IRC log of dwbp on 2016-02-05

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:57:38 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #dwbp

13:57:38 [RRSAgent]

logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/05-dwbp-irc

13:57:40 [trackbot]

RRSAgent, make logs 351

13:57:40 [Zakim]

Zakim has joined #dwbp

13:57:42 [trackbot]

Zakim, this will be DWBP

13:57:42 [Zakim]

I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot

13:57:43 [trackbot]

Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference

13:57:43 [trackbot]

Date: 05 February 2016

13:59:30 [PWinstanley]

PWinstanley has joined #dwbp

13:59:47 [PWinstanley]

.present+ PWinstanley

13:59:57 [phila]

present+ phila

14:00:07 [phila]

present+ PWinstanley

14:00:21 [PWinstanley]

password for webex?

14:00:21 [Yaso]

present+ yaso

14:00:37 [Yaso]

is xGbzp445, PWinstanley

14:00:50 [PWinstanley]

:-) thanks

14:00:57 [ericstephan]

ericstephan has joined #dwbp

14:01:00 [Yaso]

no problem :-)

14:01:34 [antoine]

antoine has joined #dwbp

14:01:41 [antoine]

present+ antoine

14:02:24 [newton]

present+ newton

14:02:28 [annette_g]

annette_g has joined #dwbp

14:02:28 [Caroline_]

present+ Caroline_

14:02:30 [ericstephan]

present+ ericstephan

14:02:38 [annette_g]

present+ annette_g

14:03:05 [phila]

Yaso: Any volunteer to scribe this week?

14:03:16 [phila]

scribe: PWinstanley

14:03:41 [annette_g]

*waves back*

14:04:01 [Yaso]

PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes

14:04:06 [annette_g]

Yaso, you are very quiet

14:04:24 [annette_g]

better

14:04:42 [Yaso]

https://www.w3.org/2016/01/29-dwbp-minutes

14:04:56 [RiccardoAlbertoni]

RiccardoAlbertoni has joined #DWBP

14:05:20 [phila]

PROPOSED: Accept https://www.w3.org/2016/01/29-dwbp-minutes

14:05:27 [ericstephan]

it may be your firewall PWinstanley

14:05:29 [annette_g]

+1

14:05:32 [Yaso]

+1

14:05:34 [Caroline_]

+1

14:05:37 [phila]

+1

14:05:42 [ericstephan]

0 (was absent)

14:05:46 [newton]

+1

14:05:54 [PWinstanley_]

PWinstanley_ has joined #dwbp

14:05:59 [PWinstanley_]

present+ PWinstanley

14:06:27 [phila]

RESOLUTION: Accept https://www.w3.org/2016/01/29-dwbp-minutes

14:06:36 [laufer]

laufer has joined #dwbp

14:06:37 [phila]

chair: Yaso

14:06:37 [PWinstanley_]

phila: will start emailing minutes each week

14:06:44 [phila]

Topic: Dataset usage Vocabulary

14:06:45 [PWinstanley_]

Yaso: DUV

14:07:05 [Yaso]

http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html

14:07:10 [phila]

-> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv latest published version

14:07:24 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#DataIdentifiers

14:07:36 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#feedbacksection

14:07:57 [laufer]

present+ laufer

14:08:01 [deirdrelee]

deirdrelee has joined #dwbp

14:08:07 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: We haven't made links between DUV and the best practices

14:08:11 [hadleybeeman]

Present+ hadleybeeman

14:08:28 [PWinstanley_]

...in the glossary there is mention of a citation, but we don't describe a reference

14:08:29 [RiccardoAlbertoni]

Present+ RiccardoAlbertoni

14:08:37 [Yaso]

q?

14:08:54 [PWinstanley_]

...separation of these is important and needs to be done

14:08:59 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv/

14:09:34 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: we have been very busy the past 2 weeks trying to get comments (comments from Robin haven't been respinded to yet)

14:09:51 [newton]

s/respinded/responded/

14:09:52 [PWinstanley_]

.... tryint to write in a collaboration journal

14:10:08 [newton]

s/tryint/trying/

14:10:09 [PWinstanley_]

....opportunity to present a poster too

14:10:13 [deirdrelee]

present+ deirdrelee

14:10:21 [PWinstanley_]

...these are good opportunities to publicise the DUV

14:10:26 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/235

14:10:36 [PWinstanley_]

...Bernadette will be publishing it at meetings too

14:10:46 [phila]

-> https://www.force11.org/article/force2016-april-17-19-2016 FORCE 11 Event, April - DUV has a poster session

14:10:50 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/234

14:11:01 [PWinstanley_]

...issue 235, a note back to the editors to make sure we are finding the right namespaces

14:11:24 [phila]

I'm planning to offer help with Issue-235

14:11:49 [phila]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160205

14:11:59 [PWinstanley_]

.... JP had questions about the role of the usage tool. We are going to be routing ideas through to communities that have an interest in usage vocabularies

14:12:02 [Yaso]

q?

