15:14:19 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:14:19 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-dpub-irc
15:14:21 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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15:14:23 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:14:24 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
15:14:24 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:14:24 <trackbot> Date: 07 March 2016
15:15:17 <ivan> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2016Mar/0021.html
15:15:21 <ivan> ivan has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2016Mar/0021.html
15:16:01 <ivan> Regrets: Ayla, BillK, Deborah
15:17:03 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:17:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-dpub-minutes.html ivan
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15:52:15 <pkra> First!
15:52:18 <pkra> hah!
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15:57:37 <dauwhe> present+
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15:59:19 <ivan> Chair: Markus
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15:59:49 <astearns> present+ astearns
16:00:37 <HeatherF> present+ Heather_Flanagan
16:00:50 <pkra> present+ Peter Krautzberger.
16:00:51 <HeatherF> I'll likely have to drop off early
16:00:59 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
16:01:00 <brady_duga> present+ duga
16:01:15 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
16:01:16 <rdeltour> present+
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16:01:35 <HeatherF> That works for me
16:01:38 <TimCole> Present+ Tim_Cole
16:01:42 <lrosenth> present+ Leonard_Rosenthol
16:01:43 <HeatherF> I'm more interested in the use cases
16:01:46 <Vlad> present+
16:01:49 <dauwhe> mgylling: discussing alterations to agenda
16:01:49 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
16:02:12 <dauwhe> ... any objections to move a11y notes status to the end of the meeting?
16:02:15 <dauwhe> (silence)
16:02:25 <dauwhe> ... let's get going
16:02:34 <mgylling>  https://www.w3.org/2016/02/29-dpub-minutes.html
16:02:34 <dauwhe> Topic: approval of last week's minutes
16:02:37 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #dpub
16:02:41 <dauwhe> ... any objections?
16:02:46 <dauwhe> (silence=consent)
16:02:51 <dauwhe> ... minutes approved
16:02:55 <laudrain> Present+ Luc
16:03:07 <dauwhe> Topic: Virtual F2F
16:03:17 <dauwhe> ... we mentioned this a month ago
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16:03:38 <dauwhe> ... we wouldn't be able have a physical f2f this "semester"
16:03:45 <dauwhe> ... we are meeting at TPAC
16:03:48 <lrosenth> Do you have the details on the fall F2F?
16:03:58 <dauwhe> ... instead of a virtual version of a normal f2f
16:04:14 <dauwhe> ... the idea is to have 4 hr meetings which focus on one or two topics
16:04:31 <dauwhe> ... I think we should try this; see if it works for us
16:04:55 <dauwhe> ... could also work for task forces as well as entire group
16:05:03 <dauwhe> ... we have a proposed date and proposed topics
16:05:12 <dauwhe> ... may 25, from 12UTC to 16UTC
16:05:38 <dauwhe> ... we acknowledge it's not an ideal time for everyone
16:05:58 <dauwhe> ... the topics are twofold
16:06:04 <dauwhe> ... first, is to work on use cases
16:06:16 <dauwhe> ... second, to work on the notes in our pipeline
16:06:23 <dauwhe> ... not sure where they will be in the process
16:06:37 <dauwhe> ... but we want to help note editors to speed their progress
16:06:42 <lrosenth> q+
16:06:42 <mgylling> q?
16:06:46 <dauwhe> ... any questions?
16:06:55 <mgylling> ack lrosen
16:07:03 <dauwhe> lrosenth: are you suggesting that 4-hr block on the 25th is just for those two topics?
16:07:05 <dauwhe> mgylling: yes
16:07:21 <dauwhe> ... both of these sessions are intended to be different than the Monday calls
16:07:34 <dauwhe> ... we want to do work, not just plan and track
16:07:41 <dauwhe> ... edit docs, produce new use cases
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16:07:49 <mgylling> q?
16:07:55 <clapierre3> Present+ Charles LaPierre
16:07:56 <dauwhe> lrosenth: is the expectation that we'd  use same comms as current meetings? Webex and IRC?
16:08:03 <dauwhe> mgylling: perfect question.
