IRC log of dwbp on 2016-03-11

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:51:03 [RRSAgent]
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13:51:03 [RRSAgent]
logging to
13:51:05 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs 351
13:51:05 [Zakim]
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13:51:07 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be DWBP
13:51:07 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:51:08 [trackbot]
Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:51:08 [trackbot]
Date: 11 March 2016
13:51:12 [phila]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:51:30 [PWinstanley]
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13:51:36 [PWinstanley]
present+ PWinstanley
13:52:13 [phila]
regrets+ Carol, Bernadette, Laufer
13:52:17 [phila]
present+ phila
13:55:52 [newton]
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13:59:31 [phila]
phila has changed the topic to: NEW WEBEX: +1-617-324-0000 PW: dwbp Agenda:
14:00:14 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
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14:00:46 [newton]
present+ newton
14:01:03 [hadleybeeman]
present+ hadleybeeman
14:01:18 [antoine]
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14:01:41 [deirdrelee]
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14:01:42 [annette_g]
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14:01:52 [PWinstanley]
meeting password please ...?
14:02:25 [PWinstanley]
14:03:40 [antoine]
present+ antoine
14:04:31 [ericstephan]
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14:06:28 [annette_g]
scribe: annette_g
14:06:31 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
present+ riccardoAlbertoni
14:06:41 [hadleybeeman]
14:06:44 [annette_g]
PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes
14:06:52 [hadleybeeman]
14:06:54 [newton]
14:06:54 [antoine]
14:07:02 [annette_g]
14:07:07 [phila]
14:07:12 [ericstephan]
14:07:17 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
14:07:19 [annette_g]
RESOLVED: Accept last week's minutes
14:07:22 [ericstephan]
present+ ericstephan
14:08:04 [newton]
14:08:09 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: first item: closing items before the f2f. We need to try and do that by Monday
14:08:14 [hadleybeeman]
14:08:23 [hadleybeeman]
14:08:26 [deirdrelee]
present+ deirdrelee
14:08:38 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: BP status review?
14:09:09 [annette_g]
newton: on the status table, we have some BPs that need to be done still.
14:09:53 [annette_g]
newton: need some input from ericstephan
14:10:32 [annette_g]
ericstephan: BP 30 is done, example and tests
14:10:52 [ericstephan]
is this done now Newton? Or is there anything missing from the example I need to include?
14:11:02 [PWinstanley__]
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14:11:08 [PWinstanley__]
present+ PWinstanley
14:11:09 [newton]
Best Practice 30: Gather feedback from data consumers
14:11:31 [annette_g]
newton: BP 30 still needs a little more work
14:11:58 [newton]
Best Practice 31: Provide information about feedback
14:12:09 [annette_g]
ericstephan: I provided an example in a google doc for one of the editors to include it. I think it's complete.
14:12:36 [annette_g]
ericstephan: I thought I provided BP23 also.
14:12:43 [annette_g]
will check
14:13:58 [annette_g]
14:14:16 [annette_g]
ericstephan: I'm not sure the status of BP23.
14:14:36 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: are you the right person to look into that?
14:15:16 [annette_g]
ericstephan: I've been kind of distracted with DUV stuff, could use some help from someone else on the example for real-time access.
14:15:24 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: anyone?
14:15:34 [annette_g]
ericstephan: annette_g?
14:15:57 [annette_g]
annette_g: I'm feeling similarly overbooked
14:16:30 [annette_g]
PWinstanley__: I have some data that might work for this, from sensors
14:17:02 [annette_g]
ericstephan: one problem I"m having is that there is a BP for keeping data up to date already.
14:17:32 [phila]
14:17:36 [newton]
14:17:52 [annette_g]
PWinstanley__: I was thinking about river levels, not by the microsecond, but every 15 or 20 minutes. I can contact my colleagues to find out what the score it.
14:18:22 [ericstephan]
PWinstanley__ thank you!
14:18:45 [yaso]
present+ yaso
14:19:22 [newton]
q+ isn't real time data closer to data stream?
