14:58:41 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #lvtf
14:58:41 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/24-lvtf-irc
14:58:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:58:43 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #lvtf
14:58:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be
14:58:45 <Zakim> I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
14:58:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Low Vision Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:58:46 <trackbot> Date: 24 February 2016
14:59:09 <allanj> chair: Jim and Andrew
14:59:21 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
14:59:34 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
14:59:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/24-lvtf-minutes.html allanj
15:00:15 <allanj> zakim, clear agenda
15:00:15 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:00:24 <allanj> zakim, clear present
15:00:24 <Zakim> I don't understand 'clear present', allanj
15:00:35 <allanj> zakim, who is hear
15:00:35 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is hear', allanj
15:00:38 <allanj> zakim, who is here
15:00:38 <Zakim> allanj, you need to end that query with '?'
15:00:42 <allanj> zakim, who is here?
15:00:42 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
15:00:44 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, allanj, shawn, MichaelC, trackbot
15:01:13 <allanj> regrets +Alan
15:03:29 <allanj> regrets + Laura, Wayne
15:05:19 <allanj> genda+ Contrast & Image accessibility
15:05:29 <allanj> Agenda+ Work with User Settings
15:05:39 <allanj> Agenda+  Point of Regard - Others?
15:06:01 <allanj> Agenda+ Contrast & Image accessibility
15:06:20 <allanj> s/genda+ Contrast & Image accessibility/
15:24:07 <allanj> Agenda+ Long Description for images
15:25:21 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #lvtf
15:26:02 <JohnRochford> JohnRochford has joined #lvtf
15:27:28 <shawn> agenda?
15:30:04 <shawn> present+
15:30:33 <Erich> Erich has joined #lvtf
15:30:56 <jeanne> present+ jeanne
15:32:09 <shawn> agenda order is 4,3,2,1
15:32:18 <shawn> agenda?
15:32:50 <shawn> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:32:50 <Zakim> Present: shawn, jeanne
15:33:11 <shawn> Present+ Jim, Erich, JohnR
15:33:13 <Erich> present
15:33:59 <JohnRochford> Present +
15:34:07 <shawn> chair: Jim
15:34:18 <Erich> scribe: Erich
15:34:35 <Erich> zakim, take up next item
15:34:35 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Long Description for images" taken up [from allanj]
15:34:57 <allanj> Topic: Long Description for images
15:35:10 <shawn> doc: http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html
15:35:44 <Erich> Jim, do descriptions have 'alt' on them
15:35:53 <AWK> AWK has joined #lvtf
15:37:43 <Erich> Jim - some of these images may have captions, but we need someone to check them
15:38:02 <shawn> q+ to ask to go through eacnow and see if we think the fig caption and alt is sufficient or if we need more...
15:38:21 <Erich> John is willing to review them
15:38:28 <shawn> ack shawn
15:38:28 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to ask to go through eacnow and see if we think the fig caption and alt is sufficient or if we need more...
15:39:05 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #lvtf
15:39:08 <Erich> Shawn believes stepping through with the group is worthwhile
15:39:17 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
15:39:38 <AWK> +AWK
15:39:48 <Erich> Shawn believes this may avoid the need for long description
15:40:39 <AWK> Shawn, if we get this out before March 1 do we avoid the need to reformat the document for the new rules, or does the rest take care of that for us?
15:40:43 <Erich> Erich thanks Shawn
15:41:34 <jon_avila> can someone post the url again
15:41:38 <AWK> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html
15:42:55 <jeanne> http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#fig-example-of-central-field-loss
15:44:03 <jeanne> +1 to Fig1 is sufficient.
15:44:13 <shawn> +1 for these alt and captions being sufficient - not need additional long description
15:44:22 <Erich> +1 figure 1 is sufficient
15:44:23 <allanj> +1
15:44:30 <JohnRochford> +1 to Fig1 sufficiency
15:44:53 <Erich> Jim: Review of figure 2
15:44:58 <jeanne> Fig 2 <- http://w3c.github.io/low-vision-a11y-tf/requirements.html#fig-example-of-peripheral-field-loss
15:45:00 <shawn> +1 for Fri 1 and Fig 2 and Fig 3 :-)
15:45:39 <jeanne> +1 to simulation
15:45:50 <Erich> AWK: questioning whether these 3 figures are simulated views more than screen captures
15:45:59 <allanj> +1 to "simulated view ..."
