13:00:17 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 13:00:17 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-wot-td-irc 13:02:09 Sebastian has joined #wot-td 13:02:47 dape has joined #wot-td 13:03:21 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch 13:03:29 present+ Kaz_Ashimura 13:03:30 toru has joined #wot-td 13:04:04 mkovatsc has joined #wot-td 13:04:06 dsr has joined #wot-td 13:04:24 dromasca has joined #wot-td 13:04:26 Darko_Anicic has joined #wot-td 13:05:03 [ Dave_Raggett, Dan_Romascanu, Daniel_Peintner, Darko_Anicic, Katsuyoshi_Naka, Matthias_Kovatsch, Michael_Koster, Pablo_Ccori, Toru_Kawaguchi, Yingying_Chen ] 13:05:20 michael has joined #wot-td 13:06:17 OK 13:07:05 michael: ok 13:07:07 present+ Dave_Raggett 13:07:25 present+ Yingying_Chen 13:07:53 present+ Dan Romascanu 13:07:57 2 topics today 13:08:08 present+ Darko_Anicic 13:08:12 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-wot-ig/2016Feb/0054.html 13:08:34 s/2 topics/Sebastian: 2 topics/ 13:08:56 Landscape update and TD review from plugtest 13:09:07 Dave: add late binding concept 13:09:16 and integrity constraints 13:10:05 s/Landscape/... Landscape/ 13:11:14 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/master/TF-TD/Technology%20Landscape/TechLandscape.md TD tech landscape 13:11:32 Sebastian: Shares screen, Landscape is complete but for one entry 13:11:45 [ Dave_Raggett, Dan_Romascanu, Daniel_Peintner, Darko_Anicic, Katsuyoshi_Naka, Matthias_Kovatsch, Michael_Koster, Pablo_Ccori, Toru_Kawaguchi, Yingying_Chen, Johannes_Hund ] 13:11:57 Victor has joined #wot-td 13:12:30 Johannes shows the main Tech Landscape HTML page 13:12:51 -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/landscape.html main tech landscape 13:12:59 Johannes: can convert .md to HTML and add 13:15:16 Sebastian: will integrate the TD landscape into the HTML - make a links to the detailed cros-TF 13:16:05 i/add late binding concept/topic: Status tech landscape/ 13:16:09 Sebastian: Next will update the CP web page with the current TD status 13:16:26 i/Next will update/topic: Update of the TD content/ 13:16:31 rrsagent, make log public 13:16:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:16:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:18:06 Sebastian presents Graphic illustration of TD 13:18:38 with 6 aspects of TD 13:21:04 Current practices will be updated with this description 13:21:05 https://github.com/w3c/wot/tree/master/current-practices 13:22:05 -> http://w3c.github.io/wot/current-practices/wot-practices.html current practices (github.io) 13:22:30 Metadata, Context, Commmunication, Security, Data Type, Thing Interaction 13:23:01 DAve: add dependencies between things, version management 13:23:16 Dave: discovery + provisioning 13:23:31 Dave, also depende on purpose of the diagram 13:23:57 s/DAve:/Dave:/ 13:23:58 Sebastian: This is high level not meant to be detailed 13:24:07 s/Dave, /Dave: / 13:24:13 q+ 13:24:44 Dave shares screen 13:25:16 Dave shows "W3C view of horizontal metadata" with 3 broad categories 13:25:44 Things, Security, Comms 13:26:17 Dave relinquishes screen 13:26:59 Sebastian: Data type is added 13:27:31 Kaz: What about time and state information? 13:28:16 Sebastian: ayes, can add this also location, FW version, etc.. 13:28:48 s/ayes/yes 13:28:59 -> https://www.w3.org/TR/emma20/ fyi, EMMA 2.0 spec 13:29:44 Kaz: maybe ?? could be added 13:29:57 Kaz: metadata 13:30:20 pabloccori has joined #wot-td 13:30:46 MMI? 13:31:11 s/??/EMMA data format/ 13:31:47 Sebastian: TD tutorial 13:31:48 s/MMI?/can talk with the MMI WG guys this week, wait for the update of the document, and add some information to the main landscape HTML next week/ 13:33:01 Sebastian: Discussing new vocabulary for linking security resources 13:33:51 s/linking secirity resources/ linking resources and security/ 13:34:30 Sebastian: redirection server points to a URI that may change frequently 13:34:45 q+ 13:34:55 This in in the BCP document 13:35:10 ack kaz 13:35:12 ack dsr 13:35:14 s/Sebastian: yes,/Sebastian: yes, time and state should be included in the metadata part./ 13:35:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:35:21 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:35:30 Dave: early binding, late binding of data models 13:36:03 Dave: Things have properties, events, and actions 13:36:38 Dave: these may be bound early when object is constructed or late binding at runtime 13:37:15 Dave: also long running actions, would be natural for these to return a "thing" that enables interaction with the running action 13:37:32 Dave: this is enabled by late binding 13:38:07 Dave: URI can point to instance, or class, or a late bound instance of the property 13:38:31 Sebastian: this could use the link "href" to bind 13:39:10 Dave: name could be bound to