14:12:08 [PWinstanley_]

...questions on 235?

14:12:27 [phila]

issue-234?

14:12:27 [trackbot]

issue-234 -- Role of Usage Tool -- open

14:12:27 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/234

14:12:32 [phila]

issue-235

14:12:32 [trackbot]

issue-235 -- Namespaces in DUV -- open

14:12:32 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/235

14:13:24 [PWinstanley_]

phila: I am offereing to help (235 - namespaces) . when I was getting doc ready for publication I needed to look through but was careful not to tidy up what I found. However, probably not this month

14:13:30 [Yaso]

q?

14:13:35 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/236

14:13:44 [Yaso]

issue-236

14:13:44 [trackbot]

issue-236 -- agentClassification, usageClassification, skos:Concept -- open

14:13:44 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/236

14:13:58 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: 236 was more a general question abobut SKOS and usage classification.

14:14:07 [Yaso]

ericstephan: almost can't hear you

14:14:19 [ericstephan]

I have bad reception

14:14:38 [Caroline_]

it is better now! :)

14:15:36 [Yaso]

q?

14:15:36 [antoine]

q+

14:15:42 [PWinstanley_]

... 236 - JP had some concerns about the use of SKO Concept. The rationale was to be able to describe something beyond what was described for e.g. a Person (including type of Person etc)

14:16:29 [Yaso]

q?

14:16:35 [PWinstanley_]

phila: the org ontonlogy has concepts of classification and purpose. I worry about type of person, we all fulfill multiple roles and ascribing a type to a person might be problematic

14:16:56 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: we did have a usage role but were pushed into the FOAF corner.

14:17:05 [Yaso]

q?

14:17:46 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: I have reservation about introducing new properties. It is the design principle I don't like.

14:18:09 [PWinstanley_]

...if there was a way to reuse from other vocabs I think that would be better

14:18:28 [PWinstanley_]

...we could recommend using vocabs from another namespace

14:18:46 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: sounds like a pattern of recommendation rather than formal inclusion

14:18:49 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: yes

14:19:14 [antoine]

q+

14:19:19 [Yaso]

ack antoine

14:19:24 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: it sounds like we are trying to address corner cases, and that might be confusing to people. In order to be inclusive we could show patterns

14:19:55 [phila]

+1 to limiting the scope

14:20:00 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: it is a matter of determing core usage vs occasional use where the authoratative version lies elsewhere

14:20:21 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: there could be an appendix to address these things

14:20:31 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/237

14:20:46 [PWinstanley_]

...237: there was a question about the use of a term that we found for feedback.

14:21:50 [Yaso]

q?

14:22:04 [PWinstanley_]

...we found this class (recommended from a social networking vocab) and inserted this into the model. JP's concern is that this introduces another obscure concept to the model.. So, do we just creata a DUV term rather than importing only one term from this other vocab

14:22:10 [annette_g]

+1 for keeping the number of referred vocabs lower

14:22:17 [PWinstanley_]

phila: if it is just one term then minting is OK

14:22:20 [hadleybeeman]

q+

14:22:20 [antoine]

q+

14:22:42 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: we can put a comment to refer it to the other

14:22:49 [Yaso]

ack hadleybeeman

14:23:05 [PWinstanley_]

hadleybeeman: +1 to phil's comment. the fewer references to other normative standards the better,

14:23:19 [PWinstanley_]

...for the sake of stability caution is better here

14:23:22 [Yaso]

ack antoine

14:23:28 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: I agree

14:23:47 [Yaso]

q?

14:24:14 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: do we need a vote?

14:24:19 [phila]

close issue-237

14:24:19 [trackbot]

Closed issue-237.

14:24:20 [PWinstanley_]

Yaso: no, it's OK

14:25:00 [antoine]

q+

14:25:10 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: I think there might be an opportunity to write some notes about vocab reuse in builfding the DUV - some best practice notes illustrating how to reuse vocabularies

14:25:26 [PWinstanley_]

...I think it is an interesting journy we are on

14:25:38 [Yaso]

akc antoine

14:25:45 [Yaso]

ack antoine

14:26:31 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: I am involved in other groups keen on identify these guidelines, so we don't want too many developing BPs. This though might be brought into this work

14:27:07 [antoine]

s/this work/our own Best Practices

14:27:09 [Yaso]

q?

