16:04:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-wai-wcag-irc
16:04:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:04:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
16:04:32 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
16:04:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:04:33 <trackbot> Date: 08 March 2016
16:04:40 <yatil> present+ EricE
16:04:48 <Joshue> Chair:AWK
16:04:54 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
16:04:54 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:04:55 <Zakim> 3. 1. TImelines planning [from AWK]
16:04:55 <Zakim> 5. Update from mobile and Cognitive TFs [from AWK]
16:04:55 <Zakim> 4. Future guidelines work discussion [from AWK]
16:04:55 <Zakim> 2. I ssues work/update https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/1stMarch2016/ [from Joshue]
16:05:50 <SarahHorton> SarahHorton has joined #wai-wcag
16:05:55 <AWK> Chair: AWK
16:06:20 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:21 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:06:29 <Kathy> present+ Kathy
16:06:45 <laura> Scribe: Laura
16:07:07 <laura> Zakim, next item
16:07:07 <Zakim> agendum 3. "1. TImelines planning" taken up [from AWK]
16:07:27 <laura> AWK: We are meeting next week.
16:07:51 <laura> … on CSUN week no meeting
16:08:01 <laura> … will resume on 29th
16:08:25 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
16:08:45 <Ryladog> Present+ Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:08:46 <laura> Josh: Thinking of doing some timelines.
16:09:06 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:09:12 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
16:09:29 <JF> Q+
16:09:42 <laura> MC: Wanted to workout a time line for WCAG 2.1. and perhaps extensions.
16:09:55 <laura> … not sure of 3.0
16:10:40 <laura> …May do some work in parallel
16:11:00 <AWK> ack j
16:11:37 <Joshue> q?
16:11:51 <laura> JF: Useful. Heard we are worling on 2.1.With target date of 12 months.
16:12:16 <laura> AWK: Not exactly. We aren’t chartered for 2.1
16:12:19 <Joshue> q?
16:12:30 <Joshue> present+ Joshue
16:12:38 <laura> … We need to think of all the factors
16:13:18 <laura> …may mean we stat working on 2.1 proir to charter. But not publish it.
16:13:36 <laura> JF: Doesn’t think charter is a blocker.
16:14:09 <laura> JF: Has asked Judy for guidance.
16:14:15 <Joshue> q+
16:14:50 <laura> …we don’t have answers to a lot of questions. We need them.
16:15:16 <laura> MC: Charter is on the basis of what is allowed.
16:15:41 <laura> … not chartered for 2.1. May want to recharter.
16:15:58 <Sarah_Swierenga> Sarah_Swierenga has joined #wai-wcag
16:15:59 <laura> …want to be efficient.
16:16:06 <Wayne> present+ wayne
16:16:13 <laura> …explore other options.
16:16:18 <AWK> ack j
16:16:44 <Wayne> q+
16:16:50 <laura> josh: perference to work toward 2.1
16:17:08 <Sarah_Swierenga> present+ Sarah
16:17:29 <laura> …like us to orientate a bit.
16:17:49 <JF> I've lost audio
16:18:08 <laura> …stable goal 2.1 folding in our extension research.
16:18:24 <AWK> ack way
16:18:28 <JF> Q+
16:18:56 <AWK> q+
16:19:19 <laura> wayne: can’t see why we can't do both. Extensions and 2.0
16:19:53 <laura> wayne: bring togerher and have a unified extension.
16:19:54 <AWK> AWK to ask what people would expect from a WCAG 2.1 that would differ from an extension that combines requirements from different TFs
16:20:01 <AWK> ack j
16:20:44 <MichaelC> q+
16:20:53 <MichaelC> q+ to mention dangers of talking recharter too soon
16:21:10 <laura> JF: If we need a recharter, in 12 day AC meeting. This is a opportunity.
16:21:31 <laura> …Can we identify dates to work toward?
16:21:31 <AWK> ack aw
16:21:51 <MichaelC> q+ to say defining timelines is intended to make sure we *don´t* kick it down the road
16:22:01 <laura> AWK: concerned 12 days is a litte soon
16:22:23 <laura> …welcome to do it individually.
16:22:35 <Joshue> q?
16:22:47 <laura> …talking is part of doing.
16:23:55 <laura> …if we have a unified extesion is that different than 2.1? Thinks not.
16:24:09 <SarahHorton> q+
16:24:16 <AWK> ack m
16:24:17 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to mention dangers of talking recharter too soon and to say defining timelines is intended to make sure we *don´t* kick it down the road
16:24:55 <laura> MC: Reason to work on timelines is to keep us on track.