14:19:22 [annette_g]
ACTION: Peter to check on using an example about real-time data for BP23
14:19:23 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-239 - Check on using an example about real-time data for bp23 [on Peter Winstanley - due 2016-03-18].
14:19:26 [hadleybeeman]
phila: ericstephan's point about real-time and keeping data up to date... they can mean the same thing.
14:19:28 [newton]
14:19:56 [hadleybeeman]
...For river levels, real-time can be every 15 minutes. The frequency is context-dependent.
14:19:59 [phila]
ack me
14:20:02 [ericstephan]
good points phila
14:20:31 [annette_g]
phila: what's real-time depends on the data
14:20:33 [ericstephan]
didn't catch the last part...
14:21:03 [annette_g]
newton: is the real-time data the same as a data stream?
14:21:23 [annette_g]
annette_g: I think it's not necessarily, but it can be
14:21:25 [ericstephan]
streams like twitter feeds?
14:21:47 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: the "stream" only appears one place in our doc, talking about activity streams
14:21:56 [ericstephan]
we could do this in real time
14:22:17 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: what else?
14:22:42 [annette_g]
newton: BP18 si assigned to Joao Paolo
14:22:54 [annette_g]
he seems to be tied up
14:23:08 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: can someone else take this on?
14:23:28 [annette_g]
antoine: I was surprised that this was assigned to him. I can help, but not before next week.
14:23:34 [phila]
q+ to talk about Joaoa Paulo
14:23:47 [annette_g]
newton: what does this do to the discussion next week?
14:23:49 [hadleybeeman]
ack phila
14:23:49 [Zakim]
phila, you wanted to talk about Joaoa Paulo
14:24:22 [annette_g]
phila: I had an email from Joao Paulo saying he will join for a part of the f2f.
14:24:37 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: we can't really assign to him in absentia
14:25:05 [annette_g]
newton: we can work on it during the f2f. That's better than no work on it. Berna and I can help, too.
14:25:32 [annette_g]
antoine: Since I wrote that BP, that's why I was surprised it was assigned to him.
14:25:52 [annette_g]
newton: should I change the name on the BP to Antoine?
14:26:03 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: sure.
14:26:39 [annette_g]
newton: BP 32, enriching data
14:27:12 [yaso]
14:27:21 [annette_g]
newton: Adriano and Adriano are assigned to it, but they aren't involved lately
14:27:37 [hadleybeeman]
ack yaso
14:28:11 [annette_g]
yaso: they agreed that they are not responsible for the BP. It's up to the group now.
14:28:30 [annette_g]
I agree with annette_g that it's an important one.
14:28:48 [annette_g]
maybe we should close the action and try to talk about it in the f2f.
14:29:30 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: if we're to keep it as a BP, I'd like to have someone on it
14:29:44 [phila]
14:29:51 [annette_g]
yaso: I"m afraid to take it on and not be able to do it.
14:29:58 [hadleybeeman]
ack phila
14:30:08 [annette_g]
phila: my solution is Occam's razor.
14:30:25 [annette_g]
it would take a significant effort to complete it.
14:30:49 [annette_g]
phila: annette_g seems to be the remaining interested person
14:31:03 [antoine]
14:31:06 [hadleybeeman]
annette_g: I'd rather try to fix it than just drop it.
14:31:16 [ericstephan]
It could be picked again in a future community group
14:31:25 [annette_g]
annette_g: I'd rather have it on my list than see it dropped
14:31:30 [ericstephan]
14:31:40 [hadleybeeman]
ack antonie
14:31:43 [hadleybeeman]
ack ant
14:31:56 [hadleybeeman]
ack eric
14:32:01 [annette_g]
antoine: I can provide an example for this. I sent my example on the chat in a previous meeting, but there was no reaction. This may mean we should drop it.
14:32:31 [antoine]
For info this is the example I mentioned:
14:32:41 [hadleybeeman]
q+ to ask Newton when we need to stop accepting new text into the document
14:32:49 [annette_g]
ericstephan: I think the timing is not good. It might not be worth it for something that's more a cool idea.