16:08:14 <dauwhe> ... if we want safe and simple stay with IRC and webex
16:08:20 <Bert> Bert has joined #dpub
16:08:31 <dauwhe> ... we can't expect to have working videoconference via webex
16:08:37 <dauwhe> ivan: we can try
16:08:45 <Bert> present+
16:09:10 <dauwhe> ... we've used webex with video with 7-8 people and it works
16:09:18 <pkra> hangouts-on-air does 10 ppl, plain hangouts 15 ppl.
16:09:21 <dauwhe> ... and I don't know of an alterative tech available to us
16:09:25 <dauwhe> mgylling: that sounds good
16:09:43 <dauwhe> ... let's try it.
16:09:58 <mgylling> q?
16:10:01 <dauwhe> ivan: I'll continue to be on video for the rest of this meeting
16:10:04 <dauwhe> mgylling: cool
16:10:27 <dauwhe> lrosenth: i'll be in Europe taht week; we could get together in an Adobe office
16:10:36 <dauwhe> ivan: where?
16:10:44 <dauwhe> lrosenth: Berlin, but it could be elsewhere
16:11:08 <dauwhe> mgylling: there's nothing preventing such gatherings
16:11:32 <dauwhe> ... in terms of the topics
16:11:43 <dauwhe> ... these are two topics we thought would be a good thing to work on
16:11:52 <dauwhe> ... if you think we missed something, speak up now
16:12:04 <dauwhe> ... we may modify as the date comes closer
16:12:18 <mgylling> q?
16:12:31 <dauwhe> ... ivan, anything else?
16:12:37 <dauwhe> ... there's not a lot of admin involved
16:12:41 <dauwhe> ivan: nope
16:12:45 <dauwhe> ... I can set up a webex
16:13:21 <dauwhe> ... I'll wait a few weeks before arranging
16:13:33 <dauwhe> mgylling: we'll make an announcement ASAP
16:14:07 <dauwhe> mgylling: charles, are you here?
16:14:17 <dauwhe> ... OK if we do a11y note now?
16:14:27 <dauwhe> ... we know y'all are close
16:14:27 <HeatherF> I thought we wanted a11y in the second half?
16:14:37 <clapierre3> http://w3c.github.io/dpub-accessibility/
16:14:40 <dauwhe> ... we want to help
16:14:49 <dauwhe> clapierre3: just pasted a link to the current note
16:15:02 <dauwhe> ... there's been a lot of discussion, presented at IDPF meetings
16:15:13 <dauwhe> ... we asked w3c to informally take a look
16:15:39 <dauwhe> ... michael cooper reviewed our note and made some suggestions
16:15:46 <dauwhe> ... and suggested a joint meeting with WCAG
16:15:56 <dauwhe> ... to bring common understanding of the needs and how to meet the needs
16:16:03 <dauwhe> ... also a review from alistair campbell
16:16:18 <dauwhe> ... our current plan is to rewrite the suggestions, to do gap analysis
16:16:21 <dauwhe> ... change the ordering
16:16:27 <dauwhe> ... rewrite the abstract
16:16:38 <dauwhe> ... have to go through lots of line item suggestions
16:16:48 <dauwhe> ... and bring them here or to a11y group
16:16:56 <dauwhe> ... and will convert our google doc to wiki table
16:17:07 <dauwhe> ... reach out to Avneesh and Matt Garish
16:17:17 <dauwhe> ... harmony between epub a11y profile and our note
16:17:28 <dauwhe> ... and want help from Matt on wording etc
16:17:30 <lrosenth> q+
16:17:48 <dauwhe> ... we hope to have all of these changes by March 25
16:17:56 <dauwhe> ... then we'll reach out to WCAG for a joint meeting
16:18:04 <dauwhe> ... the missing thing is metadata and packaging
16:18:12 <dauwhe> ... some of that could be a formal extension to wcag
16:18:15 <ivan> q+
16:18:46 <dauwhe> mgylling: the meeting with WCAG after march 25, the purpose is?
16:19:01 <dauwhe> clapierre3: potentially... we want to give the note to them for their suggestions
16:19:08 <dauwhe> ... we had a lot of "wcag should do this"
16:19:20 <dauwhe> ... and they suggested that we shouldn't be that blatant
16:19:34 <dauwhe> ... and should change the wording
16:19:40 <mgylling> q?