14:27:14 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: I would like that - to document things and show the evolution of the vocabulary. I think it is something many go through when building vocabs

14:27:22 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: can an action be recorded

14:27:50 [phila]

action: antoine to work with eric S on writing section on evolution of DUV wrt reuse of namespaces etc.

14:27:50 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-227 - Work with eric s on writing section on evolution of duv wrt reuse of namespaces etc. [on Antoine Isaac - due 2016-02-12].

14:28:03 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/238

14:28:07 [Yaso]

tks phila!

14:28:19 [phila]

issue-238

14:28:19 [trackbot]

issue-238 -- Should some of our properties be sub properties of a parent property? -- open

14:28:19 [trackbot]

http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/238

14:29:09 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: 238 - Carlos (not on the call) - in some cases we decided that instead of having 2 domains for dataset and distribution we break out the properties

14:29:13 [ericstephan]

https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv/#Vocab_Overview

14:30:04 [PWinstanley_]

...looking at the centre of the model I think that this concern about properties we have broken out - are they subproperties, or not

14:30:04 [laufer]

q+

14:30:09 [phila]

ack l

14:30:10 [Yaso]

ack laufer

14:30:59 [PWinstanley_]

laufer: in the way that was defined before, we have a conjunction of 2 domains. when someone defines a property there will be a distribution defined at the same time as a dataset.

14:31:55 [PWinstanley_]

...the solution implemneted was 2 properties, each with one domain. but we need another so that the vocabulary can describe things that are not dcat:dataset or dcat:distribution

14:32:17 [laufer]

I can hear

14:32:50 [phila]

q+

14:32:56 [phila]

acl p

14:32:58 [Yaso]

ack phila

14:32:59 [laufer]

I think thta we have different definitions of dataset

14:33:15 [laufer]

data cube, for example... or a datacube slice...

14:33:48 [PWinstanley_]

phila: while Laufer is writing, I understood him to ask if we need to put domain and range restrictions everywhere. This ties people down to using the vocab in a narrowly specified way

14:34:00 [laufer]

so, it will be interesting to have these propertises, like refersTo, with no ranges, for example

14:34:07 [ericstephan]

I would prefer a simpler view with no domains or ranges

14:34:14 [laufer]

so duv could be reused...

14:34:19 [Yaso]

q?

14:34:22 [antoine]

+1

14:34:32 [PWinstanley_]

...where the vocab defines a dataset and a distribution, where it doesn't damage the vocab, I would support Laufer in not referring to domain & range

14:35:16 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: I totally agree with simplifying. I think we were trying to mimic other vocabs that mentioned these things, but I would prefer not to specify domain & range

14:35:18 [laufer]

we can, in our examples, show the use for a dcat dataset or distribution... but others used could be nice too...

14:35:24 [Yaso]

q?

14:35:54 [phila]

PROPOSED: Do not include domains and ranges on properties unless it genuinely adds to the semantics

14:36:01 [laufer]

If duv want to define subproperties for specific uses, I think is ok too...

14:36:13 [PWinstanley_]

Yaso: next item is BP doc, the table of issues

14:36:24 [hadleybeeman]

zakim, who is noisy?

14:36:24 [Zakim]

I am sorry, hadleybeeman; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now

14:36:37 [Caroline_]

+1

14:36:39 [RiccardoAlbertoni]

+1

14:36:41 [Yaso]

+1

14:36:46 [phila]

+1

14:36:46 [PWinstanley_]

+1

14:36:49 [ericstephan]

+1

14:36:52 [laufer]

+1

14:36:56 [phila]

RESOLUTION: Do not include domains and ranges on properties unless it genuinely adds to the semantics

14:36:56 [hadleybeeman]

_1

14:36:57 [newton]

+1

14:37:03 [hadleybeeman]

s/_1/+1

14:37:04 [annette_g]

+1

14:37:13 [Caroline_]

q+

14:37:15 [phila]

Topic: Best Practices, table of issue

14:37:18 [Yaso]

http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html

14:37:23 [PWinstanley_]

Yaso: next agenda item is the table of issues that the editors sent recently

14:37:24 [Yaso]

ack Caroline_

14:37:48 [PWinstanley_]

Caroline_: Newton prepared a table to visualise what needs to be done for each BP

14:37:58 [Caroline_]

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/BP_Plan_for_CR

14:38:22 [PWinstanley_]

...we have prepared target dates as per last call

14:38:33 [PWinstanley_]

...we can allocate work from this

14:38:40 [PWinstanley_]

...so take a look

14:39:23 [phila]

Just to record, looking at the table, I am feeling smug

14:39:28 [PWinstanley_]

...most important thing is to get people assigned

14:40:04 [antoine]

q+

14:40:07 [PWinstanley_]

...some names have been added, but change/add as you think appropriate. There are still some empty places in the allocation

14:40:27 [PWinstanley_]

...we put Feb 19 as a date

14:40:28 [Yaso]

q?

