There were other sessions on WCAG. There is a certiain amount of impatients with where WCAG is at. Impatient is born out of interest. We need to keep focused on what is needed to be done.
15:20:49 <Joshue108> WD: There was a meeting late Friday on Low Vision.
15:21:07 <Joshue108> WD: Beyond the buzzwords.. people talked about their AT and how they coped.
15:21:22 <Joshue108> WD: What was interesting was that people used a variety of AT.
15:21:28 <Ryladog> 2016 CSUN Recorded Sessions http://curbcut.net/events/csun16-disabilities-technology/
15:21:39 <Joshue108> WD: We also have a new member from SSB Bart in Low Vis TF.
15:21:45 <Joshue108> AWK: Scott McCormack.
15:21:47 <laura> http://www.csun.edu/cod/conference/2016/sessions/index.php/public/presentations/view/337
15:22:00 <Ryladog> One of the speakers on that panel was Joel from JPMC
15:22:12 <Joshue108> WD: I think we will get a lot more reviews of our publications also.
15:22:23 <Joshue108> WD: So a good Low Vision shindig!
15:23:04 <Joshue108> JOC: Thats great.
15:23:15 <Joshue108> WD: We have students and more, I'll be following up on this.
15:23:47 <Joshue108> q?
15:24:21 <Wayne> Josh: Kathy did you get any feed back and new people to offer feed back. Found a few new people who wanted to join.
15:25:39 <Joshue108> q?
15:26:29 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
15:27:16 <Wayne> Kathy: I learned things in general. Companies seem to be hiring people to head accessibility. There is going to be a huge demand for executive training.  Hiring externally occured. Reccommendation: what ever we decide do do is to prevent people from panicing.
15:28:02 <Wayne> ... The have a delay to a fiew years. Organizations that will fear change.
15:28:11 <Joshue108> q?
15:28:59 <Wayne> ... Let's say you have a legal requirement that prevents them from a transition. What they could  choose to do is adopt new features as best practices.
15:30:56 <Wayne> Josh: Was there anything about talk about policy... was there a sense of fear. We cannot adjust to this at this time.
15:32:35 <Wayne> Kathy: if we make change in a measured way. There is really good opportunity to deal with this change. People who are not in the legal arena are not frightened.
15:32:57 <Joshue108> Dont fear the kittens of legislation.
15:33:23 <Joshue108> WD: The legal community can go around 508 anytime, and reference directly the ADA.
15:34:17 <Joshue108> WD: I'm a little surprised by that comment, as its useful to show they dont have access. If it can be demonstrated there is an issue under the ADA in the first place.
15:34:20 <Joshue108> q?
15:35:03 <Joshue108> WD: You can pass WCAG but if they can demostrate that in some nvironments they can't use a UI, even if you are conformant it doesn't matter.
15:35:17 <Joshue108> AWK: But the DOJ reference WCAG 2.0 as the resolution?
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15:35:53 <Joshue108> WD: If you are a federal empoyee, and if you can demonstrate a functional fail then previous WCAG conformance status doesn't matter.
15:35:58 <Joshue108> q?
15:36:21 <Mike_Elledge> q+
15:36:40 <Joshue108> JK: I concur with that.
15:36:59 <Joshue108> WD: It has to be something pretty gross and there are not many potential fails, but it can happen.
15:37:05 <Joshue108> ack mike
15:38:00 <Wayne> Mike: I think suites have been gross things. I'm not sure if that has happened yet.
15:38:17 <Joshue108> WD: Thats something we should just bear in mind...
15:38:29 <Joshue108> WD: That people can go beyond this framework.
15:38:39 <laura> Legal Settlement Agreements That Reference WCAG 2.0:
15:38:41 <laura> http://www.d.umn.edu/~lcarlson/wcagwg/settlements/
15:39:32 <Wayne> Josh: that is practical. Then it is reasonable that if they can be demonstrated if they are incapacitated.
15:39:53 <Wayne> Kathy: There are a number of settlements that reference WCAG.
15:40:00 <Joshue108> LC: There are a number of legal settlements that reference WCAG.
15:40:03 <Joshue108> q?
15:41:00 <Wayne> Josh: See if people go a sense that we can talk about a new WCAG. It doesn't mean that we can talk about this. Fear of legislation.