16:19:41 <dauwhe> ... and could better harmonize with other groups
16:19:48 <mgylling> ack lrosen
16:20:02 <dauwhe> lrosenth: the purpose of the note?
16:20:10 <dauwhe> ... I understand finding gaps in WCAG
16:20:14 <dauwhe> ... and that's very clear
16:20:23 <dauwhe> ... I'm unclear on other goals of the committee
16:20:39 <dauwhe> clapierre3: that is the main goal--identify gaps in WCAG and fill those gaps
16:20:48 <dauwhe> ... and that work will continue in our task force
16:20:59 <dauwhe> ... possibly writing a wcag extension...
16:21:11 <dauwhe> ... the note is a first step to bring these issues to light
16:21:15 <mgylling> ack ivan
16:21:16 <dauwhe> ... then work on next steps
16:21:24 <dauwhe> ivan: purely on timing
16:21:44 <dauwhe> ... between April 5 and April 18 I will be unavailable
16:22:03 <dauwhe> ... there's an IDPF F2F, EPUB Summit in Bordeaux, Then Web Conference in Montreal
16:22:18 <dauwhe> ... for the last round on a practical level you'll need me for publication stuff
16:22:25 <dauwhe> ... and that can't be done before late April
16:22:36 <dauwhe> ... keeping in mind publication dates are tuesdays and thursdays
16:22:47 <dauwhe> clapierre3: I'm sure there will be some tweaks after we bring it to wcag
16:22:54 <dauwhe> ... so we might be able to do that during april
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16:23:33 <dauwhe> clapierre3: we have to schedule meeting after March 25; don't know when meeting will be, and *then* make changes
16:23:40 <dauwhe> ivan: so my timing is OK?
16:23:44 <dauwhe> clapierre3: absolutely!
16:23:56 <dauwhe> mgylling: in terms of feedback from beyond the IG
16:24:01 <dauwhe> ... you mentioned Michael Cooper, etc
16:24:15 <dauwhe> ... is there any patterns in the feedback that are interesting? Or are they just random?
16:24:21 <dauwhe> ... can we see a tendancy?
16:24:32 <dauwhe> clapierre3: alistair's comments were insightful
16:24:45 <dauwhe> ... he suggested rewriting the abstract, as it didn't match
16:24:59 <dauwhe> ... he thought overall the note was very good on gaps
16:25:07 <dauwhe> ... lots of nitpickly things
16:25:15 <ivan> Regrets+ NickR, Karen
16:25:18 <dauwhe> ... I haven't had a chance to dig into it
16:25:21 <mgylling> q?
16:25:38 <dauwhe> mgylling: cool
16:25:46 <dauwhe> ... one comment I heard a few times
16:25:51 <dauwhe> ... was the entry about dropcaps
16:26:03 <dauwhe> clapierre3: we're thinking it's not really an issue
16:26:14 <dauwhe> ... we just need to work with CSS on styling of dropcaps
16:26:20 <dauwhe> ... so publishers know what to do
16:26:27 <dauwhe> ... the CSS does exactly what you want
16:26:36 <dauwhe> ... don't know if we'll take it out
16:26:47 <dauwhe> ... because this is aimed at w3c... still up for discussion
16:26:54 <dauwhe> ... what is your recommendation?
16:27:05 <dauwhe> ... since it's already covered we don't need to bring it up?
16:27:14 <ivan> q+
16:27:17 <dauwhe> ... epub 3.1 will reference this note, so publishers will see it
16:27:26 <dauwhe> ... it will be public, right?
16:27:29 <dauwhe> mgylling: we can discuss it
16:27:41 <dauwhe> ... from my point of view, that thing is on a different level
16:27:44 <ivan> q-
16:27:51 <dauwhe> ... it's just one example of an uniformed authoring practice
16:28:03 <dauwhe> ... we don't want this to be a technique doc
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16:28:11 <dauwhe> ... we want to stay on a high level like wcag
16:28:22 <dauwhe> ... this feels like it's drifting into technique
16:28:31 <pkra> q+
16:28:34 <dauwhe> ... maybe this is a different issue to go into details
16:28:34 <mgylling> q?