14:32:57 [annette_g]
I'm for dropping it
14:33:23 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: there is a way for the group to drop it and not lose it
14:33:29 [hadleybeeman]
ack me
14:33:29 [Zakim]
hadleybeeman, you wanted to ask Newton when we need to stop accepting new text into the document
14:33:44 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: newton, when is the cutoff for new items?
14:33:54 [annette_g]
newton: not sure we can add new text even now
14:34:04 [annette_g]
* really???? :(
14:34:27 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: does it make sense to give annette_g a few days to try?
14:34:35 [annette_g]
newton: I need to talk with the other editors
14:35:07 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: annette_g, are you going to zagreb?
14:35:16 [annette_g]
annette_g: just remotely for a few hours
14:35:34 [antoine]
14:35:37 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: can you work on it over the weekend
14:36:07 [annette_g]
ACTION: Annette to work on the BP for enriching data before the f2f
14:36:07 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-240 - Work on the bp for enriching data before the f2f [on Annette Greiner - due 2016-03-18].
14:36:12 [newton]
@annette_g are you going to improve the Data Enrichment section or only in the BP?
14:36:20 [annette_g]
antoine: offers to help if needed as well.
14:36:56 [PWinstanley]
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14:36:57 [annette_g]
annette_g: I think just the one BP
14:37:23 [newton]
BP 22: Serving data and resources with different formats
14:37:29 [annette_g]
newton: BP 22, serving data with different formats
14:37:44 [PWinstanley]
present+ PWinstanley
14:37:53 [phila]
- BP 22
14:37:55 [newton]
14:38:37 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: I can take it.
14:39:03 [annette_g]
ACTION: Hadley to review BP 22
14:39:03 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-241 - Review bp 22 [on Hadley Beeman - due 2016-03-18].
14:39:37 [newton]
14:39:48 [hadleybeeman]
ack antoine
14:39:52 [hadleybeeman]
ack newton
14:39:52 [newton]
14:40:38 [annette_g]
newton: back to the table. If you have red around your name in it, you need to complete that action.
14:40:55 [deirdrelee]
will do!
14:41:06 [deirdrelee]
def finished by monday
14:41:06 [ericstephan]
Or Sunday midnight here
14:41:45 [annette_g]
newton: phila, can we close 94?
14:41:48 [annette_g]
phila: yes
14:41:49 [newton]
Close this issue. The group agrees that we shouldn't recommend specific tools in our BP. Maybe we can include an example about using git for dataset versioning. Should we include the example?
14:43:03 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: we nee to answer the question about whether to avoid specific technologies
14:43:16 [annette_g]
phila: in the implementation section?
14:43:22 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: see issue 94
14:44:01 [phila]
14:44:01 [trackbot]
issue-94 -- Dataset versioning and dataset replication -- open
14:44:01 [trackbot]
14:44:11 [annette_g]
PWinstanley: an issue with versioning is whether you're doing versioning with diffs or with complete sets. we can point to using something like Git as an approach to the latter.
14:44:17 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: we need to get some language
14:45:04 [phila]
14:45:11 [annette_g]
PWinstanley: In the various approaches toward versioning systems, there are certain general principles and ways in which you can overcome issues like forking and merging.
14:45:24 [hadleybeeman]
ack phila
14:45:36 [annette_g]
PWinstanley: presumably we can come up with something that deals with that
14:45:49 [annette_g]
phila: this was first raised on the use cases doc
14:46:11 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: does any part of this need to be settled for the BP doc?
14:46:15 [annette_g]
newton: I don't think so.
14:46:41 [phila]
close issue-94
14:46:41 [trackbot]
Closed issue-94.
14:46:46 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: Let's just close it
14:46:54 [ericstephan] close
14:47:05 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: issue 148. ericstephan can we close it?
14:47:07 [annette_g]
ericstephan: yes
14:47:21 [antoine]
14:47:22 [phila]
close issue-148
14:47:22 [trackbot]
Closed issue-148.
