13:57:38 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dwbp
13:57:38 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2016/02/05-dwbp-irc
13:57:40 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs 351
13:57:40 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dwbp
13:57:42 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be DWBP
13:57:42 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
13:57:43 <trackbot> Meeting: Data on the Web Best Practices Working Group Teleconference
13:57:43 <trackbot> Date: 05 February 2016
13:59:30 <PWinstanley> PWinstanley has joined #dwbp
13:59:47 <PWinstanley> .present+ PWinstanley
13:59:57 <phila> present+ phila
14:00:07 <phila> present+ PWinstanley
14:00:21 <PWinstanley> password for webex?
14:00:21 <Yaso> present+ yaso
14:00:37 <Yaso> is xGbzp445, PWinstanley
14:00:50 <PWinstanley> :-) thanks
14:00:57 <ericstephan> ericstephan has joined #dwbp
14:01:00 <Yaso> no problem :-)
14:01:34 <antoine> antoine has joined #dwbp
14:01:41 <antoine> present+ antoine
14:02:24 <newton> present+ newton
14:02:28 <annette_g> annette_g has joined #dwbp
14:02:28 <Caroline_> present+ Caroline_
14:02:30 <ericstephan> present+ ericstephan
14:02:38 <annette_g> present+ annette_g
14:03:05 <phila> Yaso: Any volunteer to scribe this week?
14:03:16 <phila> scribe: PWinstanley
14:03:41 <annette_g> *waves back*
14:04:01 <Yaso> PROPOSED: Accept last week's minutes
14:04:06 <annette_g> Yaso, you are very quiet
14:04:24 <annette_g> better
14:04:42 <Yaso> https://www.w3.org/2016/01/29-dwbp-minutes
14:04:56 <RiccardoAlbertoni> RiccardoAlbertoni has joined #DWBP
14:05:20 <phila> PROPOSED: Accept https://www.w3.org/2016/01/29-dwbp-minutes
14:05:27 <ericstephan> it may be your firewall PWinstanley
14:05:29 <annette_g> +1
14:05:32 <Yaso> +1
14:05:34 <Caroline_> +1
14:05:37 <phila> +1
14:05:42 <ericstephan> 0 (was absent)
14:05:46 <newton> +1
14:05:54 <PWinstanley_> PWinstanley_ has joined #dwbp
14:05:59 <PWinstanley_> present+ PWinstanley
14:06:27 <phila> RESOLUTION: Accept https://www.w3.org/2016/01/29-dwbp-minutes
14:06:36 <laufer> laufer has joined #dwbp
14:06:37 <phila> chair: Yaso
14:06:37 <PWinstanley_> phila: will start emailing minutes each week
14:06:44 <phila> Topic: Dataset usage Vocabulary
14:06:45 <PWinstanley_> Yaso: DUV
14:07:05 <Yaso> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/vocab-du.html
14:07:10 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv latest published version
14:07:24 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#DataIdentifiers
14:07:36 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/TR/dwbp/#feedbacksection
14:07:57 <laufer> present+ laufer
14:08:01 <deirdrelee> deirdrelee has joined #dwbp
14:08:07 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: We haven't made links between DUV and the best practices
14:08:11 <hadleybeeman> Present+ hadleybeeman
14:08:28 <PWinstanley_> ...in the glossary there is mention of a citation, but we don't describe a reference
14:08:29 <RiccardoAlbertoni> Present+ RiccardoAlbertoni
14:08:37 <Yaso> q?
14:08:54 <PWinstanley_> ...separation of these is important and needs to be done
14:08:59 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv/
14:09:34 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: we have been very busy the past 2 weeks trying to get comments (comments from Robin haven't been respinded to yet)
14:09:51 <newton> s/respinded/responded/
14:09:52 <PWinstanley_> .... tryint to write in a collaboration journal
14:10:08 <newton> s/tryint/trying/
14:10:09 <PWinstanley_> ....opportunity to present a poster too
14:10:13 <deirdrelee> present+ deirdrelee
14:10:21 <PWinstanley_> ...these are good opportunities to publicise the DUV
14:10:26 <ericstephan>  https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/235
14:10:36 <PWinstanley_> ...Bernadette will be publishing it at meetings too
14:10:46 <phila> -> https://www.force11.org/article/force2016-april-17-19-2016 FORCE 11 Event, April - DUV has a poster session
14:10:50 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/234
14:11:01 <PWinstanley_> ...issue 235, a note back to the editors to make sure we are finding the right namespaces
14:11:24 <phila> I'm planning to offer help with Issue-235
14:11:49 <phila> agenda: https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20160205
14:11:59 <PWinstanley_> .... JP had questions about the role of the usage tool.  We are going to be routing ideas through to communities that have an interest in usage vocabularies
14:12:02 <Yaso> q?