15:41:02 <David> q+
15:41:40 <Wayne> Andrew: There is much more discussion around direct intrest.
15:41:46 <Joshue108> ack dav
15:44:18 <AWK> regrets+ Sarah_Horton
15:44:42 <Wayne> David: Lots of thoughts. Do we feel that we want to move past.. We build the new bridge with task forces and then put a new standard forward.
15:45:53 <Wayne> Josh: regarding the issue of TF progress. This is a 2.1. 3.0 is difference because of UAAG and ATAG. UAAG would take the lions share.
15:45:55 <Joshue108> q?
15:46:23 <Wayne> David: Extension then look at UAAG + ATAG.
15:47:03 <Joshue108> WD: I have a question. I'm concerned about Web Components.
15:47:21 <Joshue108> WD: Also the amount of content being carried in CSS.
15:47:41 <Joshue108> WD: And the dearth of semantics for some content.
15:47:53 <Joshue108> WD: That could be an important part of a WCAG 3.0.
15:47:56 <Joshue108> q?
15:48:30 <Joshue108> DMacD: You mean widgets UI stuff?
15:48:57 <Joshue108> WD: There is a lot of roll your own stuff that goes beyond CSS and JS, an we need to think how AT can get to that info.
15:49:02 <Joshue108> q?
15:49:12 <Joshue108> DMacD: Examples?
15:49:59 <Joshue108> WD: The DOM is only one part of HTML5, there are other layers.
15:50:16 <Joshue108> JOC: Point of order, the shadow DOM and the dark web are two different things.
15:50:25 <Joshue108> q?
15:54:30 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
15:54:30 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:54:31 <Zakim> 1. Any interesting updates from CSUN attendees [from Joshue108]
15:54:31 <Zakim> 2. Github issues https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues [from Joshue108]
15:54:31 <Zakim> 3. WCAG.next [from Joshue108]
15:54:32 <Zakim> 4. can we make WCAG better, faster, quicker and shorter? [from Joshue108]
15:54:57 <Wayne> zakim, take up item 3
15:54:57 <Zakim> agendum 3. "WCAG.next" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:55:58 <Joshue108> JOC: WCAG puts the burden on the author, I think a WCAG 3.0 will have the user agent at the centre.
15:56:45 <Wayne> David: If UAAG didn't succeed by itself why wouldn't it succeed at WCAG
15:58:45 <Wayne> Josh: I'm hoping WCAG 3 will be a nexus of author and user agent.
15:59:48 <Wayne> Josh: There is a lot of stuff tha UA can do. it doesn't get center stage. It could be visualization, user access, customization on the fly.
16:00:17 <Wayne> David: How do you get law, government to match it.
16:01:26 <Joshue108> q?
16:01:32 <Wayne> Josh: if you could have a UA that provides maximal accessibility ... it would work in government if it was there...
16:02:04 <Wayne> David: How could we get the success...
16:03:06 <Wayne> Josh: we need to get some extensions publish... we need to get some traction... extension model of it will fly...
16:03:09 <Joshue108> q?
16:04:32 <David> +1
16:04:36 <Wayne> Kathy: We have got a touching pointer; the extensions; can we redefine; can we call it the touching pointer; call them as to what they are addressing.
16:04:39 <Joshue108> +1
16:04:44 <Wayne> +1
16:04:49 <laura> +1
16:04:49 <Greg> +1
16:04:51 <MoeKraft> 1+
16:04:56 <Sarah_Swierenga> +1
16:04:58 <Kirkwood> +1
16:05:42 <Wayne> Josh: publishing candidate the critieria based on need rathere than on the group.
16:05:47 <Joshue108> q?
16:06:15 <Joshue108> WD: I have one too, the ability to present content in single column format.
16:06:26 <Joshue108> WD: We can do that on now easily on small devices.
16:08:34 <Wayne> Kathy: Mobile has it's guidelines proposed; we want to bring it to the working group; There are some that are related to equal access; touch is not really covered... ignore numbering...how will it fit into a new wcang
16:08:47 <Wayne> s/wcang/WCAG/
16:09:46 <Wayne> Josh: You don't mean how WCAG applies to mobile.
16:10:26 <Joshue108> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/
16:10:35 <Wayne> Kathy: It is a work in progress... It does outline our thinking.
