19:53:34 RRSAgent has joined #sdw 19:53:34 logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-sdw-irc 19:53:36 RRSAgent, make logs world 19:53:36 Zakim has joined #sdw 19:53:38 Zakim, this will be SDW 19:53:38 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 19:53:39 Meeting: Spatial Data on the Web Working Group Teleconference 19:53:39 Date: 17 February 2016 19:54:03 Hello Newton - welocme 19:54:12 RRSAgent, make logs public 19:54:22 agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160217 19:54:28 present+ kerry 19:55:49 rachel has joined #sdw 19:55:59 present+ eparsons 19:56:00 AndreaPerego has joined #sdw 19:56:24 same here. 19:56:33 try again I have only just connected to webex 19:57:13 robin has joined #sdw 19:57:19 present+ robin 19:57:45 Regrets: Clemens,Andreas, Lewis, Lars 19:57:53 OK let me see... 19:57:56 Caroline has joined #sdw 19:58:46 hello Caroline 19:59:00 webex seems to be OK noew ? 19:59:12 ScottSimmons has joined #sdw 19:59:15 BernadetteLoscio has joined #sdw 19:59:38 present+ ScottSimmons 19:59:41 RaulGarciaCastro has joined #sdw 20:00:08 laufer has joined #sdw 20:00:10 ah OK the password in wrong - will change topic 20:00:20 phila has joined #sdw 20:00:33 topic: Password is v4qtEh56 20:00:34 antoine has joined #sdw 20:00:58 present+ antoine 20:00:59 frans has joined #sdw 20:01:07 Linda has joined #sdw 20:01:21 present+ rachel 20:01:23 present+ RaulGarciaCastro 20:01:54 kerry has changed the topic to: password is v4qtEh56 20:01:58 present+ BernadetteLoscio 20:02:02 present+ frans 20:02:10 present+ AndreaPerego 20:02:10 present+ laufer 20:02:19 joshlieberman has joined #sdw 20:02:31 Present+ Caroline 20:02:49 jtandy has joined #sdw 20:03:01 present+ jtandy 20:03:38 Present+ Linda 20:03:53 +joshlieberman 20:05:03 scribe: Kerry 20:05:14 SimonCox_ has joined #sdw 20:05:32 scribeNick: Kerry 20:05:42 present+ newton 20:05:49 MattPerry has joined #sdw 20:06:25 Topic : Approve last week's minutes 20:06:41 http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes 20:06:48 Proposed : Approve last week's minutes 20:06:50 present+ SimonCox 20:06:54 +1 20:06:56 +1 20:06:56 +1 20:06:57 +1 20:06:58 _1 20:06:58 +1 20:07:01 +1 20:07:06 +1 20:07:11 +1 20:07:16 Resolved : Approve last week's minutes 20:07:19 resolved: approve last week minutes http://www.w3.org/2016/02/03-sdw-minutes 20:07:24 KJanowicz_ has joined #sdw 20:07:25 present+ MattPerry 20:07:41 ChrisLittle has joined #sdw 20:07:46 Topic : Patent Call 20:07:54 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call 20:08:00 present+ ChrisLittle 20:08:23 no comments 20:08:30 Topic : Short update on F2F Meeting last week 20:08:53 geonovum hosted, thankyou Linda and genovum 20:09:02 ... lots of work on deliverables 20:09:30 .... key takeaway is that we have much more territory moving forward 20:10:04 ...weekly calls will focus on a differnt deliverable each week, multiple calls each week, all together maybe only alternate weeks 20:10:14 ... discussed at f2f 20:10:33 ...will pin down next week 20:10:49 ...geonovum meeting was productive 20:10:53 And thanks to everyone who made the time and effort to attend! (AMersfoorth) 20:10:59 Topic : Coordination with DWBP 20:11:06 ... anything esle must b said? 20:11:13 BernadetteLoscio has joined #sdw 20:11:27 s/esle/else/ 20:11:28 ed: welcome to DWBP 20:11:37 s/must b said/must be said/ 20:11:38 ... we will steal whatever content we can! 20:11:41 we are happy to join this call :) 20:11:44 q+ 20:11:50 phila_ has joined #sdw 20:12:14 .... will hand over to Jeremy and linda, our best practice editors... we want to be coordinated 20:12:29 ack next 20:13:11 ChrisLittle: i want to point out that we discuss things that seem out of scope e.g. time as they are in scope for us (not just spatial) 20:13:27 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-sdw-wg/2016Feb/0060.html 20:14:00 jtandy: thankyou to dwbp for joining us; it is a great document now; tremendous job 20:14:22 here..here ! 