13:57:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dwbp
13:57:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/19-dwbp-irc
13:57:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
13:57:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dwbp
13:57:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
13:57:42 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:57:43 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:57:43 <trackbot> Date: 19 February 2016
13:57:49 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:00:05 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley has joined #dwbp
14:00:17 <PWinstanley> present+ PWinstanley
14:00:30 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #dwbp
14:00:34 <Caroline_> Present+ Caroline_
14:00:49 <deirdrelee> trackbot, start meeting
14:00:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
14:00:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
14:00:54 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:00:54 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
14:00:55 <trackbot> Date: 19 February 2016
14:01:08 <annette_g> present+ annette_g
14:02:26 <BernadetteLoscio> BernadetteLoscio has joined #dwbp
14:03:38 <deirdrelee> present+ deirdrelee
14:04:14 <PWinstanley> +1 to the idea of reporting on the joint meeting
14:04:23 <phila> present+ phila
14:04:29 <phila> deirdrelee: Agenda bashing
14:04:35 <antoine> antoine has joined #dwbp
14:04:42 <antoine> present+ antoine
14:04:42 <phila> scribe: phila
14:04:46 <phila> scribeNick: phila
14:05:00 <laufer> laufer has joined #dwbp
14:05:11 <deirdrelee> PROPOSED: Approved last week's minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/02/12-dwbp-minutes
14:05:22 <deirdrelee> s/approved/approve
14:05:25 <laufer> present+ laufer
14:05:32 <annette_g> +1
14:05:33 <Caroline_> +1
14:05:36 <deirdrelee> +1
14:05:40 <deirdrelee> chair: deirdrelee
14:05:42 <phila> +1
14:05:46 <PWinstanley> +1
14:05:48 <antoine> +0 (was not here)
14:05:55 <laufer> please, could anybody print the link wo webex?
14:05:58 <laufer> +1
14:06:10 <deirdrelee> RESOLVED: Approve last week's minutes https://www.w3.org/2016/02/12-dwbp-minutes
14:06:16 <BernadetteLoscio> present +BernadetteLoscio
14:06:22 <riccardoAlbertoni_> riccardoAlbertoni_ has joined #DWBP
14:06:25 <BernadetteLoscio> present+ BernadetteLoscio
14:06:36 <deirdrelee> Webex: https://mit.webex.com/mit/j.php?MTID=m0642b1c7ce49018a07ffec17ea136ae6
14:07:03 <deirdrelee> topic: SDW Call
14:07:37 <laufer> thank you deirdre
14:07:38 <deirdrelee> q?
14:08:03 <phila> Caroline_: recapped on the call with SDW on 17/2
14:08:19 <phila> ... They're using our work but of course are more focussed on spatial
14:08:39 <laufer> q+
14:08:41 <riccardoAlbertoni_> present+ RiccardoAlbertoni
14:08:46 <phila> ... Some new issues were raised as a result, especially around the API BP.
14:08:49 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:08:55 <phila> ack l
14:08:55 <deirdrelee> ack laufer
14:09:05 <phila> laufer: I have raised an issue about APIs...
14:09:06 <laufer> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/242
14:09:11 <phila> issue-242
14:09:11 <trackbot> issue-242 -- APIs on the Web (for publishing Data on the Web) Best Practices -- raised
14:09:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/242
14:09:41 <phila> laufer: From the coversdation, I have a worry about how we are doing things.
14:10:03 <phila> ... We have a thing about the data, and anotehr about how it will be publsihed. This sounds like 2 audiences, one is developers
14:10:26 <phila> ... So my issue is that as well as data on the Web, we are now publishing BPs for developing APIs.
14:10:33 <deirdrelee> q?
14:11:04 <phila> laufer: They talk about osme operations that would be nice to have in this API and so we're starting to define a profile for APIs and I don't think that's in our scope
14:11:05 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:11:38 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I agree that we shouldn't provide a lot of detail about how to develope APIs, but it is in our scope to sat that APIs are one of the possible ways to acess data, That's why they're in the doc under data access.
14:11:51 <phila> ... So yes, we should discuss how deep to go in this BP.