16:28:41 <dauwhe> clapierre3: it's a slippery slope
16:29:02 <dauwhe> ... something like dropcaps is fundamental for a11y. if the markup is wrong the word will be mispronounced
16:29:07 <dauwhe> ... maybe an appendix?
16:29:13 <mgylling> ack pkra
16:29:15 <dauwhe> ... and this note can evolve.
16:29:24 <dauwhe> pkra: quick question on math
16:29:32 <dauwhe> ... I filed a bug report on IDPF tracker
16:29:46 <dauwhe> ... trying to figure out if I should file a bug on ARIA
16:29:54 <dauwhe> ... will you put in something on math?
16:30:18 <dauwhe> clapierre3: I've reached out to some groups... potentially we could do an ARIA module with math terms
16:30:27 <dauwhe> ... you're starting a CG
16:30:31 <dauwhe> ... there's a gap there.
16:31:02 <dauwhe> pkra: on the IDPF, the current suggestion is to use mathml and then use MathML's @alt-text. But that doesn't work if AT doesn't support math
16:31:09 <dauwhe> ... and aria-label isn't in the rec
16:31:18 <dauwhe> ... short-term things
16:31:27 <dauwhe> mgylling: I'd love to talk to you more about that
16:31:33 <pkra> that was my question :)
16:31:35 <dauwhe> ... is taht really in scope for this document?
16:31:45 <ivan> q+
16:31:46 <dauwhe> ... the original scope was gaps in WCAG, etc
16:31:48 <pkra> I'm obviously fine if it's not
16:32:01 <dauwhe> ... are we saying they are not dealing with match sufficiently?
16:32:02 <ivan> q-
16:32:05 <pkra> who are you asking?
16:32:05 <dauwhe> ... if so, in what respect?
16:32:07 <mgylling> q?
16:32:17 <dauwhe> clapierre3: I know there are issues
16:32:27 <dauwhe> ... the browsers are supposed to support, and they don't
16:32:31 <pkra> q_
16:32:33 <pkra> q+
16:32:39 <dauwhe> mgylling: and your paper isn't scoped to point out all issues with browsers
16:32:40 <mgylling> ack pkra
16:32:53 <dauwhe> pkra: my bug wasn't about people expecting to render mathml,
16:32:54 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #dpub
16:33:04 <ivan> q+
16:33:06 <dauwhe> ... it's just odd to point out unsupported tech as recommendation
16:33:15 <mgylling> ack ivan
16:33:25 <dauwhe> ivan: we have to be careful on focus
16:33:40 <pkra> q+
16:33:45 <dauwhe> ... handling math properly would mean working with and on ARIA, and that's not WCAG
16:33:51 <dauwhe> ... and this doc is on WCAG things
16:34:11 <dauwhe> ... there can be a different doc on things other than WCAG... here are the general a11y issues
16:34:18 <dauwhe> ... along with chemistry, music...
16:34:23 <dauwhe> ... that's a different set of problems
16:34:30 <pkra> q-
16:34:37 <dauwhe> ... putting that on the wcag doc seems to be over the top
16:34:45 <dauwhe> ... let's do one thing at a time
16:34:49 <dauwhe> ... once this is published
16:34:57 <dauwhe> ... we could look at more general issues
16:35:12 <dauwhe> ... that are currently not handled by a11y techniques
16:35:23 <dauwhe> clapierre3: I agree. That's a good idea, and a good direction for the task force
16:35:57 <dauwhe> ... there's a future work section in our doc, pkra can help us with a note
16:35:57 <pkra> +1
16:36:05 <pkra> Happy to.
16:36:08 <dauwhe> ivan: I can get people from musicml
16:36:21 <dauwhe> ... and tzviya has contact with people in ChemML, etc
16:36:30 <dauwhe> ... none of these have proper a11y mapping
16:36:30 <mgylling> ACTION pkra to help the A11Y note group with prose on MathML
16:36:31 <trackbot> Created ACTION-55 - Help the a11y note group with prose on mathml [on Peter Krautzberger - due 2016-03-14].
16:36:36 <dauwhe> ... the stem area is not properly handled
16:36:43 <mgylling> s/MathML/ MathML and STEM
16:36:47 <mgylling> q?