15:46:07 <JohnRochford> +1 to change "screen capture" to "simulated view"
15:46:09 <Erich> +1 simulated view
15:46:52 <shawn> [ me thinks we might want to tweak the actual alt text and caption text later. for now I'm just commenting on the need for long descriptions or not -- and not being too picky about the actualy wording ;-]
15:47:05 <Erich> Jim: Review of figure 3
15:48:25 <Erich> John: "Other" refers to what?
15:48:48 <JohnRochford> +1 to Fig2 sufficiency
15:48:59 <JohnRochford> +1 to Fig3 sufficiency
15:49:00 <Erich> Jim: "Other" is referring to bulleted items in list
15:49:13 <Erich> Jim: Review of Figure 4
15:49:26 <shawn> Next Set: Color Perception - Figs 4-7
15:50:25 <Erich> Jeanne: believes this to be a long description candidate, spelling out the colors of each one fully
15:50:42 <shawn> q+ to say in the alt briefly how the colors are different - not in detail, just summary
15:50:44 <jeanne> Fig 4 long description: 12 color color wheel simulating full color perception. Colors are red, red-orange, orange, yellow-orange, yellow, yellow-green, green, blue-green, blue, indigo, purple, purple-red
15:50:46 <allanj> fig 4: color wheel of 16 colors
15:50:53 <shawn> ack me
15:50:53 <Zakim> shawn, you wanted to say in the alt briefly how the colors are different - not in detail, just summary
15:52:27 <allanj> Erich - all appear shades of gray to me, descriptions would be useful
15:53:02 <Erich> Shawn: can see value in better descriptions, if not long description
15:54:00 <Erich> Shawn: Believes we should have alt text with shorter description, even if in addition to the long desc
15:54:33 <jeanne> Fig 5: 12 color wheel simulating red-green color blindness. Colors are yellow-green, yellow-green, yellow-green, yellow-green, yellow, yellow-green, brown, medium-blue, blue, nark-blue, med-blue, green-brown.
15:54:46 <allanj> primary and complementary colors
15:54:59 <AWK> q+ to say that perhaps there is a resource that we can point to that provides a table of actual vs perceived colors for different types of color blindness?
15:56:35 <shawn> +1 to easy way out of it ;-)
15:56:40 <shawn> ack awk
15:56:40 <Zakim> AWK, you wanted to say that perhaps there is a resource that we can point to that provides a table of actual vs perceived colors for different types of color blindness?
15:56:54 <Erich> AWK: wonders if there is an existing resource which addresses this already to spare us from needing to write this out
15:57:45 <shawn> s/Shawn: can see value in better descriptions, if not long description/Jeanne: can see value in better descriptions, if not long description
15:58:19 <Erich> Jeanne: could add the color descriptions if needed
16:00:03 <Erich> Shawn: goal is to be a resource for design
16:00:44 <Erich> Shawn: Can be broken down to 1. What do we need to do right now, and 2. What do we need to do moving forward?
16:01:19 <shawn> s/goal is to be a resource for design/goal here is to give a general idea of color blindness, rather than to be a specific resource for design
16:02:26 <allanj> +1 to move on, add note that we will be adding additional description in future version.
16:02:34 <Erich> Shawn: To Jeanne Is there some sort of simple correction possible in the alt?
16:03:48 <JohnRochford> BRB
16:03:52 <Erich> Jeanne: Yes, in figure 5 color wheel example, could say Red's shift toward Green, Green's shift towards Brown, and can work on something more detailed for Long Desc
16:04:22 <Erich> Jim: Review of Figure 8
16:08:22 <shawn> q+
16:08:36 <Erich> Jim: Does figure 8 capture low contrast example
16:08:57 <jeanne> Jeanne proposes alt text: Fig 5 alt text: Color wheel simulated view of a person with red-green color blindess, showing reds shifting to green, and green shifting to browns.
16:08:57 <jeanne> Fig 6 alt text: Color wheel simulated view of a person with blue-yellow color blindess, showing yellows shifting to pink, and blues shifting to blue-green or browns.
16:09:03 <Erich> +1 low contrast example
16:09:44 <shawn> q?