14:12:12 <phila> ... I was thinking that in our doc, we have more general guidelines that groups in more specialist domains can take further
14:12:17 <annette_g> q+
14:12:30 <annette_g> q-
14:12:37 <phila> deirdrelee: How was the call overall?
14:12:44 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:13:32 <antoine> phila: it was a very useful discussion
14:13:39 <antoine> ... they'd like to repeat wednesday
14:13:45 <antoine> q+
14:14:37 <phila> phila: Gives general overview - v +ve. They want to repeat it this week.
14:14:45 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: GOod call from the POV of the editors
14:14:58 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:15:10 <phila> ... After the meeting, I was left thinkinbg that it's not entirely clear what we should propose as a general subject.
14:15:25 <phila> ... They were asking whether we were going to provide guidelines about data precision or not
14:15:31 <phila> q+ to talk about precision
14:15:36 <deirdrelee> q?
14:15:41 <hadleybeeman> Present+ hadleybeeman
14:15:52 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: So maybe we should make it clear how other groups can build on what we've done.
14:15:54 <antoine> Issues about precision and granularity after the discussion: http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/240 http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/241
14:15:58 <phila> ack antoine
14:16:16 <laufer> +1 to the idea of extending for specific domains
14:16:18 <phila> antoine: Something that was discussed - there was some useful input for BPs on vocabularies
14:16:26 <phila> ack p
14:16:26 <Zakim> phila, you wanted to talk about precision
14:19:30 <annette_g> q+
14:19:30 <phila> phila: Went on about precision and accuracy
14:19:48 <deirdrelee>  ack annette_g
14:19:49 <phila> ... many decimals when they're not warranted.
14:20:12 <yaso> yaso has joined #dwbp
14:20:18 <phila> annette_g: The accuracy/precision issue is one we come up against. We do have data that is that accurate and precise. We can't say don't be more accurate
14:20:35 <phila> ... But we might consider saying that the precision should be consistent with the accuracy of the measurememt
14:20:45 <phila> ... But how much of this is relevant to data on the Web?
14:20:51 <deirdrelee> q?
14:20:54 <phila> ... I;m not sure whether we need to addrress it in our doc
14:21:01 <phila> s/I;m/I'm/g
14:21:43 <phila> PWinstanley: Almost as a rebuttal - when you're talking about BPs, if you don't mention some things that may be motherhood and applie pie, people may say it's irrelevant.
14:22:02 <annette_g> q+
14:22:03 <deirdrelee> q?
14:22:24 <phila> ... It's a broad brush doc with a W3C hallmark. We may not want to go on about it, but a pointer to something about accuracy nad precision/quality is a good thing to include I'd say. Put it on the radar for anyone new to the area
14:22:34 <deirdrelee> ack ann
14:22:42 <hadleybeeman> +1 for addressing that in data quality
14:22:47 <phila> annette_g: I can think of putting that into the data quality vocab, reporting the precision etc.
14:22:59 <phila> ... We're in danger of putting in everything.
14:23:08 <deirdrelee> q?
14:23:10 <phila> PWinstanley: So yes, I agree, put it in DQV if it's not there already
14:23:38 <phila> deirdrelee: If sopmeone wants to suggest a spedcific place to put it in gthe BP doc and/or the DQV?#
14:23:57 <phila> phila: I did raise it as an issue, it will return
14:24:07 <phila> Topic: API BPs
14:24:08 <annette_g> I would also say that the folks that I work with don't generally need reminding how to use numbers correctly.
14:24:36 <phila> deirdrelee: We wanted to reserve some time for the DQV today - so if you have something, we'll include that.
14:24:47 <phila> ...But BernadetteLoscio - what shall we discuss around APIs?
14:25:01 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160219
14:25:26 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: In the current version of the doc, Annette said we had some changes in the BP after we resolved to publish?
14:25:37 <phila> ... So which ones do we need to look at?
14:25:46 <deirdrelee> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#dataAccess
14:25:48 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: We need to have an agreement on the set of BPs that we have now.
14:25:58 <phila> ... We currently have 7 BPs on data access
14:26:05 <phila> ... and 3 or 4 on APIs
14:26:21 <phila> ... So for me the section is a little confused, and we still don't have consensus in the WG.