14:12:08 <PWinstanley_> ...questions on 235?
14:12:27 <phila> issue-234?
14:12:27 <trackbot> issue-234 -- Role of Usage Tool -- open
14:12:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/234
14:12:32 <phila> issue-235
14:12:32 <trackbot> issue-235 -- Namespaces in DUV -- open
14:12:32 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/235
14:13:24 <PWinstanley_> phila: I am offereing to help (235 - namespaces) . when I was getting doc ready for publication I needed to look through but was careful not to tidy up what I found.  However, probably not this month
14:13:30 <Yaso> q?
14:13:35 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/236
14:13:44 <Yaso> issue-236
14:13:44 <trackbot> issue-236 -- agentClassification, usageClassification, skos:Concept -- open
14:13:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/236
14:13:58 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: 236 was more a general question abobut SKOS and usage classification.
14:14:07 <Yaso> ericstephan: almost can't hear you
14:14:19 <ericstephan> I have bad reception
14:14:38 <Caroline_> it is better now! :)
14:15:36 <Yaso> q?
14:15:36 <antoine> q+
14:15:42 <PWinstanley_> ... 236 - JP had some concerns about the use of SKO Concept.  The rationale was to be able to describe something beyond what was described for e.g. a Person (including type of Person etc)
14:16:29 <Yaso> q?
14:16:35 <PWinstanley_> phila: the org ontonlogy has concepts of classification and purpose.  I worry about type of person, we all fulfill multiple roles and ascribing a type to a person might be problematic
14:16:56 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: we did have a usage role but were pushed into the FOAF corner.
14:17:05 <Yaso> q?
14:17:46 <PWinstanley_> antoine: I have reservation about introducing new properties.  It is the design principle I don't like.
14:18:09 <PWinstanley_> ...if there was a way to reuse from other vocabs I think that would be better
14:18:28 <PWinstanley_> ...we could recommend using vocabs from another namespace
14:18:46 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: sounds like a pattern of recommendation rather than formal inclusion
14:18:49 <PWinstanley_> antoine: yes
14:19:14 <antoine> q+
14:19:19 <Yaso> ack antoine
14:19:24 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: it sounds like we are trying to address corner cases, and that might be confusing to people.  In order to be inclusive we could show patterns
14:19:55 <phila> +1 to limiting the scope
14:20:00 <PWinstanley_> antoine: it is a matter of determing core usage vs occasional use where the authoratative version lies elsewhere
14:20:21 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: there could be an appendix to address these things
14:20:31 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/237
14:20:46 <PWinstanley_> ...237: there was a question about the use of a term that we found for feedback.
14:21:50 <Yaso> q?
14:22:04 <PWinstanley_> ...we found this class (recommended from a social networking vocab) and inserted this into the model.  JP's concern is that this introduces another obscure concept to the model.. So, do we just creata a DUV term rather than importing only one term from this other vocab
14:22:10 <annette_g> +1 for keeping the number of referred vocabs lower
14:22:17 <PWinstanley_> phila: if it is just one term then minting is OK
14:22:20 <hadleybeeman> q+
14:22:20 <antoine> q+
14:22:42 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: we can put a comment to refer it to the other
14:22:49 <Yaso> ack hadleybeeman
14:23:05 <PWinstanley_> hadleybeeman: +1 to phil's comment.  the fewer references to other normative standards the better,
14:23:19 <PWinstanley_> ...for the sake of stability caution is better here
14:23:22 <Yaso> ack antoine
14:23:28 <PWinstanley_> antoine: I agree
14:23:47 <Yaso> q?
14:24:14 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: do we need a vote?
14:24:19 <phila> close issue-237
14:24:19 <trackbot> Closed issue-237.