16:10:05 <shawn> ack me
16:10:16 <Erich> Jon: Thinks it is worthwhile to specify as user-defined
16:10:57 <AWK> Example of page with author-defined low contrast colors - light gray background and gray text with headings in shades of green
16:11:38 <shawn> Caption: Example of page with author-defined low contrast colors
16:12:17 <shawn> Alt: light gray background, main text is gray, headings are shades of light green
16:12:29 <AWK> Example of page with user-defined colors - black background and tan text with headings brown, purple, and pink
16:12:40 <shawn> +1 alt text is important to peole with low vision !!!
16:12:55 <Erich> Jon: Alt text is valuable to persons with low-vision
16:13:00 <AWK> either Shawn's way or the "full fig caption" way the info is in there
16:13:08 <Erich> +1 alt text valuable for low-vision
16:13:45 <AWK> Example of page with user-defined colors - black background and white text with headings in green, yellow, and blue
16:14:06 <AWK> fig nine background should say that it is dark brown instead of black
16:14:23 <shawn> ACTION: Shawn & all add "alt" issue to Open Issues - people with low vision sometimes need alt text, too
16:14:23 <trackbot> Created ACTION-36 - & all add "alt" issue to open issues - people with low vision sometimes need alt text, too [on Shawn Henry - due 2016-03-02].
16:14:38 <Erich> Jim: Perhaps this is another example where we also include richer descriptions
16:16:38 <Erich> Shawn: do we feel for figures 8 - 10 that the figure captions provide sufficient information that we need to get across, for now?\
16:16:48 <Erich> +1 for now
16:17:16 <jeanne> +1 for now
16:17:30 <allanj> +1 for fig captions for 8-10
16:17:48 <Erich> Jon: +1 for now
16:19:27 <Erich> AWK: suggests erasing h1, h2, h3 that is included parenthetically, as it is a side issue to text contrast
16:20:13 <Erich> Jim: if AWK can do so using tool mentioned, okay
16:22:18 <Erich> Shawn: do we not need to call out the different color text in section concerning contrast?\
16:22:23 <allanj> Fig. 8 Example of author-defined low contrast with light background and gray text and different colored headings
16:22:45 <allanj> Fig. 8 Example of author-defined page that is low contrast with light background and gray text and different colored headings
16:23:00 <Erich> Jon: use of different colors seems significant, even if we don't need to know specifically what color
16:23:08 <shawn> Fig. 10 Example of user style with high contrast with black background and white text and different color headings
16:24:02 <Erich> Shawn: should the alt just say 'screen capture'?
16:24:16 <allanj> +1
16:24:20 <Erich> Jim: thinks that would be fine
16:24:26 <Erich> +1
16:24:51 <AWK> images are edited and uploaded
16:25:00 <AWK> (for fig 9 and 10)
16:25:21 <Erich> Jim: Review of Figure 11
16:25:47 <Erich> ....11, 12, 13
16:26:44 <jeanne> +1 to number of dots
16:28:55 <allanj> q+ need to describe Fig 11 with same level, so folks have something to compare descriptions
16:29:22 <Erich> AWK: would suggest going a bit heavy with descriptions, as things can easily be overlooked\
16:29:50 <allanj> ack need
16:29:50 <Zakim> need, you wanted to describe Fig 11 with same level, so folks have something to compare descriptions
16:31:08 <Erich> Jim: need to add more robust descriptions in 10, 11 and 12
16:31:53 <Erich> Shawn: Summary and Detail could help weightiness
16:32:20 <Erich> Jon: Bulleted list could help make more digestable on later drafts
16:32:44 <Erich> Jim: Review of Figure 14
16:35:32 <Erich> Shawn: is it okay to have one fig caption for the two images
16:37:56 <Erich> Jim: Group seems ok with Figure 14
16:41:54 <Erich> Jon: pointing out wide images included in some of the figures
16:42:17 <Erich> zakim, generate minutes
16:42:17 <Zakim> I don't understand 'generate minutes', Erich
16:42:35 <Erich> trackbot, close meeting
16:42:35 <trackbot> Sorry, Erich, I don't understand 'trackbot, close meeting'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:42:44 <Erich> trackbot, end meeting
16:42:44 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:42:44 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been shawn, jeanne, Jim, Erich, JohnR, jon_avila, AWK
16:42:52 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:42:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/24-lvtf-minutes.html trackbot
16:42:53 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:42:53 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/24-lvtf-actions.rdf :
16:42:53 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Shawn & all add "alt" issue to Open Issues - people with low vision sometimes need alt text, too [1]
16:42:53 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2016/02/24-lvtf-irc#T16-14-23