IRC log of forms on 2016-03-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:55:54 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #forms
12:55:54 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-irc
12:55:56 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
12:55:56 [Zakim]
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12:55:58 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
12:55:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
12:55:59 [trackbot]
Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
12:55:59 [trackbot]
Date: 23 March 2016
12:56:15 [Steven]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Mar/0013
12:56:25 [Steven]
Steven has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Mar/0013
13:00:02 [ebruchez]
I thnk I need the new new password
13:02:06 [alain]
alain has joined #forms
13:04:49 [Steven]
No, I just used the old one
13:04:58 [Steven]
I needed the room number for the first time
13:05:04 [Steven]
The room number is in the agenda
13:05:27 [ebruchez]
which is the old one then?
13:05:40 [Steven]
I mean the same one as last week
13:08:34 [Steven]
Present: Steven, Erik
13:08:56 [Steven]
Are you having problems Alain?
13:14:42 [Steven]
Alain?
13:15:18 [Steven]
Topic: Call back to normal time next week
13:15:18 [Steven]
[No link]
13:15:39 [Steven]
Steven: Summer time starts in Europe this weekend, so back to normal times.
13:15:51 [Steven]
Topic: Whitespace MIP
13:15:51 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Mar/0012.html
13:17:14 [Steven]
Steven: So writing this text raised some questions
13:17:35 [Steven]
... wecan't have AVTs in binds if I remember right. So should it be a computed property?
13:18:05 [Steven]
Erik: It causes problems with ordering of calculations; so it should be static like type is.
13:18:39 [Steven]
... In an ideal world everything should be computable, but you have problems with spotting and avoiding loops
13:20:43 [Steven]
Steven: Take integers for instance, whitespace is not relevant
13:20:58 [Steven]
... how do we specify when whitespace should be transformed
13:21:10 [Steven]
... ?
13:21:44 [Steven]
Erik: If you called a service that supplied let us say an integer, could spaecs be allowed?
13:22:15 [Steven]
... XML datamodel has lexical value and type value
13:22:46 [Steven]
Steven: Lexical space and value space
13:24:23 [Steven]
Erik: XForms allows control to take account of the value, dates being a good example.
13:24:37 [Steven]
s/wecan/we can/
13:25:02 [Steven]
Erik: So I think inputs may well already ignore spaces for some types
13:27:03 [Steven]
Steven: SO what do we say. The default is preserve, or type-dependent?
13:27:17 [Steven]
Erik: Good question...
13:27:21 [Steven]
s/SO/So/
13:27:53 [Steven]
Erik: Boolean, integer, date/time all have representations that should have no whitespace.
13:28:10 [Steven]
... not sure it makes sense to say collapse on a number
13:28:51 [Steven]
... if a user types 1<space>2, not sure what happens. Leading and trailing whitespace there is an argument for.
13:31:02 [Steven]
Steven: Is "<space>1" invalid?
13:31:29 [Steven]
Philip: Schema allows leading and trailing spaces.
13:31:54 [alain]
Hello! Room number??
13:34:05 [Steven]
Steven: So 'preserve' is OK for numbers, because "1<space>2" would not validate
13:34:44 [Steven]
Erik: So surrounding spaces seem to be OK, from a schema point of view, date works (checking now)
13:35:24 [Steven]
Steven: Sounds good to me.
13:35:37 [Steven]
Present+Alain
13:37:10 [Steven]
Steven: I'm assuming that the property doesn't inherit.
13:37:42 [Steven]
Erik: I agree; I don't think we need inheritance.
13:40:02 [Steven]
Steven: Last question, what to do with "trim collapse" in the example. Make it a single value? What should we call it then?
13:40:26 [Steven]
Erik: Normalise space in XPath strips leading and trailing, and collapses.
13:40:38 [Steven]
Steven: Maybe we should just call it normalise then.
13:41:03 [Steven]
Erik: We could but in Schema 'normalise' is called 'collapse'
13:42:29 [Steven]
Steven: I propose we call "trim-collapse" just "normalize" and be done, unless someone can come up with a better name.
13:43:05 [Steven]
Erik: Not sure of my preference at this moment
13:44:05 [Steven]
... I think normalize would be an acceptable choice.
13:44:48 [Steven]
Erik: Two additions - 1) what whitespace means.
13:45:00 [Steven]
Steven: I didn't realise we didn't.
13:45:48 [Steven]
... we could either use the XML definition, or the Unicode definition/
13:46:20 [Steven]
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/Zs/list.htm
13:46:59 [Steven]
http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/index.htm
13:48:17 [ebruchez]
Character.isWhitespace(c) || isNonBreakingSpace(c) || isZeroWidthChar(c) || Character.isISOControl(c))
13:48:17 [Steven]
Erik: We use one of the Java APIs to define whitespace
13:48:52 [Steven]
... note we include the control characters.
13:50:01 [Steven]
Steven: I'll take a look to see if we can make a consistent story on this.
13:50:11 [Steven]
ACTION: Steven to research what whitespace means
13:50:11 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2059 - Research what whitespace means [on Steven Pemberton - due 2016-03-30].
13:50:44 [Steven]
Erik: We process all whitespace before calculations
13:51:57 [Steven]
... and if we write to a value that has a whitespace property, then the whitespace gets dealt with too.
13:52:38 [Steven]
Erik: And 2) was saying WHEN processing happens, which we do just before calculate.
13:53:44 [Steven]
Topic: AOB
13:54:19 [Steven]
Steven: I'm going to start posting updates to the spec starting next week.
13:54:24 [Steven]
[ADJOURN]
13:54:45 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:54:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-minutes.html Steven
13:59:31 [Steven]
Chair: Steven
13:59:32 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
13:59:32 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-minutes.html Steven
14:00:06 [Steven]
Present+Philip
14:00:08 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:00:08 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:05:05 [Steven]
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15:05:10 [Steven]
s/spaecs/spaces/
15:06:13 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
15:06:13 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/23-forms-minutes.html Steven
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