14:24:20 <PWinstanley_> Yaso: no, it's OK
14:25:00 <antoine> q+
14:25:10 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: I think there might be an opportunity to write some notes about vocab reuse in builfding the DUV - some best practice notes illustrating how to reuse vocabularies
14:25:26 <PWinstanley_> ...I think it is an interesting journy we are on
14:25:38 <Yaso> akc antoine
14:25:45 <Yaso> ack antoine
14:26:31 <PWinstanley_> antoine: I am involved in other groups keen on identify these guidelines, so we don't want too many developing BPs.  This though might be brought into this work
14:27:07 <antoine> s/this work/our own Best Practices
14:27:09 <Yaso> q?
14:27:14 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: I would like that - to document things and show the evolution of the vocabulary.  I think it is something many go through when building vocabs
14:27:22 <PWinstanley_> antoine: can an action be recorded
14:27:50 <phila> action: antoine to work with eric S on writing section on evolution of DUV wrt reuse of namespaces etc.
14:27:50 <trackbot> Created ACTION-227 - Work with eric s on writing section on evolution of duv wrt reuse of namespaces etc. [on Antoine Isaac - due 2016-02-12].
14:28:03 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/238
14:28:07 <Yaso> tks phila!
14:28:19 <phila> issue-238
14:28:19 <trackbot> issue-238 -- Should some of our properties be sub properties of a parent property? -- open
14:28:19 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/track/issues/238
14:29:09 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: 238 - Carlos (not on the call)  - in some cases we decided that instead of having 2 domains for dataset and distribution we break out the properties
14:29:13 <ericstephan> https://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-duv/#Vocab_Overview
14:30:04 <PWinstanley_> ...looking at the centre of the model I think that this concern about properties we have broken out - are they subproperties, or not
14:30:04 <laufer> q+
14:30:09 <phila> ack l
14:30:10 <Yaso> ack laufer
14:30:59 <PWinstanley_> laufer: in the way that was defined before, we have a conjunction of 2 domains.  when someone defines a property there will be a distribution defined at the same time as a dataset.
14:31:55 <PWinstanley_> ...the solution implemneted was 2 properties, each with one domain.  but we need another  so that the vocabulary can describe things that are not dcat:dataset or dcat:distribution
14:32:17 <laufer> I can hear
14:32:50 <phila> q+
14:32:56 <phila> acl p
14:32:58 <Yaso> ack phila
14:32:59 <laufer> I think thta we have different definitions of dataset
14:33:15 <laufer> data cube, for example... or a datacube slice...
14:33:48 <PWinstanley_> phila: while Laufer is writing, I understood him to ask if we need to put domain and range restrictions everywhere.  This ties people down to using the vocab in a narrowly specified way
14:34:00 <laufer> so, it will be interesting to have these propertises, like refersTo, with no ranges, for example
14:34:07 <ericstephan> I would prefer a simpler view with no domains or ranges
14:34:14 <laufer> so duv could be reused...
14:34:19 <Yaso> q?
14:34:22 <antoine> +1
14:34:32 <PWinstanley_> ...where the vocab defines a dataset and a distribution, where it doesn't damage the vocab, I would support Laufer in not referring to domain & range
14:35:16 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: I totally agree with simplifying.  I think we were trying to mimic other vocabs that mentioned these things, but I would prefer not to specify domain & range
14:35:18 <laufer> we can, in our examples, show the use for a dcat dataset or distribution... but others used could be nice too...
14:35:24 <Yaso> q?
14:35:54 <phila> PROPOSED: Do not include domains and ranges on properties unless it genuinely adds to the semantics
14:36:01 <laufer> If duv want to define subproperties for specific uses, I think is ok too...
14:36:13 <PWinstanley_> Yaso: next item is BP doc, the table of issues
14:36:24 <hadleybeeman> zakim, who is noisy?