URI< or an explicit URI or could be a "promise" term to be resolved later 13:39:25 s/URI Dave: an example is a long running action like turning on a dishwasher 13:40:20 Dave: or result could be one of a set of things but you don't know the specific 13:40:51 Dave: for a long running action you know to expect a result but don't know the result 13:41:43 Matthias: concept is very similar to HATEOAS, follow a link and return a "future" which represents a future result like a promise 13:42:23 q+ 13:42:27 Dave: well known concept around for decades, need some new types to represent the future or resolution of the promise 13:42:53 Matthias: This is the same problem as in deferred discovery 13:43:34 Matthias: you know a result will be available but need a placeholder until the value representation is ready 13:44:18 Darko: dynamically typed languages don't need to know the type on resolution 13:44:45 Dave: still may need to know the class of thing that was returned 13:46:03 Matthias: you need to resolve the details of the response in the deferred response but need to know the general class earlier 13:46:34 Dave: allows expressivity in defining a thing by reference 13:46:47 s/defining/describing/ 13:48:21 q? 13:48:28 Johannes: could compose descriptions dynamically based on layered capabilities like on/off and light control 13:48:56 Matthias: this is all part of TD, can use for generic templates and for detailed instance information 13:49:03 ack kaz 13:49:57 Kaz: Agrees but late binding is a feature of the TD processor, TD could have classes that define the early information 13:50:22 we need to be able to describe no knowledge, partial knowledge and full knowledge for the data model and instance 13:50:31 Darko: THis is like duck typing (if it quacks like a duck...) 13:50:43 s/THis/this/ 13:51:10 Dave: Integrity constraints 13:51:35 Dave: looking at IEC standards with integrity constraints for data models 13:52:08 can use loose constraints like "how long is a piece of string", very flexible 13:52:38 Dave: we may want to consider this for robustness and resilience, what if data are internally inconsistent? 13:53:01 Dave: you can detect an eror and throw an exception to the higher level 13:53:24 Sebastian: Also getting a request at the F2F to define this 13:53:34 s/getting/got/ 13:54:04 Dave: in the survey we can look at current practice and past 13:55:46 Sebasitan: Could put it into the BCP document or keep as a workgroup item 13:56:00 DAve: follow programming language practice 13:56:09 s/DAve/Dave/ 13:56:24 Dave: should at least study and recommend 13:57:24 Dave: need to coordinate with TF-AP 13:59:11 Sebastian: Group review of the TD overview to be added to the BCP document, is this OK with the group? 13:59:53 Sebastian will upload to the web site for review 14:01:36 Sebastian: showing TD tutorial, what is missing is security, communication metadata, etc. should be added to the tutorial 14:02:49 Darko: could we merge Metadata and Context Extensibility aspects? 14:03:07 Sebastian: this is for adding ontologies like SSN 14:03:36 Dave: could talk about "semantic interoperability" in addition to data type 14:04:16 Dave: people will okk for this topic 14:04:23 s/okk/look/ 14:05:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:05:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:05:27 Sebastian: Other topics? 14:05:52 Dave: centralized or distributed TD, e.g. DHT, Blockchain 14:06:40 Dave: When metadata are dereferenced, where does it go? 14:06:56 Johannes: see the question as separate from URI question 14:07:56 Johannes: more related to whether we specify centralized or distributed 14:08:22 Dave: should cover both possibilities 14:09:33 Dave: not sure where it should go 14:09:49 Johannes: Telehash presentation coming up soon 14:10:11 (Telehash is DHT with blockchain) 14:10:32 Dave: keep aware of emerging ideas 14:10:57 Sebastian: it's a question of efficient discovery also 14:11:05 (TF-DI) 14:13:03 Matthias: DHT for more than just discovery? 14:13:32 Darko: also used for messaging and encrypted decentralized comm 14:13:54 Dave: also relates to security re; oneM2M discussion 14:14:06 s/re;/re:/ 14:14:16 rrsagent, set logs public 14:14:57 Sebastian: AOB? 14:15:22 Sebastian: will update the BCP and send out for review 14:15:56 Sebastian: Adjourned 14:16:03 rrsagent, make minutes 14:16:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-wot-td-minutes.html dsr 14:17:08 Meeting: WoT IG - TF-TD 14:17:13 Chair: Sebastian 14:17:51 present: Dave_Raggett, Dan_Romascanu, Daniel_Peintner, Darko_Anicic, Katsuyoshi_Naka, Matthias_Kovatsch, Michael_Koster, Pablo_Ccori, Toru_Kawaguchi, Yingying_Chen, Johannes_Hund 14:17:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:17:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:18:32 rrsagent, stop