14:26:21 <deirdrelee> q?
14:26:22 <annette_g> q+
14:26:26 <phila> ... Don't know how to proceed.
14:26:28 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
14:26:41 <BernadetteLoscio> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#dataAccess
14:26:42 <Caroline_> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#dataAccess
14:26:57 <phila> annette_g: This section... http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#dataAccess  I was going to suggest that it would be better if BPs were more gathered together on this.
14:27:02 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: BP10
14:27:21 <BernadetteLoscio> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#provideVersioningInfo
14:27:31 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: Shouold be about versioning of APIs
14:27:34 <hadleybeeman> q+ to talk about (at some point) device APIs, browser APIs and language confusion
14:27:43 <deirdrelee> Data Access BPs: Best Practice 20: Provide bulk download Best Practice 21: Use Web Standardized Interfaces Best Practice 22: Serving data and resources with different formats Best Practice 23: Provide real-time access Best Practice 24: Provide data up to date Best Practice 25: Document your API Best Practice 26: Use an API
14:27:55 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I'm not sure why this one is here...
14:28:04 <phila> annette_g: versioning is not only about APIs
14:28:12 <deirdrelee> q?
14:28:13 <laufer> q+
14:28:25 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: We have BP8 on data versions, 9 on version history, and then the one on API versioning
14:28:39 <hadleybeeman> q later
14:28:41 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: So maybe this is weird. Not sure why this BP is here.
14:28:44 <hadleybeeman> q+ later
14:28:52 <phila> ack l
14:29:00 <deirdrelee> ack hadleybeeman
14:29:00 <Zakim> hadleybeeman, you wanted to talk about (at some point) device APIs, browser APIs and language confusion
14:29:21 <phila> laufer: This is what I was talking about. We have 3 Bps for APIs
14:29:57 <phila> ... BP25 says document your API. So we're talking about metadata for APIs, so it's an instance of our document for documenting our document
14:30:13 <annette_g> q+
14:30:18 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:30:38 <phila> laufer: BP10 is about versioning APIs, it's similar to versioning data. I think we have a lot of things to say about APIs. My worry is that we'll try and cover too much.
14:30:48 <deirdrelee> q+ to say APIs are really key to data on the web..
14:30:48 <phila> q- later hadleybeeman
14:30:54 <phila> q- hadleybeeman later
14:31:03 <phila> q+ hadleybeeman
14:31:22 <BernadetteLoscio> BP about APIs: Best Practice 10: Avoid Breaking Changes to Your API, Communicate Changes to Developers, Best Practice 25: Document your API Best and Practice 26: Use an API
14:31:26 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
14:32:01 <phila> annette_g: I wanted to touch on the mention of API documentation as just anotehr kind of metadata that we need to do. I'd say it's different as an API needs infor for a user to know what to do
14:32:25 <phila> annette_g: So there's this extra info that's needed about the calls you need to make. That's not metadata, tjat's info about the API's behaviour
14:32:26 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:32:58 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: I was taking a look in the doc. We have 3 Bps 10, 25 and 26 about APIs. Versioning, documentation and generic "use an API"
14:33:13 <annette_g> there are four: 10, 21, 25, 26
14:33:18 <phila> ... So first we need to decide whether or not we agree with these Bps, and then move to the issue of subsetting data.
14:33:24 <annette_g> q+
14:33:50 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: So decision one - are those BPs right, if not, should we add new ones.
14:33:50 <deirdrelee> ack deirdrelee
14:33:50 <Zakim> deirdrelee, you wanted to say APIs are really key to data on the web..
14:34:06 <laufer> +1 to annete to...
14:34:07 <phila> deirdrelee: I agree with what Annette was saying. It's different from data about a dataset.
14:34:36 <phila> ... Years ago we were talking about decribing a dataset and a vocab and they're basically the same. An API is different, so yes, an API is different from a SPARQL endpoint
14:35:01 <phila> ... What you need for SPARQL is the URI nad the data structure. For a restful API you need the call details.
14:35:05 <laufer> I was just comparing that we have to give information abou data and information about apis...  including the info about datqa that is returned by the api
14:35:10 <deirdrelee> q?