14:36:24 <Zakim> I am sorry, hadleybeeman; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now
14:36:37 <Caroline_> +1
14:36:39 <RiccardoAlbertoni> +1
14:36:41 <Yaso> +1
14:36:46 <phila> +1
14:36:46 <PWinstanley_> +1
14:36:49 <ericstephan> +1
14:36:52 <laufer> +1
14:36:56 <phila> RESOLUTION: Do not include domains and ranges on properties unless it genuinely adds to the semantics
14:36:56 <hadleybeeman> _1
14:36:57 <newton> +1
14:37:03 <hadleybeeman> s/_1/+1
14:37:04 <annette_g> +1
14:37:13 <Caroline_> q+
14:37:15 <phila> Topic: Best Practices, table of issue
14:37:18 <Yaso> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html
14:37:23 <PWinstanley_> Yaso: next agenda item is the table of issues that the editors sent recently
14:37:24 <Yaso> ack Caroline_
14:37:48 <PWinstanley_> Caroline_: Newton prepared a table to visualise what needs to be done for each BP
14:37:58 <Caroline_> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/BP_Plan_for_CR
14:38:22 <PWinstanley_> ...we have prepared target dates as per last call
14:38:33 <PWinstanley_> ...we can allocate work from this
14:38:40 <PWinstanley_> ...so take a look
14:39:23 <phila> Just to record, looking at the table, I am feeling smug
14:39:28 <PWinstanley_> ...most important thing is to get people assigned
14:40:04 <antoine> q+
14:40:07 <PWinstanley_> ...some names have been added, but change/add as you think appropriate.  There are still some empty places in the allocation
14:40:27 <PWinstanley_> ...we put Feb 19 as a date
14:40:28 <Yaso> q?
14:40:41 <PWinstanley_> antoine: put me on 16 & 17
14:40:43 <phila> -> http://w3c.github.io/dwbp/bp-status.html Table of duties
14:41:05 <hadleybeeman> Ah, thanks phila! I was on the BP_plan_for_CR
14:41:18 <Yaso> q?
14:41:19 <newton> q+
14:41:22 <PWinstanley_> ... and a question about 18.  JP is there.  Is there scope for distinguishing between tentative and confirmed assignments?
14:41:28 <Yaso> ack newton
14:41:38 <Yaso> q?
14:41:46 <Yaso> ack antoine
14:41:58 <PWinstanley_> newton: we just made some suggestions.  if you are ok then we keep
14:42:26 <PWinstanley_> antoine: but how do we distinguish between proposed and confirmed assignments?
14:42:48 <PWinstanley_> Caroline_: please can people confirm their assignments
14:42:55 <annette_g> I'm happy to help where my name shows up
14:42:56 <RiccardoAlbertoni> let's put in green the people who has confirmed ..
14:43:00 <Yaso> q?
14:43:20 <phila> Like annette_g, I'm happy with my assignments
14:43:28 <Yaso> q+
14:43:34 <ericstephan> oops I am very delinquent looking at the table...my apologies...I am happy with my assignments
14:43:39 <PWinstanley_> antoine: I have a quesiton about assignment, did you use the table prepared some weeks ago?
14:43:54 <newton> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/Call_for_BP_example_contributors
14:44:00 <PWinstanley_> Caroline_: we created another table - it is easier to see things
14:44:40 <Yaso> q?
14:45:06 <PWinstanley_> ...newton used the one on the wiki as the basis to make this more detailed version of the table
14:45:23 <PWinstanley_> ...we are focusing on the examples, we used that table as a basis for assignment
14:45:49 <PWinstanley_> ...but things are not fixed - you can choose to work on other things
14:46:23 <Yaso> q?
14:46:28 <newton> who is not comfortable to contribute in one specific BP, we can change it...
14:47:10 <RiccardoAlbertoni> I confirm my contribution in Bp 7
14:47:15 <PWinstanley_> Caroline_: can people on this call attend to confirming, or altering their assignment
14:47:17 <newton> thanks RiccardoAlbertoni
14:47:18 <Yaso> q-
14:47:48 <RiccardoAlbertoni> yes.. i can
14:48:11 <RiccardoAlbertoni> whatever i will start
14:48:58 <ericstephan> q+
14:49:22 <PWinstanley_> phila: I am happy with the assignments - and unusually I have lots of green on my assignments
14:50:19 <PWinstanley_> Yaso: Newton sent an email a few days ago - we could use the github assignment
14:50:20 <Caroline_> q+
14:50:23 <annette_g> does needs review mean review by editors?
14:50:33 <Yaso> ack ericstephan
14:51:12 <newton> @annette_g, not only by the editors, but from the group, because we need to make sure that the tests are deterministics
14:51:20 <PWinstanley_> ericstephan: I am on the opposite end of the spectrum - lots of red - but am comfortable with my assignments.  I think it is OK as it is, but will think about versioning with Phil
14:51:23 <Yaso> q?