14:40:41 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: put me on 16 & 17

14:40:43 [phila]

-> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html Table of duties

14:41:05 [hadleybeeman]

Ah, thanks phila! I was on the BP_plan_for_CR

14:41:18 [Yaso]

q?

14:41:19 [newton]

q+

14:41:22 [PWinstanley_]

... and a question about 18. JP is there. Is there scope for distinguishing between tentative and confirmed assignments?

14:41:28 [Yaso]

ack newton

14:41:38 [Yaso]

q?

14:41:46 [Yaso]

ack antoine

14:41:58 [PWinstanley_]

newton: we just made some suggestions. if you are ok then we keep

14:42:26 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: but how do we distinguish between proposed and confirmed assignments?

14:42:48 [PWinstanley_]

Caroline_: please can people confirm their assignments

14:42:55 [annette_g]

I'm happy to help where my name shows up

14:42:56 [RiccardoAlbertoni]

let's put in green the people who has confirmed ..

14:43:00 [Yaso]

q?

14:43:20 [phila]

Like annette_g, I'm happy with my assignments

14:43:28 [Yaso]

q+

14:43:34 [ericstephan]

oops I am very delinquent looking at the table...my apologies...I am happy with my assignments

14:43:39 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: I have a quesiton about assignment, did you use the table prepared some weeks ago?

14:43:54 [newton]

https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Call_for_BP_example_contributors

14:44:00 [PWinstanley_]

Caroline_: we created another table - it is easier to see things

14:44:40 [Yaso]

q?

14:45:06 [PWinstanley_]

...newton used the one on the wiki as the basis to make this more detailed version of the table

14:45:23 [PWinstanley_]

...we are focusing on the examples, we used that table as a basis for assignment

14:45:49 [PWinstanley_]

...but things are not fixed - you can choose to work on other things

14:46:23 [Yaso]

q?

14:46:28 [newton]

who is not comfortable to contribute in one specific BP, we can change it...

14:47:10 [RiccardoAlbertoni]

I confirm my contribution in Bp 7

14:47:15 [PWinstanley_]

Caroline_: can people on this call attend to confirming, or altering their assignment

14:47:17 [newton]

thanks RiccardoAlbertoni

14:47:18 [Yaso]

q-

14:47:48 [RiccardoAlbertoni]

yes.. i can

14:48:11 [RiccardoAlbertoni]

whatever i will start

14:48:58 [ericstephan]

q+

14:49:22 [PWinstanley_]

phila: I am happy with the assignments - and unusually I have lots of green on my assignments

14:50:19 [PWinstanley_]

Yaso: Newton sent an email a few days ago - we could use the github assignment

14:50:20 [Caroline_]

q+

14:50:23 [annette_g]

does needs review mean review by editors?

14:50:33 [Yaso]

ack ericstephan

14:51:12 [newton]

@annette_g, not only by the editors, but from the group, because we need to make sure that the tests are deterministics

14:51:20 [PWinstanley_]

ericstephan: I am on the opposite end of the spectrum - lots of red - but am comfortable with my assignments. I think it is OK as it is, but will think about versioning with Phil

14:51:23 [Yaso]

q?

14:51:26 [PWinstanley_]

phila: send me an email

14:51:53 [Yaso]

ack Caroline_

14:51:53 [newton]

@annette_g and the editors could help with who was assigned to the tasks in what is necessary

14:52:07 [annette_g]

yes

14:52:10 [PWinstanley_]

Caroline_: maybe annette could confirm her assignments

14:52:15 [annette_g]

yes

14:52:35 [annette_g]

I think I coul dhelp with versioning

14:52:53 [annette_g]

s/coul d/could /

14:52:54 [PWinstanley_]

I could help with 16 & 17

14:53:37 [laufer]

yes

14:54:01 [newton]

@PWinstanley_ would you like to contribute in another one, this way we can replace the "?" :-)

14:54:03 [laufer]

I think it is ok... my timetable is full...

14:54:26 [PWinstanley_]

ok .... let me know another

14:55:25 [phila]

I can ping Christophe who wrote those BPs

14:55:34 [phila]

He's still reachable

14:55:38 [antoine]

q+ about contributors

14:55:42 [Yaso]

q?

