IRC log of forms on 2016-02-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:49:32 [RRSAgent]
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logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-forms-irc
13:49:34 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
13:49:34 [Zakim]
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13:49:36 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be
13:49:36 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'this will be', trackbot
13:49:37 [trackbot]
Meeting: XForms Users Community Group Teleconference
13:49:37 [trackbot]
Date: 17 February 2016
13:50:17 [Steven_]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0028
13:50:25 [Steven_]
Steven_ has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0028
13:50:35 [Steven_]
Regrets: Mark(possibly)
13:50:39 [Steven_]
Chair: Steven
13:53:10 [alain]
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13:57:21 [ebruchez]
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14:02:33 [Steven]
Present: Steven, Alain, Philip, Erik
14:04:40 [Steven]
Topic: XML Prague and ixml
14:04:40 [Steven]
http://www.cwi.nl/~steven/Talks/2016/02-12-prague/
14:06:57 [Steven]
STeven: I think ixml may turn out to be useful for XForms. There were two people who had implementations at Prague.
14:07:02 [Steven]
s/ST/St/
14:07:28 [Steven]
(Serach for Invisible XML).
14:07:37 [Steven]
s/Sera/Sear/
14:08:22 [Steven]
Steven: There was also a new Saxon
14:08:27 [Steven]
Alain: XSLT in Javascript
14:09:00 [Steven]
Topic: Prefixes: xs vs. xsd
14:09:00 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0021.html
14:09:28 [Steven]
Steven: I think this is fine
14:09:44 [Steven]
ACTION: Erik to change all xsd: to xs:
14:09:44 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2050 - Change all xsd: to xs: [on Erik Bruchez - due 2016-02-24].
14:10:05 [Steven]
Topic: Whitespace processing during recalculate
14:10:05 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0016.html
14:11:17 [Steven]
Steven: What are we going to do about this?
14:11:27 [Steven]
Erik: The incremental issue is interesting
14:12:04 [Steven]
Steven: Yes, it could mean you type a space, and the system immediately removes it
14:13:07 [Steven]
Erik: I agree that it would be bad user experience if the field started shifting around during tying; maybe doing this after moving out of the focus is better
14:14:20 [Steven]
Erik: You mentioned spaces in credit card numbers, and I think it is related.
14:14:30 [Steven]
... I think forms should do more for you not less.
14:17:43 [Steven]
Steven: Alain suggested using datatypes to declare this
14:17:52 [Steven]
Erik: I'm not sure yet what I think of this.
14:18:11 [Steven]
... certainly the expectation of a 'required' field is that it isn't just spaces.
14:18:32 [Steven]
... that really ought to be the default
14:20:10 [Steven]
Alain: If it's a datatype, it is always valdated according to its type, and not whether it is required or not.
14:20:29 [Steven]
... maybe a data type that says spaces only is invalid. But I'm not sure it is an easy problem.
14:22:49 [Steven]
... it is not really about validating, but more like reformatting data according to its type
14:26:08 [Steven]
Erik: The controls could do the work, rather than having it at the model level
14:26:22 [Steven]
... I am not suggesting we adopt the solutions, but we should look at it.
14:26:42 [Steven]
... HTML Forms are terrible in this respect as well.
14:26:53 [Steven]
... It would be good to have a solution though.
14:27:00 [Steven]
Steven: http://books.xmlschemata.org/relaxng/ch19-77319.html
14:27:13 [Steven]
... xsd:token
14:27:30 [Steven]
... that does white space collapsing
14:27:37 [Steven]
... may be a bit more than we want
14:28:17 [Steven]
Erik: Differing XML specs do different things.
14:28:45 [Steven]
... Java soes different things too
14:28:51 [Steven]
s/soes/does/
14:30:18 [Steven]
Steven: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/index.htm
14:31:16 [Steven]
... spaces: http://www.fileformat.info/info/unicode/category/Zs/list.htm
14:32:04 [Steven]
Steven: What should we do with this issue?
14:32:11 [Steven]
Alain: Ask for user feedback
14:32:21 [Steven]
... and a type
14:32:47 [Steven]
Erik: I could see how the type would validate
14:34:10 [Steven]
Steven: So if the string only consisted of spaces, it wouldn't validate?
14:34:17 [Steven]
Alain: Yes.
14:34:42 [Steven]
ACTION: Alain to experiment with a type for non-space string, and report back
14:34:42 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2051 - Experiment with a type for non-space string, and report back [on Alain Couthures - due 2016-02-24].
14:35:07 [Steven]
Topic: xforms-link-exception and scripts
14:35:07 [Steven]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xformsusers/2016Feb/0024.html
14:35:30 [Steven]
Steven: Is this the only remaining exception?
14:35:38 [Steven]
Erik: This and computer-exception
14:35:45 [Steven]
s/computer/compute
14:40:52 [Steven]
Steven: This is two issues 1) should we have the link-exception, and 2) should we have @src on <action>
14:41:07 [Steven]
... I have no strong feelings about @src on <action>
14:41:21 [Steven]
Erik: If that is a shared sentiment, then let's just remove it.
14:42:47 [Steven]
Steven: Any objections?
14:42:50 [Steven]
[None]
14:43:00 [Steven]
ACTION: Erik to remove @src from <action>
14:43:01 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2052 - Remove @src from <action> [on Erik Bruchez - due 2016-02-24].
14:43:40 [Steven]
Steven: Do we want to address the exception issue?
14:43:48 [liam_]
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14:43:53 [Steven]
Erik: I think we can do something about it
14:44:59 [Steven]
... we load the empty instance as it were
14:45:44 [Steven]
Steven: ANd then generate an event rather than an exception?
14:45:48 [Steven]
Erik: Yes
14:45:56 [Steven]
s/AN/An/
14:47:33 [Steven]
Erik: We need to work out what is the data model if there is no instance
14:47:59 [Steven]
Steven: I will give you an action
14:48:15 [Steven]
ACTION: Erik to work out how to replace link-exception
14:48:16 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-2053 - Work out how to replace link-exception [on Erik Bruchez - due 2016-02-24].
14:49:10 [Steven]
Topic: AOB
14:49:33 [Steven]
[None]
14:49:40 [Steven]
[ADJOURN]
14:49:45 [Steven]
rrsagent, make minutes
14:49:45 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/17-forms-minutes.html Steven
15:17:30 [liam_]
thanks!
15:17:40 [liam_]
well, leave meeting and choose "End Meeting"
15:18:02 [liam_]
if you don't get the End Meeting option I'll send you the alternate link for meeting.
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