14:47:30 [annette_g]
issue 220 was bernadette's and she wants to close it
14:47:36 [phila]
14:47:36 [trackbot]
issue-220 -- Should we include a more complexe example to illustrate provenance? -- open
14:47:36 [trackbot]
14:47:46 [ericstephan]
I am having troubles hearing
14:48:12 [annette_g]
newton: I can create an action on myself to put in the example that Antoine suggested
14:48:24 [annette_g]
from issue 220
14:48:38 [phila]
close issue-228
14:48:39 [trackbot]
Closed issue-228.
14:48:47 [phila]
close issue-220
14:48:47 [trackbot]
Closed issue-220.
14:49:00 [annette_g]
ACTION: Newton to follow up on issue 220
14:49:00 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-242 - Follow up on issue 220 [on Newton Calegari - due 2016-03-18].
14:49:03 [antoine]
14:49:14 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: we closed 228
14:49:21 [annette_g]
232 is done
14:49:24 [phila]
close issue-232
14:49:24 [trackbot]
Closed issue-232.
14:49:38 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: issue 149 is yours
14:49:51 [deirdrelee]
14:50:15 [phila]
close issue-149
14:50:15 [trackbot]
Closed issue-149.
14:50:33 [phila]
14:50:34 [trackbot]
issue-160 -- Should we add at BP about subsetting data? -- open
14:50:34 [trackbot]
14:50:48 [phila]
Hmmm... big issue
14:51:16 [hadleybeeman]
annette: I feel like we have it covered by having APIs... but if you're posting data outside of that, as a blob, maybe there is value in giving people accesss to fragments
14:51:30 [ericstephan]
It is huge
14:51:50 [hadleybeeman]
hadley: this is less of an challenge in linked data -- but we're talking about more than just that.
14:51:53 [ericstephan]
Its really hard if you don't have a specific domain in mind
14:52:08 [hadleybeeman]
phila: this is coming up in spatial data on the web
14:52:26 [hadleybeeman]
... My Occam's razor approach is to say the group recognises it's really important. Maybe mention it somewhere?
14:52:29 [antoine]
14:52:30 [PWinstanley]
isn't data cube vocab an approach?
14:52:35 [hadleybeeman]
...But to be practical, we could hand it to sdw
14:52:41 [hadleybeeman]
annette_g: Is is specifically spatila
14:52:45 [hadleybeeman]
phila: no
14:52:56 [hadleybeeman]
PWinstanley: Data cube slices fit in here too.
14:52:58 [ericstephan]
if there is momentum in the spatial data then we might be able to grow something from there. We are dealing with subsetting on the temporal level
14:53:13 [hadleybeeman]
phila: in spatial data, a slice isn't enough
14:53:21 [ericstephan]
14:53:23 [hadleybeeman]
PWinstanley: We could have some simplistic cases that are widely used
14:53:43 [hadleybeeman]
...How you push data into a leaflet map ... critical for sortgin out good practice
14:53:56 [hadleybeeman]
antoine: I'm not sure data cube slices sort the problem. they can exist in one dataset.
14:54:16 [ericstephan]
subsetting a graph (subgraph) another issue, mathematical forests (trees of data another)
14:54:26 [hadleybeeman]
...Also, if it's an important issue, I think we should have a BP. Perhaps make it super simple, saying different domains have different criteria for subsetting;
14:54:37 [hadleybeeman]
...point to sdw for a specific example
14:54:38 [hadleybeeman]
14:54:44 [hadleybeeman]
ack antoine
14:54:48 [hadleybeeman]
ack eric
14:54:57 [phila]
q+ to talk about CGs, wish lists, next steps
14:55:08 [hadleybeeman]
ericstephan: I'm concerned that if we don't have a really good approach, it may not have an impact.
14:55:23 [antoine]
14:55:31 [hadleybeeman]
...Maybe we should think about it more broadly in the future? I'm sceptical that it won't have much impact.