16:36:58 <dauwhe> clapierre3: thanks for your help, pkra
16:37:09 <rdeltour> q+
16:37:14 <dauwhe> mgylling: it's good to establish it here, so we have a clear way ahead
16:37:16 <mgylling> ack rdel
16:37:28 <dauwhe> rdeltour: based on the discussion on epub ml
16:37:43 <dauwhe> ... about specialized publications, and thus don't conform to wcag
16:37:57 <dauwhe> ... like an audio book which doesnt' have text equiv
16:38:05 <dauwhe> ... given that dpub has relationshipos with wcag
16:38:06 <lrosenth> q+
16:38:17 <dauwhe> ... should we add this issue on the plate of the dpub a11y task force
16:38:22 <dauwhe> mgylling: should it go in the note
16:38:38 <dauwhe> rdeltour: the need to identify restrictions of wcag for specialized publication
16:38:46 <dauwhe> clapierre3: for audio only books, that's just a specific rendition
16:38:53 <dauwhe> mgylling: at this time there is not
16:39:05 <dauwhe> rdeltour: wcag was created for the web, so content should be universal
16:39:13 <dauwhe> ... but some publications have limited target audience
16:39:28 <dauwhe> ... if there is accurate metadata, it would make sense to limit the wcag levels
16:39:37 <mgylling> ack lrosen
16:39:39 <dauwhe> lrosenth: i think there's some confusion here
16:39:57 <dauwhe> ... rdeltour seems to be imply there will be a11y requriements on any pwp
16:40:11 <dauwhe> ... the group is identifying issues not covered by wcag
16:40:22 <dauwhe> ... but we're not saying every pwp has to be accessible
16:40:29 <dauwhe> ... like having an archiving profile
16:40:38 <dauwhe> ... but we haven't said there's a requirement
16:40:44 <dauwhe> rdeltour: I don't think that's the issue
16:41:02 <dauwhe> ... wcag is just not applicable on some digital publications which are otherwise accessible to the target audience
16:41:19 <dauwhe> lrosenth: that doesn't apply to pwp, because it does not have a requirement
16:41:33 <dauwhe> mgylling: but the note is not about pwp, but about digital publishing in general
16:41:49 <dauwhe> ... wcag doesn't work well for a braille ebook or audio-only ebook
16:41:55 <dauwhe> ... this was discussed on the epub list
16:42:02 <dauwhe> ... it's a good problem to mention in the note
16:42:14 <dauwhe> clapierre3: a publication is one of the gaps
16:42:20 <dauwhe> ... wcag doesn't handle multiple file
16:42:22 <ivan> b.t.w. the pwp document says "A Web Publication should provide accessible access to content.", see https://w3c.github.io/dpub-pwp/#pwp_definition
16:42:37 <dauwhe> ... metadata is missing in wcag too
16:42:52 <dauwhe> ... "this is an audio-only renditoin" put that in the metadata
16:43:06 <ivan> s/renditoin/rendition/
16:43:07 <dauwhe> ... so you might have to add a text rendition to get wcag complicance
16:43:20 <lrosenth> @ivan - yes, SHOULD (as in a recommendation, not a requirement)
16:43:31 <dauwhe> mgylling: rdeltour, what do you think?
16:43:35 <dauwhe> rdeltour: I'll think about it
16:43:42 <dauwhe> clapierre3: the more help the better!
16:44:00 <mgylling> ACTION rdeltour to propose prose re DPUB audio and braille type issues with WACG
16:44:00 <trackbot> Created ACTION-56 - Propose prose re dpub audio and braille type issues with wacg [on Romain Deltour - due 2016-03-14].
16:44:13 <dauwhe> mgylling: we have one more major agenda item
16:44:20 <mgylling> q?
16:44:20 <dauwhe> ivan: can we move to next week?