14:35:14 <laufer> q+
14:35:14 <phila> ... They're important and need their own BPs in their own right, I'd say
14:35:26 <phila> ack annette_g
14:35:27 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
14:35:35 <hadleybeeman> q- later
14:35:41 <phila> annette_g: /me yay!
14:35:49 <phila> ack laufer
14:35:49 <deirdrelee> ack laufer
14:36:15 <phila> laufer: I agree... it's data about the API, which could include the structure of hte data that is returned, how it is called. That's not metadata.
14:36:38 <BernadetteLoscio> other one: Best Practice 21: Use Web Standardized Interfaces
14:37:15 <phila> laufer:  But we need just one ref to APIs in our doc, whichis to use APIs. We could have - USe an API, and say that it needs to be documented, take care of versioning etc.
14:37:25 <phila> ... I don't think we have to split it into different BPs
14:37:29 <annette_g> q+
14:37:41 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
14:37:42 <phila> ack annette_g
14:38:02 <phila> annette_g: NThe point about APIs being aimed at a different audience - it's important that we do address that partof our audience.
14:38:10 <phila> ... developers work on behalf of publishers
14:38:26 <deirdrelee> q?
14:38:35 <phila> ... Developers are a big part of our audience.
14:39:19 <phila> ... The discussions we've had with Erik W are really only being addressed through that discussion. I'm anxious to try and get together with him and talk more about that. He said he was glad that we're talking about augmenting that.
14:39:36 <phila> ... I don't think his concerns will be addressed if we reduce the BPs.
14:39:46 <phila> deirdrelee: So we need to make a decision.
14:39:58 <phila> ... We could merge the BPs or keep them separate
14:40:08 <annette_g> I have an idea for scoping this
14:40:09 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:40:12 <annette_g> q+
14:41:02 <annette_g> +100 to Phila
14:41:22 <phila> deirdrelee: I'm hearinf laufer in favour of merghing, Annette not
14:41:24 <laufer> I do not disagree on the phil, but I think it will be a extensive section and we do not have to that...
14:41:27 <hadleybeeman> q- later
14:41:30 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:42:02 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: Just to say that before we vote, it would be nice if we try to do something first. I'm not sure ... I think it's a good idea gto merge, as Laufer says, but it might be confused.
14:42:20 <phila> ... So maybe we can try to reorganise and show what it would be like. And then maybe vote next week
14:42:31 <deirdrelee> ack annette_g
14:42:34 <phila> ... Difficult to vote and then act in the abstract.
14:43:11 <phila> annette_g: There's a lot of stuff written about publishing a good API. Can we find the gap in documentation between how to do rest, what APIs are etc.
14:43:19 <phila> ... What do people need to know that they're not already getting
14:43:37 <phila> ... WE should probably avoid publishing info on stuff for which there is already a lot.
14:43:41 <riccardoAlbertoni_> About DQV, we have issue-231 but i have notice that the discussion is continuing in via email and people that are involved in the email discussion are not in the call so I do not know if it make sense to discuss it or continue by email
14:43:47 <phila> deirdrelee: I'd like to close the topic off.
14:44:09 <laufer> I think that talking about Best Practices of APIs is talk about how to do q good interface for an application and I do not think it is a trivial thing...
14:44:17 <phila> ... Our Zagreb meeting is only a month away. Between now and next friday, can we get some concrete suggestions, merging, moving etc.
14:44:31 <phila> ... And then we can vote next week
14:44:38 <phila> ... So that's to the editors
14:44:40 <phila> +1
14:44:44 <annette_g> I didn't answer Berna's question, either
14:44:51 <phila> ack hadleybeeman
14:45:14 <phila> hadleybeeman: This caused a lot of trouble on the TAG. WE have a lot of definitions of APIs. Everyone assumes we talk about the same thing. But they're not
14:45:59 <phila> ... JS/browser APIs, then device APIs, and then data APIs, rest over HTTP. I'd like to plead to the editors to be clear what kind of APIs we're talking about.