20:14:48 ... our focus is more specific to dwbp, but we need to provide stuff that is additional for spatial data 20:14:59 ... we will build on your work... 20:15:35 ...the first thing "homework" was how DWBP is referencing spatail data and if they are done well 20:16:03 ... e.g dubious use of rdf propert to reference a spatail concept 20:16:20 ...but bp 2 6 8 9 are all using dct: spatail now 20:16:26 ...has changed very recently 20:16:35 S/spatail/spatial 20:16:36 s/spatail/spatial/ 20:16:51 dct:spatial ; 20:16:52 :) 20:17:28 ... is dct:spatial ok? I think so, what about others? 20:17:30 q+ 20:17:32 +1 ok to me 20:17:33 q+ 20:17:37 ack next 20:18:07 phila_: it was dcterms: description I was worried about, not dct:spatial 20:18:26 ack next 20:18:36 jtandy: the only dcterms:descriptions are ... [missed] nothing spatial 20:18:51 [dct:description "CSV distribution of the bus timetable dataset of MyCity."] 20:18:54 BernadetteLoscio: pleasure to be here 20:19:28 BernadetteLoscio: wanting to describe discovery metadata, temporal and spatial data about the dataset 20:19:37 ...but you are interested in the data itself? 20:19:39 discovery is not actually mentioned in the BP is it? 20:19:47 RaulGarciaCastro has joined #sdw 20:20:06 jtandy: correct -- largeley the structured spatail data but also the descriptions for discovery 20:20:12 Also interested in the spatial data that is used as metadata for other datasets... 20:20:23 ... your spatail descriptions of dataset look good to me 20:20:34 .... one BP I will raise 20:20:36 s/spatail/spatial/ 20:20:37 rrsagent, draft minutes 20:20:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-sdw-minutes.html eparsons 20:20:42 s/spatail/spatial/g 20:20:47 ..BP16 use of standardised terms 20:20:48 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#MetadataStandardized 20:20:56 is http://www.geonames.org/3399415 an instance of dcterms:location? 20:21:10 "The Open Geospatial Consortium (OGC) could define the notion of granularity for geospatial datasets, while [DCAT] vocabulary provides a vocabulary reusing the same notion applied to catalogs on the Web." 20:21:59 i agree! 20:22:03 +1 to jtandy on that 20:22:05 q+ 20:22:06 +1 20:22:08 ... not a statement about spatial but it looks odd referring to OGC this way, may not be useful to say a sdo should do more work 20:22:09 ack next 20:22:14 ... comments? 20:22:33 +1 to Jeremy on OGC comment 20:23:05 antoine: i was involved in this, will try to track history, would say you are right 20:23:18 OK if I raise an action in DWBP for you on that antoine? 20:23:45 jtandy: that BP refers to use of standardised terms -- if we could find a codelist that does this would be good but not clear now 20:23:56 I read it as an example: a domain standards organisation can provide definitions for domain concepts 20:24:00 antoine: is there one at the OGC? 20:24:07 jtandy: anyone know? 20:24:17 is granularity different from resolution? 20:24:25 ...is there a vocab or codelist for granularity of geospatial data sets? 20:24:33 q+ 20:24:40 joshlieberman: is an iso19115 thing 20:24:41 I would say that temporal / spatial resolution is a specific type of granularity. 20:24:58 Agreed 20:25:00 SimonCox_: level of detail is in citygml may be related 20:25:11 ack next 20:25:11 I do not think that those terms do yet exist 20:25:12 I have seen LoD elsewhere in OGC documents too. 20:25:19 jtandy: these codelists happen in lots of places 20:25:46 BernadetteLoscio: I agree this needs to change, maybe present examples of codelists? 20:26:19 jtandy: we could find an example of data refs a controoled vocab 20:26:22 None I'm aware of. 20:26:26 ...anyone got one? 20:26:28 yes 20:26:33 ok! thanks! 20:26:35 See e.g., R2R 20:26:36 ...[silence] 20:26:51 KJanowicz_: [cannot hear] 20:26:56 units! 20:27:17 There's QUDT for units of measurement... 