14:56:00 [ericstephan]

bp 6 is pretty easy

14:56:02 [Yaso]

ack antoine

14:56:05 [PWinstanley_]

I will take 28 and 29

14:56:09 [Yaso]

ack about

14:56:10 [ericstephan]

someone should be able to pick that up

14:56:21 [Yaso]

ack contributors

14:56:23 [phila]

q?

14:56:44 [PWinstanley_]

antoine: question about contribution - what has happened to the contributor listing?

14:56:59 [PWinstanley_]

...the previous version had a list of contributors

14:57:22 [PWinstanley_]

Caroline_: there is a coding issue that Phil is sorting out

14:57:48 [PWinstanley_]

...the generation of the first page has a problem that is being resolved in due course

14:58:06 [Yaso]

q?

14:58:18 [phila]

action: phila to fix bpconfig.js to restore contributors to BP doc

14:58:18 [trackbot]

Created ACTION-228 - Fix bpconfig.js to restore contributors to bp doc [on Phil Archer - due 2016-02-12].

14:58:37 [phila]

Good to see such focussed progress!

14:58:43 [newton]

q+

14:58:50 [PWinstanley_]

Yaso: all covered. Thanks for making yourselves available. Editors are available if you need specific help

14:59:02 [Yaso]

Ack newton

14:59:19 [Yaso]

q+

14:59:23 [PWinstanley_]

newton: Do we need to create actions for each piece of work?

14:59:33 [ericstephan]

annette_g are you going to CoDa in Santa Fe March 1-2?

14:59:50 [PWinstanley_]

Yaso: we should perhaps use github. I will send an email.

15:00:00 [annette_g]

@ericstephan, I don't even know what that is

15:00:02 [Caroline_]

q+

15:00:07 [Yaso]

ack yaso

15:00:15 [Yaso]

ack Caroline_

15:00:17 [PWinstanley_]

phila: if we come back to the table every week then we don't need an action

15:00:31 [ericstephan]

annette_g http://www.cvent.com/events/coda-2016-conference-on-data-analysis-2016/event-summary-a11ed42531524891a3ebeb626147a980.aspx

15:00:36 [hadleybeeman]

ack caroline

15:00:54 [PWinstanley_]

Caroline_: next and the following week can we have this on the agenda

15:00:59 [PWinstanley_]

Yaso: no problem

15:01:00 [ericstephan]

It might be an interesting place to talk about some topics

15:01:10 [ericstephan]

data versioning etc

15:01:10 [annette_g]

@ericstephan whoa! maybe...

15:01:12 [phila]

-> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/ZagrebF2F Zagreb F2F

15:01:26 [PWinstanley_]

phila: if you are going to Zagreb fill in the wiki

15:01:40 [ericstephan]

Its really limited in terms of who can go, but would be interesting for you to go

15:01:43 [laufer]

bye all... nice wknd... abraços...

15:01:49 [Yaso]

bye all!

15:01:49 [PWinstanley_]

bye

15:01:55 [RiccardoAlbertoni]

bye .. thanks ..

15:01:59 [phila]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

15:01:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/05-dwbp-minutes.html phila

15:01:59 [annette_g]

@ericstephan are you going?

15:02:07 [ericstephan]

Ywa

15:02:10 [ericstephan]

yes

15:02:27 [phila]

RRSAgent, make logs public

15:02:32 [phila]

RRSAgent, draft minutes

15:02:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/05-dwbp-minutes.html phila

15:02:34 [ericstephan]

There is also the force2016 you might want to check out

15:02:35 [annette_g]

@ericstephan the meeting was ended on us

15:02:48 [ericstephan]

okay will carry on in email

15:03:01 [annette_g]

okay, cool, thanks for the pointers!

15:06:02 [newton]

newton has joined #dwbp

15:50:10 [Yaso]

Yaso has joined #dwbp

15:55:58 [Yaso]

Yaso has joined #dwbp

16:06:38 [Yaso]

Yaso has joined #dwbp

16:11:53 [newton]

newton has joined #dwbp

17:07:52 [newton]

newton has joined #dwbp

17:30:13 [Zakim]

Zakim has left #dwbp

17:41:12 [Yaso]

Yaso has joined #dwbp

17:55:31 [newton]

newton has joined #dwbp

18:04:39 [annette_g]

annette_g has joined #dwbp

19:11:11 [newton]

newton has joined #dwbp

19:15:00 [newton_]

newton_ has joined #dwbp

20:43:44 [newton]

newton has joined #dwbp

21:45:29 [newton]

newton has joined #dwbp