14:46:08 <BernadetteLoscio> thanks Hadley ;)
14:46:10 <phila> phila: Thanks Hadley, that's v helpful
14:46:14 <annette_g> q+
14:46:23 <phila> ack annette_g
14:46:40 <riccardoAlbertoni_> q+
14:47:19 <phila> annette_g: We started with Berna asking which ones I disagree with. I don't disagree with any of them. BP21, the change that I was suggesting wasn't in there, it just a matter of putting in a line return. It's been that way for a while.
14:48:13 <phila> annette_g: I want to improve the distinction between a hypermedia API that is HATEOS rest and one that isn't.
14:48:15 <BernadetteLoscio> q+
14:48:34 <phila> ... Right now those 2 approaches are tangled up with heach other and need untangling.
14:48:38 <deirdrelee> ack BernadetteLoscio
14:48:48 <phila> BernadetteLoscio: Can you rewrite that part, please Annette?
14:48:57 <phila> annette_g: That's what I was hoping to do with Erik.
14:49:05 <phila> Topic: DQV
14:49:05 <deirdrelee> ack riccardoAlbertoni_
14:49:33 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni_: This mornign we discussed terminology... referring to the value resulting from a measure as a measure as a measurement
14:49:52 <deirdrelee> q?
14:50:09 <antoine> question at is at http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-dwbp-wg/2016Feb/0056.html
14:50:18 <phila> ... The result of the process of a measurement - is that a measure or a measurement.
14:50:34 <phila> phila: Would say measurement, but would defer to annette_g
14:50:37 <deirdrelee> +1
14:50:39 <PWinstanley> I don't see a classification of APIs, but https://ffeathers.wordpress.com/2014/02/16/api-types/ is helpful
14:50:44 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni_: So we'll rename quality measure to measurement
14:50:57 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni_: I don't know if it's fair to close issue 231
14:51:04 <phila> issue-231
14:51:04 <trackbot> issue-231 -- metric, hasMetric, something else -- open
14:51:04 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/231
14:51:14 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni_: What do you think Antoine?
14:51:25 <deirdrelee> q+
14:51:29 <deirdrelee> q-
14:51:30 <phila> deirdrelee: I'd send an e-mail and if no objections, close it
14:51:31 <antoine> we can close it next time?
14:51:59 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni_: There are some technical Qs. Jeremy isn't here, so not sure if we can discuss that here.
14:52:26 <phila> ... Most of the dicussion now is pretty technical, about modelling etc. The people discussing that are not usually on the calls, so how can we close them.
14:52:33 <phila> riccardoAlbertoni_: we can voite by e-mail?
14:53:12 <phila> deirdrelee: Can we facilitate people being on a call at a different time if needs be? Would that help? Or is e-mail sufficient?
14:54:21 <phila> phila: Decision by e-mail is fine as long as it is recorded
14:54:25 <laufer> q+
14:54:28 <phila> Topic: Zagreb
14:54:36 <deirdrelee> ack laufer
14:55:00 <laufer> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html
14:55:06 <phila> laufer: Today was the date for BP review, is it postponed?
14:55:25 <BernadetteLoscio> thanks Laufer!
14:55:33 <phila> deirdrelee: Yep. This week was a little up in the air. Good news - you get another week. Next week's agenda will be going through that
14:55:46 <PWinstanley> early apologies for next week:  ICEGOV 2016
14:56:01 <phila> https://www.w3.org/2013/share-psi/wiki/Zagreb/social
14:57:09 <BernadetteLoscio> yes!
14:57:30 <BernadetteLoscio> thanks Deirdre!
14:57:42 <BernadetteLoscio> Happy Birthday Phil!!!
14:57:57 <hadleybeeman> Yes, happy birthday Phila!
14:58:14 <laufer> wow... long happy life, phil!!
14:58:14 <Caroline_> Happy Birthday phila!! :)
14:58:15 <annette_g> Happy birthday, Phil, you magnificent person!
14:58:27 <riccardoAlbertoni_> buon compleanno!
14:58:33 <annette_g> <(8^)
14:58:40 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:58:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/19-dwbp-minutes.html phila
14:58:50 <laufer> bye all... nice weekend...
14:59:17 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
14:59:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/19-dwbp-minutes.html phila
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