20:27:32 KJanowicz_: ... very common use of codelists is observational data of mathematical [?] I can supply 20:27:36 Any chance of a URL in the IRC pls KJanowicz_ ? 20:27:54 jtandy: codelist for instruments -- is it published by a recognised authority? 20:28:01 QUDT (Quantities, Units, Dimensions and Data Types Ontologies): http://www.qudt.org/ 20:28:04 http://schema.geolink.org/voc/index.html 20:28:09 KJanowicz_: yes -- i will provide the example 20:28:13 ok! thanks! 20:28:27 q+ 20:28:29 Just as one examplel: http://schema.geolink.org/1.0/voc/nvs/L05.html#d4e575 20:28:35 jtandy: DWBP please let us know if this is not what you need 20:28:47 Granularity may be problematic since it is unclear that there is a single definition of spatial granularity, let alone a code list or metric. 20:28:51 ack next 20:28:54 jtandy: now wnat to show some of our BPs 20:29:03 s/wnat/want 20:29:04 s/wnat/want/ 20:29:08 The source is: vocab.nerc.ac.uk 20:29:22 q+ to talk about normative and all that 20:29:32 q+ 20:29:45 antoine: : content looks ok but is the authority really there? Is it a NASA official thing? or just a project result? 20:29:57 ack KJanowicz_ 20:30:23 KJanowicz_: it is authoritative [not sure] 20:31:04 SimonCox_: there are multiple groups in NASA doing units -- qudt may not be the only one from NASA 20:31:10 q+ 20:31:18 ack phila 20:31:18 phila, you wanted to talk about normative and all that 20:31:24 antoine: looing at second link it looks good 20:31:41 s/looing/looking/ 20:32:01 phila: difference between 2 groups: dwbp is rec track so hiher bar for references -- could ask Lewis to take a look for us 20:32:04 adam leadbetter 20:32:45 ...could look into stability, would need director approval to link to either, the NERC one looks better 20:32:54 ack jtandy 20:33:04 ...as long as we are not making a normative statement it could be ok -- omnly guidance 20:33:10 s/omnly/only/ 20:33:17 measuremen-types are a common example for shared codelists, e.g., for NitrateConcentration. another example are instrument types. Those codelists are used by large communities in data repositories such as R2R,BMO-DCO,... 20:33:27 s/hiher/higher/ 20:33:35 jtandy: asks simon about international rock types referenced by geosciml 20:34:03 present+ phila 20:34:13 yes, rare turn up for a weds ! 20:34:16 SimonCox_: custodianship is geoscience australia asking australian national data service, not yet stable 20:35:04 SimonCox_: content is stable but publication platform may not be 20:35:16 See http://resource.geosciml.org/classifier/ics/ischart/ for example 20:35:28 What about the inspire codelists? 20:35:28 rachel: I am on the working group for this -- is authoritative 20:36:16 jtandy: dwbp and sdw neet tight links on some BPs 20:36:38 ... anybody have an issue here -- BPs of DWBP that we reference? 20:36:39 q+ 20:36:46 ack next 20:37:14 frans: yes, the need for having indications of precision , geo coords are numbers 20:37:34 ..does dwbp have something on precision e.g. significant digits? 20:37:56 jtandy: e.g. we often see 15 dec places where it should be 1 20:38:00 +1 to Frans comment 20:38:31 I don't recall seeing anything on that in DWBP 20:38:39 frans: yes it is wrong and space-consuming -- we see it in coordinates but it could be in other data on the web 20:38:39 This is not specific to spatial data, it is just a wrong way to report on accuracy. 20:38:51 jtandy: not covered in dwbp now 20:38:53 q+ 20:38:55 q+ 20:38:56 Precision and accuracy need to be addressed 20:38:56 ack next 20:39:25 q- 20:39:30 newton: we do not work at this level of the data, we have not identified this requirement 20:39:34 there is a section on data quality, and precision could be included there? 