14:51:26 <PWinstanley_> phila: send me an email
14:51:53 <Yaso> ack Caroline_
14:51:53 <newton> @annette_g and the editors could help with who was assigned to the tasks in what is necessary
14:52:07 <annette_g> yes
14:52:10 <PWinstanley_> Caroline_: maybe annette could confirm her assignments
14:52:15 <annette_g> yes
14:52:35 <annette_g> I think I coul dhelp with versioning
14:52:53 <annette_g> s/coul d/could /
14:52:54 <PWinstanley_> I could help with 16 & 17
14:53:37 <laufer> yes
14:54:01 <newton> @PWinstanley_ would you like to contribute in another one, this way we can replace the "?" :-)
14:54:03 <laufer> I think it is ok...  my timetable is full...
14:54:26 <PWinstanley_> ok .... let me know another
14:55:25 <phila> I can ping Christophe who wrote those BPs
14:55:34 <phila> He's still reachable
14:55:38 <antoine> q+ about contributors
14:55:42 <Yaso> q?
14:56:00 <ericstephan> bp 6 is pretty easy
14:56:02 <Yaso> ack antoine
14:56:05 <PWinstanley_> I will take 28 and 29
14:56:09 <Yaso> ack about
14:56:10 <ericstephan> someone should be able to pick that up
14:56:21 <Yaso> ack contributors
14:56:23 <phila> q?
14:56:44 <PWinstanley_> antoine: question about contribution - what has happened to the contributor listing?
14:56:59 <PWinstanley_> ...the previous version had a list of contributors
14:57:22 <PWinstanley_> Caroline_: there is a coding issue that Phil is sorting out
14:57:48 <PWinstanley_> ...the generation of the first page has a problem that is being resolved in due course
14:58:06 <Yaso> q?
14:58:18 <phila> action: phila to fix bpconfig.js to restore contributors to BP doc
14:58:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-228 - Fix bpconfig.js to restore contributors to bp doc [on Phil Archer - due 2016-02-12].
14:58:37 <phila> Good to see such focussed progress!
14:58:43 <newton> q+
14:58:50 <PWinstanley_> Yaso: all covered.  Thanks for making yourselves available.  Editors are available if you need specific help
14:59:02 <Yaso> Ack newton
14:59:19 <Yaso> q+
14:59:23 <PWinstanley_> newton: Do we need to create actions for each piece of work?
14:59:33 <ericstephan> annette_g are you going to CoDa in Santa Fe March 1-2?
14:59:50 <PWinstanley_> Yaso: we should perhaps use github.  I will send an email.
15:00:00 <annette_g> @ericstephan, I don't even know what that is
15:00:02 <Caroline_> q+
15:00:07 <Yaso> ack yaso
15:00:15 <Yaso> ack Caroline_
15:00:17 <PWinstanley_> phila: if we come back to the table every week then we don't need an action
15:00:31 <ericstephan> annette_g http://www.cvent.com/events/coda-2016-conference-on-data-analysis-2016/event-summary-a11ed42531524891a3ebeb626147a980.aspx
15:00:36 <hadleybeeman> ack caroline
15:00:54 <PWinstanley_> Caroline_: next and the following week can we have this on the agenda
15:00:59 <PWinstanley_> Yaso: no problem
15:01:00 <ericstephan> It might be an interesting place to talk about some topics
15:01:10 <ericstephan> data versioning etc
15:01:10 <annette_g> @ericstephan whoa! maybe...
15:01:12 <phila> -> https://www.w3.org/2013/dwbp/wiki/ZagrebF2F Zagreb F2F
15:01:26 <PWinstanley_> phila: if you are going to Zagreb fill in the wiki
15:01:40 <ericstephan> Its really limited in terms of who can go, but would be interesting for you to go
15:01:43 <laufer> bye all... nice wknd... abraços...
15:01:49 <Yaso> bye all!
15:01:49 <PWinstanley_> bye
15:01:55 <RiccardoAlbertoni> bye .. thanks ..
15:01:59 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:01:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/05-dwbp-minutes.html phila
15:01:59 <annette_g> @ericstephan are you going?
15:02:07 <ericstephan> Ywa
15:02:10 <ericstephan> yes
15:02:27 <phila> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:02:32 <phila> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:02:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2016/02/05-dwbp-minutes.html phila
15:02:34 <ericstephan> There is also the force2016 you might want to check out
15:02:35 <annette_g> @ericstephan the meeting was ended on us
15:02:48 <ericstephan> okay will carry on in email
15:03:01 <annette_g> okay, cool, thanks for the pointers!
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