16:44:34 <dauwhe> clapierre3: sorry that deborah and Tzviya couldn't participate
16:44:54 <dauwhe> mgylling: let's move on
16:44:57 <dauwhe> Topic: Use Cases
16:45:07 <dauwhe> ... how should we spend 16 minutes
16:45:15 <dauwhe> ... this is one of the most important things we do this year
16:45:23 <dauwhe> ... bringing order to our use case collection
16:45:37 <ivan> Romain's writeup on the use cases: https://github.com/w3c/dpub-pwp-ucr/wiki/Use-Cases-Overview
16:45:40 <dauwhe> ... it's important because it will be good fodder for a future pwp working group
16:45:52 <dauwhe> ... and the current state of our wiki is... sub-optimal
16:46:07 <dauwhe> ... rdeltour, you have been officially leading the work on the tracker
16:46:14 <dauwhe> .... going through existing stuff
16:46:21 <dauwhe> ... and we have stuff incoming from subgroups
16:46:25 <dauwhe> ... let's start with romain
16:46:35 <dauwhe> ... you sent a pointer to a wiki page
16:46:51 <dauwhe> rdeltour: in the issues, we reviewed all the existing use cases
16:46:57 <dauwhe> ... many are out of scope
16:47:05 <dauwhe> ... the rest need to be reworked and rephrased
16:47:13 <dauwhe> ... we need to almost start from scratch
16:47:27 <dauwhe> ... so in the wiki I listed the identified areas where we need more use cases
16:47:43 <dauwhe> .. all the first-level bullets are what we had in the previous wiki
16:47:51 <dauwhe> ... the 2nd level bullets are the use cases
16:48:01 <dauwhe> ... for some, we can elaborate on existing cases
16:48:09 <dauwhe> ... for some others, we have to start from scratch
16:48:19 <dauwhe> ... or we can work from disussions on th emailing list
16:48:24 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:48:24 <Zakim> Present: dauwhe, astearns, Heather_Flanagan, Peter, Krautzberger., duga, rdeltour, Tim_Cole, Leonard_Rosenthol, Vlad, Ben_De_Meester, Luc, Charles, LaPierre, Bert
16:48:28 <Zakim> On IRC I see tzviya, shepazu, cmaden2, Bert, clapierre3, DanielWeck, laudrain, lrosenth, TimCole, bjdmeest, Vlad, brady_duga, HeatherF, tmichel, rdeltour, mgylling, dauwhe, pkra,
16:48:28 <Zakim> ... Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, darobin, liam, nikos, plinss, iank_, bigbluehat, astearns, leaverou, trackbot
16:48:38 <dauwhe> ... and there are areas where we lack discussion, like packaging and security
16:48:44 <mgylling> q?
16:48:53 <dauwhe> ... and then we're waiting for input from other task forces, like a11y and archiving
16:48:59 <dauwhe> ... that's the overview
16:49:04 <dauwhe> mgylling: thanks, that's a great start
16:49:15 <cmaden2> present+ Chris_Maden
16:49:16 <ivan> Present+ Michael_Miller, Tzviya
16:49:18 <dauwhe> ... having a list of work that needs to be done
16:49:34 <dauwhe> ... you said, wipe it clean and start from scratch
16:49:38 <dauwhe> rdeltour: it's editorial work
16:49:40 <clapierre3> Q+
16:49:53 <mgylling> ack clap
16:50:02 <dauwhe> clapierre3: I was looking at use cases
16:50:12 <ivan> Present+ DanielW
16:50:14 <dauwhe> ... we can help with audiobooks in HTML5 as a use case
16:50:38 <dauwhe> mgylling: the problem we're having is that we need to figure out how to best go about this with limited resources
16:51:09 <dauwhe> ... in the early stages we organized ourselves in these categories and worked only on use cases, and that trickled away
16:51:12 <TimCole> q+
16:51:16 <dauwhe> ivan: yes, that's what happened
16:51:27 <dauwhe> mgylling: so we tried before, and it didn't work so well
16:51:34 <dauwhe> rdeltour: one issue was fragmenation
16:51:46 <mgylling> q?
16:51:53 <dauwhe> ... the existing use cases... some were just one-liners, not very developed
16:52:04 <dauwhe> ... we need more-encompassing use cases
16:52:10 <mgylling> ack timc
16:52:17 <dauwhe> mgylling: one use case from which multiple requirements can be derivied
16:52:27 <dauwhe> TimCole: for the archival TF, scope is a question.
16:52:36 <dauwhe> ... what kinds of use cases are of interest
16:52:42 <ivan> q+
16:52:48 <dauwhe> ... we talked about how LOCKKS tries to preserve digital content
16:53:01 <dauwhe> ... are there implications from stuff like that?