20:39:40 q+ 20:39:42 ...we could work together for a new BP to do this 20:39:43 q+ to make ChrisLittle happy 20:39:51 ack next 20:40:29 jtandy: general problem around numerical data -- beter for dwbp 20:41:04 q+ 20:41:20 antoine: i am wondering where this sits in our products... we are also doing a note on the quality vocab and precision can sit here 20:41:37 ack next 20:41:38 phila, you wanted to make ChrisLittle happy 20:41:38 ..we have not identified such precise requirements 20:41:40 precision can be expressed in metadata, but should be in the data themselves too 20:41:46 -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-dqg.html DQV 20:41:51 q+ 20:42:14 phila: am putting in link to dqv -- t his is the right place, but the people for this are not here now 20:42:30 ...e.g. lawrence livermeore and pacific northwest people 20:42:35 @Antoine, I think precision / accuracy can be indeed in scope of DQV (along with granularity) 20:42:40 ...will raise an issue in dwbp to work on this 20:42:43 s/livermeore/livermore/ 20:43:02 ack next 20:43:10 ... those o ther vocabs also dataset usage will be useful at another time 20:43:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 20:43:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-sdw-minutes.html eparsons 20:43:18 good examples are temperature and currencies 20:43:40 ack next 20:44:04 joshlieberman: say something provocative... granularity 20:44:22 ...bp like "use an api" to enable fine-grained access 20:44:53 s/livermore/Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory/ 20:44:59 ...but only bp is to provide that api data access but wewant finer grained access to data elements 20:45:26 ...is the dwbp thinking fine-grained access is not a big prblem? 20:45:29 s/wewant/we want/ 20:45:50 s/prblem/problem/ 20:46:04 q+ 20:46:08 phila: APIS comes up a lot -- this is not stable in BP doc 20:46:09 ack next 20:46:49 BernadetteLoscio_ has joined #sdw 20:47:00 Caroline: need to work a lot on APIs , is a weakest piece, would someone here like to help? 20:47:15 q+ to ask what the timescales are for resolving the API-related best practices? 20:47:49 ack next 20:47:50 jtandy, you wanted to ask what the timescales are for resolving the API-related best practices? 20:48:12 phila: suggest dwbp asks josh and SDW to review this area -- is 'any API on the web" the good scope? we have a lot of feedback from eric wilde 20:48:15 q+ 20:48:19 ack next 20:48:20 present+ BernadetteLoscio 20:48:25 phila: hoping to fgo to CR end march, ie 4 weeks 20:48:31 s/fgo/go/ 20:48:52 Caroline: putting schedule on irc 20:49:08 ...expect to delay another week 20:49:21 s/end/mid/ 20:49:23 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html 20:49:59 q+ 20:50:01 joshlieberman: question not whther you should use an api, but practice on granularity of data e.g. really small bits like just a latitude alone 20:50:18 s/whther/whether/ 20:50:25 ack next 20:50:27 joshlieberman: we can share this for spatail and temporal 20:50:38 s/spatail/spatial/ 20:50:46 joshlieberman: waht is the minimum granularity that is useful? 20:50:48 q+ 20:51:08 phila: comes up more in sdw than dw -- it might be dw that handles this 20:51:12 ack next 20:51:22 joshlieberman: agree, but all is connencted to everything 20:51:23 q+ to ask about bp26 20:51:54 KJanowicz_: we have to stop triplifying all data--- what should be triples and what not? 20:51:58 ack next 20:51:59 jtandy, you wanted to ask about bp26 20:52:17 rrsagent, draft minutes 20:52:17 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-sdw-minutes.html eparsons 20:52:44 jtandy: bp 26 "use an api"' realtes to our "convenince" apis. we suggest you desing your api for a partiular purpose arounf useful questions 20:52:57 ...we also think APIs can describe what they can give you 20:53:03 s/realtes/relates 20:53:20 s/arounf/around/ 20:53:20 ...we also want an api search function -- give us the right resource about a plce called London 20:53:29 RaulGarciaCastro has joined #sdw 20:53:38 .... these might also be relevant for DW API thinking 20:53:39 q+ 20:53:44 ack next 20:53:47 ...an additional call for APIs topic? 