12:55:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #forms
12:55:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-irc
12:55:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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12:55:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
12:55:58 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:55:59 <trackbot> Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:55:59 <trackbot> Date: 23 March 2016
12:56:15 <Steven> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Mar/0013
12:56:25 <Steven> Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Mar/0013
13:00:02 <ebruchez> I thnk I need the new new password
13:02:06 <alain> alain has joined #forms
13:04:49 <Steven> No, I just used the old one
13:04:58 <Steven> I needed the room number for the first time
13:05:04 <Steven> The room number is in the agenda
13:05:27 <ebruchez> which is the old one then?
13:05:40 <Steven> I mean the same one as last week
13:08:34 <Steven> Present: Steven, Erik
13:08:56 <Steven> Are you having problems Alain?
13:14:42 <Steven> Alain?
13:15:18 <Steven> Topic: Call back to normal time next week
13:15:18 <Steven> [No link]
13:15:39 <Steven> Steven: Summer time starts in Europe this weekend, so back to normal times.
13:15:51 <Steven> Topic: Whitespace MIP
13:15:51 <Steven> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Mar/0012.html
13:17:14 <Steven> Steven: So writing this text raised some questions
13:17:35 <Steven> ... wecan't have AVTs in binds if I remember right. So should it be a computed property?
13:18:05 <Steven> Erik: It causes problems with ordering of calculations; so it should be static like type is.
13:18:39 <Steven> ... In an ideal world everything should be computable, but you have problems with spotting and avoiding loops
13:20:43 <Steven> Steven: Take integers for instance, whitespace is not relevant
13:20:58 <Steven> ... how do we specify when whitespace should be transformed
13:21:10 <Steven> ... ?
13:21:44 <Steven> Erik: If you called a service that supplied let us say an integer, could spaecs be allowed?
13:22:15 <Steven> ... XML datamodel has lexical value and type value
13:22:46 <Steven> Steven: Lexical space and value space
13:24:23 <Steven> Erik: XForms allows control to take account of the value, dates being a good example.
13:24:37 <Steven> s/wecan/we can/
13:25:02 <Steven> Erik: So I think inputs may well already ignore spaces for some types
13:27:03 <Steven> Steven: SO what do we say. The default is preserve, or type-dependent?
13:27:17 <Steven> Erik: Good question...
13:27:21 <Steven> s/SO/So/
13:27:53 <Steven> Erik: Boolean, integer, date/time all have representations that should have no whitespace.
13:28:10 <Steven> ... not sure it makes sense to say collapse on a number
13:28:51 <Steven> ... if a user types 1<space>2, not sure what happens. Leading and trailing whitespace there is an argument for.
13:31:02 <Steven> Steven: Is "<space>1" invalid?
13:31:29 <Steven> Philip: Schema allows leading and trailing spaces.
13:31:54 <alain> Hello! Room number??
13:34:05 <Steven> Steven: So 'preserve' is OK for numbers, because "1<space>2" would not validate
13:34:44 <Steven> Erik: So surrounding spaces seem to be OK, from a schema point of view, date works (checking now)
13:35:24 <Steven> Steven: Sounds good to me.
13:35:37 <Steven> Present+Alain
13:37:10 <Steven> Steven: I'm assuming that the property doesn't inherit.
13:37:42 <Steven> Erik: I agree; I don't think we need inheritance.
13:40:02 <Steven> Steven: Last question, what to do with "trim collapse" in the example. Make it a single value? What should we call it then?
13:40:26 <Steven> Erik: Normalise space in XPath strips leading and trailing, and collapses.
13:40:38 <Steven> Steven: Maybe we should just call it normalise then.
13:41:03 <Steven> Erik: We could but in Schema 'normalise' is called 'collapse'
13:42:29 <Steven> Steven: I propose we call "trim-collapse" just "normalize" and be done, unless someone can come up with a better name.
13:43:05 <Steven> Erik: Not sure of my preference at this moment
13:44:05 <Steven> ... I think normalize would be an acceptable choice.
13:44:48 <Steven> Erik: Two additions - 1) what whitespace means.
13:45:00 <Steven> Steven: I didn't realise we didn't.
13:45:48 <Steven> ... we could either use the XML definition, or the Unicode definition/
13:46:20 <Steven> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/Zs/list.htm
13:46:59 <Steven> http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/index.htm
13:48:17 <ebruchez> Character.isWhitespace(c) || isNonBreakingSpace(c) || isZeroWidthChar(c) || Character.isISOControl(c))
13:48:17 <Steven> Erik: We use one of the Java APIs to define whitespace
13:48:52 <Steven> ... note we include the control characters.
13:50:01 <Steven> Steven: I'll take a look to see if we can make a consistent story on this.
13:50:11 <Steven> ACTION: Steven to research what whitespace means
13:50:11 <trackbot> Created ACTION-2059 - Research what whitespace means [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-03-30].
13:50:44 <Steven> Erik: We process all whitespace before calculations
13:51:57 <Steven> ... and if we write to a value that has a whitespace property, then the whitespace gets dealt with too.
13:52:38 <Steven> Erik: And 2) was saying WHEN processing happens, which we do just before calculate.
13:53:44 <Steven> Topic: AOB
13:54:19 <Steven> Steven: I'm going to start posting updates to the spec starting next week.
13:54:24 <Steven> [ADJOURN]
13:54:45 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:54:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-minutes.html Steven
13:59:31 <Steven> Chair: Steven
13:59:32 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:00:06 <Steven> Present+Philip
14:00:08 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:05:05 <Steven> Steven has joined #forms
15:05:10 <Steven> s/spaecs/spaces/
15:06:13 <Steven> rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-minutes.html Steven
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