16:53:06 <dauwhe> ... how might this inform the PWP development?
16:53:32 <dauwhe> ... LOCKKS tries to cache/ proxy cache... it looks at the accept header, looks at the wire
16:53:39 <dauwhe> ... checks to see if my copy is out of date
16:53:52 <dauwhe> ... given that pwp can be packaged or unpackaged on the web
16:54:06 <dauwhe> ... this may mean that the lockks archive might not capture the whole package
16:54:16 <dauwhe> ... but this doesn't fall into your categories right now
16:54:20 <dauwhe> ... so what is the scope?
16:54:27 <dauwhe> mgylling: maybe ivan wants to answer
16:54:38 <dauwhe> ... the categories are not locked in stone, and were just inherited from wiki
16:54:46 <dauwhe> rdeltour: and that's not expected to be the final outline
16:55:02 <dauwhe> mgylling: when in doubt, write it down and submit it. That's much better than keeping it out
16:55:11 <dauwhe> ... we can prune later
16:55:29 <mgylling> q?
16:55:29 <dauwhe> TimCole: for the next couple of months, the archival group will have its own page on github
16:55:34 <dauwhe> ... we can filter later
16:55:41 <mgylling> ack ivan
16:55:53 <dauwhe> ivan: so we should not forget that the list of use cases on the wiki
16:56:01 <dauwhe> ... came in the very early days of the group
16:56:11 <dauwhe> ... where this whole idea of pwp was not even clear
16:56:33 <dauwhe> ... in some sense now what we have is a bifurcation
16:56:49 <dauwhe> ... we have use cases from the digital publishing community at large, largely about CSS
16:56:59 <dauwhe> ... we must continue to collect these and push to CSSWG
16:57:19 <dauwhe> ... the use cases in Romain's doc should not include the typesetting/CSS/rendering use cases
16:57:25 <rdeltour> +1
16:57:34 <dauwhe> ... this is the doc for use cases bound to the vision of the pwp document
16:57:45 <dauwhe> ... what are the features raised by this vision
16:57:52 <dauwhe> ... even a11y
16:57:55 <mgylling> q?
16:57:59 <dauwhe> ... I would not be sure
16:58:20 <dauwhe> ... the a11y issues are largely general DP issues that this group is taking care of
16:58:34 <dauwhe> ... there may be some issues which are bound to and relevant to PWP
16:58:42 <dauwhe> ... the same filter should be applied to all use cases
16:58:51 <dauwhe> mgylling: we'll have to weigh all of these individually
16:58:55 <dauwhe> ... like audiobooks
16:59:09 <dauwhe> ... it's a functional requirement for pwp to have an audio-only manifestation
16:59:14 <clapierre3> 1+
16:59:16 <dauwhe> ivan: and maybe beyond that
16:59:54 <dauwhe> ... there may need to be many renditions
17:00:08 <dauwhe> mgylling: that's one thing... use cases for multiple renditions
17:00:32 <dauwhe> mgylling: we've run out of time; we need to get back to this
17:00:41 <dauwhe> ... look at resources and a plan to move ahead
17:00:53 <dauwhe> ... beyond the subgroups, which are doing stuff on their own
17:00:58 <dauwhe> ... we need to do more
17:01:08 <mgylling> q?
17:01:14 <dauwhe> mgylling: anything else?
17:01:22 <dauwhe> ... thanks everyone. see you next week
17:01:32 <ivan> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:01:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-dpub-minutes.html ivan
17:01:37 <clapierre3> clapierre3 has left #dpub
17:01:38 <ivan> trackbot, end telcon
17:01:38 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:01:38 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been dauwhe, astearns, Heather_Flanagan, Peter, Krautzberger., duga, rdeltour, Tim_Cole, Leonard_Rosenthol, Vlad, Ben_De_Meester, Luc, Charles,
17:01:41 <Zakim> ... LaPierre, Bert, Chris_Maden, Michael_Miller, Tzviya, DanielW
17:01:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:01:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/03/07-dpub-minutes.html trackbot
17:01:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:01:47 <RRSAgent> I see no action items