20:53:50 +1 20:53:59 q+ 20:54:18 BernadetteLoscio_: We should come back to this. As said it has been discussed but not stable. 20:54:18 [jtandy is happy to contribute to the further API discussions] 20:54:34 ack next 20:54:39 eparsons: will organise a followup meeting 20:54:53 [and that follow up meeting needs to be _soon_ given their timescales] 20:55:04 action: eparsons to organise followup meeting on APIs with Data on the Web 20:55:04 Created ACTION-146 - Organise followup meeting on apis with data on the web [on Ed Parsons - due 2016-02-24]. 20:55:17 +1 20:55:26 q+ to ask a question about Memento and BP8 20:55:28 ChrisLittle: tilesets need differen levels of granularity -- needs to be teased out 20:55:32 ack next 20:55:33 jtandy, you wanted to ask a question about Memento and BP8 20:55:42 ChrisLittle: [another example scribe missed] 20:56:05 jtandy: versioning BP* makes use of memento 20:56:17 s/BP*/BP8/ 20:56:31 jtandy: waht is adoption of memnto that justifies this? 20:56:49 s/memnto/Memento/ 20:56:53 q+ 20:56:55 [Best Practice 8: versioning information] 20:56:59 ack next 20:57:01 phila: not a should or must -- but many people keen -- uneasy as it may not be adopted much -- may ask for comment on thi specifically 20:57:20 BernadetteLoscio_: we tried to gove 2 examples, one without memnto and one with 20:57:24 s/gove/give/ 20:57:42 s/memnto/Memento/ 20:57:43 BernadetteLoscio_: we can also include other implementation approaches as examples 20:57:54 dct:publisher:transport-agency-mycity 20:57:55 BernadetteLoscio_: was only to show examples 20:58:29 ض+ 20:58:31 jtandy: turtle example had 2 colons without pred and obj -- not well formed turtle, is in a few places 20:59:02 q+ 20:59:17 ack next 20:59:17 q+ to suggest building on the transport example in our examples - with full geometry of routes, live bus locations etc 20:59:29 eparsons: api meeting may be with a subset of DW team 20:59:47 BernadetteLoscio_: identifiers: we should also discuss this as we both have something here 20:59:56 q+ 20:59:59 s/DW team/SDW team/ 21:00:10 zakim, close queue 21:00:10 ok, phila, the speaker queue is closed 21:00:22 jtandy: ok -- running out of time-- next week? after Chris talks about time 21:00:31 ack next 21:00:32 rachel, you wanted to suggest building on the transport example in our examples - with full geometry of routes, live bus locations etc 21:00:36 eparsons: could be next week 21:00:52 we may join again next week :) 21:01:04 rachel: yes, lets make our BPs aligned could build on our transport example, could also match naming 21:01:05 ack next 21:01:10 http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp.html#Conneg 21:01:40 newton: bp 22 conneg, I am involved in this and will work on it tomorrow, please send email jeremy 21:01:41 +1 Rachel 21:01:59 thank you!!! 21:02:08 eparsons: will pick this up next week too 21:02:11 RRSAgent, draft minutes 21:02:11 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-sdw-minutes.html phila 21:02:15 Thank you. Getting the two WGs together was a good idea. 21:02:18 thank you! 21:02:20 Thanks, and bye! 21:02:24 Thank you! Bye 21:02:26 eparsons: will do conneg, apis and chris issues 21:02:26 RRSAgent, draft minutes 21:02:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-sdw-minutes.html phila 21:02:26 bye!! 21:02:28 Bye! 21:02:30 bye... 21:02:32 bye! 21:02:37 bye 21:02:37 rrsagent, draft minutes 21:02:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-sdw-minutes.html kerry 21:02:39 bye! 21:02:40 bye bye 21:02:43 chair: Ed 21:02:46 Bye 21:02:49 RRSAgent, draft minutes 21:02:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-sdw-minutes.html phila 21:02:49 rrsagent, make logs public 21:03:00 bye!! 21:03:21 eparsons: Pls end the meeting in WebEx 21:03:32 wilco 21:03:41 bye 21:03:43 joshlieberman has left #sdw 22:20:53 newton has joined #sdw 23:18:25 newton has joined #sdw 23:30:46 newton has joined #sdw