16:24:56 <Ryladog> q+to ask if - are all of the WCAG 2 backlog of issues and errata covered under the 3 current extensions
16:25:17 <Joshue> AWK is right. A monoglot extension doc is a WCAG 2.1 by any other name. Except the conformance model for a 2.1 is likely to be far more easily implemented.
16:25:27 <laura> …we are not ready to talk with AC yet. (as a WG)
16:26:28 <laura> …we need to be really sure about what we want in a recharter intelligently.
16:26:54 <laura> …premature to take with AC.
16:26:58 <Joshue> +1 to waiting till TPAC
16:26:59 <AWK> ack s
16:27:22 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
16:27:49 <AWK> q+
16:27:51 <laura> Sarah: would like to pick up conversation on analysis on prototyping
16:27:52 <AWK> ack r
16:27:52 <Zakim> Ryladog, you wanted to ask if - are all of the WCAG 2 backlog of issues and errata covered under the 3 current extensions
16:27:57 <Wayne> +1 Sarah
16:28:01 <JF> Q+
16:28:22 <laura> Katie: we rechartered  based on all those myths.
16:28:26 <_665> +1 Sarah
16:28:54 <laura> …next TPAC may be when we talk with AC
16:29:25 <AWK> q?
16:29:40 <AWK> ack AWK
16:29:40 <laura> katie: myths = that we we not allowed to do 2.1
16:30:23 <SarahHorton> q+
16:30:39 <laura> AWK: we need to look at TF work but not as an additional TF
16:30:45 <Joshue> q+
16:30:52 <AWK> ack j
16:31:05 <Joshue> ack jf
16:31:22 <laura> JF: request that we get some dates.
16:31:25 <Joshue> q+
16:31:58 <laura> …lets have a survey.
16:32:36 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:32:44 <laura> AWK: we are headed in that direction.
16:33:00 <AWK> q?
16:33:05 <AWK> ack s
16:33:16 <David> zakim, make minutes
16:33:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'make minutes', David
16:33:38 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:33:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:34:10 <laura> Sarah: Thinks that we may be more effective as a smaller group to bring forward proposals.
16:34:19 <David> present+ David MacDonald
16:34:20 <MichaelC> q+ to say we have too much in play to start architecting, but it may be helpful to do a bit later
16:34:27 <laura> Sarah: thinking out of the box.
16:34:44 <AWK> ack j
16:35:05 <jamesn> present+ JamesNurthen
16:35:17 <laura> Josh: Thinks it is a good idea.
16:35:25 <AWK> rrsagent, set logs public
16:36:14 <laura> Josh: we could use a new perspective.
16:36:39 <laura> Sarah: would like to collaborate with other s on it.
16:36:52 <David> q+
16:36:57 <laura> Josh: Start with putting your ideas into the Wiki.
16:37:18 <laura> Sarah: Sounds intimidating.
16:37:21 <MichaelC> q-
16:37:25 <AWK> q+
16:37:43 <laura> Josh: It’s not. Start with defining the problem.
16:38:01 <laura> Sarah: would like a partner.
16:38:25 <laura> JF: I will work with Sarah on it.
16:39:33 <Wayne> q+
16:39:34 <Joshue> q?
16:39:34 <AWK> ack michael
16:39:35 <laura> Josh: Wrap it all up by TPAC
16:39:57 <AWK> ack da
16:40:46 <JF> Q+
16:40:51 <laura> DM: CSUN 2014 proposed WCAG next. And JF was apprehensive.
16:41:04 <laura> …what has changed?
16:41:32 <laura> JF: 2.0 will never change.
16:42:13 <AWK> regrets+ Sarah_Swierenga, Mike Elledge
16:42:13 <laura> …sorry if left a different impression. Has evolved.
16:42:19 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:43:02 <Joshue> q?
16:44:19 <laura> JF: Doesn’t recall conversation.  We can’t mess with 2.0.
16:44:45 <AWK> ack me
16:44:50 <JF> ack JF
16:44:58 <Joshue> We should try and sketch out a timeline. I suggest first the TFs produce candidate SCs and an inter TF review to look for connections and overlap between their respective SCs. I'd like to see that wrapped up in the next two months if possible.
16:44:59 <laura> …would like dates for moving forward.
16:45:28 <laura> AWK: worried about to broad of a scope.
16:45:56 <JF> +1 to defining what an extension is, and how they work
16:46:05 <laura> …look at requirements first. And that timeline.
16:46:08 <Joshue> q?