14:55:41 [hadleybeeman]
phila: we could have an entire doc about this
14:55:50 [hadleybeeman]
...slicing isn't engouh; you also need to dice it
14:55:56 [hadleybeeman]
...You also need to think re page media
14:56:05 [hadleybeeman]
...In the spatial world, that could give you a number of tiles back.
14:56:26 [hadleybeeman]
...It could reduce the granularity of the data until it fitted... There are a lot of options here.
14:56:33 [hadleybeeman]
...I'm looking for something realistic we could say.
14:56:48 [hadleybeeman]
...Other groups have finished with a wishlist; CSV on the Web has set up a community group...
14:56:59 [hadleybeeman]
...This is a substantial topic in its own right.
14:57:10 [hadleybeeman]
...If we can say something substantial, we should -- but if not, we can do other things.
14:57:16 [hadleybeeman]
ack phila
14:57:16 [Zakim]
phila, you wanted to talk about CGs, wish lists, next steps
14:57:20 [hadleybeeman]
ack antoine
14:57:42 [ericstephan]
Something that needs to be considered as well is the impact on the implementation report
14:57:44 [annette_g]
antoine: I think we can still have an impact if we simply say that it's helpful to provide subsets
14:58:04 [hadleybeeman]
zakim, close the queue
14:58:04 [Zakim]
ok, hadleybeeman, the speaker queue is closed
14:58:05 [annette_g]
antoine: if we just say something simple, that could bring a useful message.
14:58:22 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: we need to wrap this up.
14:58:30 [annette_g]
who can take this forward?
14:58:37 [ericstephan]
The only part might be to think of datasets and distributions. Thats the only thing that comes to mind
14:58:56 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: is there someone who wants to write now?
14:58:59 [ericstephan]
address later
14:59:05 [annette_g]
annette_g: I'd like to give it a try
14:59:22 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: something more for your weekend
14:59:41 [annette_g]
also think about what could be left as future work
15:00:00 [phila]
-> Zagreb agenda
15:00:11 [phila]
Topic: Zagreb
15:00:16 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: last issue, during the f2f, we have times when we're just talking about BP. Do vocab editors want to do breakouts at those times?
15:00:27 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: monday morning in particular
15:00:28 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
+1 to break on monday morning
15:00:40 [annette_g]
phila: thinking about Antoine in particular
15:00:51 [ericstephan]
my concern is that Berna is going to be in the BP discussions, and Sumit won't be attending
15:01:03 [annette_g]
antoine: I'm behind it
15:01:03 [ericstephan]
from the DUV perspective
15:01:19 [annette_g]
ericstephan: that puts it in the middle of the night for you
15:01:32 [annette_g]
ericstephan: crazy as it sounds, I still want to attend remotely
15:01:50 [hadleybeeman]
s/ericstephan: that/hadleybeeman: eric, that
15:01:53 [annette_g]
ericstephan: not sure how much sense it makes to have overlap
15:02:09 [annette_g]
might work for DQV more than DUV
15:03:02 [ericstephan]
thank you and safe travels all
15:03:02 [annette_g]
hadleybeeman: sounds like we should have DUV folks in with BP people and DQV separate
15:03:05 [deirdrelee]
thanks hadleybeeman !
15:03:10 [newton]
bye! thanks
15:03:11 [deirdrelee]
see you all next week
15:03:12 [newton]
see you on monday
15:03:15 [RiccardoAlbertoni]
bye all!
15:03:17 [annette_g]
15:03:17 [yaso]
thank you, Hadley! and tks annette_g ! Bye all
15:03:20 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:03:20 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
15:03:21 [newton]
or maybe sunday
15:03:26 [hadleybeeman]
bye all!
15:03:41 [phila]
RRSAgent, make logs public
15:03:54 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:03:54 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
15:04:10 [phila]
chair: Hadley
15:04:18 [phila]
RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:04:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate phila
16:02:46 [annette_g]
annette_g has joined #dwbp
16:58:05 [Zakim]
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