16:10:43 <David> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/
16:12:06 <Wayne> Kathy: We wanted to bring it up to date regarding touching pointer. We wanted our reasing... it would be great to get feedback from the working group.
16:12:31 <Wayne> Josh: could working group review be in the next few weeks.
16:12:39 <Joshue108> q?
16:12:46 <Wayne> David: We are close to presenting something.
16:13:26 <Joshue108> ACTION: Kathy W to prepare Mobile A11y WCAG Extension for WG review http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/
16:13:27 <trackbot> Created ACTION-320 - W to prepare mobile a11y wcag extension for wg review http://w3c.github.io/mobile-a11y-extension/ [on Kathleen Wahlbin - due 2016-04-05].
16:13:32 <Wayne> Kathy: If we could get this to the working group
16:14:34 <Wayne> David: Getting techniques has been the real issue.  If we could use technique place holder.
16:14:42 <Joshue108> q?
16:15:02 <Wayne> ... Lumber Jacks techniques...
16:15:31 <Joshue108> ACTION: DavidMacD to link in with EO for the creation of techniques for Mobile A11y WCAG Extenison doc
16:15:31 <trackbot> Error finding 'DavidMacD'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/users>.
16:15:40 <Joshue108> ACTION: David to link in with EO for the creation of techniques for Mobile A11y WCAG Extenison doc
16:15:40 <trackbot> 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dmacdona, dsloan).
16:15:46 <Wayne> David: Look at all the extensions, look at all the conflicts.
16:16:27 <Joshue108> WD: Low Vision got started later.
16:16:35 <Joshue108> WD: We need a feedback round on the user needs.
16:16:51 <Joshue108> WD: Before we get into writing SCs etc.
16:17:25 <Joshue108> WD: We have a lot of ground covered.
16:17:35 <Joshue108> WD: We need users with low vision readng them as possible.
16:17:45 <Joshue108> WD: We need users with tech ability.
16:17:56 <laura> Accessibility Requirements for People with Low Vision: https://www.w3.org/TR/low-vision-needs/
16:18:08 <Joshue108> WD: To cover things like how a user will react to elements, nerdy stuff.
16:18:16 <Joshue108> DMacD: How about one on ones
16:18:37 <Joshue108> WD: Good idea, also rather than get people sign up as TF members, you could have people come to meeting?
16:18:56 <Joshue108> DMacD: People can collaborate.
16:20:13 <Joshue108> WD: We need feedback on user needs before we start on SCs ideally..
16:20:20 <Joshue108> WD: So it is realistic.
16:21:12 <Joshue108> q?
16:21:38 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
16:22:17 <Joshue108> JOC: When do you think we could have a draft?
16:22:34 <Joshue108> AWK: It doesn't have to take long, I'l talk with Jim.
16:22:39 <Joshue108> AWK: Maybe a couple of months.
16:22:49 <Joshue108> WD: We could do both at the same time.
16:24:16 <Joshue108> q?
16:25:17 <Wayne> rssagent: draft minutes
16:25:33 <Wayne> rssagent, draft minuts
16:25:44 <Wayne> rssagent, draft minutes
16:25:57 <Joshue108> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:25:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/29-wai-wcag-minutes.html Joshue108
16:26:01 <Wayne> trackbot, end meeting
16:26:01 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:26:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Joshue108, Kathy, Kim, Dirks, wayne, Kirkwood, AWK, Laura, David, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Sarah, marcjohlic
16:26:09 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:26:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/29-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
16:26:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:26:10 <RRSAgent> I see 3 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/29-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
16:26:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Kathy W to prepare Mobile A11y WCAG Extension for WG review http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-Extension/ [1]
16:26:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/29-wai-wcag-irc#T16-13-26
16:26:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: DavidMacD to link in with EO for the creation of techniques for Mobile A11y WCAG Extenison doc [2]
16:26:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/29-wai-wcag-irc#T16-15-31
16:26:10 <RRSAgent> ACTION: David to link in with EO for the creation of techniques for Mobile A11y WCAG Extenison doc [3]
16:26:10 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/29-wai-wcag-irc#T16-15-40
16:26:16 <Sarah_Swierenga> bye
16:26:17 <laura> bye