16:46:13 <alastairc> q+
16:46:22 <AWK> ack way
16:46:48 <laura> AWK: interested in first steps
16:47:35 <laura> wayne: would like regular TF status reports globally
16:48:01 <laura> …we have a void in the law in the U.S.
16:48:16 <laura> …we need to start moving.
16:48:20 <AWK> ack ali
16:48:25 <AWK> ack ala
16:49:10 <JF> Sounds like Alastair needs to join Sarah and I on this... :)
16:49:12 <laura> AC: Seems to fit into a design model.
16:49:17 <SarahHorton> +1
16:49:27 <Joshue> +1 to Alistair. Actually its a Hegelian model in my mind Thesis, Antithesis, Synthesis.
16:49:32 <laura> …perhaps use a giant spreadsheet.
16:49:52 <laura> …would like to help with it.
16:50:14 <Joshue> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georg_Wilhelm_Friedrich_Hegel
16:51:18 <laura> …easier to do without conformance criteria at fiist.
16:51:26 <AWK> q?
16:52:51 <laura> AWK: requirements first or conformance criteria?
16:53:01 <SarahHorton> Yep
16:53:24 <laura> JF: week after CSUN could present ideas.
16:53:42 <JF> +1 to Sarah - exactly
16:53:58 <laura> Sarah: Not sure what the choices are yet.
16:54:32 <Joshue> q?
16:54:39 <alastairc> q+
16:55:32 <David> q+
16:55:47 <Joshue> q+ to bring this back to a tangible timeline.
16:56:05 <laura> Sarah: we need to figure out what will be the most effective.
16:56:17 <laura> AWK: what is the goal?
16:56:36 <laura> Sarah: think we will need more time.
16:56:51 <Wayne> Q+
16:56:55 <JF> Q+ to suggest that Sarah, Alastair and I return on April 5th to present our research and draft ideas
16:57:20 <laura> …it is a key part of the methodology
16:57:48 <AWK> ack ala
16:58:31 <laura> Sarah: would like an endorsement of doing the  design thinking exercise.
16:58:43 <AWK> ack David
16:59:15 <laura> DM: would like to join the group.
16:59:17 <Wayne> q-
16:59:23 <David> http://davidmacd.com/blog/WCAG-extension-proposed-integration-into-WCAG.html
16:59:30 <laura> …has done some work on that.
16:59:58 <Joshue> ack me
16:59:58 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to bring this back to a tangible timeline.
17:00:00 <AWK> ack josh
17:00:18 <laura> josh: exited about the meta group.
17:01:29 <laura> …we need coordination between the TFs and deliverables.
17:01:58 <laura> …review and see how it may fit into a 2.1.
17:02:00 <AWK> ack jf
17:02:00 <Zakim> JF, you wanted to suggest that Sarah, Alastair and I return on April 5th to present our research and draft ideas
17:02:03 <Joshue> q?
17:02:44 <AWK> zakim, close the queue
17:02:44 <Zakim> ok, AWK, the speaker queue is closed
17:02:58 <laura> JF: AC is on the right track but his thinking is more in line with sarah and David.
17:03:45 <laura> …propose presenting models to the group april 5
17:03:56 <Ryladog> I would like to see several models
17:04:10 <Ryladog> proposed
17:04:16 <Joshue> Sounds good. Go for it.
17:04:24 <Ryladog> Not one model
17:04:24 <AWK> s/but his thinking/but JF's thinking
17:04:38 <Wayne> +1
17:04:40 <laura> AWK: Thinks it is okay. Some reservations but thinks it may work out.
17:04:42 <_665> +1
17:04:45 <Sarah_Swierenga> +1 this is ok
17:04:52 <Makoto> +1
17:05:03 <laura> Katie: would like several models
17:05:21 <AWK> regrets- Sarah_Swierenga
17:05:27 <David> shoot for 3
17:05:35 <laura> JF:  suggested 2 or more.
17:05:41 <Ryladog> Shoot for 3 options
17:05:51 <AWK> Present+ Sarah_Swierenga
17:06:22 <Joshue> q?
17:06:39 <laura> Sarah: methodology has a defined way to move forward.
17:07:07 <Ryladog> I think the reason you survey, is to discuss the pro and cons of these models - 3 or more
17:07:14 <laura> JF: we need to set on 2 or more models.
17:07:33 <AWK> ACTION: Sarah to work with John F, Alastair, David and others to discuss ideas for how to proceed on WCAG 2.next and report back on April 5
17:07:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-319 - Work with john f, alastair, david and others to discuss ideas for how to proceed on wcag 2.next and report back on april 5 [on Sarah Horton - due 2016-03-15].
17:07:39 <laura> Sarah: that is the nature of the excercise.
17:07:49 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
17:07:49 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
17:07:50 <Zakim> 3. 1. TImelines planning [from AWK]
17:07:50 <Zakim> 5. Update from mobile and Cognitive TFs [from AWK]
17:07:50 <Zakim> 4. Future guidelines work discussion [from AWK]
17:08:05 <Wayne> q-
17:08:07 <laura> Zakim, next item
17:08:07 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Update from mobile and Cognitive TFs" taken up [from AWK]
17:09:12 <laura> Kathy: Mobile TF published a draft last year.
17:09:44 <laura> …Working on SC and adjusting.
17:10:03 <laura> …touch and pointer.
17:10:26 <laura> …extension of keyboard SCs
17:10:53 <laura> …may  get rolled into existing or new SC.
17:11:05 <laura> …getting good feedback.
17:11:35 <laura> …updated wiki. And working on Github.
17:11:56 <Wayne> q+
17:12:41 <AWK> ack w
17:13:01 <laura> Wayne: Do you include tablets?
17:14:29 <laura> Kathy: looking at barriers for mobile tablets. A lot of challenges.
17:15:18 <laura> Wayne: mobile often takes away keyboard when it is needed.
17:15:52 <laura> Kathy: looked at things covered by uaag and other areas.
17:16:29 <laura> …wayne: thanks!
17:17:41 <laura> AWK: some of this may be applicable to 2.1 some may be beyond that.
17:18:53 <laura> Kathy: a lot is on the Wiki. We can add more.
17:19:07 <_665> link to wiki?
17:19:24 <AWK> zakim, agenda?
17:19:24 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
17:19:25 <Zakim> 5. Update from mobile and Cognitive TFs [from AWK]
17:19:25 <Zakim> 4. Future guidelines work discussion [from AWK]
17:20:22 <Wayne> q+
17:20:45 <AWK> ack w
17:21:11 <AWK> Topic: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/1stMarch2016/results
17:21:34 <laura> AWK: Survey on DPub
17:22:20 <laura> AWK: We have some comments.
17:24:10 <MichaelC> q+ to say ¨here´s a great idea for you to work on¨ rarely works
17:24:27 <laura> Wayne: We have a labor problem. Maybe the DPub group could do some WCAG work
17:24:50 <MichaelC> ack me
17:24:50 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say ¨here´s a great idea for you to work on¨ rarely works
17:25:02 <laura> MC: that usually does not work.
17:26:34 <JF> Q+
17:26:44 <laura> AWK: Michael Elledge made a comment and others. We can just wrap this up and send what we have to DPub?
17:28:14 <JF> Q?
17:28:21 <laura> yes
17:28:25 <AWK> http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meetingtime.html?iso=20160315&p1=43&p2=248&p3=136
17:28:50 <laura> Next week daylight savings time takes affect.
17:29:51 <laura> Keep that in mind.
17:30:03 <AWK> ack j
17:30:05 <JF> "How to proceed on WCAG 2.next: design thinking exercise": http://doodle.com/poll/m8r6k7ivcqi2vusa
17:30:09 <AWK> zakim, close the queue
17:30:09 <Zakim> ok, AWK, the speaker queue is closed
17:30:29 <Sarah_Swierenga> Have a good week, everyone.
17:30:30 <JF> ack JF
17:30:33 <SarahHorton> Thanks, John!
17:30:34 <AWK> trackbot, end meeting
17:30:34 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:30:34 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Michael_Cooper, Alastair_Campbell, Andrew_Kirkpatrick, Joshue_O_Connor, Katie_Haritos-Shea, Kim_Dirks, Laura_Carlson, Lisa_Seeman,
17:30:37 <Zakim> ... Mike_Elledge, Moe_Kraft, Rakesh_Paladugula, Sarah_Horton, Wayne_Dick, MoeKraft, David, AWK, marcjohlic, JamesNurthen, JF, Joshue108, jon_avila, AlastairC, EricE, Elledge,
17:30:37 <Zakim> ... Sarah_Swierenga, Srini, Dirks, Makoto, Joshue, Greg_Lowney, MichaelC, Kathy, Jim, John_Kirkwood, JimA, Sarah, MacDonald
17:30:42 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:30:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
17:30:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:30:43 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-wai-wcag-actions.rdf :
17:30:43 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Sarah to work with John F, Alastair, David and others to discuss ideas for how to proceed on WCAG 2.next and report back on April 5 [1]
17:30:43 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/03/08-wai-wcag-irc#T17-07-33